Unwed Mother

This is really wierd for me. Back home its a non issue. But, we're not back home anymore are we, we're definately not in Kansas.

Quickly: we have a female friend, successful car dealer, mid 30s and has a small coffee shop on the side. She also has a beautiful 9 y-o daughter with hubby. She's not with hubby any more but daughter is. Our friend has a boyfriend who is married. They agreed to have a child (not a leaky-skeiky). He was still married when the baby was born.

Everyone following?

Now when we met her, we knew she was the mistress but not knocked up. My g/f was okay with this. Now that she delivered her new son, she want's to have a party with only her good close friends including us.

The g/f blew a gasket. She starts hollering at me in Chinese. She grabs a dictionary to learn a new word - concubine! I had to run to the other room and supress my laughter. The g/f won't go to the party, everyone there will lose face. (Umm, honey, if we know the situation, I'm sure everyone else does too)

I should not have these kinds of friends, do I have them in Canada? I told the g/f that our friend, since she is financialy successful, she's probably fairly smart. And she's old enough to make her own decisions. I'm not her judge.

I'm going to the party without the g/f. She told our friend she is in Beijing on business

    <<<<<<  This smily just doesn't convey my feelings of WTF!

Uhmm, honey, you've been sharing a bed with a divorced father of two who is old enough to be your father for 2.5 years now. I tried to teach her the stones/glass houses thing to no avail

Your girlfriend sees a big difference between sleeping with someone and choosing to have a child with them.

Can't say as I blame her.

No matter what anybody thinks about the affair, it can be ignored. A private thing. Once she's is knocked up though it can no longer be ignored and her friends lose face as being supportive of this behaviour. Friends of a concubine may also be a concubine. ( Especially a girl with a foreign boyfriend) and to have a party to drag all her friends into this shameful behaviour? Well, that's just rude.

Wise words, Stil.  I know of an affair that took place a couple of years ago.  The guy's wife caught him.  He ended up in deep  with his boss - not for the affair and cheating on his wife, but for getting caught.  If there is the pretense of secrecy, all is ok.  Once it's out in the open, as with your friend having a baby, no one can pretend any longer.

What status does the baby have in Chinese society?

I definitely question the judgement of a woman who intentionally gets pregnant with the child of a married man. I would probably want to distance myself from that sitiation as well. I suppose I see your point DD, but from your girlfriend's perspective, perhaps she orginally felt your friend was making a poor choice but it wasn't irreversible and there was still hope your friend meet a nice available man and leave the cheater. Once there are children involved though this woman is sending a very clear message that she sees this guy as her future. She's publicly declaring herself to be an er-nai and it would seem is proud of it. I can see why your girlfriend wants no part of that.

I believe that there were recent changes to hukou laws which allows the children of unmarried parents to be eligible for hukous, but I'm not 100% positive. It could have been a change that they were talking about making but hadn't actually made yet too.

the cheating guy must have some stamina if he wants two families on the go at the same time 

er lai, "2nd milk". She must have been living under a rock for most of her life to not know this common part of her own Chinese culture.

It's an interesting one which asks if we, with the whole Western it's up to her and everyone's an adult concept, should get involved with. From my dealings with Chinese i would choose not to go. I often hear that Chinese blame people and their friends.

Thanks for the replies.

For Stil: my g/f is willing to have a baby with me even if we don't get married, hence my  

Also it's a bit overboard to say she dragged all her friends into this. Its wasn't a snap decision, these guys had months to mill it over. They chose their friend over tradition

For Dex: I hope no one is going to blame me for the baby  

For TLD: She is in no need for his support, she is quite strong, wealthy and independent. (Yes I secretly have pangs of desire. She's tall and beautiful.) She doesn't expect the guy to leave his wife

For BrandeX: Years ago Western culture had similar habits. At one time in some places a widow had to marry her dead husband's brother blahblahblah. We changed and so is China. Of course she knows this, she made a choice regardless of who approves.




I know many locals will be willing to stone her, but not me. I wasn't upset at my g/f for her not wanting to go. But I was disappoined, I'd have thought she would bite her tongue for my sake. She knows I wouldn't try to change her mind. My g/f wanted me to take pictures so she could see who is attending. Like she might know someone

What an interesting situation and what interesting responses! The lady in question sounds like a person I would like to meet and talk with;there are so many unanswered questions. She sounds courageous,unusual and again I use the word,interesting. Hope you didn't or don't take any photos of the guests. By the way Day Dreamer,I admire your attitude to the situation. Yeah! I know that I don't live in China and that my understanding of the culture is limited to what I read about and to my interactions with the different levels of Asian gamblers at the Casino.

For Stil: my g/f is willing to have a baby with me even if we don't get married, hence my  

Perhaps it's ok to be a concubine of a divorced foreigner, but not ok to be the concubine of a married Chinese???

For Dex: I hope no one is going to blame me for the baby  

I'm sure the correct person to blame for this terrible breach of Chinese morality will be found.  Probably it's a friend from a decadent foreign culture.  I wonder who the prime suspect will be?

For TLD: She is in no need for his support, she is quite strong, wealthy and independent. (Yes I secretly have pangs of desire. She's tall and beautiful.) She doesn't expect the guy to leave his wife

So, your hope is that she'll eventually dump her lover and that you can be his replacement.   


Aren't we all glad that China's long history shows zero sign of previous incidents like this or worse.  Yes, it's over 2000 years of perfect monogamy and faithfulness.

For TLD: She is in no need for his support, she is quite strong, wealthy and independent. (Yes I secretly have pangs of desire. She's tall and beautiful.) She doesn't expect the guy to leave his wife

I don't think I said/assumed that she was needing his financial support. When I said she sees this guy as her future I meant it literally. A baby binds two people together forever. You didn't say she was leaving the guy so I assume that she's planning on keeping him in the picture, not on being a single mom or marrying someone else in the future (not that many Chinese guys would accept an unmarried mother whose child's father was a married man). If she's left the guy then that's kind of a different story, but it sounds like this guy intends on setting up a second family with your friend.

I think regardless of whether she expects the guy to leave his wife it is wrong to be involved with a married guy. Of course it is wrong for the guy to cheat on his wife, period. I can see why your girlfriend and others aren't jumping up and down at the idea is all. I doubt it is about whether or not the woman is married, I'm sure her objection comes from the fact that the guy is married. I can only imagine how horrible the man's wife must feel about all of this. 

I gather people aren't shunning the "father," even though he's equally responsible.

Spot on. The woman's called a concubine, but what nasty name do we call the man?

Spot on. The woman's called a concubine, but what nasty name do we call the man?

Polygamist..?..

Spot on. The woman's called a concubine, but what nasty name do we call the man?
Polygamist..?..

I would call him a rich man.

China is full of situations like this and it is almost normalised. It is a feature of life in places like Shenzhen. I spent the holidays in a 'closed' compound where many of these women (and their children) live in comparative luxury with only the occasional visit from the 'husband'/father. There are, I think, historic reasons for accepting the situation.

Sometime ago in Guangzhou I saw a movie 'The Second Wife.' The first wife had decided that the time had come for her husband to have a second wife.It seemed that at a certain age refined women were no longer interested in matters of the bed and were more interested in devoting their time to needle work etc. It was also seen as way of keeping a man from getting involved in undesirable relationships that could compromise the family.

It was important that the wife chose - it had to be a young girl who would satisfy not only her husbands needs but would also fit into the household.

It seemed like a reasonable solution to me.  I say that because it is only about three generations back that a man in China could have many wives and he got to do the choosing. I think 'Wild Swans' gives a good account of having to deal with that situation.

While China is represented as a modern and progressive society it is also one founded on cultural values and norms of the past that are valued. I guess we are living through a period when there is a working out of any conflict btween these two forces.

I just ripped that response off the top of my head so you are welcome to attack me on any points I have made.   

I just ripped that response off the top of my head so you are welcome to attack me on any points I have made.   

Naughty Xwarrior!  Giving people ideas bad like that.  How could you?

BTW - Anyone catch Raise the Red Lantern with Gong Li as Wife #4?

From what I can tell of Chinese divorce laws, it's pretty much a 50/50 split, no matter what the motive or who did or didn't cheat.  If the man is the primary income earner and managed to hide some assets, a woman from a poor family might put up with any number of things rather than divorce him.