Strange reaction from the girlfriend

I got a little thoughtful. Nothing major, just...random thoughts which are probably normal to have. While chatting on QQ, she asks me what these are.

I think her reaction was pretty normal.

I have a theory that educated people think too much about their situation in life. If I ask my gf what she is thinking about I can guarantee the answer will be, 'Nothing!' I now give the same response and life goes on .

Maybe that is why there are some old homilies still floating about:
- keep your thoughts to yourself
- some things are better left unsaid

None of this is any help to you of course. I can only hope that you find a way to have a good relationship with someone you obviously love.
 
     

Just want to give my 2 cents worth in case it should help.
Communication can be easily misunderstood especially between cultures and also between male and female. I read Men are from Mars and it is very accurate with it's examples so I urge you to just bear this in mind. When men say something often women hear something totally differant. We may speak the same language but men and women's brains are wired differantly.
Also as per other posts, commitment is a big deal for your gf and her culture. I know going back just for her may seem to indicate your commitment but perhaps this has not been understood by her. I am married to a local and almost all our (not frequant) arguements are due to misunderstanding and mis-communication and not real issues.

elzoog, I don't think he should give up music and I never said that. I believe, Just like Mr. Benn pointed out, that music isn't the main point of her worries.

I have no problems with your advice other than your language in doing so. Calling his girlfriend a bitch is unnecessary and rude no matter what you think of her behaviour, especially coming from a stranger.

Basically, I am being like Tom Leykis who I consider really sharp regarding how men should deal with women in western culture (and based on what I am hearing, Chinese culture as well).

If this guy decides to marry this woman, in the context of this video

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=x64cy3Bcr98

he will be like the horse in Central Park with the blinders on an pooping in a bucket.

elzoog

You are new to this forum.  You have been asked to play nice.  Please respect the wishes of the other members who have been here for years. 

You don't have to be 'like' someone else and use that for justification for being rude.

elzoog

You don't have to be 'like' someone else and use that for justification for being rude.

Okay let me put it this way (it's going to achieve the same result anyway).

What you should do is, decide what's important to you and don't let a woman change you into something you don't want to be.

Obviously music is important to you.   As far as why it's important to you, that's none of my business and not really any of her business unless you think it's important for her to understand why. 

After you have a list, sit her down and say X is important to me, Y is important to me, I am willing to compromise on Z but not if it means M, and so forth.  If she is not willing to accept this, then she isn't worth your time.   There are millions of other women out there.   As H.L. Mencken said "Love is the delusion that one woman differs from another".  You are in China and from what I hear, there are millions of Chinese women wanting to meet and marry a western man (I could be wrong). 

I am 46 and still single.   Pretty much most of the married men I meet are miserable in their marriage.  One Korean friend admits to me on many occasions that he doesn't like his wife and that he goes out of his way to meet other women.   Me on the other hand, if it's 7 in the evening and I want to go get Dominoes Pizza, I don't have to ask my wife's permission for that.   If I want to buy a $50 book on the art of fugue writing, I don't have to ask my wife permission for that either.  I don't do these things because I am trying to curb my spending, but this is a decision that I made for myself, not one that was forced on me by someone else.

It is my opinion, that you are expending too much effort on this woman.  The woman you marry should be a woman that accepts you for who you are and helps you be a better man (that doesn't mean, change you into her fantasy man).  From what you wrote in your post, this girl you have all of these strong feelings for doesn't sound like that kind of girl for you.   You will find that out for yourself if you do what I suggest.  Decide what you want and see if she accepts it.

Finding out now that this isn't the girl for you is going to be less painful then finding it out 3 years from now when you have invested a lot more time and energy.  Just like investing $50 in something that is a bad deal is a lot less painless than investing $10,000 in something that is a bad deal.  Ending a girlfriend relationship is a lot less painless than getting a divorce.

I don't think she ever wanted him to give up music, not in the least. Nor do I think that calling her nasty things is merited. Neither do I think a marriage is about freedom and asking permission from the wife to get pizza. Basically, what she heard was this "I am foreign and have no responsibility and like to dilly-dally around and live in a Peter Pan-like bubble" which, of course, was not what he intended to say. Chinese women have, in my experience, a hard time understanding the concept of a hobby. Add to that the general bad reputation that a large host of irresponsible male laowai expatriates have created in China and you will end up with over-the-top reactions like the OP experienced. I find that, with my gf anyway, a calm, rational talk clears things up. Now, obviously, there is the thing that music is a performance art and, quite probably, the lady associates the notion of playing music with bars, drinking, loose women and then the instinctive distrust kicks in. Once she realizes that the OP merely likes to play music, it relaxes him and makes him happy but in no way can harm their relationship and that he is not doing it because he wants to find some bar girl to replace her, all will be fine. Then again, that is just my two cents.

It's obvious that there are enough trust and communications issues present that I'd strongly advise against getting engaged or married.  On the other hand, if those can be worked through, she indeed might be The One for Invictus.

My lovely wife has had her share of unpredictable reactions to things.   If anyone told me to "Dump the b**ch" when we were dating, engaged, or married based on a single QQ conversation that went bad, I'd be more than a little infuriated.

A relationship is about give and take.  If Invictus can't reach common ground with his GF or if she's way too controlling, then maybe he should pull the plug.  On the other hand, this could be a simple misunderstanding that can be easily worked out when discussed more calmly.

I don't think she ever wanted him to give up music, not in the least. Nor do I think that calling her nasty things is merited. Neither do I think a marriage is about freedom and asking permission from the wife to get pizza. Basically, what she heard was this "I am foreign and have no responsibility and like to dilly-dally around and live in a Peter Pan-like bubble" which, of course, was not what he intended to say. Chinese women have, in my experience, a hard time understanding the concept of a hobby. Add to that the general bad reputation that a large host of irresponsible male laowai expatriates have created in China and you will end up with over-the-top reactions like the OP experienced. I find that, with my gf anyway, a calm, rational talk clears things up. Now, obviously, there is the thing that music is a performance art and, quite probably, the lady associates the notion of playing music with bars, drinking, loose women and then the instinctive distrust kicks in. Once she realizes that the OP merely likes to play music, it relaxes him and makes him happy but in no way can harm their relationship and that he is not doing it because he wants to find some bar girl to replace her, all will be fine. Then again, that is just my two cents.

(Hmm thinking that one of the things the guy complained about is the girl didn't sympathize and was impersonal with him when he lost the music on his hard drive)

"Once she realizes that the OP merely likes to play music, it relaxes him and makes him happy but in no way can harm their relationship..."

Okay, I guess you are entitled to your opinion.

It's obvious that there are enough trust and communications issues present that I'd strongly advise against getting engaged or married.  On the other hand, if those can be worked through, she indeed might be The One for Invictus.

My lovely wife has had her share of unpredictable reactions to things.   If anyone told me to "Dump the b**ch" when we were dating, engaged, or married based on a single QQ conversation that went bad, I'd be more than a little infuriated.

Let me make this clear.  I didn't say DTB because she had an unpredictable reaction to something, like for example, she wanted to get chocolate ice cream at the store when she usually gets vanilla, or something like that.

I said DTB because it's obvious the girl doesn't understand what's important to this guy.  Not only that, but she isn't even interested in what's important to him.   She wants him to be her way and anything that isn't her way, she will be impersonal or even hostile towards.

It's okay to have a certain criteria when looking for a spouse.   The sane, mature way to approach that is to find a spouse that already has the criteria you are looking for.   The stupid, immature way is to find someone that tolerates you or that you can tolerate for the moment, that doesn't have these criteria. Then, try to change that person to fit your criteria. 

A relationship is about give and take.  If Invictus can't reach common ground with his GF or if she's way too controlling, then maybe he should pull the plug. 

I am saying she is way too controlling and that he should pull the plug.   

On the other hand, this could be a simple misunderstanding that can be easily worked out when discussed more calmly.

You really think it was a simple misunderstanding on her part?   Really? 

Basically, if this guy moves to the city where this girl lives just to be with her and she gets worse, then he's more stuck.  After all, he's invested more time and energy (i.e. taking the trouble to move to a city) and so he's going to tolerate more crap because he doesn't want to lose his investment.  It's better if he finds out now that the girl isn't for him before he invests more time and energy.  Don't you think?

generally speaking, in addition to the whole Venus and mars thing, Chinese people communicate much more through context than by saying things outright. Their communication is more indirect. This is a problem with cross-cutlural romance.  Sometimes I know that my Chinese friends are trying to tell me something (the alternative, but still plausible, explanation being that they've simply embarked on some strange tangential line of conversation). I have to stop them and tell them, 'I don't understand. Just tell me what you want to say."

The other side of this problem is that sometimes when we're just saying whatever fleeting thought is on our mind, they will listen and analyse it for the hidden meaning. Why is the laowai saying that it's been a bit chilly recently? What is the hidden meaning to this discussion of the weather. Is he saying that he doesn't love me anymore? Oh my God!!!!

So...when my GF is says "MK, you're too fat, don't drink so much beer", what is she really  trying to tell me I wonder?!

I see a lot of people sticking up for the girlfriend but it is a huge red flag to me when anybody, Chinese or Western, man or woman, can be described as having no interests outside of money and material objects. He said quite clearly, she never discusses anything outside of money, brand names, cosmetics, etc. Issues with commitment aside it seems like there are some very real differences in their core values.

Just because an issue is cultural or partially cultural doesn't mean it is any less a deal breaker for some people, and sometimes there are cultural issues that make two people entirely incompatible. Whether it is Chinese of her to be materialistic and shallow or just her personality, it sounds to me that this is not a small problem for the OP.

Elzoog put it in a harsh way at first, but I actually agree with some of his points. This woman not only doesn't share the OP's interests, she's not supportive of them at all, in the slightest. Liking music doesn't make a person a flaky commitment-phobe, that's just ridiculous thinking. And the guy said he wanted to make more friends, not that he wanted to join a rock band or backpack around Thailand for 6 months. If she's wanting a guy who devotes all of his time and resources to providing for her materially and nothing else, well then maybe the OP isn't the guy she's looking for?

I see a lot of people sticking up for the girlfriend but it is a huge red flag to me when anybody, Chinese or Western, man or woman, can be described as having no interests outside of money and material objects. He said quite clearly, she never discusses anything outside of money, brand names, cosmetics, etc. Issues with commitment aside it seems like there are some very real differences in their core values.

I don't know about China, but the reason you see people sticking up for the girl is that in the west, the woman is always considered smart and responsible and the guy is supposed to always defer to the woman's opinion.  The guy is always seen as the rebel that will go after any tail he can get, so he must be reigned in by the woman.

Just because an issue is cultural or partially cultural doesn't mean it is any less a deal breaker for some people, and sometimes there are cultural issues that make two people entirely incompatible. Whether it is Chinese of her to be materialistic and shallow or just her personality, it sounds to me that this is not a small problem for the OP.

I gotta agree with you here.   While material things are important to me (I want to have my relatively clean room, hopefully with reasonable climate control and my food) I don't want being concerned about that to be the only focus in my life.

Elzoog put it in a harsh way at first, but I actually agree with some of his points. This woman not only doesn't share the OP's interests, she's not supportive of them at all, in the slightest. Liking music doesn't make a person a flaky commitment-phobe, that's just ridiculous thinking. And the guy said he wanted to make more friends, not that he wanted to join a rock band or backpack around Thailand for 6 months. If she's wanting a guy who devotes all of his time and resources to providing for her materially and nothing else, well then maybe the OP isn't the guy she's looking for?

Yep!  Right on!   Better the guy realise that now before he spends even more time and energy on her.  It's better he spend time and energy looking for a woman that's okay with him liking music or wanting a few more friends, probably as long as they aren't close female friends.   Or even, close female friends so they can have a threesome!   

This guy is admittedly, going to be down in the dumps when he loses this girl.  If he loses her now, it's going to entail feeling really damn sad for awhile.   If he moves into the same city with her, marries her, then loses her, then it's going to entail feeling really damn sad for a much longer period of time, losing a lot of money, plus a lot of legal hassles.

Invictus,

I mean, any opinions about relationships voiced on the internet require more than a few grains of proverbial salt, but from what you've written it sounds like there's a profound difference in values between the two of you. My experience has been that it's not necessary to share 100% of my interests with my significant other, but it is important to share the same values.

You seem to value creativity, aesthetics, self-improvement, study, etc. Do you think she shares your values, whatever they are? Do you think that you value the same things she does? If no, do you think her values can/will be changed, or are you willing to submit to/accept what she values?

I guess that if I were in your shoes, those are the questions I would ask myself. But then again, and not to be rude, I don't know you and I don't know her. This is just how I would react. (I happen to think that being well-rounded is imperative; I wouldn't be engaged to my fiancee if she didn't hold the same value.)

Don't worry about the coming year in China. Even if you come back here and don't continue the relationship with her, the year is by no means lost as long as you have some sort of concrete takeaways from it (a higher HSK score, a new record, whatever).

I agree with The Local Dialect and I can understand where elzoog is coming from.
Yesterday, my 74yrs old neighbor and a cleaning lady from the shopping centre were having a discussion about the features that they like in a man. My neighbor likes a man with a nice bum  and the cleaning lady liked muscles  and good looks. Both ladies stared at me when I said that a man must meet me in the mind and that I don't care what he looks like. It is a bonus if he has a nice smile and laughing eyes. That is why I would find it hard to be interested in a man who is culturally very different. Having been raised with six brothers, I really do understand that males see things differently and many will tolerate things from a partner, which I would not tolerate. I guess it really comes down to what makes you happy. Just don't forget that life is short and far too valuable to waste with the wrong person.