Hi Everyone,

I know, in modern society, it is crass to talk about making money, and money matters.

But, if we read recent studies by Kahneman, Marty Seligman, Nature Social Science, etc. going from zero income to about $75K a year predictably increases happiness.

In my opinion, no harm done talking about making money, as long as people earn honestly and share. That is at least what I do.

1. Can anyone speak about salaries and making money as English teachers in China?

I once helped research data and write with TopTutorJobs, https://www.toptutorjob.com/city-and-salary

It was turned into a 30 page industry report.

2. As a ballpark figure, $50K USD a year in income is quite a realistic, ballpark figure for a teacher that:

a. Is from a Native-7 country
b. Has a college diploma from a decent school, rather than those for-profit disgraced schools
c. Has a CELTA
d. If they have a US state teachers license or PGCE, all the better
e. If they have a master's degree, all the better
f. Salary increases based on experience, capping off after ten years of full-time professional teaching experience

3. It is funny, as in the US, UK, etc. there are teachers with these aforementioned qualities everywhere you look, just not enough jobs.

In China, it seems almost the opposite. If you have these qualities, teach well, dress well, and really care about being a professional teacher, someone will not be out of work for long.

4. It seems like $50K-$75K a year is the target goal for such professional teachers.

While training centers, private tutoring, etc. gets gutted, being the equivalent to a teacher in the US, UK, Australia is very possible.

5. In my opinion, the real thing is how much someone saves. A teacher that can save $3000-5000 USD a month, month after month, does as well as someone in our home countries who makes $10K a month with higher living costs.

6. I don't know that many teachers in the US, UK, Australia who make over $100K a year. So, it is fair to say China remains a good deal, for those who really value it, and can take all the downsides.

7. Any other opinions on making and saving money?

Initially, I only thought ESL would help tide me over until the Great Recession of 2007-2013 ended. Likewise, I only tried China out for a year, but wanted better paying jobs in tax-free oil countries, or a different career altogether.

Yet, after nearly ten years, this place has grown on me and may be my home for life.

8. For my whole life, I wanted to find more info about personal finance and self-made people, rather than that technical corporate finance they taught in school.

The best site I found was: https://www.financialsamurai.com/

Pay down debt, Vanguard 500 Index funds, some US bonds and real estate seem the best option, even at our modest income levels.

9. Opinions?

Escaped Lunatic,

Thank you very much for the answer.

1. No matter what, I think the CELTA is good for anyone.

Ten years ago, my best friend (a doctor) would think it would be a "wasted cost" to spend the $3000 USD. But, as it turns out, it has opened so many doors.

Even with an Ivy League degree, no job in Saudi Arabia wanted me until I had the CELTA. In China, it seems any native speaker can get a job with a bachelor's degree and CELTA.

So, my friend was very incorrect in her analysis.

The fact that the CELTA may never be phased out also shows it might have a lifetime of value. 30 years of eligibility to work = $100 USD a year cost, made up for in wage increases.

2. I will see what can be done. Maybe it will be impossible for someone who is not from a Native 7 country to get legitimate employment with a legitimate work visa.

How then, is China managing?

I mean, the demand is as high as ever. Several hundred million people still want English teachers than before.

If people cannot work on tourist visas, student visas, be from non-Native countries, and many legitimate teachers are leaving China for personal reasons, how can the English teaching industry go on?

3. At least in my experience, I just see that the core institutions (public schools, quasi-public Guojibus, real international schools) live on as they always have. Training centers rise and fall as quickly as we saw with those "no more New Oriental and Wall Street English" laws, and private tutoring continues as covertly as any country.

Hello Everyone,

Some of my very capable friends have college degrees, and are good teachers.

But, because they have citizenship and passports from outside the 7 native countries, they cannot get jobs. This includes even native speakers like Pakistan, India, etc.

1. Traditionally, many of them just came on a tourist or student visa, and worked from there. We can see that is just not possible anymore.

2. What do you suggest?

a. Get a CELTA, and take any job that can arrange a work visa?
b. Come over on a student visa, then work on the side?
c. Come over on a student visa, say to Beijing Language and Culture University, and prove they can get degrees in Chinese or English studies, and translate that to a job?

Napoleon (2023)

Not as great as some say, but not bad.  The editing looks more than a little choppy - as in someone took an ax and chopped well over an hour out of it.  Ridley Scott is already talking about a 4+ hour long director's cut.

I do think Joaquin Phoenix is a great actor, but someone he just didn't seem to fit the role.  The expression on his face during a large part of the film seemed to convey "Damn this uniform is uncomfortable!" instead of reactions more relevant to the scene.

Historians are (as usual) complaining about the large amounts of poetic license taken by the script.  Then again, Shakespeare's "historical" plays were full of all sorts of factual errors.  I think historians should chill out and advocate for making factual documentaries and reinactments instead of worrying about details in entertainment that was never billed as "the actual true story."

Oh, and one phrase that will mean little until you see the movie.  "The mating call of Napoleon." 

Hi Everyone,

I went to my Chinese bank and wired to maximum of 500 USD to my US Citi account.

Alas, I saw they took 20 USD each time, just to receive money. This is in addition to the Chinese bank conversion and sending fees.

I may have lost up to 10% of the original pay, just to send money.

1. How do you guys send chunks of Chinese RMB to your home bank accounts?

2. In my experience, the best way is to wait until rates are low (say 6.5 RMB to 1 USD). Then, go to a bank and ask Chinese government for permission.

It's slow. But, the efficiency is high.

3. I also know of ways to send a UnionPay debit card to a family member at home. They can withdraw up to 800 USD per day, with a minimum of fees. Then, they simply deposit it into the same bank.

4. Any advice?