Best Opportunities in Shanghai

Hi Guys,

1.  Thanks for all the advice.

2.  Not to sound naive, but does teaching abroad have any benefits?  (i.e. life experience, new culture, etc.).

3.  Will teaching in China help me with any transferable business skills (e.g. learning Mandarin, getting into a good business school, etc.)?

4.  In case I have not made it clear, my passion lies in research.  Nothing excites me more than finding more e=mc^2, or at least sifting apart the ubiquitous  "it depends" answer.  I love educational research, as it may move the profession away from folklore and fads, into a more efficient, evidence-based science.

Thanks for the consideration

Linfen,

I'd be happy to look into these jobs you recommend.  Any specific links or contacts?  (Maybe we could talk over PM).

Ivyman

Teaching abroad has benefits, sure. Learning about and experiencing a new culture, picking up language skills (you won't get this from teaching, but if you want to put effort in to learning you'll certainly be in the perfect environment for it), making new friends, gaining a broader world perspective, all are potential benefits of living abroad, no matter what you do there. Teaching in China is what you make of it. Lots of people can turn a stint in China into a lifetime career. Some people take what they learn in China and branch off into other avenues -- business, consulting, translating, writing, etc. Others will teach 15 hours a week at the local uni and feel like they've got it made. A lot of what you make in China will depend on your own drive, your connections, your skillset, and finally, your funds. You can't really make anything happen business-wise in China without money.

And on that note, no, teaching English in China does not really give you any transferable business skills. You can learn Mandarin without teaching English. In fact, the best way to learn Mandarin is probably not to be a teacher but to come over here as a student. Unless you plan to stay in education, your experience teaching English in China does not really transfer directly to any one field. That doesn't mean there aren't benefits, but the benefits are mostly intangible. You have to really be able to take your experience and mold it into something else, if that's what you want to do, and you really need to have some sort of marketable skill that sets you apart from the crowd.

As an example, I have a friend who started out as an English teacher, moved to a management position at a training school (she got this position because she's very type A, very organized and thorough, and really busted her ass at a job where lots of people are really phoning it in), was able to move to another management position with a large tech company (to make a move from teaching to not teaching you have to be willing to worker harder than anyone else, humble yourself, take a salary that might not even equal what you make teaching, and be very good at self promotion), learned skills on the job at the tech company, moved to another tech company as an operations manager, then was able to get posted back to America with the company that hired her. She's now making close to 6 figures at home, and this started with a job that paid her basically the same amount that I make as a teacher in Beijing. It was no easy task though, and every step of the way she had people who looked down their noses at her for her roots in English teaching. It is much easier, in a sense, to start out not a teacher, and go directly into business, if you have the ability. Using English teaching as a springboard to other things is an uphill climb and it is a climb that most teachers do not succeed at making.

Isn't it true that the Chinese highly respect Ivy League graduates, though? My understanding is that there would be some special internships and conditions available. I also hear that some of the teaching jobs would pay substantially more in consideration of that type of degree.

Ivy,
Don't go to Linfen. It's a notorious shithole. You're being teased.

2.  Not to sound naive, but does teaching abroad have any benefits?  (i.e. life experience, new culture, etc.).

Not really...in fact, it can be a detriment in a future job search. Much depends upon your abilities to spin it to prospective employers. You'd think it would have benefits, but unless you're looking for more jobs in China, it doesn't.

3.  Will teaching in China help me with any transferable business skills (e.g. learning Mandarin, getting into a good business school, etc.)?

Teaching in China? None per se. Living in China? It is at least an immersion in Chinese languages. Not much more.

The ugly but honest truth...

Hi Guys,

Thanks for the continued advice.  It seems to move more clearly now.

1.  Do you guys think these same postulates hold true for Korea?  (I.e. little transferrable skills).

2.  Is there any way I can eventually teach at international schools?  (Especially if I get a teaching credential in the process).

3.  Some people are recommending Disney English.  Any opinions?

1.  Do you guys think these same postulates hold true for Korea?  (I.e. little transferrable skills).

Yes.

Overseas experience helps considerably if seeking ESL work back home. The good jobs generally also want a good degree and a solid TEFL certificate, but if you have those adding overseas experience is icing on the cake.

Overseas language-teaching experience is of almost zero (possibly even negative) value in seeking almost any other job. Of course, for international business & trade, fluency in Chinese or Korean is quite valuable, but the language-teaching experience is not.

2.  Is there any way I can eventually teach at international schools?  (Especially if I get a teaching credential in the process).

These schools generally want people who are certified to teach in the home country, which typically means a degree in education or a year at a teacher's college. The only exception I know of was someone hired at one such school as an ESL teacher. He had a degree, CELTA and over 10 years experience, mostly in China.

There's some info at:
http://wikitravel.org/en/Teaching_English#Teachers_from_other_fields

3.  Some people are recommending Disney English.  Any opinions?

Mickey and Goofy aren't too hard to do.  Just try to avoid getting assigned to speaking English like Donald Duck.

Do you guys think these same postulates hold true for Korea?  (I.e. little transferrable skills).

Yes. Maybe even more so.

Is there any way I can eventually teach at international schools?  (Especially if I get a teaching credential in the process).

Sure. Count on needing the teaching cred; a Master's and/or teaching experience Stateside will be even better. Tread these waters carefully...in China there are many beasts referring to themselves as "international schools"; only a few are the real deal. We can help you learn to tell the difference.

Some people are recommending Disney English.  Any opinions?

We have a review of Disney on this very site, easily searched up. The review isn't good, and neither is any other review I've ever seen. Personally, I would not go there...based on the reviews I've seen. I also don't want to teach children, which will be nearly the sole focus of Disney.

I interviewed for a management position with Disney English. I got the impression that Disney English works its teachers very very hard. The hours are pretty crazy.

There are some upsides though -- they offer good salaries and they give their teachers real expat insurance policies. They also have mostly foreigners in management. I turned down the job though, it just wasn't what I was looking for.

But if you want reviews of Disney English, like Raoul said, search for the thread on them in the relevant section of the board, then bump it up and ask for new info. Try not to drag your own thread off topic!

Not quite convinced it's a troll, Macho. Doesn't sound clever enough. Methinks he is a young person that thinks the world, and particularly China, needs him desperately. I presume his name "ivyman" indicates that he is from a prestigious place of learning, and that lesser mortals should acknowledge this. He is getting good advice from people that know China, but still asks for stats! There are no stats for good advice, generously, and freely given. Let him continue, or not, as the case may be!

Hi Guys,

Thanks for the continued advice.  It seems to move more clearly now.

1.  Do you guys think these same postulates hold true for Korea?  (I.e. little transferrable skills).

I am in Korea (have been in Korea for more than 8 years) so I can answer this question.

Basically what these guys are saying about China kind of holds for Korea except that as of now, it might be a bit easier to find a job in Korea than one in China.   Since I have never actually lived in China though, I can't fairly compare the two.  However, in Korea if you stay here for any significant length of time, you will feel unwelcome here.   Koreans are very accommodating at first.   They will find you a good place to stay, help you with teaching if you are a newbie a little, and so forth.  However, after a short period of time (and this is VERY short) you will be just the foreigner working at their school. 

Korea would be a smarter plan if you want to work for a year or two to save a bit of money and then do something else.  HOWEVER, you will have to specifically plan this.  In other words, you will have to specifically plan on not blowing your money by going out drinking or getting women (or whatever) AND you will have to specifically plan what you will do back in the US once you finish your year in Korea. 

Otherwise, what's likely to happen is, you'll get fed up with Korea (which happens to EVERYONE here, trust me) and because you have no plan for what you want to do back in the US, you will stick it out here.   This is why I've been here for 8+ years.  I'm not the only one this has happened to.   

Either that, or you could come to Korea, save a bit of money, and go back to the US with a bit more money.  You would however, have to start from square one again.

Transferable skills?   Maybe if you save enough money to take some actual education classes in the US and try to become a teacher.   At the very least, teaching in Korea would train you to be comfortable talking in front of a group of people.

2.  Is there any way I can eventually teach at international schools?  (Especially if I get a teaching credential in the process).

Yes, but you need education qualifications (which most English teachers in Korea don't have).  In other words, you are going to need AT LEAST, a bachelor's degree in education and two years experience teaching in a REAL school (in other words, an actual public school in the US, not a Korean public school or hogwan).

3.  Some people are recommending Disney English.  Any opinions?

Don't know.  I hear they are shit, but I'll let someone that actually has experience in China answer this one.

This is trolling on an epic scale.

I disagree. I think we're forgetting how iginit we were ourselves before actually coming to China. Ivy did start out seeming a tad dense, but he seems to be learning quickly and taking the advice more seriously. As near as I can tell, he's gotten a lot better lately.

As long as this is the case, he should be supported and welcomed. Give the guy a break. Leave the torment of newbies to Chez Fasciste (ie Dave's ESL Cafe) and other such places.

Hi Guys,

1.  Thanks for the info.  I really don't mean to sound so naive.  I hope you see that I'm asking all the questions on my mind, with the hopes to go in "with arms wide open", rather than make a career mistake.

2.  Are you guys saying second-tier grad school, or the military, is probably the best choice after this?

3.  Would online grad school (such as in information science, education, etc.) be an option?

Thanks for the consideration