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[Ivyman]

Hello Everyone,

I'm working on getting an (unpaid) internship in Shanghai; it would definitely be a great opportunity for my interests.  Hoping this internship would go through, I'd need to get a job to make ends meet while I do this internship.

Are there any particular firms, agencies, or routes I could take?

Thanks for the consideration

[Pashley]

I'm working on getting an (unpaid) internship in Shanghai; it would definitely be a great opportunity for my interests.  Hoping this internship would go through, I'd need to get a job to make ends meet while I do this internship.

I'm inclined to think that would be quite difficult.

In my experience (not in China, so not necessarily relevant), companies tend to work their interns quite hard, so it would be tricky to hold down another job as well. Conceivably possible if the internship is 9-5 and you work evenings or weekends in a language school, but even then it would involve considerable strain. Both internships and teaching tend to demand a lot of effort beyond just being somewhere for the specified hours. Interns are expected to learn things; there is homework. Teachers have preparation & marking. You could easily end up swamped.

Also, I do not know about contracts for interns but the standard contract for employees prohibits outside work unless you get the employer's permission. It is quite common for teachers to cheat on this rule to the extent of a few hours a week with private students, and to get away with that. However, that might not pay enough for you and if you cheat more, e.g. teaching many hours in a language school, there is a risk of being caught and deported. I'd guess it is a fairly small risk, but still definitely not one I'd suggest taking.

[Nolefan]

think this one through before taking the jump!

Shanghai is one hell of an expensive city so your expenses will be through the roof for room & board, not to mention transportation and regular maintenance. If the internship is full time, you'll be left with the weekend to tutor or get any sort of part time job and that might cover some expenses but doubtful that it'll take care of everything.

In my experience, the type of part time gigs that pay well are not to be found online. They're mostly word of mouth.

[Raoul F. Duke]

I'm with Nolefan...this plan sounds pretty shaky to me. Shanghai is expensive to live in, and your internship could well take a lot more hours than you're expecting.

Plus...in our home countries, unpaid internships can be valuable. I don't know who you're talking to, but in China an awful lot of internships, volunteer work, etc. are total scams. Your bosses will be pocketing your salary while laughing up their sleeves about this idiot foreigner they found who will work for free.

Also, please don't ask about agencies here. We go to tremendous lengths to try and keep people out of the clutches of recruiting agencies, and if you want to go that route you're on your own.

[Escaped Lunatic]

Shanghai is so 20th century.  Unpaid internships there will have you jumping through hoops and making coffee as a free office boy.  You need to get out to a city where new things are happening.

Linfen boasts a reasonable cost of living as well as plenty of available side jobs.  So far, I haven't heard one complaint from anyone who's worked there.

[pydilyk]

The internship plan is definitely doable but like everyone has mentioned does carry some risk. The most difficult thing about it is that you really have to be in China to begin with. There are so many expats coming off terms abroad, gap years and teaching stints who are qualified and already on location. It's much easier for a company to hire someone already in country who they have met in person than to hire someone they've maybe skype interviewed a few times and who has to go through the visa process and all the other logistics that come with moving to China. A lot of internship/job postings even say 'local expat hire' or something along those lines. So if you want the best chance of landing an internship, you need to be in China. Making that leap with no job and only a tourist visa is obviously a risk.

That said, there are lots of things that can make your life easier if you do come over to pound the pavement. Having friends already living in China is probably the best thing you can ask for. You can crash at their place for a while and they can hook you into the local expat scene. Like Nolefan said, most of the best gigs are word of mouth and you won't find them posted online.

Raoul's caution about worthless internships is also important. ONLY WORK FOR A WESTERN OWNED OR RUN COMPANY. Otherwise there is a good chance you will learn nothing except how to maximize napping during a two hour lunch break. There are obviously exceptions to this, especially amongst Chinese non-profits and ngo's, but if you are going to go with a Chinese company, make sure they are properly vetted.

The making a living problem is also an issue in big expensive cities like Shanghai and Beijing. If money is not too tight, it won't be that bad. But having to worry about paying rent and student loans while working a 40 hour unpaid week is not going to be fun. Some places will understand this and may not make you work full time, but most of the big time foreign companies won't care. Your free time will then be filled with tutoring (which will be of questionable legality. Hopefully any legit internship would come with a Z visa, which means a HK run).

So getting an internship is certainly possible, but there are lots of factors to consider. Right now there are tons of young college grads heading over to China because it is easier to find work there than in the bad economies back home. If you make the blind leap, you won't be alone. Maybe you even get lucky and some company loves you and will hire you while you are still back at home. A good place to start looking is the American Chamber of Commerce website (they have several, for different cities and China as whole, the Shanghai site is your best bet) which has lots of job and internship postings.

[Raoul F. Duke]

The internship plan is definitely doable but like everyone has mentioned does carry some risk.

I don't think anyone is claiming that the internship itself is impossible. What's at least highly improbable is doing the internship AND holding down enough work to let one live reasonably in $hanghai.

[Ivyman]

Thanks for the advice.  It sounds like I should focus first on getting the job first, then worry about the free internship.

1.  Do you guys still agree that Shanghai is the best place for my purposes (i.e. understanding the Chinese economy, connecting American and US businesses, etc.)?

2.  What do you think are the best places to work at?  (Universities, Disney English, etc.)?

3.  Any reports to substantiate what you guys are saying?

[Ruth]

3.  Any reports to substantiate what you guys are saying?

Maybe there aren't reports to substantiate what's been said, but please know that these folks are speaking from YEARS of experience living and working in China. Those of us who have been around for awhile just...know. We've either experienced it ourselves or witnessed others going through it. You are being given good advice.

[eggcluck]

While out on my travels I met an intern here who has all her costs of living paid for by the company. How did she get this? She actually joined the internship in her home country and they sent her to China. Though she is Dutch have you though about the possibly to see if companies where you are do such things?

[Raoul F. Duke]

Ivyman, you seem to suffer from the delusion that you will be able to come to China and operate there the same way you do at home. Well, you won't. You can't begin to imagine, until you witness it yourself, how incredibly different  things will be.

People spend years, decades even, trying to get a glimmer of the kind of knowledge you say you want to build. It's a career in itself, not a stepping-stone.

For one thing, you come from an information-rich society...there are heavy requirements to disclose lots of info to the public, and it's easy to get info on economics, corporations, and so forth. In China, almost none of this exists...indeed, the emphasis is on hiding as much business info as possible from the public. You won't learn much about a company or the economy from public filings or economic compilations. If those things exist at all, the information in them will not be very trustworthy...and will probably all be in Chinese anyway.

Any reports to substantiate what you guys are saying?

Is it possible to be any more rude and graceless?
You've ostensibly come to us to get advice from highly experienced people who know some truth about living and working in China. We ARE "the reports" because we're the people who have been on the ground experiencing reality in China.

If you want to disregard or distrust what a diverse list of experienced people have been trying to tell you, that's your prerogative, and upon your head be it. Please just spare us the process.

[BrandeX]

Your best bet for number 1 might lie in books or on the internet.

[Ivyman]

Thanks for the advice guys.

1.  My goal is just to get a good job that will provide transferable skills.  I think teaching in China might be a great thing.

I love research and specialized teaching.  Given how interesting China is, both intrinsically and to the business, I definitely want to make the most of things.

2.  When I say asking for evidence, I'm just saying so because anyone can have an opinion but few people have accurate reports or statistics to come with it.  For instance, I may have a terrible experience at a place, even though everyone else has good experience.

3.  I do trust you guys against seeing common problems.  How do you guys suggest getting a decent job in SHanghai?

Thanks

[Raoul F. Duke]

I don't know where you'd find reports to either confirm or deny what we're telling you. Even most foreign China journalists don't have the tenure or street-level experience many of our members have.

And you're right...people can vary in opinions about things like schools. However, on the fundamental things you're talking about, our group has said much the same things across the board.

You're getting IMHO the best advice you'll find anywhere. You would do well to give it a listen...

Your goals are getting pretty realistic. The only part that is difficult is the "transferable" part. Teaching English in China provides little or nothing that will impress future employers- trust me on that one- unless you're planning a career in TEFL. Even then, academic qualifications will carry much more weight than experience in China.

Working in Business, Hotels, or some other fields can be transferable if you're very, very lucky. It's quite hard to get such jobs unless you can speak and read Chinese at a significant level, and have real marketable skills such as management experience or technological chops. Even then, many jobs in Chinese businesses are just showboats- a white monkey with few duties and little knowledge of the company, brought in for the company's image.

If you can navigate all that, with patience and persistence you just might find what you really want. Just know that relatively few of us ever do.

My advice? Find a teaching job (doesn't necessarily have to be Shanghai), come over, and get some street smarts and a bit of the language and customs. THEN maybe you can start looking for better. The Saloon has tons of advice on how to find a job; it's there for you to read.

[Escaped Lunatic]

Linfen's rapidly growing economy needs some good foreign experts.  Shanghai is way too westernized.