Strange reaction from the girlfriend

In the eight or so months my girlfriend and I have been together, we've had plenty of arguments. Most were silly stuff, others were due to genuine misunderstandings due to cultural differences. However, tonight we were talking on QQ and something really weird happened that, even with her history of flying off the bat, surprised me. I'm not so much looking for some kind of "answer" here. I just...thought I'd vent a little. This, to me, was really strange.

I am currently four days away from returning to Wuhan. The reason I was planning on returning was purely for her. That's it. I would normally never have returned, at least not to Wuhan, and not unless I had some substantially good job lined up. I originally went to China with the goal of improving my Mandarin, which I had previously studied one year in college. And I did that. In fact, in no small part thanks to my girlfriend and her minimal English ability, my Chinese improved tenfold this year. I can now carry complete conversations on complicated life topics as long as the other person speaks clear and standard Mandarin.

Like I said, as far as my goals were concerned, I had accomplished what I went to China to do. The sensible thing for this stage in my life right now would be to go look for a "good job" and start putting a career together. Get some experience, save some money, start setting my sights on graduate school in the not too distant future, stuff like that. So, in my situation, I felt like returning to China for another year would be counterproductive. But, as I said, love can be a fickle thing and here I am, four days away from an expected and long awaited for return (I came to New York early July).

Tonight I was chatting with her on QQ. As the time draws nearer, and now that I've been away for a good couple of weeks, and given my thoughts as described above, I got a little thoughtful. Nothing major, just...random thoughts which are probably normal to have. While chatting on QQ, she asks me what these are. Everything is perfectly normal at this point. So, I begin.

I preface my forthcoming moping with this: "Well, I think the things I'm worrying about are probably just silly, unimportant things, to tell you the truth." But she insists, so I tell her. Among other things, I tell her something that increasingly sets her off until she's fuming. I'd have never thought. Here is what I said, in so many words.

"Well, babe. Obviously I'm glad I'm coming back to see you. But I'm also thinking of a few other things. You know, while I'm there this year, I also want to try to have a well-rounded life. Of course I'll be happy being with you, but I'm also a person and I need a few other things as well."

What kind of things, she asks.

"Well," I say. "For example, I'd just like to find a way to keep myself busy, something to help me feel satisfied in general. I'm just worried it might be even harder for me to adjust going back to that place right now." And then I casually say, "I just wish I could be able to find some friends there."

I should explain this.

As I already tried to make her understand once in the past--unsuccessfully I might add--while in Wuhan I often experienced a feeling of social isolation. I know, it's a normal part of culture shock. The reason I felt this way is because whenever I tried to get close to a Chinese person--and I have found every Chinese I met to be invariably friendly and chatty--I inevitably stumble into a wall. It's the mindset. The worldview. The attitudes. It's what I perceive as a lack of overall life experience, a single-sided thought process about everything. Example: whenever I got a new class, I'd ask them, "What are your hobbies?" Every single time I got: basketball, movies, eating, computer games, going to the library. Every time. When I talked with young dudes and I tried to have "guy talk" with them, it went nowhere. You can't discuss "chicks" with them, at least not the ones I met. They just don't get it. I basically felt I couldn't have any kind of meaningful discussion with any of them. It's difficult to connect with a 22-year-old sophomore virgin who has never even held a girl's hand, much less dated.

Fair enough. Whether it's a "cultural difference" or whatever is really not relevant. It is what it is. And that's fine. My point is that ALL I WAS TRYING TO DO was casually express this feeling to my girlfriend. I told her that, since sometimes I experience this feeling of "loneliness," I didn't want to let it influence my overall attitude when I go back, and so I'm just thinking of a few things--a few interests, pursuits, goals or what have you--to keep myself feeling busy, like I'm doing something significant during my time there. Because, if I don't, I will end up going to work and coming home to her. Sure, she's awesome and I love her blah blah blah, but that is not a WELL-ROUNDED life, and I do not want that to influence my mood, which I would then project on her.

This is what I was innocently trying to explain to her when things started rolling downhill...

"I don't understand, why do you care about other people?!"

"I don't," I said. "Of course I don't. My point is not that I care about other people, all I'm saying is it would be nice if I could find a few friends while I'm there, so that I have a more well-rounded life. Y'know, babe?"

That didn't seem to go through. She kept repeating this question in different forms and getting angrier. Weird. Then she goes, "You shouldn't care about other people, you should only care about how you can give me a good life!" Now, I believe she said this in a tongue-in-cheek sort of way. She meant that, you know, "I'm your girlfriend, I'll make you happy, you just worry about me, babe. Forget about them," etc. I get that. I again tried to explain my point in vain. Then she started getting really weird.

"You're really making me feel like you're unreasonable. Now you're making me feel like we really have a LOT of differences between us."

Uh... what? I play guitar and I was in a band before--just a small example of the kind of personal non-money-related interest that seems to be absent in the majority of people I met there, and of course she knew that. Her next comment was:

"I don't want my husband to tell me when he's forty years old that his favorite thing is  music and that he wants to go play rock and roll!"

What the f.... No earthly idea where this came from. Really, none. I have never expressed the wish to be a professional musician. The future plans I have discussed with her have all had the same theme, one with which, I thought, we both agreed: when we return to the States I'll get a good job, save money, buy a house, a car if we need one (I live in New York, sometimes having a car here is tantamount to shooting yourself in the food), have children one day, etc. I don't know where the hell she came up with that all of a sudden. Then the strangest of all:

"I want a real man! I don't want some guy who's going to go worrying about how to make his 'own life' well-rounded!"

What the fuck? What in the friggin' world she was talking about is completely and utterly beyond me. I don't understand how me casually talking about how I want the next year or so to go smoothly while I'm there with her somehow translated into a personal insult for her, much less how it implied I was a man with no responsibility. I even prefaced my remarks with what I said above: "Yeah, actually I think this is not that important, I'm probably just nervous about going back. I'll probably be fine after a few days once I get back into the hang of it." What a bizarre reaction. Then she started saying things like, "If you don't to come back, don't come back!" and other things of that sort which she usually does when she's pissed off, which in turn starts to push my goddamn buttons and I just got off QQ instead of arguing with her like a lunatic.

~*~

Here is my theory. First, a quick story of two, at the time, seemingly insignificant incidents.

A hard drive I had died while I was there. I had a lot of music on that hard drive. Not just stuff I downloaded, that's not important. I'm talking about music I had painstakingly composed in minute detail during the past few years. Sure, it's not "my life." But it is my effort. It was my hobby. It was my creativity. I think most people will understand that. So, when the hard drive died on me, I was a bit upset. She seemed unsympathetic and unresponsive to this. When I quizzed her, she says, "Why are you upset? Music is not your life."

Okay... Second incident:

One day we're home just relaxing. She's watching some show and I'm casually browsing some music discussion board. It's just what I like to do when I have some free time at home, just like any other casual interest a person might have. One day she asks me in a reserved by palpably stubborn tone. "Why are you always looking at that music stuff? That's not your job."

Hm... Alright. So now my theory about why my saying, "I want to have a satisfying life" pissed her off.

Could it be that she is truly so one-sided, so devoid of any kind of personal passion or interest besides money, house, and car, that, to her, any expression of such kind signifies one has no responsibility?

I don't mean to badmouth my own girlfriend. I am being factual: she was raised in the villages, literally sleeping on the floor in huts, until her parents took her to the "city" when she was twelve. Then her parents worked very hard to make some money, and then she went to Wuhan to study. Though she is not destitute, she grew up in a state of poverty. So now, all she ever thinks or talks about is money. Money, house, car, name brands, skin care products (and their name brands), money, money, money. Couple that with the fact that, quite similar to nearly all my students, she seems utterly devoid of any kind of personal interest, or even the DESIRE for a personal interest of any sort, and it starts to become eerily apparent that, YES! to her, doing ANYTHING outside what involves your "work" and your "money" is frivolous and vapid.

Therefore, me so much as casually mentioning, "Hey, babe. I'm just thinking that while I'm there I'd like to maybe meet some people I can hang out with as well, so I don't feel trapped between work and home" really DID mean, "I care about something that is not money and not you, therefore I am an irresponsible and unreliable man."

I could use a few adjectives to describe this belief and attitude. Superficial and ignorant would be at the top of the list. But my assessment of her values (or narrow scope thereof) is beside the point. It is what it is. What matters is this:

I truly felt, tonight, that the cultural difference (or her lack of culture, but now I'm assessing again and that's irrelevant) just cannot possibly lead to any good place. A major part of the reason why I insisted we go do a visa interview this spring was that I was hoping her spending two months in New York would instantly change her worldview, make her mature more, let her mind expand by seeing a bigger world. But now I am beginning to think this would've been pointless.

Mind you, this is only one side of the story. And there have been many times before where, as flabbergasted as I was, I found out later I had grossly misunderstood her. However, this time I really feel whether I misunderstood her or not, or she misunderstood me, is entirely besides the point. No relationship should be this weirdly complicated. This wasn't the first time we argued over money and priorities this way, but it was the first time I truly felt our differences are ultimately insurmountable.

I really don't know if I'm returning four days from now. Better to stay in New York and look for a "real job" the way a "real man" would.

Yeah, I don't know dude.

I would definitely be wary of expecting a trip to the States to mature your girlfriend or broaden her mind in any meaningful way. Usually people with insular Chinese views just have those views solidified when they go abroad. They find the very fact that America is not China to be an affront to their worldview. America is dangerous, dirty, people are unfriendly, the food is horrible, and above all, it is not China. I totally understand your impulse though, I had a Chinese ex boyfriend many years ago (when I was about your age actually) I had similar ideas about how a trip to America might change his life. I think that for me coming to China was so life changing and eye opening that I felt that everyone would feel similarly transformed by experiencing another culture, but Chinese people tend to react fairly negatively to life in foreign countries. Maybe it is just that the idea that China is the best nation on earth is too ingrained or maybe it is just that they really lack the education and culturedness that would have prepared them for life abroad, but whatever the reasons, I wouldn't count on a stay in NYC to necessarily be transformative for your girlfriend.

Obviously I don't know your girlfriend personally but I can't see any long term good coming out of the relationship based on what you describe. She seems to be a fairly typical social climbing Chinese woman for whom the most important attribute in a potential spouse is his ability to provide for her in the lifestyle that she expects. It doesn't really matter what sort of background she comes from, the type is pervasive -- especially in the 2nd tier cities. The constant talk about money money money, the lack of any interests, the disregard for things that are important to you -- none of that is going to magically change.

There are Chinese girls out there that are into books and music and who can have a conversation that doesn't revolve around cosmetics and name brands, who marry the musicians and artists that they love (even if it means they can't buy an apartment just yet), who follow their American grad student boyfriends to places like Wisconsin and instead of moaning, persue graduate degrees of their own, who are interested in working for NGOs or who study Italian in their free time. I know girls like this. Sure, they're somewhat rare in China, but they do exist. Multicultural relationships are hard enough even when you do share similar core values, but if you don't share even those, then forget it.

Probably not the reassurance you might be wanting to hear, but that's my 2cp.

Unfortunately, I agree with TLD.  She doesn't want you to enjoy the thing you are interested in.  Why would she care about what you are looking at on the computer when she is watching TV.  Obviously you weren't watching her watch TV so you don't care about her.

I would talk to her again on QQ, but I would hope you could cancel your flight too.  Get a Doctor to give you a medical excuse to cancel the flight so you don't lose all your money.

That sucks. One other thing - Might she also be getting a bunch of crap pressure from friends and family about dating a Laowai?  I know from experience that it happens, and it can be pervasive.

Foreign males, and especially young foreign English teaching males have a pretty bad rap in the Middle Kingdom.  The social pressure on unmarried women can be enormous, so some of that may be coming out in what she says towards you.

Almost all mixed couples in China are gonna have to fight this battle to some extent, but it helps if your other half has at least one foot in your camp.

My wife was telling me about a lecturer from Cambridge and how this year he went to beijing university to make a key note speech. The content of the speech was basically that modern China had viciously turned young people into mindless, culturally devoid idiots.
The enormous pressure on people to buy a house and car and work until there are soulless machines is ingrained into the younger generation. People don't go on any kind of gap year to broaden their horizons or attain any interest outside of study or work that it is slowly leaching out all forms of meaningful culture and killing people's personalities.
All of which I sadly agree with. Young Chinese people have no dreams or goals outside of work and study that it can make them horribly one sided and boring. Of course this is not everyone but it's against the grain of what most people experience.
Not all Chinese girls are like that but I've found that most of the ones I would consider as viable long term partners are the ones that have lived and studied abroad (my wife lived in the UK for almost 8 years) Unfortunantly I generally see stark culture difference between mixed couples often gets worse as time goes on, not better. With the success stories usually coming from women that have vastly different natural personalities than the norm in China or men that are hugely accepting (this is rare though as I think we tend to stick to our beliefs and moral boundaries as much or more than Chinese people)

I find myself thinking about all the pretty Chinese girls I meet and considering their personalities and how they act I can't think of anything besides their physical appearance that could attract me to them. At the end of the day the cultural boundaries and complete lack of goals besides very shallow material driven ones really turn me off.
My wife encourages me to have hobbies and a life outside work and study, she bought me a guitar a few months ago and encourage me to do things that makes me happy. We have a long term goal for our finances and where we want to be in life but still focus on the things that make us happy outside of that. If I didn't have a partner that accepted that and understood me and the things that make me happy then I would expect to have a very bitter life and feel very resentful about it.   

Sometimes we don't put ourselves first and that can be a bad thing, if you are solely returning to China to be with this girl then maybe it's time to rethink that. If you genuinely believe that this girl is the one for you and despite the problems you have that you could work it all out and lead a long and happy life (ie marriage and family) then sure you could put your life on hold to come back and stick it out for her.
But you should take a good hard look at the reality of the situation and work out for yourself (not your gf) if it is worth it and make your choice about what you think will be best for your emotional, financial and life long goals. If we don't make ourselves happy then it's really hard to support someone elses emotional needs and that's not a good place to be for either person.

Then she goes, "You shouldn't care about other people, you should only care about how you can give me a good life!" Now, I believe she said this in a tongue-in-cheek sort of way.

Sorry, mate. That wasn't tongue-in-cheek. That's what she really thinks. I'd stay home and find yourself a job....or go back to China, other than Wuhan and find a job. Chinese women are hard subjects to master, even with my vast experience!!

Run for your life Invictus!!!  That is what keeps popping into my mind as I read your comments. I know that I'm not in your age group, but I have been there. I feel sad when I see people wasting their lives in the wrong relationships. This is because I knew great love and I want others to know what that is like. Be very careful that this lady does not try to manipulate you any more once she realizes that SHE may have been too sure that she had the upper hand in your relationship. You sound like a nice young man; don't sell yourself short!

Presumably there's something genuine between the two of you. For sure, if it's just that she's cute and fun, then I guess you should call it a day.

Her reaction isn't strange. She's isn't 'wrong' or being unreasonable, at least not from her cultural perspective.

She wants security. If you can prove to her that you have a realistic and achievable plan for financially supporting her, and maybe her family, then she won't be so worried. However, hitching her fotunes to an itinerant English teacher is not such a good move for her. Her friends and family doubtless worry that you have no long term plan for your life. You're just taking things as they come and trying to enjoy life. Perhaps you might not even want to marry her in the end. You're just seeing how things pan out. If this is the case then you need to let her know, as she'll probably want to bail, however much she likes you.

Does your plan for financial security involves her going back to the USA with you and establishing a life there? Won't she miss her family? Do you really think that's what she wants? Do you want to stay in China? What job will you do? I'm not sure the English teacher salary is going to cut it, but it'd be an option if you can teach privates and start pulling in 15-20k a month.

Just ask her. Ask her what she wants. If you can meet all her needs for the relationship, then I doubt she'll mind you listening to music. She's not concerned by your interest in music, She's concerned by your lack of interest in work, money and security.

If the two of you don't want the same things, the relationship's doomed. That's true of all relationships.

sorry to hear about this Invictus, and I hope it works out. Sounds like you need a real sit-down-clear-the-air sort of talk... a lot of the time these things become magnified by distance and misunderstanding are very common when using things like QQ.

On the lack of world view side of things. I got chatting to a Chinese restaurant owner here in Dublin, and she was very keen to know where I thought was better, China or Ireland. Diplomatically I said that they're both good, whereupon she started going on about how boring Chinese people think Ireland is and how much fun China is, where "there are lots of places to go and see, and you can sing KTV...". I kid you not. 

Firstly, there are plenty of Chinese-style KTV places in Dublin.

Secondly, Ireland is one of the most popular tourist destinations in Europe, and Dublin is a city where you have to be trying hard not to have any fun!

This lady, and her family, must rarely step outside of their Chinatown environs and social group (which is in a real shit-pit area of north Dublin, but with pretty decent food) and have no will to actually go and see all the cool stuff and places right on her doorstep. It made me a bit sad actually.

A tour to New York might help, but it might be up to you to make her do things and explain why some things are cool and good and fun and worth doing just for the sake of it.

I'm lucky that my wife isn't like this, and you can see where she got it from, when her parents came over here they loved every minute of it, and happily chowed down on food they probably didn't like that much, but were willing to try nonetheless.

Reread what you wrote and try to look at it from a very paranoid female perspective.  It wouldn't be too hard to misinterpret some of early parts as "I want to be able to become VERY close friends with some other hot chicks - so I can have a well rounded life."  Once that's even hinted at in the back of her mind, then insecurity about everything else goes exponential.


Whether you keep the GF or not, try to find some Chinese friends who aren't 22 going on 12 to hang with some of the time.  Most of my friends are younger than me, but the bulk of them are in their 30's and have a lot more to discuss than sports and video games.

Man this is my first post on this forum.  I have never been to China and I understood perfectly where this girlfriend of yours is coming from after only reading the first few paragraphs of your post.

My advice is:
1)  Dump the b**ch, unless you want the rest of your life controlled by her. In other words, if she wants to move to Harbin, you have to move and find a job there. Or if she gets interested in Jai Alai, you have to be interested in it too.  Or if she doesn't like your friend Mr. Lee then Mr. Lee can't be your friend anymore.  I don't know of any sane guy that would want this.

Either that, or use her strictly for booty call.

2)  Try to avoid nagging or controlling women in the future.  If you really want to get married (which is a stupid idea in general), then do the following.   After dating a girl for more than a year, if she is still okay with you having other interests, that's the girl you should consider marrying (along with any other criteria you personally want).  The thing is, you want to weed out the girls that will pretend to be cool with you at the beginning in order to rope you in.  As soon as they think you are their main steady boyfriend and that you are "future husband" that's when they change.

3)  Spend at least one hour a week, for the next few months on youtube listening to Tom Leykis.

I completely agree with Mr. Benn.

Some of what you said to her can be viewed as

"our relationship is not good enough as it is and i need something else that may not include you"

This may be scary to her because it has a lack of commitment feel. The most common reaction to this is anger, second would be silence.

For her, better you never come back than for you to half-heartedly return.

You seem to be straining under the bit. Be honest with yourself and what you see as your future. If she doesn't fit in your scenarios ….. let her go but remember, you'll probably have to wear the bit in some form at some time in the future.

Good luck

-----------


Hey elzoog,

Your first post eh?

You think calling her a bitch and telling him to use her as a 'booty call' was necessary to make your point(s)?

They've been together for 8 months and he may be moving across the world only for her.

Welcome to the saloon.

You seem to be straining under the bit. Be honest with yourself and what you see as your future. If she doesn't fit in your scenarios ….. let her go but remember, you'll probably have to wear the bit in some form at some time in the future.

Please note that one of the things this girl is complaining about is this guy is interested in music.

You really think that he should give up interest in music for her?   Really?  Or that he should continue to put up with offensive remarks from her based on her not liking his interest in music?

Basically, I would say that liking music (to the point of being upset that music he put a lot of effort into writing got deleted) is part of who he is.   If a girl isn't going to accept who he is what's the point in him having a serious relationship with her?

Hey elzoog,

Your first post eh?

You think calling her a bitch and telling him to use her as a 'booty call' was necessary to make your point(s)?

Not strictly, but basically that's what he should do.

Besides what would you call a woman who nags a guy because he's not something she wants him to be?   An angel?

They've been together for 8 months and he may be moving across the world only for her.

Yeah, he's being irrational.   I've been irrational regarding women too so I can't really fault him for that.   I have been with women that I have fallen in love with, thought were "the one" and so forth.


No woman is worth giving up who you are to be with.

As a big music person, I know what you mean regarding the hard-drive dying. I have been producing music on computers for a few years now and one of the most painful things about it is losing a host of files in which you have invested not only time, but love and enthusiasm. the follow up attempts at recreating that feeling are always in vain. The thing that used to get me was my computer crashing 8 hours into a music session and me realising I hadn't saved the file for the past few hours  . I certainly need a woman that can empathise a little in those situations!

I would explore all possible scenario's and explanations before making a decision on something in which I've invested 8 months. Stil/JLMB's advice seems solid to me.

elzoog, I don't think he should give up music and I never said that. I believe, Just like Mr. Benn pointed out, that music isn't the main point of her worries.

I have no problems with your advice other than your language in doing so. Calling his girlfriend a bitch is unnecessary and rude no matter what you think of her behaviour, especially coming from a stranger.