Guns

Another really sad part about that young Aussie guy being gunned down, was that the perps were about 15yrs old. Apparently they would have continued on their rampage had they not been apprehended so quickly. As teachers, it must make many of you folk wonder what could happen if an incident really got out of hand in your classroom or School grounds. I saw something on the News which showed several incidents of students attacking teachers and other students. This was to do with an article about discipline (or lack of it) in Aussie schools. In my day, one was very careful about any "bad" behaviour, as one could and would be caned by the Headmaster. We had tough kids in my day too, but they knew their place. To be perfectly honest, I feel that we are FAR too weak as a Nation in relation to discipline in schools, homes and jails (goals).  Sorry if I sound like an old goat, but when I was young, most people in the Country towns had weapons and we didn't have the huge problem we have today which necessitated the introduction of our very strict gun ownership laws. I keep saying "they are lucky that I don't run this Country".

When I was looking on the Internet for articles concerning the Aussie who was shot, most did not mention the race of the alleged shooters.  I did find two articles that mentioned one of them was white.  White my ass...  WTF   I knew something was up when the articles mentioned that the car was black but didn't mention the race of the shooters.  I am sure there won't be a peep heard about this from Jackson, Sharpton, etc... and our illustrious president won't say, "If I had a son, he would look like one of them".  Regardless if the shooter is white, black, brown, etc..., it is always the parents that get me when they say shit like:  "My son is not that way” or “My son is a good kid".  Furthermore, Obama and HUD can kiss my ass concerning their Affirmatively Furthering Fair Housing proposal. 

Yee Haw America!

http://www.nypost.com/p/news/national/police_australian_player_killed_J8hM1jhw9Us1DltFFWCGQM

What really stands out to me, is that these young people did not appear to consider that there would be consequences.    As a species, we certainly appear to be evolving in a manner which does not give me any confidence. Most animal species know that there is a code of behaviour to be followed. Why not mankind? We just seem to look for excuses. On TV right now, they are discussing the fact that we are becoming a Nation of bystanders, particularly when it comes to bullying. I know that this is really about guns, but ultimately it comes down to human behaviour.

http://www.ibtimes.com/beijing-bans-selling-knives-attempt-curb-stabbings-after-two-fatal-attacks-1359229

Beijing officials went on a city-wide crackdown on illegal weapons on Monday, seizing over 300 guns. (Private firearms are not permitted in China.) But they went further. The following day, Beijing police issued an order instructing supermarkets to take knives off their shelves after two separate stabbing incidents left three people dead and three others injured last week.

http://www.chinadaily.com.cn/china/2013-07/29/content_16847897.htm

... a man was randomly attacking passersby with a knife on the side of a road in the city's Luohu District.

Yee Haw!

I am sure there won't be a peep heard about this from Jackson, Sharpton, etc... and our illustrious president won't say, "If I had a son, he would look like one of them". 

I have no idea what parallel you think you're drawing here.  In the Travon Martin case the shooter was tried and found not guilty. Are you supposing that this is what might happen with crazed mass-murderers like this last one?  What's the connection?

I am temporarily locking this topic so that it can be reviewed by the moderator team. I am also throwing it in the pit, where it probably should have been to begin with.

Please everyone review the Saloon rules. This thread breaks them outright and we've been tolerant of it so far as it has been a mostly civil discussion, but it is starting to cross certain lines.

Unlocking this thread again.

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Quote from: CWL on August 21, 2013, 11:44:52 AM

I am sure there won't be a peep heard about this from Jackson, Sharpton, etc... and our illustrious president won't say, "If I had a son, he would look like one of them". 

I have no idea what parallel you think you're drawing here.  In the Travon Martin case the shooter was tried and found not guilty. Are you supposing that this is what might happen with crazed mass-murderers like this last one?  What's the connection?

What I think he means is soon after Travon Martin was shot Jackson and Sharpton were mugging for the camera screaming it was a case of racism and needs to be prosecuted on a federal level as a hate crime (which could still happen to Zimmerman despite the fact he was acquitted). 

Up to now all we have seen from Jackson was a tweet saying it was "senseless violence and should be frowned upon." Sharpton on his TV show saying the "killing wasn't racial, it was a random act and the system worked, the kids were arrested.

I started this thread 18 pages ago, but haven't really checked it since. This journal article is worth a read, or at least a browse, if only to check the table of gun ownership and gun related death by country. South Africa is the only odd statistic: low gun ownership, high gun related deaths. This probably has something to do with the white minority owning guns, and shooting at the black majority, who can't afford them .
http://www.amjmed.com/webfiles/images/journals/ajm/AJM12080.pdf

Is that registered gun ownership or unregistered gun ownership? One could, to play the devil's advocate, argue that firearms related casualties could just as well be carried out by people of the same skin colour but using illegal firearms, which then could lead to a defensible questioning of the statistics in the journal. Also, I recall an episode of "Yes, Prime Minister" in which Sir Humphrey Appleby proves to Bernard that one can, essentially, make statistics prove anything one wants.

one can, essentially, make statistics prove anything one wants.

You can prove anything using statistics. 89% of people know that! [attr. Homer Simpson]
I'm not sure how you get statistics for unregistered ownership.

Increased number of guns would tend to increase the chances of murdered via guns, the same way that increased numbers of cars increase one's chances of being deliberately run over.  On the other hand, do guns and gun control laws do anything to decrease one's overall chances of being murdered?

http://www.law.harvard.edu/students/orgs/jlpp/Vol30_No2_KatesMauseronline.pdf

So if everyone owns guns, then murder rates might go down.... Great, USA jails must be nearly empty....oh, wait a sec...! 

On the other hand, do guns and gun control laws do anything to decrease one's overall chances of being murdered?
http://www.law.harvard.edu/students/orgs/jlpp/Vol30_No2_KatesMauseronline.pd

One would imagine so.

Spiffy conclusion. I have about 50 books next to me dealing with crime and punishment from Mesopotamia to present day and murder, heinous or otherwise, crops up rather a lot in them, before and after the invention of the gun. Gun control deals, one could argue, with the legal acquisition of firearms, obtaining licenses and such. Criminals, being right rapscallions, rarely bother with such niceties. So gun control does, indeed, limit the possibility of one getting gunned down by a person who has legally acquired a gun. It does not, however, do jack-diddley to prevent you getting shot by some shady character who purchased a firearm with the serial number filed off...or stabbed..or strangled...or bludgeoned...run over...tazed....decapitated...shot with a bow'n'arrow/crossbow...poisoned...hung...no guns would definitely limit the possibility of getting murdered.