In the community

Yeah I know - another damn soapbox coming up!!

But ETR's 'overtime' thread brings up an interesting point.  I agree totally about being paid for the work you do, but .... (and I guess it applies more to unis and schools than to training centres) - we are also part of the university or school community.

Being part of a community means that you also contribute stuff here and there as your ability/time etc allows. In turn, the community contributes to you - in intangibles.

I really enjoy coaching the speech students, taking the debating team, and working with students on their resumes, applications for jobs or overseas universities.  This stuff I do voluntarily.  (3 times a week for the last 2 weeks with 15+ students at a time) And I do get paid - in a whole bunch of other ways rather than money.  Biggest example - I get sent on the trips with the students or teams to Beijing, Chengdu etc etc (including Bangladesh, and if we are successful, next year to Kuala Lumpur).  This wasn't (and couldn't have) been planned.

But better, in my mind, is that I get to know the students better, and can share some triumphs and sorrows. I get to know more about how things operate, meet other teachers, do all sorts of different things.  When the debate team forms itself into a really good strong club, with charters, committee etc, that sort of stuff is fantastic to watch.  No amount of pay brings that level of satisfaction.

For me this stuff isn't work.  If they ask me to teach additional classes during short semester - yep that's work, and I want to be paid for it - even if I have a 12 hour contract and I'm only working 10, as happened last year).  But I figure the rest of it is becoming part of the place we live, making our own lives more interesting, being a member of the community.

Any opinions?? (Apart from you are a nutcase!  )

While I do agree somewhat with you, to be part of the community we should try to do a little extra. But it should be purely voluntary and they should ask all teachers involved to volunteer, including the locals.
I do not see to many of the local teachers working near as many hours as we already put in in front of the class. Yes, they tend t be required to be in their office more - but at least they have an office to work in. Most often our offices are our homes and I personally like o keep my home separate from my work. In China, tis is simply protecting yourself as all too often here it is easy for (especially us males) us to be gossiped about in regards to students and 'extra-curricular' activities, even when it is far from the truth. It is all about appearances.
When the ocals establish these activities like you mention and participate fully in them, then yes, it would be fine to be involved. |But as is most often the case, it is the laowai that ends up bearing the heaviest work load and ends up doing all the preperation, with little to no thanks.
Granted LE, that you are at a unique uni here, because I don't see this happening at any of the others that I work at or any one from my ozzie school works at. I am always told by my boss that I must be flexible with our chinese partners, but unfortunately they are never flexible with me, so I have now taken on the flexible persona of Iron Man.

Hey, I'm ALL for volunteering and doing things as a part of the community.

However, these things should happen because you want to do them, NEVER because some rheumy-eyed chiseling tightwad is pressuring you to do them.

DO be a good part of the community, and DO be kind and helpful. But pick your own causes, don't let them get chosen for you.
If it's being required by your employer, no matter what euphemism they apply it's still WORK, and you need to get paid for it. Period.

I am always told by my boss that I must be flexible with our chinese partners, but unfortunately they are never flexible with me, so I have now taken on the flexible persona of Iron Man.

Yup. The "Chinese partners" can go suck eggs.

What they said.  There's a difference between being told you MUST coach speech students one hour a day, five days a week for three weeks and CHOOSING to devote however much time you want to to debate clubs, etc.

I'm CHOOSING to eat lunch with my students in the dining hall and sticking around afterward for the rest of the lunch period to chat with those who want more English practice. If they are willing to give up their nap time, I can too. My choice, off the books, not related to work. Part of the community. If admin told me I HAD to, I'd expect it to count toward my work hours.

 A bit redundant, but I'll throw my lot in with the rest. You do all that extra stuff because you WANT to. Fine. But being told you have to do it and not getting paid for it is completely unacceptable. At my previous job I was assigned tasks like judging English competitions, doing voice recordings and being paraded around counties like a celebrity. Stuff that had nothing to do with teaching (which was what I was contracted to do), and god knows how much my boss made off that shit. Big reason why I left.

 Personally, I have reached the point where I expect to get paid for every little thing I do. Somebody is making money off it, and I want my share. Not being mercenary, I just got sick of being exploited.

 Hey...if you enjoy it (and I can see how it would be fun and rewarding), good for you. But NOBODY should be forced to do ANY extra work without compensation.

I totally agree that you should not be forced to work anything beyond your contract.  I was asked the 1st year I was here if I would take the debate team and coach them which I agreed to, and because this was clearly going to be an annual event, I wanted to have the students have a better preparation than 2 weeks before the comp, so started the rest of it.  But I think if I had said no to the 1st request I would not have been pushed into doing it.

When I judge competitions, I get paid, but I don't ask for payment for coaching, because that is purely voluntary on both my part and the student's. If they don't want coaching, then they don't ask me - it is the students who ask for help, not the Department.

But in essence what I am saying here, is that by volunteering to do this, I have gained a hell of a lot more than if I had demanded payment and possibly driven students away.

It always comes down to a case-by-case, individual call.

Placing well in the competition DOES have some value to the unis- recruiting tool, bragging rights...all sorts of things. Me, I'd'a wanted the money. I value my free time VERY highly, and I figure I can enhance a student's educational experience and get paid just as well as I can do it for free. I feel for my students...but I don't feel terribly responsible for them outside the realm of my teaching duties, for which I am paid.

But every case and every person is different.

This thread does seem to have sort of hijacked the discussion away from the original thread on essentially the same topic over in the Teachers' area, which is perhaps regrettable.

I figured this was about volunteering and becoming part of a community within the work context.  I didn't think it was about strategies for making the bosses pay you for overtime.  I was trying NOT to hijack the other thread!

The road to Hell is paved with good intentions.

Don't be crankey 

It's my job to be cranky. And, I might add, I'm damn good at it.

Lots of practice? 

Community.  I felt a part of the community I lived in for three years.  It began when I was welcomed by a team (more than 10) of my coworkers who had cleaned the flat prior to my arrival and helped carry all of our luggage up four flights of stairs.  It was fostered by sharing an office with 11 coworkers, none of whom were FTs.  Yes there were plenty of problems, but the community surrounded me.

Here at the university, perhaps I got off on the wrong foot by living in the city and commuting when I had classes.  It's a job.  Now that I live on campus I feel more a part of the community, but it's with students, not coworkers. FTs are not included in departmental meetings.  We have our own office and it's not with the Chinese teachers.  The only time I get to know the Chinese teachers here is if I'm testing with them. I'm having to work at building that sense of community, which is as it should be, I guess.  There have been issues with admin that make me NOT want to do extras, but that only hurts me and the students.  I'm trying to overcome that.

yeah, its all about knowing what you are prepared to do and being able to stick to your guns.

Seems there is a cultural difference here where you may do something to help someone out and the general populace see you as an easy take, and ask you to do more and more until you get so pissed off you tell them to f*** off.

If you are of a generous and kind nature then for sure you will need to practice some assertiveness skills.  Youve gotta be kind to yourself too eh.

This isn't just a Chinese thing.  Be a teacher anywhere and there's always something the administrations will pressure you to do "for the children" for free (or at your own expense).  In the US, there's always some sort of special event, fundraiser, pta meeting, or something else to nibble away at the free time available.  Sometimes it's nice to do something extra and be part of the community, but frequently the more extra you do, the more extra is expected.

But in general most of us only volunteer to do what we figure we will enjoy - so we are giving ourselves as much if not more than we give others.  Genuine volunteer work is NEVER done for thanks or gratitude, but for something we see needs doing and something we see that will give US satisfaction.

If we are needy enough we will pat ourselves on the back for it, but if we are honest, we will admit that whatever we do, we do for ourselves, and we get back way more than we give.