Learning Chinese

I ran across this a little gem over a week ago.

https://youtu.be/LFcPtvo94gU

It's called the Medlock Method. Sometimes I listen to it while commuting to & from the office, but you will need Your Tub to access it. Also I think the content would be retained longer if I sat down and just focused on the lesson. Which doesn't look like that is going to happen anytime soon. 

Thanks for sharing those sites, Mlaeux. They seem really useful. I'm new to this forum (heading to Chengdu in January) and was wondering how popular language-exchange is in China. I found studying one-on-one with a native speaking partner super useful in the past . Also, it's free and I'm cheap.
Anyone know of any sites where language-exchanges are set-up? I'm used to finding things like this on Meetup.com but looks like it's not used that much in Chengdu.

Hang around Starbucks with a textbook. 

Alternatively, try out the HelloTalk app.

Haha, thanks Tree, good advice. I'll check out the app for sure.

I'm late to the party, but here I am anyway! I'm heading into a semester's worth of language study with supposedly between 30 and 40 fellow zero beginners and a prof just back from Guangzhou. The prof proposes the cohort be split into three classes, probably based on whatever level of language the students already have. I personally have some Chinese, but no coherent foundation. I can ask questions but not often answer them. If I'm prepared with the more or less right technical word, I can usually buy stuff, but ultimately my Chinese is probably caveman standard - lots of pointing and grunting. So, 31 pages and nearly 10 years later, what's the skinny on learning Chinese? What for instance are these flashcards I used to keep hearing about? Are they still the shizzle? What's best these days?

Nearly 3 years using DuoLingo.com has helped, but I'm still not catching enough of what people say and even when I do, by the time I've sorted out a reply in my mind, the conversation has moved on.

I've (very!) recently added another tool to hammer a bit more Mandarin through my excessively thick skull.

I needed something incredibly simple and repetitive.  I can't recall where or how, but somehow I ended up seeing an episode of Peppa Pig.  Woohoo!  Language fit for a 4 year old and extremely repetitive!  My wife found me a boxed set of DVDs with English and Chinese. (sadly no Pinyin option for subs, but I know a lot more Chinese characters now thanks to Duo).

So, I watched an episode in English and then played it back in Chinese.  I caught about half of it.  Watched another episode and got the same results, plus learned a new word in the process (even better, I didn't forget it 20 minutes later.

I guess I'll keep doing an episode or two per day, then at some point, go back to the beginning and try to look up the parts I can't quite catch.  Google translate is pretty good at picking up Chinese text, so I can just pause with the Chinese on screen and scan it into translate if I get really stuck on some point.  If I can get up to 80% of what's said in a block of episodes, then I'll move onto the next set.

These days I think discourse plays a very large role in language learning. How people organize their speech and what type of information they emphasize has an impact on how accessible "the language" is, I think. That's to say, practical experience of language use makes vocab and grammar work for a learner, but alien discourse types disconnect the learner from practical experience. I think this is one of the major issues facing English in China, and I think it probably has to also affect Mandarin for foreigners.

Or, to sum up, what I would really, really like in attempting to learn Chinese is an introduction to Chinese discourse types. Rather than learn from the bottom up - vocab, grammar, mysterious communicative exercise - I'd like to learn from the top down - how are people organizing their speech and what do they focus on.

It's dumb, but for English we have Bloom's Taxonomy, and for Mandarin we have.,,?

Discourse style learning might be interesting, but unless someone's got DVDs for this, my Chinese isn't good enough to closely follow most live conversations.

My personal theory is vocabulary is the most important thing.  If you don't know words, perfect grammar, perfect pronunciation, and perfect (fill in the blank for assorted nuances) don't help.  "I want water." grammatically is the same in Chinese, but I believe speakers of either language could get the hint that an aqueous refreshment is desired even if someone said "Want water I.", Water I want.", "I water want.", "Want I water."  The listener might even overlook the possible horror movie implications of "Water want I."

Naturally, putting the words in an acceptable order helps, especially for more complex sentences.  This will also help native speakers have a better chance of figuring out what word is being said if one word is seriously mispronounced.

I've got a limited basic vocabulary and can make sounds that are at least approximating what I'm trying to say.  DuoLingo is very nice about explaining some of the structural differences, like time, then place, then action.

When I'm done with Peppa Pig, I'm plotting to move on to something natively Chinese - Bad Bad Wolf and Pleasant Goat.  Hopefully I can get that with Chinese and English subtitles.  Because it's originally Chinese, there won't be anything that had to be awkwardly adapted from English.

Discourse practice is waaaaaay too hard if it means learning a discourse style before you speak. It's not even language teaching at that point. More like philosophy, history, sociology.

Actual discourse practice involves communicative exercises designed to provoke a certain type of discourse in the participants. Teachers add in some expectations on language use (eg "Goddammit Timmy, don't just make declarations, you gotta ask a question some times toooooo, you little shit!").

Then some process occurs (patent pending) where students link aspects of their own production to a discourse schema. ("Oh yeah," says Timmy, "I was doing Political Propagandising there!") In due course, the discourse type becomes available to them as an organizational tool.

Just like Bloom's taxonomy. It tells us that in English first we recount what we know, then we apply it to a situation, then we yadda yadda... Works a treat for any essay you want to write or any academic discussion you want to have. Works even for contemporary debate.


Mandarin is going to suck if everything has to be Yin/Yang. Step 1: make up artificial poles. Step 2: accuse the other person of following the wrong pole. Step 3: find the middle way. 

Why wouldn't Bloom's Taxonomy be valid for mandarin as well? 

These days I think discourse plays a very large role in language learning. How people organize their speech and what type of information they emphasize has an impact on how accessible "the language" is, I think. That's to say, practical experience of language use makes vocab and grammar work for a learner, but alien discourse types disconnect the learner from practical experience. I think this is one of the major issues facing English in China, and I think it probably has to also affect Mandarin for foreigners.

Or, to sum up, what I would really, really like in attempting to learn Chinese is an introduction to Chinese discourse types. Rather than learn from the bottom up - vocab, grammar, mysterious communicative exercise - I'd like to learn from the top down - how are people organizing their speech and what do they focus on.

It's dumb, but for English we have Bloom's Taxonomy, and for Mandarin we have.,,?

Why wouldn't Bloom's Taxonomy be valid for mandarin as well? 

If it (the cognitive domain one) were a taxonomy, and did classify types of cognition, then it would have to have some validity for mandarin or be itself invalid. It's not actually a taxonomy though. It's a developmental hierarchy of objectives. It doesn't say what cognition is, it describes what educated cognition should be capable of. As such, it's a culture-bound construct, and more akin to an identity than a scientific tool. It describes what Western-educated people, if pressed, might try to claim as their intellectual heritage.

It'll be valid of Mandarin to the extent that Chinese culture has or does subscribe to that same type of heritage.