Xuchang University, Henan: Any advice for a China First-Timer?

Hey Everybody,

This is my first post as I'm still searching for my first job in China. I was wondering if anyone has experience at Xuchang University in Henan. Having never been to the middle Kingdom and not speaking a word of Chinese, there isn't much info to be found on the old Google-matic.

I'm expecting HUGE culture shock and a degree of isolation until i pick up some of the lingo, but, basically, I don't want to end up getting screwed over by management. I understand that Chinese work and management practices will probably be totally alien to me. That's no problem, I'm flexible.  I just don't want to find out that, due to my initial naivety, I'm being screwed over once I've been in country for a few months.I got an offer of 5500 on 16 class/week contract.

I've already learned lots about job hunting in China from the boards.  It would be great if someone could advise about the school and/or the city.

Cheers!

I don't know the school but the offer is fine. Perhaps you could give more details of the contract and we could help you see if there are any pitfalls.

Welcome to The Saloon!

Yeah, give details and ask specific questions and we'll try to help.  You are unlikely to get "screwed over" at a tertiary education job (though it can happen) which is not to say there aren't other pitfalls.

BTW, I notice the Chinese name of this place seems to actually be "xǔchāng xuéyuàn" which more or less means "Xuchang College".  Now this in itself is nothing to worry about, it's fairly common practice to use artistic licence with translations here, but a xue yuan/college in a lower tier city is probably not going to have the most academically gifted students (again, nothing wrong with that, just better to go in with eyes open...some people get a bit star-struck with the 'uni' tag and are disappointed).

BTW, I notice the Chinese name of this place seems to actually be "xǔchāng xuéyuàn" which more or less means "Xuchang College".  Now this in itself is nothing to worry about, it's fairly common practice to use artistic licence with translations here, but a xue yuan/college in a lower tier city is probably not going to have the most academically gifted students (again, nothing wrong with that, just better to go in with eyes open...some people get a bit star-struck with the 'uni' tag and are disappointed).

I work at a xueyuan. My understanding is that the difference is that my 'Uni' can't offer any post-graduate qualifications.

The advantage of a xueyuan, at least mine, is that the students often come from the countryside, and are very motivated. I love my students. However, you may have students of low ability, and that can be a problem if you're not an experienced teacher, (by which I actually mean if you're not a good teacher).

However, it would probably be misguided to extrapolate across all Colleges based on mine. There are important things to consider such as whether there's a good curriculum and support structure in place. These may be influenced by the status of the Uni, but not necessarily.

Right, you're unlikely to get screwed over at a public college/university. Doesn't mean the job will be perfect, but the usual shenanigans you hear about are usually more common at private institutions.

Ask them about your accommodation, and ask to see pictures if possible.

Find out what sort of classes/students you'll be teaching, so you can prepare a bit before you come.

Find out what the deal is for winter and summer holiday. I'd say this is the most common pitfalls of a uni contract. Some unis will only give you partial pay for winter and summer vacation. Some will only offer 10 month contracts. Find out what happens if you decide you like it there and you want to stay another year. Can you keep your apartment? Get paid?

And, like the others said, if you give us more details we can help you more with the specifics.

 I work at a xueyuan. My understanding is that the difference is that my 'Uni' can't offer any post-graduate qualifications.

The advantage of a xueyuan, at least mine, is that the students often come from the countryside, and are very motivated. I love my students. However, you may have students of low ability, and that can be a problem if you're not an experienced teacher, (by which I actually mean if you're not a good teacher).

However, it would probably be misguided to extrapolate across all Colleges based on mine. There are important things to consider such as whether there's a good curriculum and support structure in place. These may be influenced by the status of the Uni, but not necessarily.

I too work at a xueyuan and agree with Just Like Mr Benn

Yeah my first China job was at a lower tier private xue yuan teaching "oral English".  It was a nice place to work, but the students were challenging at times.

There's a bit more discussion of different types of tertiary institution here:

http://raoulschinasaloon.com/index.php?topic=7011.msg130600#msg130600

Ok, Ok, I worked at Xuchang Xueyuan years ago.  It was fine, but yes there will be some culture shock.  The FAO has changed, I see, but when I was there, I was treated fairly and pay was on time, things got fixed if broken etc.  The apartments were just outside the campus (separated by a fence) in a modern (now 7+ years old) apartment complex (estate).  They were big and in good condition.  The East Campus is where you will live and I don't know if the original West Campus is even still around.  The students were perhaps my favorites in China, on the whole.  Mostly farmers kids who hadn't ventured out to anywhere except to Xuchang to go to university.  There were a couple of friendly Chinese teachers, but most of the teachers didn't seem to socialize any more than was contractually required, even with each other.  (That was years ago.)  The library construction was delayed a year or more because someone lost about a million RMB. 

The East campus was built on the outskirts of town (very flat, suitable for bicycling) with other major projects and six-lane arterial streets.  There was almost no traffic at that time, probably has built up by now.  Horse-drawn wagons competed with those blue mini-trucks belching black smoke, Mercedes Benz sedans, tuk-tuks, buses, and everything else.  Empty new construction everywhere. The bus was fairly convenient and it didn't take more than about 15 yuan by taxi to get into the heart of town. (Or a 40 minute walk).

The city itself is not much to look at, but has decent supermarkets (Pan Dong Lai was the biggest and only true supermarket at that time.) Canals run through and around with lovely lotuses (loti?) at times.  Locals range from sophisticated to the spittin', scratchin', helloooooin' yahoos you read about in China.  I remember a few unfriendly hellos but mainly they would hello to my face.  Most locals were friendly.  There were few foreigners (there's one more tech school with foreign teachers and some Indian (South Asian) business people. The city is just small enough to be able to wander the downtown in less than a day, but big enough to get lost in too.  Lots of good local food, especially if you like noodles.  Try the hui mian (broad noodle stew).  There's a couple of McD and KFCs around if you miss food you never ate at home. 

One advantage about Xuchang, if you get tired of the "small" Chinese city, is that it is on the main railway from Beijing to Guangzhou.  And now it's on the G-train line (the new station for express trains appears to be very near the campus).  So you can get away to Beijing or elsewhere conveniently if you need a break from feeling like you're in a fishbowl or want to shop for expensive groceries from home, etc.

Thanks for all the advice.  No contract as yet, its apparently 'being prepared'.  I imagine that means it needs a big rubber stamp from some bureaucrat. Perhaps the same guy who 'lost' the money for the library.   But they seem keen to get me on board as I have a CELTA and a few years experience in Korea.  Also, they've sent me an email address for a current teacher.  So hopefully she can sort out some up-to-date pics of accommodation etc.

Quote from: Just Like Mr Benn on June 15, 2013, 01:17:09 PM

The advantage of a xueyuan, at least mine, is that the students often come from the countryside, and are very motivated. I love my students. However, you may have students of low ability, and that can be a problem if you're not an experienced teacher, (by which I actually mean if you're not a good teacher).

Motivated countryside students would be ideal. I've dealt with too many students in the past with a sense of entitlement and no work ethic. Is grade fixing often an issue in Xueyuan?  I don't mind giving motivated students support, but i'm not interested in a job where the game is rigged.

One advantage about Xuchang, if you get tired of the "small" Chinese city, is that it is on the main railway from Beijing to Guangzhou.  And now it's on the G-train line (the new station for express trains appears to be very near the campus).  So you can get away to Beijing or elsewhere conveniently if you need a break from feeling like you're in a fishbowl or want to shop for expensive groceries from home, etc.

G-train sounds like a winner, about 3.5 hours to Beijing.  That's not bad at all.(http://www.beijingchina.net.cn/transportation/train/henan-xuchang.html)

There are important things to consider such as whether there's a good curriculum and support structure in place.

I'd kinda assumed that as a 'uni' there would be a relatively established curriculum to build on.  I'll need to check that out.  Can you explain what you mean by support structure? 

Find out what the deal is for winter and summer holiday. I'd say this is the most common pitfalls of a uni contract. Some unis will only give you partial pay for winter and summer vacation. Some will only offer 10 month contracts.

I get the impression its a 10/11 month contract.  Again, I've yet to see the contract.  I thought that this might be a point of negotiation if/when im approached about resigning.  If I'm worth keeping we could negotiate something to keep me on payroll over the summer while I cover some lucrative summer camps in Korea. Thats the plan anyway.  Has anyone successfully managed this in the past?

I'd kinda assumed that as a 'uni' there would be a relatively established curriculum to build on.

Heh, 'assuming' anything can be a big mistake in the Middle Kingdom  (a bit like Korea was in that respect from what I remember...)

It totally depends and varies from institution to institution.
 
At my first place I was assured there was a syllabus and ample resources, but when I actually got there I was slung in a room with 40 students and told "just tell them some jokes and funny stories"...no syllabus, no textbooks, nothing...

With your CELTA and experience you should be able to handle whatever they throw at you, but try and find out exactly what they expect you to teach but come prepared to have to wing it for a little while anyway.

Please read this link(s) first and don't teach there!

http://forums.eslcafe.com/job/viewtopic.php?t=35793

Maybe I didn't read everything right or I missed something, but other than the Master's person who seemed to be lied to, there really wasn't much out of the ordinary.

I would listen to Roadwalker over THEINTERNETS.

Anyways, OP have you heard anything back about your questions?

As I wrote, my experience was years ago, and I could tell by the contact information of their recent ads that the FAO I dealt with is not there, or at least the contact person.  And, I believe a year or two after I left, the fellow with the blog who wrote about his experiences there seemed to have a good time at Xuchang.  He had many blog entries, so that would tend to give his account some weight in my book.  Some were more WTF?-type entries, but some were "it's awesome here!"  But he didn't seem to be concerned with his teaching load or the condition of his apartment. 

Three years later the guy with the masters in lit was apparently lied to by a "Yang Yang" about his teaching prospects at the school. I don't remember a Yang Yang, but that doesn't mean s/he is not at the school.  A recruiter, perhaps? It's not clear that master lit guy had a contract with the school, but if his account is accurate, that sucks to be lied to about an important thing such as what you will be teaching.  And then a dirty apartment with bad equipment was offered.  Perhaps in the heat of anger at this Yang Yang person, he lashed out at the guy who wrote about having a good time teaching there three years prior.  But it makes me wonder what the whole story was when masters lit guy gratuitously insults awesome guy and the lack of academic credentials of the Yang Yang person.  It makes me question the complaints about how poor the apartment condition was, especially since I had lived there, albeit four or five years earlier. 

Bottom line, no one likes to be lied to, especially when you base a major decision on it.  But in China it will happen (either a lie or miscommunication or whatever)and you have to deal with it.  Real bottom line (just practicing before):  check with current teachers for current conditions, then cross your fingers. 

Just guessing, but it sounds like masters lit guy was being scammed by some kind of intermediary/recruiter who summarily dismissed a teacher who did not slide along with the "misunderstandings", and would therefore balk at future problems.