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Author Topic: e-Vehicles: how long until China bans cars?  (Read 2016 times)

Escaped Lunatic

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Re: e-Vehicles: how long until China bans cars?
« Reply #15 on: January 02, 2017, 01:27:08 AM »
Making all the golf carts electric would only be a small step, but at least it would result in electric outlets near more parking spaces.

Optimally, some US or European car maker would work out a long term tech licensing deal with one of China's big car companies.
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Calach Pfeffer

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Re: e-Vehicles: how long until China bans cars?
« Reply #16 on: January 02, 2017, 05:42:55 AM »
Optimally, some US or European car maker would work out a long term tech licensing deal with one of China's big car companies.

Ne-e-e-eve-e-e-e-rrr gonna happen. Car manufacturing is a long way from internet services, but for no good reason that I can make clear, I reckon the Alibaba/Tencent/Baidu development model is going to apply to e-cars. Mostly, I think, because the key in e-cars is battery tech. China never could reinvent the internal combustion engine the way it reinvented Facebook, MSN Messenger, Google, and Whatsapp because the technology was essentially mature in the rest of the world, and backed by heavily entrenched interests. Compared to petroleum and car manufacturing, internet stocks were weak sisters and ripe for being ripped off. And I speculate that technologies enabling long term electricity storage and which improve the range of e-vehicles are similarly weakly guarded. They barely exist and aren't entrenched at all. I saw an article the other day pointing out, for instance, that whole swathes of the US population don't even know that electric cars exist.

Maybe the fact it needs to be manufactured will help keep the tech global and the playing field level(ish). But finding out that suddenly there exist a protected set of China-centric companies that don't deal with the outside world is at least equally as likely.

IMO
There is little in history to support the proposition that China was indeed the centre of the Asian universe commanding deference among less civilised states around its periphery...

Escaped Lunatic

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Re: e-Vehicles: how long until China bans cars?
« Reply #17 on: January 03, 2017, 12:42:44 AM »
At this point, they'll be stuck buying imports and trying to reverse-engineer everything.  Licensing can happen, but the contracts have to be very carefully written.

As an alternative to licensing to manufacture locally, China could build the cars and buy the battery systems and charging systems from an overseas source.  Most cars are already assembled from parts subcontracted around the world, so this wouldn't exactly be a groundbreaking concept to either side of the bargain.  Imagine if Tesla's V3 (or V4) batteries and chargers were purchased by Chinese manufacturers.  China could become the largest producer of EVs within a year or two, and Tesla could make more money selling battery systems to China than it does selling cars around the world.
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Calach Pfeffer

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Re: e-Vehicles: how long until China bans cars?
« Reply #18 on: January 03, 2017, 04:55:09 AM »
Come to think of it, I'm pretty sure I saw an article recently claiming that in the near future electric car manufacturers will be allowed to operate in China without having to share their technology. Previously, and currently still, foreign car manufacturers can only operate in China as a joint venture. In this posited near future, e-car manufacturing won't have to have a Chinese partner. Sounds kind of revolutionary, so I might be getting the details wrong, but I think that was the gist.

But... if China's leadership wants electric vehicles and international companies are going to keep betting on petrol vehicles, then kinda sorta seems to me like leaving that technology on the table. One future, one I *might* bet on, looks like car companies outside China are going to turn around in a few years and find themselves out of this loop.

http://sustainability.thomsonreuters.com/2016/09/06/in-chinas-electric-car-boom-global-automakers-select-different-gear/


One assumption I'm making, which might be questionable, is that whatever battery and power tech does appear will find its way into Chinese hands whether it wants to be there or not. Maybe Chinese agents are not as super stealthy as all that, and maybe shanzhai is the only way these companies really can go, but ... wild leap... Baidu/Tencent/Alibaba are no long mere clones. If the gov really does push for e-tech and really does prop up these car companies until they make it.......
« Last Edit: January 03, 2017, 05:03:55 AM by Calach Pfeffer »
There is little in history to support the proposition that China was indeed the centre of the Asian universe commanding deference among less civilised states around its periphery...

Calach Pfeffer

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Re: e-Vehicles: how long until China bans cars?
« Reply #19 on: April 24, 2017, 02:06:34 AM »
China's quota threat charges up electric car market

China's electric-car market is already the world's biggest, but a government proposal to introduce "new energy" vehicle quotas for automakers is further charging it up.

With the threat of the measure looming, major manufacturers at the annual auto show in Shanghai are announcing big plans to boost their electric vehicle (EV) offerings in China.

Volvo has confirmed it will introduce its first 100-percent electric car in China in 2019, while Ford will market its first hybrid vehicle in early 2018 and envisions 70 percent of all Ford cars available in China will have electric options by 2025.

Industry players say the push could have a profound impact on the green-car sector, as resulting economies of scale bring down the costs of producing and buying such cars....
There is little in history to support the proposition that China was indeed the centre of the Asian universe commanding deference among less civilised states around its periphery...

Calach Pfeffer

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Re: e-Vehicles: how long until China bans cars?
« Reply #20 on: June 18, 2017, 06:34:27 AM »
China: 12% Electric Cars By 2020 … Or Else

Last week, Chinese Premier Li Keqiang met privately with German chancellor Angela Merkel to discuss China’s proposal to require all manufacturers to sell more so-called new energy vehicles. After the meeting, Merkel thought she had an agreement that would allow German companies that manufacture cars in China a little breathing room before complying with the new rules.

But a notification posted online this week by the Legislative Affairs Office, which reports to the Chinese cabinet, says otherwise. It indicates that all manufacturers will be required to generate EV credits that equal 8% of sales in 2018, 10% by 2019, and 12% by 2020. The rule applies to both foreign and domestic car makers.

The credits are computed based on the level of electrification of the cars produced. Fully electric cars earn more credits than plug-in hybrid cars, for example. Plug-in cars that go further on battery power alone are rewarded with more credits than cars that have more limited electric range....
There is little in history to support the proposition that China was indeed the centre of the Asian universe commanding deference among less civilised states around its periphery...

Escaped Lunatic

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Re: e-Vehicles: how long until China bans cars?
« Reply #21 on: June 23, 2017, 01:12:24 AM »
Great goals.  I hope they car manufacturers and sellers can meet (or exceed) them.
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Calach Pfeffer

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Re: e-Vehicles: how long until China bans cars?
« Reply #22 on: September 17, 2017, 02:21:13 AM »
China to ban production of petrol and diesel cars 'in the near future'

China, the world’s biggest vehicle market, is considering a ban on the production and sale of fossil fuel cars in a major boost to the production of electric vehicles as Beijing seeks to ease pollution.

The move would follow similar plans announced by France and Britain to outlaw the sale of petrol and diesel cars and vans from 2040 in order to clamp down on harmful emissions.

Xin Guobin, vice-minister of industry and information technology, told a forum in the northern city of Tianjin at the weekend that his ministry had started “relevant research” and was working on a timetable for China....




lol, moving to consider to think about researching some potential possibility
There is little in history to support the proposition that China was indeed the centre of the Asian universe commanding deference among less civilised states around its periphery...

Calach Pfeffer

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Re: e-Vehicles: how long until China bans cars?
« Reply #23 on: September 17, 2017, 02:27:12 AM »
Thing is, since I saw it mentioned somewhere I too have been wondering about the country's electricity infrastructure. The go-to question for electric vehicles is what about charging stations but frankly, what about the country's ability to supply electricity at all? I have in recent years been thinking, just from my immediately local point of view, that while the water supply infrastructure is showing signs of stress, the electricity has become largely reliable. That I think might change if and when the local and national grids have to start supporting more and more electrical vehicles.
There is little in history to support the proposition that China was indeed the centre of the Asian universe commanding deference among less civilised states around its periphery...

Escaped Lunatic

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Re: e-Vehicles: how long until China bans cars?
« Reply #24 on: September 26, 2017, 05:10:29 AM »
That's ok.  You can always set up a gasoline or diesel generator to charge up the electric car. ahahahahah
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Nolefan

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Re: e-Vehicles: how long until China bans cars?
« Reply #25 on: September 27, 2017, 05:37:12 PM »
e-vehicules are here and they're alive and well... that said, most of them are outside the realm of current laws and regulations. Said regulations are also not national. e-bikes are a clear example as they're all over the freaking place yet unregulated: In Beijing, only electric vehicles that go a maximum 20km/h are technically legal. yet, shops are selling all kinds that travel sometimes at speeds of 100km/h.. i shit you not! Silent fucking killers.

Banning fossil fuels? hell yeah. the grid is solid but the regulations are not in place! they need to find a way to make people accountable.
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