• Home
  • Search
    •  
  • Login
    • Username: Password:

      Did you miss your activation email?

Author Topic: Snowden  (Read 3781 times)

Stil

  • Barfly
  • *
  • Posts: 4800
    • ChangshaNotes
Re: Snowden
« Reply #15 on: December 16, 2013, 04:20:29 AM »
I don't feel the intent has ever changed, just the tech. So, this should really be no surprise to anyone. Governments will continue to try and gain as much information as they can. We give up information for convenience. Credit cards, bus passes, points cards, whatever. Most of us carry a device that pinpoints our location.

The laws mean nothing. In every age, laws are to appease the masses but easily ignored for 'the greater good'. When an excuse can allow for more draconian laws to be made/changed with some public support, they will be. 9/11, McCathry's witch hunt, WW2 Japanese internment, on and on and on.

Privacy is a fallacy. Everything you buy, everywhere you go, everyone you talk to not face-to-face is logged somewhere.

For me the interesting thing is the outrage. That people believe that their government would never do such a thing. Like leaving a diary on a table and thinking no one would ever take a look.

At least in China, people are under no such delusion.

If it came out that the NSA was doing this to everyone in the world except Americans, would it have bothered Americans much?

Day Dreamer

  • Barfly
  • *
  • Posts: 4430
Re: Snowden
« Reply #16 on: December 16, 2013, 04:37:31 AM »
We have seen the enemy and it is US! (us as in 'we', not United States but it works both ways)
For you to insult me, first I must value your opinion

Tree

  • Barfly
  • *
  • Posts: 727
  • This personal text is false.
Re: Snowden
« Reply #17 on: December 16, 2013, 05:33:09 AM »
I've got to toss my hat in with Stil on this one. It is highly probable that any interested party can get nearly any bit of information about any modern technology user. We trade our privacy for interconnectivity [hyphenate?]. Only the facade of freedom and privacy took a hit, and now that the cat is out of the bag as to /how/ most of these acts were performed, less powerful governments can use these to reverse engineer their own strategies. Now developing countries, as well as the larger ones, will know how to surreptitiously gather data.

TLDR: cat and mouse, the red queen, locks keep the honest out, etc.
The greatest and most important problems of life are all in a certain sense insoluble. They can never be solved, but only outgrown.
- Jung

Calach Pfeffer

  • Barfly
  • *
  • Posts: 7757
Re: Snowden
« Reply #18 on: December 16, 2013, 05:44:47 AM »
Privacy's an odd notion. I hope this doesn't come back to bite me on the arse, but the right to be left alone (which I very much value) doesn't seem to make as much sense as the right to manage your own affairs. In the case of online stuff, expecting people to not look at the identity you create (the digital footprint you leave behind) is, probably literally, contradictory. But expecting people to leave control of that information up to you is maybe more reasonable. You "own" it. It's for you to direct how it shall be used. Other people using it without permission is a violation.

Not that such a position would stop violations of "privacy", but it might codify the rights and responsibilities better.

» now with New and Endlessly Improving CV 4U  ٩( ᐛ )و

kitano

  • Barfly
  • *
  • Posts: 2516
    • Children of the Atom
Re: Snowden
« Reply #19 on: December 16, 2013, 06:25:52 AM »
I also think that we shouldn't be naive about Facebook, Google etc

They were invented by genius college kids as amazing ways to use the internet, but with the money and power they command there is no way that they could stay trustworthy. I'm always arguing with my brother about this haha, people always see these government programs as more sinister than private companies, but you can buy shares in them and noone knows who is buying the shares or what access you can get with a large stake etc

At least with governments there is a face, i bet when these internet giants have their shareholder meetings there will be some really dodgy plutocrats from Russia, China, UAE etc trying to get it to work for them

Stil

  • Barfly
  • *
  • Posts: 4800
    • ChangshaNotes
Re: Snowden
« Reply #20 on: December 16, 2013, 07:41:58 AM »
I also think that we shouldn't be naive about Facebook, Google etc

They were invented by genius college kids as amazing ways to use the internet, but with the money and power they command there is no way that they could stay trustworthy. I'm always arguing with my brother about this haha, people always see these government programs as more sinister than private companies, but you can buy shares in them and noone knows who is buying the shares or what access you can get with a large stake etc

At least with governments there is a face, i bet when these internet giants have their shareholder meetings there will be some really dodgy plutocrats from Russia, China, UAE etc trying to get it to work for them

I think the expectations are different.

We have been conditioned to mistrust large corporations and taught to respect authority. So finding out what Facebook or Google are doing doesn't hit as hard as what the NSA is doing because of some ridiculous belief that government is trying to what's good for us rather than just make money or gain power and keep control, and since we supposedly choose our government, we expect them to do as we wanted.


Other people using it without permission is a violation.

Not that such a position would stop violations of "privacy", but it might codify the rights and responsibilities better.


Of course it's a violation, but so what? The idea that it's a violation, so power wouldn't use it, is at best naive and codifying the rights and responsibilities better is just a pacifier. Those rights will be amended/adjusted/broken as power sees fit.

Calach Pfeffer

  • Barfly
  • *
  • Posts: 7757
Re: Snowden
« Reply #21 on: December 16, 2013, 11:50:28 AM »
I don't know that agency has totally to be abrogated. Empires rise and falls. Things change. The megacorps and the vested institutional interests have a lot of sway, but they don't have all of it.

ᕦ(ò_óˇ)ᕤ

» now with New and Endlessly Improving CV 4U  ٩( ᐛ )و

Day Dreamer

  • Barfly
  • *
  • Posts: 4430
Re: Snowden
« Reply #22 on: March 06, 2014, 01:16:27 PM »
Anything new as in is he going to bunk with Jimmy Hoffa?
For you to insult me, first I must value your opinion

Calach Pfeffer

  • Barfly
  • *
  • Posts: 7757
Re: Snowden
« Reply #23 on: March 19, 2014, 05:04:03 AM »


Left: Sergey Brin; Right: Edward Snowden (live via telepresence robot)

TED2014, Vancouver, Canada.

» now with New and Endlessly Improving CV 4U  ٩( ᐛ )و

Calach Pfeffer

  • Barfly
  • *
  • Posts: 7757
Re: Snowden
« Reply #24 on: August 14, 2014, 04:41:45 AM »

» now with New and Endlessly Improving CV 4U  ٩( ᐛ )و