• Home
  • Search
    •  
  • Login
    • Username: Password:

      Did you miss your activation email?

Author Topic: Guns  (Read 29780 times)

A-Train

  • Barfly
  • *
  • Posts: 1275
Re: Guns
« Reply #15 on: May 03, 2013, 05:57:55 PM »
Probably only partially understood your message at this late hour, but thought you said that the problem is cultural. Thought you might have said that eliminating the 2nd Amendment was the only way around that cultural barrier, but re-reading it tells me that part of my understanding was just confusion.

I assume that guns can be owned in a safe manner and should be allowed. Elimination would not be my goal. Responsible purchasing, training and selling, (and perhaps both tracking the weapons and using the technology that "fingerprints" a bullet to its firearm), should be enacted.  But, I don't believe guns should be banned.

The vast majority of people, including gun owners, want sound background checks. That doesn't sound like a cultural divide. The problem is that the political system is not venting the public pressure, but instead, bowing to the special interest pressure who, not coincidentally, have the money and the fanatics.
"The young do not know enough to be prudent, and therefore attempt the impossible and achieve it, generation after generation.

Pearl S. Buck

CWL

  • Barfly
  • *
  • Posts: 297
Re: Guns
« Reply #16 on: May 03, 2013, 11:29:33 PM »
What is American culture?  Maybe one can say that the U.S. has been slowly losing its "American Culture" since the beginning, if there ever was one. 

Personally, I think the U.S. has been losing its vision of its founding principles.

As far as culture is concerned, the U.S. is a conglomeration of subcultures, many of which do not share its founding principles. 

Change the culture??? 

Which culture(s)?

The Local Dialect

  • Global Moderator
  • *****
  • Posts: 3900
Re: Guns
« Reply #17 on: May 04, 2013, 12:47:12 AM »
Probably only partially understood your message at this late hour, but thought you said that the problem is cultural. Thought you might have said that eliminating the 2nd Amendment was the only way around that cultural barrier, but re-reading it tells me that part of my understanding was just confusion.

I assume that guns can be owned in a safe manner and should be allowed. Elimination would not be my goal. Responsible purchasing, training and selling, (and perhaps both tracking the weapons and using the technology that "fingerprints" a bullet to its firearm), should be enacted.  But, I don't believe guns should be banned.

The vast majority of people, including gun owners, want sound background checks. That doesn't sound like a cultural divide. The problem is that the political system is not venting the public pressure, but instead, bowing to the special interest pressure who, not coincidentally, have the money and the fanatics.

Ok, we definitely agree. I was also making the argument that we can't eliminate the 2nd amendment, it just won't happen. I think that if there hadn't been a second amendment in the first place, things would be different, but we have one and it isn't going anywhere, ever. I was addressing mostly to our European buddies in this thread, who tend to throw up their hands in exasperation at us Americans and our insistence on our rights.

I don't personally like guns, but I don't think that an outright ban is realistic or even the right thing to do. Working within the constitutional framework and enacting and enforcing strict gun control laws is an actual accomplishable goal.

The point I was making about culture is not that there's a cultural divide within America, it is that there's a cultural divide between the way Americans see guns and the way many non-Americans see guns. America, all of it, has gun culture. This is something that most Europeans, Australians, Chinese, don't understand. I have never owned a gun, never fired a gun, and probably never will, but if my country were to take away that right altogether, I would not be happy. That's (political) culture. If I'd grown up with different expectations regarding my rights, I likely wouldn't feel this way, but there it is.

A-Train

  • Barfly
  • *
  • Posts: 1275
Re: Guns
« Reply #18 on: May 04, 2013, 01:35:03 AM »

The vast majority of people, including gun owners, want sound background checks. That doesn't sound like a cultural divide. The problem is that the political system is not venting the public pressure, but instead, bowing to the special interest pressure who, not coincidentally, have the money and the fanatics.

Ok, we definitely agree. I was also making the argument that we can't eliminate the 2nd amendment, it just won't happen. I think that if there hadn't been a second amendment in the first place, things would be different, but we have one and it isn't going anywhere, ever. I was addressing mostly to our European buddies in this thread, who tend to throw up their hands in exasperation at us Americans and our insistence on our rights.

America, all of it, has gun culture. This is something that most Europeans, Australians, Chinese, don't understand. ... if my country were to take away that right altogether, I would not be happy. That's (political) culture. If I'd grown up with different expectations regarding my rights, I likely wouldn't feel this way, but there it is.

I think that's very relevant. Other countries have guns as an important part of their culture, but in the U.S. there are at least two big differences: one is that it is intertwined with The Constitution. This enlists the conservatives into the pro-gun cause whether they care about guns or not. For them The Constitution is tantamount to The Bible. Second is the huge rate of violent crime in The U.S. compared to Europe, Australia etc.  Who can blame anyone for shaking their his over the U.S.'s inability to connect the dots, let alone actually DO something about it.

Personally, I will lay down my life if anyone tries to repeal the 3rd Amendment:

"No Soldier shall, in time of peace be quartered in any house, without the consent of the Owner, nor in time of war, but in a manner to be prescribed by law."

Who wants some smelly, English soldier siting on your sofa ordering bangers and mash and watching Benny Hill all day?

"The young do not know enough to be prudent, and therefore attempt the impossible and achieve it, generation after generation.

Pearl S. Buck

caley1313

  • Barfly
  • *
  • Posts: 134
  • DH Allison, MBA, TESL
    • My Photo Gatherings
Re: Guns
« Reply #19 on: May 04, 2013, 01:45:03 AM »
Heh, Ya'll missing the point. It ain't got nothing to do with the Constitution and the 2nd Amendment, et all. It's all about the American Military Industrial Complex. We Yanks spend more (circa $900 billion) on our guns and accessories than the rest of the world combined. That's right: THE REST OF THE WORLD COMBINED. Be damned if we're gonna have a two-year old girl killing in Kentucky get in the way of the bigger picture. And it's people that kill people; not guns. Also, if we weren't protecting ya'll from your neighbors and each other, who would? Heeee, Hawwwww
Carpe Diem, mi amigo, or...Seize the Big Fish as they say here in Carolina

Escaped Lunatic

  • Global Moderator
  • *****
  • Posts: 10022
  • Finding new ways to conquer the world
    • EscapedLunatic.com
Re: Guns
« Reply #20 on: May 04, 2013, 02:28:27 AM »
Any chance we can get Mattel to start producing a hot pink Barbie Bazooka?  ahahahahah

I'm pro-cloning and we vote!               Why isn't this card colored green?
EscapedLunatic.com

A-Train

  • Barfly
  • *
  • Posts: 1275
Re: Guns
« Reply #21 on: May 04, 2013, 02:35:35 AM »
Any chance we can get Mattel to start producing a hot pink Barbie Bazooka?  ahahahahah



True story. Many years back when super-soakers were just getting popular, there was a string of killings because some kids in ghettos were accidentally soaking gangstas and were, in turn, getting shot dead by the criminals in retaliation. 

So the government swooped into action by outlawing..........the super-soakers
"The young do not know enough to be prudent, and therefore attempt the impossible and achieve it, generation after generation.

Pearl S. Buck

Guangzhou Writer

  • Barfly
  • *
  • Posts: 703
  • Can using chopsticks
Re: Guns
« Reply #22 on: May 04, 2013, 03:16:21 AM »
Well, come on. It's not against the law to be a criminal.

Day Dreamer

  • Barfly
  • *
  • Posts: 4430
Re: Guns
« Reply #23 on: May 04, 2013, 03:26:33 AM »
if we weren't protecting ya'll from your neighbors and each other, who would? Heeee, Hawwwww

Yup and you're also the one killing our neighbors and each other
For you to insult me, first I must value your opinion

latefordinner

  • Barfly
  • *
  • Posts: 2378
Re: Guns
« Reply #24 on: May 04, 2013, 05:07:05 AM »
Quote
Also, if we weren't protecting ya'll from your neighbors and each other, who would? Heeee, Hawwwww

"We have met the enemy and he is us" -Walt Kelly (in a different context, to be sure)

kitano

  • Barfly
  • *
  • Posts: 2518
    • Children of the Atom
Re: Guns
« Reply #25 on: May 04, 2013, 05:17:56 AM »
I think the cultural aspect is very very important and is often overlooked. The anti-gun people often overlook the fact that the US isn't the only rich country with relaxed gun laws. Canadians can buy guns pretty easily and over in Europe a lot of the central and eastern countries have pretty relaxed gun laws without the same problems as in the US.
Scandinavia has very high gun ownership but they very rarely use them on each other

It's another long discussion as to WHY Americans like shooting each other so much but I don't think it's just to do with the right to bear arms.

Day Dreamer

  • Barfly
  • *
  • Posts: 4430
Re: Guns
« Reply #26 on: May 04, 2013, 06:35:18 AM »
Canadians can buy guns pretty easily

Really, where did you hear this?
For you to insult me, first I must value your opinion

kitano

  • Barfly
  • *
  • Posts: 2518
    • Children of the Atom
Re: Guns
« Reply #27 on: May 04, 2013, 07:02:53 AM »
Canadians can buy guns pretty easily

Really, where did you hear this?

A Canadian guy I knew was into his guns...definitely sounds easier to get guns than England (although we're one of the strictest)

A-Train

  • Barfly
  • *
  • Posts: 1275
Re: Guns
« Reply #28 on: May 04, 2013, 07:23:19 AM »
Canadians can buy guns pretty easily...


Just walk south 'til you hit the border.  I think they will issue you one for free soon.
"The young do not know enough to be prudent, and therefore attempt the impossible and achieve it, generation after generation.

Pearl S. Buck

becster79

  • Barfly
  • *
  • Posts: 1678
Re: Guns
« Reply #29 on: May 04, 2013, 10:22:24 AM »
All simple really- why the hell does an average person need a gun? It seems to be some power thing. It's not a weapon, it's a killing tool, plain and simple. You use a gun simply with the aim to kill what's in front of you.

What kind of normal person would want one of these, unless they were some psychopath in need of some kind of "control" over other's lives? I have not heard one normal reason justifying why anyone other than police or military need a gun.

Makes me sick.
10 easy steps to stop procrastination.

1.