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May 22, 2013, 06:48:36 PM
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Author Topic: The paradox of foreign education  (Read 656 times)
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fox
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« on: August 02, 2012, 04:09:47 PM »

I've  noticed over recent years the numbers of students enrolling into the study overseas program at our school is dwindling. I couldnt figure out why this may be the case until i read this article.   

Has anyone else experienced this decline in interest?


http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-19076873

There was a time when Chinese students who obtained higher education abroad were considered to be the most fortunate of their generation.

After graduating from elite universities in the US and Britain, they were virtually guaranteed the best career prospects upon their return.

Those students were colloquially referred to as sea turtles - returning home with the world on their backs.

But things are different now.

These very students are now referred to as seaweed - washed up on the shore, with little or no prospect of finding work once they return home.

Shift in priorities
So why are foreign education qualifications not valued as highly as they once were?

"The reason employers valued them in the past has probably changed," says the regional director of the specialist recruitment company Hays.

According to Simon Lance, the main turning point centres around speaking another language.

"Previously, studying abroad brought with it some very strong language skills," he says.

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I wanted to see what was going on outside of China, to see more and learn about other cultures”

Ivy Wang
Former UK university student
But Chinese universities have come a long way in the past decade in the teaching of languages, and the skills obtained abroad are therefore less crucial.

Some people question whether it now makes sense to seek education abroad.

"If the expectation is that the qualification itself will automatically guarantee a high-paying job, then the answer is no," says Mr Lance.

"But as part of a long-term career plan with a multinational company then it is a very good starting point," he says.

However, Mr Lance also suggests any graduate studying abroad should seek work experience overseas as well.

"That would give them a much better competitive advantage when they return to China as opposed to just having the qualification itself," he says.

Debt burden
Ivy Wang went to Loughborough University for a masters degree in media and cultural analysis.

"I wanted to see what was going on outside of China, to see more and learn about other cultures," she says. "And I also wanted to improve my English."


Analysts expect China's unemployment rates to rise as economic growth slows
It cost her family about £30,000 ($47,000) to send her to the UK to finish her education.

When she returned to China, she sent out her CV, and managed to get 20 job interviews, mainly with travel companies and educational institutions.

There are jobs everywhere in China, she says, but the wages are "not satisfying".

She was offered a salary of between $500 and $1,000 per month and half of that would be spent on renting a single room.

"Chinese employers know exactly who they want - someone who will do as they are told but not for much money," Ms Wang says.

"I work for a Swiss company now.

"Working for a foreign company means I can explain what I have done and what I have achieved, whereas with a Chinese company I have to be really quiet.

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Having independent thought or being a little bit feisty is probably quite valued by a lot of multinational employers”

Simon Lance
Hays Recruitment
"China wants to broaden its strategy and have people who speak English or have a foreign education background, but at the same time they really want to control those people easily," she says.

It will take Ms Wang a decade to pay back her debts, but she says her family wants her to have a happy life rather than a stressful one.

Changing structure
It has been suggested that employers might regard people educated abroad as having a feisty attitude - that they would not be the pliant employee they were seeking.

But Mr Lance at the Hays recruitment agency says the opposite would be true in some circumstances.

"It would suit the management style and culture of a multinational company very well," he says.

"Having independent thought or being a little bit feisty is probably quite valued by a lot of multinational employers."

But Mr Lance adds that local qualifications when applying for positions with local companies could well be more of an advantage.

China is adapting from the stack-them-high and sell-them-cheap culture into something more innovative and consumer driven.


Graduates leave Chinese universities better equipped now than they did a decade previously
"There is definitely a state of flux at the moment. The culture shift within employers and employees is quite difficult at the moment," Mr Lance says.

"A lot of companies realise they need candidates with international skills and international experience, but they have not yet adapted their culture to attract or retain those types of people," he says.

Some companies are managing the cultural adaptation better than others.

"There is a shift from a very hierarchical structure towards a more flexible Western structure, where the salary you are paid and the promotions you achieve and the progression you might expect in your career is driven more by ability or merit rather than the years served," Mr Lance says.

"In the banking and finance sectors there are many examples of Chinese owned and operated banks actively seeking out senior and mid-level managerial staff that have a Western approach.

"That is driven by banks which are starting to expand out of China and looking at international markets."

Seaweed gathering on the shores might not deter other students from studying abroad, although with Chinese universities rising to the challenge of doing business in the 21st Century, they might face less pressure to become turtles.
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kitano
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« Reply #1 on: August 02, 2012, 04:59:39 PM »

I think this definitely needs to be taken with a pinch of salt

Going abroad and getting a degree doesn't guarantee Chinese students a great job any more, and yes they do run a big risk of being incredibly frustrated and under valued because the skills that they gained from going abroad are not respected in the Chinese marketplace

BUT

I think this is more down to the fact that there are now so many millions of Chinese middle class kids graduating with expensive educations, that Ivy Wang graduated with Media Studies from Loughborough University which is a long way from any kind of top flight employment.
Just like there was that thread on here about how we are not anything special in China nowadays with our foreign educations and so on, the same applies to Chinese people.
I can't think of the word for what there is an element of lol. Imagine 10 years ago, an educated westerner in China or a western educated Chinese person was quite exceptional, but now it's really not at all. Of course anyone who graduated from Oxford or something will still do well, but not some bog standard university
For Chinese people especially there is also the factor to consider that in those days you probably needed to be in a fairly powerful social sphere to have the opportunity to go to study abroad which would also help you when you graduated and needed a job

Having said that, the article goes on to say that Ivy Wang got a job with a Swiss company that values her input as well so it doesn't sound so terrible (plus she was featured in a BBC article...)
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jpd01
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« Reply #2 on: August 02, 2012, 05:57:04 PM »

I can't say that I've seen a decline in our overseas preparation program at all. The number of students studying that have plans to go abroad at our school makes up around about 2/3 of the student population. The last time my wife sent out her CV she had a number of good leads to well paying jobs in Beijing. But she has a great work history in the UK, that's something that's lacking in most applicants I think. I think a lot of Chinese go overseas with the intention of trying to work after school but end up just hanging out with other Chinese students and their skills and language abilities (as well as meeting locals) doesn't seem to go very far.
Most of our students want to work for a foreign company either abroad or when they return to China.
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The Local Dialect
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« Reply #3 on: August 02, 2012, 07:00:19 PM »

No way. Overseas education is on the rise, it is just that students are getting more picky about where they go. All of my students want to go to top universities in the USA. The days when you could go to New Zealand or somewhere and come back with an "overseas" degree to impress your future employers are gone. Everything is more competitive. The kids are savvy. They want the top 20, preferably Ivy Leagues, and not some language program associated with a 2nd tier Canadian university.

I think there's a change in demographics. Studying abroad used to be for the students who couldn't cut it on the gaokao but now many of the best students are choosing to forgo the gaokao and head straight for top tier schools in the USA and the UK.

We saw a HUGE surge in interest over the last 2 years with students headed for America. It used to be that SAT classes were extremely niche, but now everyone is taking them. They're doing full courses of APs, SAT I and IIs, summer internships, extracurriculars, anything to get an edge. It is very competitive, but I'd say more good students are going abroad now than ever before.
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bobrage
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« Reply #4 on: August 03, 2012, 12:55:03 AM »

I think the relative fortunes of overseas returnees is something which gets amplified and distorted by the combined echo chamber of the "Chinese internet" and the media.

There has always been an undercurrent of jealousy/resentment about studying or working abroad from a section of the Chinese population ("turtle" is not a pleasant word in Mandarin after all).  Alot of nonsense is also written about the job prospects of Chinese graduates.  When you get down to the bottom line, if you can't find a job in the world's fastest growing economy then you aren't looking hard enough (or have never been taught how to look *cough*complete lack of life skills in the Chinese curriculum*cough*).

The increasing number of international partnerships, articulation agreements and overseas campus which UK and US universities have been pursuing over the past ten years is concrete evidence that there remains a huge demand for education abroad.

Sure, there are contrapuntal forces, China's increasing individual wealth (people can pay international fees) is matched by a growing social wealth (Chinese universities are becoming better and expectations about what they do are slowly changing) and this is providing a little domestic competition in the "gold standard" bracket.  The British Council predicts that fewer students from the "traditional" supplier countries are going to be studying abroad in future for exactly this reason. However, as others have pointed out, I don't think this has started to bite yet.   
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gonzo
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« Reply #5 on: August 03, 2012, 02:24:20 AM »

I'd agree with some things above. But the simple statistical fact is that per capita, i.e, based on the population of the target country, Australia attracts more Chinese, and dare I say international fee paying students per se, than any other English speaking country. With 23 million people we are third overall, behind the US with a population base of 300 million, and the UK. One in five tertiary students in Australia are fee payers from off-shore, with 20% being Chinese and 12% Indian [source Australian Bureau of Statistics census figures 2011]. As a post-graduate linguistics student I can anecdotally support this, although I'd have thought 20% was too low.

It is true that 2011 Chinese enrolments levelled off for the first time after many years of strong growth, but other nationalities stepped up to fill the void. There was also a shift from undergraduate to post-graduate enrolments. Research into this shift points to much improved domestic Chinese tertiary education, the availability of highly rated foreign university courses within China and the cooling of their economy as three significant reasons. Revisiting the two universities I taught at over an eight year time span [1997-2004] and talking to department heads, supports the first of these points. More places, better facilities, better teaching and more in tune courses are all apparent.

I doubt if 20% 0f 20% [i.e., 4%] of US places are taken by Chinese students. With a long involvement with high school aged Chinese here in Australia, I know that safety and environment were key factors in their parents' choices. The perception many Chinese have, based on media reporting, of the US is that it is a violent and unpredictable place. But that's a separate issue.
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Fozzwaldus
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« Reply #6 on: August 03, 2012, 08:36:49 AM »

good points here people

just to add that I agree with TLD in that the Chinese (in almost every way) have become very discerning very quickly, and this includes how they view foreign unis, and also how they view returnees

I recently did student recruitment for the foreign uni (with a campus in China) for which I work, and demand was OFF THE HOOK - and this is not for students who failed the gaokao, we only accept top level gaokao students.

what was interesting is the amount of students whose parents are involved in Chinese 2nd and 3rd level education, and who want something different for their kids

there were also tv reports of students who got accepted to top-5 unis but chose our place instead - not only for the study abroad options, but also 'student experience' (societies/volunteer work/internships) aspects which are increasingly important for middle-class Chinese kids, and employers
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bobrage
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« Reply #7 on: August 03, 2012, 09:48:15 AM »

What was interesting is the amount of students whose parents are involved in Chinese 2nd and 3rd level education, and who want something different for their kids

I used to work in a Uni. which had a partnership agreement with Iowa State University and some of the FAO and English department staff had been there at various times.  I am not knocking Iowa, but I must admit it was a little strange to hear these guys talk about how totally wonderful it was there. One of the other teachers managed to get a visiting scholar place at Aberdeen University - having a desk in a 200 year old building blew her mind. 

What about the split between undergraduate and postgraduate markets?  Traditionally China used to be a solid provider of postgraduate applicants but now more and more UK universities are getting comfortable with recruiting undergraduates in decent numbers too.  If I had to pin my colours to the mast I would bet that we are going to see a slide back to a postgraduate dominated market: people "finishing" their education in the US, UK or Australia and pick up those valuable professional skills which have hitherto been absent from their lives. 

Postgraduate degrees in China remain very much academically focused and I am honestly unsure whether they are more valuable to an employer than 3 year of relevant experience. 

Regardless, all of these new programs and agreements mean that there will be exciting times for well qualified English teachers in China for a good while yet.               
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