next »

[MK]

if one can speak any amount of Chinese people will speak back to you in Chinese (once again, based off a mere two day exp).

Not always!

http://www.sinosplice.com/life/archives/2003/04/13/english-only-please-this-is-china

I try and use Chinese in my daily life here in Shanghai, but I fairly often meet locals who are determined to speak English to me no matter what, even when their English is pretty poor (e.g. I'll be speaking whole sentences of Chinese and they'll be spitting back one word English responses at me).

Some people never have this experience, or it just doesn't bother them, but it's one of my bugbears as a Chinese language learner!

[kitano]

Sorry I disagree with a lot of this

I mean like other people said it's not a massive problem in the short term, but living here for years just every time I go anywhere I do get stared at and treated differently, nothing to do with the language, on my bike and so on I could speak like a local but it wouldn't stop me getting this

And the 'Hello' and 'Laowai' is racism, of course it is. This is a thing that is bugging me at the moment and I know that it comes and goes for some reason but a lot of the time it is people doing it to make you feel uncomfortable or to laugh at you, nothing friendly about it at all

It's not a big problem if you are here for a short time re: ken's question, but if you decide to live here for a few years I think it's a very racist society. everywhere is I guess, of course a lot of people are sound but there will always be someone to remind you that you are a minority every time you leave the house without fail

[Just Like Mr Benn]

When I go back I will be meeting the girlfriend's parents and cousin, and I know that I'm starting at a huge disadvantage, because they're starting from the viewpoint that I'm an unreliable, sex-obsessed barbarian. I know this because that's where my girlfriend started from.

At the moment my (Chinese female) friend is having big problems with her family because she made the mistake of taking her foreign boyfriend home. Her folks are now demanding that she end the relationship and find a rich, Chinese man to marry.

Both these women are from traditional, Chinese villages. Of course, some families are going to be more foreign-friendly. However, with rural village folk; get ready for some serious discrimination.

I completely understand my girlfriend's parents' potential reaction. They don't speak English (so I'm making a big effort to learn Mandarin quickly this summer) and I'm going to be a big unknown. I've met her father and he seems like a really nice bloke, as far as I can tell from not being able to have any conversation with him beyond saying hello.

I'm lucky. My gf's parents will probably give me a chance, and to be honest I knew that overcoming a wee bit of discrmination was part of the deal when I met my gf. To overcome it, all I have to do is treat her well and be a good guy.  I do perceive it as racism, but I know that I'm getting a fairly harmless strand of it.

[babala]

I actually think Chinese treat foreigners better than we treat foreigners in our own countries. I can remember numerous times witnessing random people yelling at people talking to each other in their own language "This is Canada! Why don't you learn English!" The people at the time weren't even talking to the person, simply to each other. I think of how angry people get when the person they are speaking to can't communicate. I find many Chinese people are very patient with us and spend a lot of time trying to understand what we are saying.

Now if you have some kind of dispute, the crowd will almost always support the Chinese person but again I doubt it would be different in our countries.

[kitano]

I actually think Chinese treat foreigners better than we treat foreigners in our own countries. I can remember numerous times witnessing random people yelling at people talking to each other in their own language "This is Canada! Why don't you learn English!" The people at the time weren't even talking to the person, simply to each other. I think of how angry people get when the person they are speaking to can't communicate. I find many Chinese people are very patient with us and spend a lot of time trying to understand what we are saying.

Now if you have some kind of dispute, the crowd will almost always support the Chinese person but again I doubt it would be different in our countries.

I've never seen anyone yell 'Ni hao' at a Chinese person to make them and their friends piss themselves laughing. When we lived in Holland my girlfriend got 'Ni Hao'd by Turkish blokes a couple of times, but that seemed more like sexual harassment
If there was a fight between a white person and a Chinese person in England no way would white people walking nearby jump in against the Chinese guy based on skin colour

England still has a lot of problems with racism but it's nothing like China, it's illegal to shout racial stuff at strangers in England....

[mustachioed-ken]

Yeah, Kitano makes some good points. It'd be UN-PC for white people (except rednecks) to just take the white guys side, just cause he's white. Although, Kitano, what if (in China) you were to get into a street hiccup, you being an innocent, sort of baby face demeanor character and the other (Chinese) character being an angry, old crusty?

But some mixed feelings observed. It seems like a very UN-PC, bizarre, hillarious/frightening racism brought about by obvious environmental factors (the old 'we're less than 0.nothing% of their population' factor.) 

Kitano, how often do you get the 'hallo!' followed by laughter thing? And what happens if you then approach the person and start a conversation with them in mandarin (or English)? Also, is it ever girls or is it just old drunk gents hanging out on benches, etc? Do you get it on the train? Or is it just like dead silent and awkward? (GO THE JAPAN!)

And how often do you get general curiosity about your foreigness? And does it become rather daunting just going into shops by yourself? Like 'Fuck. I'd like to go shopping BUT I bet every person will laugh at me and grab every neighbor and family member in the vicinity, rattling away in fast, colloquial mandarin that a strange whitey is buying Chinese comic books' etc?

[babala]

In smaller towns where the population is predominately of one race and they see someone from another race you can count on the fact that the person would be stared at and made fun of (maybe not directly to their face but behind their back).

I hate the stupid "HELLOS" also but what I don't find as much here is the open level of hostility towards us. I find Chinese people almost always willing to help me. If I ask a Chinese person where something is they will usually take the time to personally take me there. I think they treat us better in these situations than they treat each other.

[mustachioed-ken]

Woah. My God. This is bizarrely complex. I wonder, how many would stare and make (in a small town) - all of them?

[fullricebowl]

And how often do you get general curiosity about your foreigness? And does it become rather daunting just going into shops by yourself? Like 'Fuck. I'd like to go shopping BUT I bet every person will laugh at me and grab every neighbor and family member in the vicinity, rattling away in fast, colloquial mandarin that a strange whitey is buying Chinese comic books' etc?

Honestly, I felt that way quite a bit when I lived in a smaller town. Walk into a grocery store downtown and people would follow you around looking at stuff in your basket. You'd ask a salesperson where something was in Chinese and all the people around would lean in to hear what you were saying. I hated it. Absolutely hated it because sometimes you just want to be a person not a foreign oddity. That's what I like best about living in bigger cities- there is actually somewhat of a sense of just being a person instead of a foreigner.

Seeing as I don't have to deal with it as regularly, the "hellos" & "laowais" annoy me a lot more when they do. To be perfectly honest, everyone seemed really nice when I first arrived here- and the longer I'm here and the more I understand, the less nice people are becoming.

There's only one time I remember where a random guy was openly hostile towards me, as a foreigner. I was just walking down the street, he was on the other side and started screaming at me and aggressively running at me. His girlfriend or whoever he was with was holding him back and encouraging him to calm down. Again, this was in the small town.

[kitano]

Yeah, Kitano makes some good points. It'd be UN-PC for white people (except rednecks) to just take the white guys side, just cause he's white. Although, Kitano, what if (in China) you were to get into a street hiccup, you being an innocent, sort of baby face demeanor character and the other (Chinese) character being an angry, old crusty?

But some mixed feelings observed. It seems like a very UN-PC, bizarre, hillarious/frightening racism brought about by obvious environmental factors (the old 'we're less than 0.nothing% of their population' factor.) 

Kitano, how often do you get the 'hallo!' followed by laughter thing? And what happens if you then approach the person and start a conversation with them in mandarin (or English)? Also, is it ever girls or is it just old drunk gents hanging out on benches, etc? Do you get it on the train? Or is it just like dead silent and awkward? (GO THE JAPAN!)

And how often do you get general curiosity about your foreigness? And does it become rather daunting just going into shops by yourself? Like 'Fuck. I'd like to go shopping BUT I bet every person will laugh at me and grab every neighbor and family member in the vicinity, rattling away in fast, colloquial mandarin that a strange whitey is buying Chinese comic books' etc?

If I got into any trouble with anyone in China I'd not fight them at all. It isn't totally extreme, Chinese people can't just attack foreigners with impunity, and they don't tend to start fights for no reason in the same way westerners sometimes do, but as a rule I'd guess the Chinese would side with the Chinese guy
It's not a big issue, I've only lived in fairly rich cities but I've never had the feeling anyone wanted to punch me, I'm sure people do...

re: the curiosity thing, pretty much what fullricebowl said, I mean of course if you live in a small town off the beaten track then everyone will be interested in the foreigner, same as anywhere in the world, and my experience there people usually are actually interested, likewise with kids and old people I don't mind since even if they live in a big city they probably don't get to leave their neighbourhood much so when they go to the city they probably are a bit like 'ooooh a foreigner!' but for example I live in Hangzhou which is a massive city full of foreigners, it's not that situation where you see someone else foreign and talk to them, so it's the same for Chinese adults, they aren't curious it's just a joke at your expense to shout something at you. A bit like my girlfriend getting 'Ni Hao?' in Holland, the Turkish lads weren't interested in her culture....

This touches on another thing about the thing you said about 'resentment'. A lot of Chinese middle class are really rich, a lot of these young people who are doing this have all Nike clothes and cars and they are only about 20. My parents didn't buy me a car and designer clothes when I was 20

This is turning into a rant, I really love living here most of the time, I meet so many cool Chinese people whenever I make the effort and even if I don't then I have to work and I like about 70% of the students and I've never been racially abused (to my face lol)

It is a thing though, it's not a big cauldron of racial hate lol. Again what ricebowl said, it doesn't affect you unless you want to really live here for a long time...

[BrandeX]

Per above, in the states people get angry if you can't speak English. Here, however, I believe people do not think any foreigner could possibly be capable of speaking Chinese. (Although it could be amazing if they do!)

[mustachioed-ken]

Not a big cauldron of racial hate but something which can kind of have an effect after a while - thank you, sounds like a realistic summation.

As a coping method, I am planning to download the song/jingle you hear delivered with the punchline at the end of every episode of 'Curb of your enthusiasm' and if something is to go wrong, to play it out loud via my iPod speaker. Maybe a laugh track/ applause to hold up to the face of anyone laughing at me.

[babala]

I find it's your attitude also. If you go in looking and expecting racism then that will effect the way you view others actions or attitudes. I have my bad days when people drive me nuts but I find if you approach people in a positive way then that is how the situation will turn out.

[Fozzwaldus]

I find it's your attitude also. If you go in looking and expecting racism then that will effect the way you view others actions or attitudes. I have my bad days when people drive me nuts but I find if you approach people in a positive way then that is how the situation will turn out.

that's totally true, we all have our 'bad China days', but I find that stepping back and trying to think objectively usually makes situations seem a lot less unreasonable.

[kitano]

That's also true. Quite a few times I'll catch myself getting angry with China and then remembering that I hated supermarkets/traffic etc in England as well and living in a city is just stress whoever you are

I was thinking about it today Chinese people are generally friendly to foreigners in my experience, I was just disagreeing with the 'Hello's being friendly. A lot of the time it is just people being dicks to you. I wouldn't fell comfortable calling it 'racist abuse' because that implies really serious stuff, but it's not always meant hospitably....