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[zero]

There might be an auto mechanic shop near my house that I believe cheats and overcharges, but I'm not on the Internet telling people about it.

Why in the world not??  Don't assume everyone in the world is just like you. 

I was recently charged $4.95 for an ebook on Kobo.com that they didn't have.  I asked twice for either a refund or the book, once by e-mail and once by a long-distance telephone call.  After a month, I filed a complaint with the Attorney General's office and wrote a thorough warning about this company on the internet.

Pete

Let me say it another way. There are many unethical businesses in the world. There are many dishonest websites, including, I would imagine, quite a few in the China ESL industry. Why do you choose to expose this one? Sounds like narcissistic injury to me. In other words, less like freedom-fighting, and more like a personal vendetta.

[Raoul F. Duke]

Meanwhile, the fact that we just had an attempted membership signup from "another person" who just haaaaapened to see the mention of the website and person in question and wanted to add to the negative comments, and who just haaaaapened to share an IP address with "Pumped", is most revealing and certainly doesn't help the case any.

[Stil]

My website is called Changsha Notes. I have to admit that there are not really any notes on it and not everything on it is about Changsha.

Do you think Pumped will come after me next?
                                                                               
                                                                             

[George]

Do you think Pumped will come after me next?

Sure to! You are a prime example of a Big Shot!!

[Escaped Lunatic]

I feel I must confess that my name is not correct before Pumped exposes me for fraud.  I'm not an escaped lunatic - because I've never been caught.

Meanwhile, the fact that we just had an attempted membership signup from "another person" who just haaaaapened to see the mention of the website and person in question and wanted to add to the negative comments, and who just haaaaapened to share an IP address with "Pumped", is most revealing and certainly doesn't help the case any.

I'm sure that someone sharing the exact same concerns as Pumped and the exact same IP as Pumped is just a complete and total coincidence.  IP addresses naturally tend to migrate to people with similar issues.

[AMonk]

Inflated egos and the making of false claims or excessive braggadocio are irritating at most any time and in most any country you can name.  The fact that you started to "name names" and to point out one (apparently) glaring example from your Chinese experience has been ...  ... unfortunate.

Pumped, Nathan: you both obviously feel very passionate about this.  However, I am being reminded more and more of the flogging of dead equines.

Pumped, I have enjoyed your Posts.  They are well-written and lucid.  However, I am becoming a little wearied of this particular Topic.  I would really like to see what you think about other matters.  Please will you leave this Thread, and start adding your insight in other Topic areas?

Nathan, I know that you feel you have been maligned.  You deserved to have your say, and you have done so.  But your slinging of arrows in return is also becoming wearisome. I ask you, too - Please will you leave this Thread, and start adding your insight in other Topic areas?

Thank you.

 

[The Local Dialect]

Pumped, I also don't necessarily think you're in the wrong here. Several people have stated that. It is just that the vendetta against this particular site of Nathan's seems a bit overblown, when compared to all of the truly heinous lies that are told, more often than not, by schools and recruiters rather than other expats. I am also willing to believe that there is more backstory here that most of us are not really privy to.

For the record, I don't really think it is cool for someone with fairly limited in-country and teaching experience to go around making claims about being the number one source of China information or whathaveyou. But this is the internet and that's sort of par for the course. Critical readers will be able to figure out the truth about a site fairly quickly.

I did enjoy your first few posts when we were talking about the issue in general. It is just that when it became personal the whole thing started to seem a bit distasteful. I hope you'll stick around (minus sockpuppet shenanigans) and contribute on other topics.

[Nathan Ryan]

Nathan, I know that you feel you have been maligned.  You deserved to have your say, and you have done so.  But your slinging of arrows in return is also becoming wearisome. I ask you, too - Please will you leave this Thread, and start adding your insight in other Topic areas?

Did you actually read this thread? Which arrows have I slung? I am simply defending my website from a former disgruntled member who is trying to cause me trouble. I have NOT personally attacked him. In fact, I have ignored him.

Did you see Raoul's latest post? The guy is trying to sign up with multiple user names to say more negative things about me and my website. He's obsessed with me and my websites and he'll continue to badmouth me anyway he can until someone puts a stop to it.

So excuse me for continuing to respond to people here who think that he has a legitimate complaint against me.

[Nathan Ryan]

For the record, I don't really think it is cool for someone with fairly limited in-country and teaching experience to go around making claims about being the number one source of China information or whathaveyou. But this is the internet and that's sort of par for the course. Critical readers will be able to figure out the truth about a site fairly quickly.

Was it really such a bad thing for me to use "Your #1 source for information about teaching in China" as my slogan? Do you really find that so uncool? I can't believe that anyone would make a big deal about that. So what? If I was LYING to teachers on my website or feeding them BAD information then yes, using a slogan like that would be bad.

It's just a SLOGAN!

But NO ONE on this forum (including Pumped) have produced any false or misleading information being given from my website. The attack has been on what I named my website (the China Teaching Web) and the fact that I listed some 'irrelevant' (but true) information about my experience in radio.

I did enjoy your first few posts when we were talking about the issue in general. It is just that when it became personal the whole thing started to seem a bit distasteful. I hope you'll stick around (minus sockpuppet shenanigans) and contribute on other topics.

Did you LOOK at his first post? It was personal from the beginning!

[The Local Dialect]

Of course AMonk and I read the thread. We're moderators. It's our job. I don't think anyone took the first post as anything other than a generalized rant. In fact, the thread was on its way out and probably would have just died a quiet death if you hadn't come on here to defend your honor. 

You need to chill. I'm sorry if it hurt your feelings that I said your site made uncool claims, or implied that you were guilty of the "crime" (see, I put it in "quotes," that means I don't actually think it is/was a real crime, but go ahead and blow that out of proportion too) of exaggerating on the internet.

In any event, the only people making a big deal out of anything are you and Pumped, the rest of us are just along for the ride. I am pretty sure most of us here at Raoul's had ever heard of you or your site a week ago and are not even remotely invested in this argument or the outcome.

[Nathan Ryan]

You need to chill. I'm sorry if it hurt your feelings that I said your site made uncool claims, or implied that you were guilty of the "crime" (see, I put it in "quotes," that means I don't actually think it is/was a real crime, but go ahead and blow that out of proportion too) of exaggerating on the internet.

You're right -- I overreacted. And I apologize for that. I realize that you can only look at this from the perspective of an outsider. You aren't privy to all of the harassing emails that I have been receiving from this individual over the past few months.

It's just frustrating because anyone with even a little experience with websites can see the purpose of this thread. The search engines will pick this up and when someone GOOGLE's my website name, it will come up with all of those words 'crime', fraud, etc.

Yes -- you're right -- most people out here have never heard of my site -- but I've heard of Raoul's site long before -- and it's very well respected -- so I hope you can understand my frustration with someone out here who is trying to trash the website and trash my reputation.

And I guess what also bothers me is that there some members out here who, while they don't agree with Pumped's tactics, seem to assume that what he is saying about me and the site is generally true. So I hope that they take a look for themselves before they make those assumptions.

[zero]

I looked at the site. I thought it was cool. A slogan is just a slogan. Everyone aspires to be No. 1.

[Fozzwaldus]

My grandmother once gave me some great advice, she said 'don't feed the troll' and that was way back in the 80's before the internet even got going. 

[El Macho]

If we want to slag off unprofessional and really bad websites in the China ESOL world, there are much more deserving candidates…

[Pumped]

For the record, I don't really think it is cool for someone with fairly limited in-country and teaching experience to go around making claims about being the number one source of China information or whathaveyou.

This really was the entire gist of my issue with this particular site, not so much that claims were made about being #1 but that I felt I was deliberately misled about the source of the information.  Getting past the issue of misrepresentation, I honestly think Robert Vance/Nathan Ryan writes very well.  As for Zero's point, my "damage" was in finally finding out that the guy who's been writing all this advice had initially no experience in China when he started writing it and even now only half of what I have.  I felt duped when I read his admission on his site.

Pumped, I have enjoyed your Posts.  They are well-written and lucid.  However, I am becoming a little wearied of this particular Topic.  I would really like to see what you think about other matters.  Please will you leave this Thread, and start adding your insight in other Topic areas?

Agreed.  Thank you.  Raoul, sorry about sockpuppet.  He's been buried.