Things other expats do that drive you insane

Quote from: gonzo on October 02, 2012, 05:42:37 PM

If they act outside the law they face the consequences, but a bunch of non-approving self-appointed moral champions on the case.....sheesh!!

So you would approve of a 50 year old Western guy dating his 18 year old Chinese college student?  What about the the age of consent in China, do you agree with that?

I'm not too sure this is what I suggested at all, but "dating" is a far too cute American term that other English speaking countries don't employ....because its too cute and too dumb.

Case in point. One of my graduates invited me to her 21st. birthday lunch at a restaurant. Turns out I was the only guest, she insisted on paying, and saw me to the subway with a farewell first and last kiss in front of a few hundred rubberneckers. Where would you put that on your sins continuum? For me, it was a "Goodbye Mr Chips" moment to remember. But for the Moral Right? Probably "dating" at the very least.


i'm always suspicious of the self-righteous and indignant. What's their real agenda?

I believe your glasses have a bit of a rosy tint to them....

Not attacking you personally here (since I do not know if it is applicable) but I despise the FT's who sit on a high horse because they believe anyone who has a lesser degree or who lacks certain teaching credentials is incompetent or undereducated.  

I don't use glasses, and view this issue in possibly the same way as an MD does when iridologists, naturopaths, aromatherapists, bone crackers, snake oil salesmen, and others with "alternative therapy" training call themselves doctors. It devalues the ELT cause and misleads the clients. A real teacher has to work extra hard for professional respect in China because there are charlatans out there damaging the brand. And by" charlatan", I am not referring to well educated, well intentioned people doing a year or two in China. but to those who do more harm than good in - and out of -  the classroom. We are not helped by the generic Chinese word "laoshi" designated to anyone from department head to photocopy lady!!

My two cents - USA colleges and universities have been known to use undergrads to teach labs and grad students to teach labs and even full courses.  Those teachers have ZERO formal education instruction under their belts.  Some utterly suck, but others do a fine job and qualify quite well as teachers in my book.  I've also seen properly licensed and experienced teachers, some at very high levels of certification, who should never have been allowed near any classroom.

Teaching is an art, not a science.  Some artists need to go to art school to become any good.  Others are already good and can be improved by education.  Others are good enough that they shouldn't be messed with.  Some people can be trained for decades and still aren't good artists.


I'd also like to say that I'm deeply and bitterly disappointed not to have been dragged away and aggressively molested by any Chinese teachers or students.

One time a VERY hot Chinese teacher at a middle school I was doing some classes at asked me to come to her apartment to "lie down."  I was completely taken off guard, so instead of saying "OH YES!", I said "WHAT?!?".  She replied, "Come to my apartment to lie down with me and my husband."  My reaction, "WHAT?!?!!?"  Then she said, "We always take a nap after lunch.  You can lie down on the bed in the guest room."


And, just to creep out those who are easily creeped out, the last time I checked, the legal age of consent here in the Big Silly is 14.

We seem to have drifted very far off topic...I do believe we have an entire thread on degrees and whether they matter or not. As for the term "real teacher"..err...I would say that is simply someone who enters a classrooms and exits secure in the knowledge that all his/her students are leaving the classroom in possession of either knowledge they did not have before or a slight improvement in previously acquired skills.

To get back on topic...errr...Ah yes, I get annoyed when other ex-pats do not agree with me that "Dracula" is a good book..and when they confuse Denmark with Holland...Whatever virtues and superiority Westerners lavish upon our educational systems, a basic knowledge of geography should not be one of them

Also, I do believe the snake-oil salesmen comparison is fallacious. Back in the old day, a quack mountebank with a good spiel could make a fair amount of money doing very little...educators in China can work their ass off and still not be rolling in the stuff...I wonder if there is a market for snake oil? And rose-tinted glasses? If the world looks better viewed through a rosy tint, would not most people be inclined to buy a pair? Would they work on children?
"Eat your broccoli, son".
"I hate broccoli. It looks like a plate of yuck!"
"Ah, then put on those new shiny glasses".
"Ooooh, now the broccoli looks much better".

Endless possibilities in rose-tinted glasses, methinks

Erik Longshaft [as your name translates to in ancient Greenlandic], there is no off-topic on this thread; all is fair game. By definition, it is off topic. The sleazy old FT lusting after innocent girl thing has been done to death, yet gets a re-run, so I thought I'd throw in the "all unqualified teachers should be beheaded" line.
EL's rationalisation holds no water: because some truck drivers are unlicensed but competent, and some are licensed but incompetent, does that mean we don't need licences for truck drivers, especially given that the great licensed majority are competent? And how American universities choose to save money is their business, although the Chinese education system seems to have picked the idea up.

And EL, all I can suppose is that you were:
-living off campus
-had spectacular BO
-had a very scary partner
But you saved yourself some trouble. They can be persistent and competitive.
 

I'm always suspicious of the self-righteous and indignant. What's their real agenda?

I, eh, I don't know what my secret agenda is.  What should it be?

...but I despise the FT's who sit on a high horse because they believe anyone who has a lesser degree or who lacks certain teaching credentials is incompetent or undereducated...

Quite.  Knowledge certainly counts (more in some jobs than others of course) but anyone who works hard and cares about their students' progress deserves a bit of respect.  Having said that:  

And another thing that really grinds my gears: Westerners who find themselves in classrooms suddenly thinking this makes them teachers.

I actually feel quite awkward about calling myself a teacher for exactly this reason.  I am working on a postgrad. degree at the moment though, and when I have got the first stage of that under my belt I will be more comfortable using the word.  But like I said above, I am not the sort who rates people on paper alone: a good day's work is what is needed.

There was a guy at one placed where I worked who put his job description on Linkedin as "Associate Professor" - we teased him about it and he changed it.  

Quote from: gonzo on October 03, 2012, 03:57:29 PM

I'm always suspicious of the self-righteous and indignant. What's their real agenda?

I, eh, I don't know what my secret agenda is.  What should it be?

If you agree that you belong to the Moral Right I can probably help.

But seriously, people doing on-going education and treating the ELT business as a career have my admiration. There are far easier ways of earning money: opening a recycling centre for one. So join the ELT crew Bobrage!

Your rationalization won't float.  A trucking license is an absolute legal requirement in most countries.  Possession of one doesn't grant skills.  Driving is not really much of an innate artistic skill. Licenses for motor vehicles came into existence pretty quickly once those began to proliferate.

A teaching license isn't really a requirement to teach as an FT in China.  I did have a license to teach in Florida that was active when I was teaching in China.  Since I'm never going back to teach in the USA, I let it lapse last year.  I'll leave it to my students to debate whether adding 30 credit hours of education classes on top of my degrees and made any difference or not.

People have been teaching for thousands of years before the concept of getting a degree in teaching came into existence.  Would you disregard all the teachings of Confucius, Aristotle, Plato, Buddha, Jesus, and a few others, branding them as charlatans since they didn't ever get properly trained in a formal setting?

 Would you disregard all the teachings of Confucius, Aristotle, Plato, Buddha, Jesus, and a few others, branding them as charlatans since they didn't ever get properly trained in a formal setting?

Certainly the last two, but let's not get onto religion. If Jesus was teaching Aramaic, what pedagogy would he employ? My argument is based around the belief that there is a mass of SLA research out there, and if we're teaching an additional language we should know about it. Understanding how and why people learn, and how best to help them reach their goals, does not come by divine inspiration. You need to study and work on it. However, I'm opening a separate thread on this in Teachers' Tips. See you there.

I think I may have one error in my analogy.  Being a teacher is less like being an artist than it is like being an actor.  Once again, some actors are naturals, some need various amounts of training, and some will never ever make it no matter how long they are trained.

Personally, I'm rather fond of the core message that both Jesus and Buddha had.  I think it can be summed up as something like "Quit being bastards to other people.  Sit back, take stock of the situation, and try to do something nice."  Agree with them or not, they both managed to acquire quite a following.  I'd say this shows that their teaching methods must not have been entirely unsuccessful despite of the lack of formal training and certification.

Naturally, to be an EFL teacher requires a firm grasp of the language.  On the other hand, I'd say anyone who can get an A in a reasonably rigorously taught set of English 1001 and 1002 classes at an English speaking university probably has at least some understanding of the subject at hand.

Personally, I'm rather fond of the core message that both Jesus and Buddha had.  I think it can be summed up as something like "Quit being bastards to other people.  Sit back, take stock of the situation, and try to do something nice." 

I've met many people over the years, and have current classmates who are of various or no faiths. Religion has nothing to do with being a decent human being.,

I've met many people over the years, and have current classmates who are of various or no faiths. Religion has nothing to do with being a decent human being.

Explain this then smugboy!

Err...what?

Err...what?

Exactly!

It tickled me, Bob.