next »

[Ruth]

Suzhou-ren, I need your help.

One of my students is graduating this year and has been offered a job at New Oriental in Suzhou. Her parents are thrilled that she's been offered a position at such a prestigious company. I'm not so thrilled for her. They want her to work FOR NO PAY for 4 months while she is in training. They are not offering her a place to live or any living expenses. They are not guaranteeing her a job after the 4 months. It sounds like a scam to me.

She knows that what they are offering is illegal. She is worried about not knowing anyone in Suzhou and having to support herself there with no income. But, but, but... her parents are fixated on the Important Company Name and she is caving to their pressure. I told her I'd ask around about the company.

So, anyone have the scoop on these people? I know that any experience an FT has had with them would be different than she can expect as a recent Chinese graduate, but maybe someone has some light to shed.

[mlaeux]

Oy vey! 

Are you kidding me? Work for no pay?
Maybe if she found something that did pay,
her parents would back off...

[ericthered]

I have heard about this practice. They do this to students, leading them to believe they will get a good job with NO after the probation period and then...whammo! no job.
Tell your student what my cynical grandpa told me: Don't ever volounteer, don't ever work for free and always enjoy a good sandwich, you never know when you will have another one...

[Stil]

This is pretty common and may not be a scam. They would actually not be able to hire her until she has all of her graduation papers but she could start her training. There are even some jobs that the applicant has to pay to get.

I don't specifically about New Oriental but many of the so-called top training centres consider the training they are giving worth it. They are very specific about how the Chinese teachers must teach. She would sit in on classes and take notes and have practice classes with other teachers before getting in front of the students. New Oriental is not a fly-by-night training centre, they don't need to pull scams on employees so much as they pull plenty on customers.

There's a problem that a many employees are having with the post-90s generation. They are taking jobs but leaving quite quickly without even having another job saying things like, "it's not suitable for me" when they really mean that they thought working would be easy. Companies are finding that they are paying to train employees that take off after a couple of months and this is one way to deal with that.

A job at New Oriental in Suzhou for a fresh graduate is very good. No wonder her parents are thrilled. Even not being accepted by New Oriental after the training period, other training centres would be happy to have a New Oriental trained teacher.

Work for no pay? Ridiculous

Free training? Not so ridiculous

What are her options? If she doesn't take the position, what will she do in that 4 month period? Her parents wishes seriously need to taken into consideration. After all TIFC

Is she cute because I think Con is still single.

[The Local Dialect]

I agree with Stil. This is common in China and Chinese employees, especially recent grads, cannot afford to be picky about work. Most recent grads end up unemployed, so if she's not got any other offers on the table, getting the on the job training from New Oriental (which, I'm sure you know, is a huge company, very Chinese, but about as "legit" as it can get for a Chinese English teacher) is better than sitting at home chatting on QQ. New O. will absolutely teach her how to teach in their way -- no doubt she will learn some useful strategies and the New Oriental experience will look good on a resume.

My son's school has unpaid interns who actually stay at the school for 6 months and they aren't guaranteed a position after 6 months either. Most of them consider the experience and the resume line worth it. I don't think a single one has quit their internship, they consider themselves lucky to be working in an international school and learning something they didn't have an opportunity to learn at school. Probation periods are typical for Chinese companies. 4 months is a bit on the extreme side, but I imagine that New Oriental can afford to be choosy.

Jobs are not easy to come by for young Chinese people. We can't really give these kids the same advice we'd give fellow foreigners because they aren't dealing with the same job market we are.

[MK]

Jobs are not easy to come by for young Chinese people. We can't really give these kids the same advice we'd give fellow foreigners because they aren't dealing with the same job market we are.

Well, I dunno.......seems to be a growing trend, but personally I loathe this stuff. 

Almost half a year of unpaid work after just dragging your ass through X years of university?  The sons and daughters of the rich and privileged can take this sort of thing in their stride because of, well,  mummy and daddy. But for everyone else it's just yet another barrier to achieving a decent standard of living or improving your station in life. A lot of perfectly capable and deserving people wont take these positions because they simply cannot afford them.  Sorry, off topic, but it sucks.

[slayer6719]

My wife's niece is a boss at New Oriental here in Fu Zhou. She told me that the internship is a normal thing for Chinese Graduates to do, but she did say 3 months not 4. She,ll be doing training, observing classes and giving some demo classes. Depending how she goes over the internship will decide whether or not she,ll be offered a position.
Hope this helps.

[El Macho]

For what it's worth, this isn't uncommon.

<off-topic>

If she's in awe of the opportunity to be in the bright lights of the big city then it might be worth a look, but otherwise don't bother. Training center jobs tend to be chew-them-up-and-spit-them-out type work environments, especially for new graduates.

Chinese I know in education are especially skeptical/cynical about New Oriental. Most of my friends claim that New Oriental is more interested in pleasing the customers than actually educating, and thus this is not a very good environment for those who want to be educators; one classmate of mine, who worked at the BJ New Oriental said that she was required to tell a certain number of jokes per hour in class. Seriously.

If the student wants a career of working in training centers, having a New Oriental pedigree may be helpful. If she ever wants to be a school teacher, it probably won't be any help at all.

But of course, this doesn't matter a whit. </off-topic>

[Raoul F. Duke]

I was totally underwhelmed by New Oriental Suzhou...by the facility, by the salaries, by the curriculum, by just about everything. I elected not to work there. The prestigious part is in Beijing, not in Suzhou.

Reprehensible though I find the practice, I understand that unpaid internships are accepted in China. But I do think that it at least ought to be for a promising career...and personally I'm not sure you'll find one of those at New Oriental Suzhou.

[Ruth]

Thank you for the input. I appreciate your comments and will pass them along to my student.

She was told that the 4 months would be spent in training and that she would have to pass some sort of certification before she would be hired. Passing the certification does not necessarily guarantee the job, though. 

[latefordinner]

Would I recommend an unpaid internship position to my own son or daughter? Depends on the situation, depends on the career path. A postion with a prestigious law firm or non-governmental organization, doing the kind of work and assisting the kinds of projects very few people ever get to be part of? Absolutely. Flipping burgers at a place where the highest job you'll ever get is chief burger-flipper? Fuggidabowdit. She should be asking just how prestigious NO is, just how useful the training will be to her (as opposed to someone else) and what sort of job she might (nothing is promised) get upon completion of the training.
Common as this scam may be, it goes a long way to explaining why so many young people quit jobs at the drop of the hat. "I did all that work for them, and never even got paid. What did they ever do for me?" If employers are really concerned about retaining employees after going to the expense and trouble of training them, they should perhaps take the trouble of providing training the employees find marginally useful. In Chinese education, you just don't see a lot of that. 

[Ruth]

She's off to Suzhou on the train tomorrow morning. If she gets 7.5 on the IELTS exam after her training, she'll have a job. I guess the way to look at this is an opportunity for some valuable training at no cost.

[MK]

7.5 on the IELTS exam

That's interesting, because I'd say to get a band score that high is a pretty tall order for anyone who has not lived abroad in an English speaking country for a couple of years or more.  Not impossible of course, but tough.  E.g. Only the most prestigious UK Uni's will ask for that as an entrance requirement. I suppose many students can boost their overall score in the Reading and Listening sections though.

Competition must be tough.

[Ruth]

My understanding is that she will be teaching it if she gets the job. It's fair to expect the teacher to have the qualifications.

She found a place to live with a primary school teacher, so she's not alone in the big new city any more. I'm relieved about that for her.

[MK]

It's fair to expect the teacher to have the qualifications.

True, but how many Chinese-English teachers here actually have that level of English? Not many!