NATO
Barfly
Gender: 
Posts: 835
|
 |
« on: February 18, 2012, 03:08:36 AM » |
|
Right so you can say: So you want to marry me?
but not: So you want to marry with me?
can you say: He married with
Confused about when you can and can't use with, I'm sure I've heard people say "He married with a Chinese" for example. Anyone that can help?
|
|
|
|
|
Logged
|
|
|
|
adamsmith
Barfly
Gender:
Posts: 745
|
|
« Reply #1 on: February 18, 2012, 04:59:34 AM » |
|
wouldn't marry with me imply a double wedding - ie: getting married at the same time/place as I do, but to someone else.  On a more serious note the correct preposition to use with to marry is 'to'. The only time I hear with being used is by non native speakers. |
|
|
|
|
Logged
|
|
|
|
adamsmith
Barfly
Gender:
Posts: 745
|
|
« Reply #2 on: February 18, 2012, 05:57:42 AM » |
|
but then again on retrospect, I wonder if the preposition with is not just another manifestation of political correctness to show a shared partnership vs a proprietary notion that may be inferred from the preposition to.  |
|
|
|
|
Logged
|
|
|
|
Raoul F. Duke
Lovable Rogue
Despot in Absentia
Gender:
Posts: 9577
"Be specific if you order the mushrooms!"
|
|
« Reply #3 on: February 18, 2012, 07:02:46 AM » |
|
"married with" has connotations of an arranged or political marriage, at least on this side...it brings to mind things like the marriages between royal families in the bad old days.
|
|
|
|
|
Logged
|
"Vicodin and dumplings...it's a great combination!" (Anthony Bourdain, in Harbin)
"Here in China we aren't just teaching...
we're building the corrupt, incompetent, baijiu-swilling buttheads of tomorrow!" (Raoul F. Duke)
|
|
|
xwarrior
Barfly
Gender:
Posts: 1943
|
|
« Reply #4 on: February 18, 2012, 08:44:19 AM » |
|
I think that if you replace the word 'marry' with the 'f***' word things might get a bit clearer.  |
|
|
|
|
Logged
|
I have my standards. They may be low, but I have them.
- Bette Midler
|
|
|
|
AMonk
|
|
« Reply #5 on: February 18, 2012, 10:38:00 AM » |
|
I'm sure I've heard people say "He married with a Chinese" for example. Anyone that can help?
This would be correct only if the person said, "He's married , with a Chinese wife". ...notice the comma in this sentence as well as the addition of a suitable noun after the adjective "Chinese"  In other words, they are explaining his marital status (= not single) and that his spouse has a certain (different) nationality. More appropriately and simply, "He married a Chinese woman". But here again, you need to put a noun after/behind the adjective "Chinese". As adamsmith pointed out, the word "with" indicates and implies that the action (of the verb) occurred at the same time as a similar event. An adjective should not be used in a stand-alone situation as a noun. "That is a stupid" is incorrect, until/unless you follow "stupid" with a noun. "That is a stupid idea", would be correct. |
|
|
|
|
Logged
|
Moderation....in most things...
|
|
|
Calach Pfeffer
Barfly
Gender:
Posts: 2828
|
|
« Reply #6 on: February 18, 2012, 10:49:28 AM » |
|
|
|
|
|
|
Logged
|
|
|
|
old34
Barfly
Gender:
Posts: 2038
|
|
« Reply #7 on: February 18, 2012, 12:08:07 PM » |
|
I think what happens with Chinese English learners, who almost always use the "marry with" construction, is that they have learned a general rule that many verbs take a preposition before the object so they are trying to apply a general rule for the use of "to marry." Scanning through the prepositions that they know, they find "to" and "with" seem most applicable. In Chinese, they would say “Tom with Ann marry” [与] because Chinese prepositions precede the verb. So they use "with" and tack it on after the verb where it's supposed to go in English syntax under the general rule. What's going on, I think, is both intralanguage interference (theres a general English rule that usually prepositions are needed for the object of most verbs so "to marry" requires some preposition) and interlanguage interference (using Chinese syntax, which doesn't have prepositions, to choose erroneously, an English equivalent preposition-"with"). Just my opinion, but it's how I explain it to my students (without the linguistics terminology) and they catch on immediately (which leads me to believe I'm right) - they immediately create an exception for the verb "to marry" as requiring no preposition. By the way, I think that rather than them sounding stupid, this is a good example of good L2 learners learning L2. They begin to internalize the rules of English, make assumptions, begin to learn the exceptions (this, irregular verbs, etc.) and then move from fluency to accuracy. Don't criticize these mistakes, guide them.  |
|
|
|
« Last Edit: February 18, 2012, 12:15:41 PM by old34 »
|
Logged
|
Knowledge is knowing that a tomato is a fruit; wisdom is knowing not to put it in a fruit salad. - B. O'Driscoll
|
|
|
Stil
Barfly
Gender:
Posts: 3996
|
|
« Reply #8 on: February 18, 2012, 12:40:06 PM » |
|
Nato, stop leading your female student s on.
|
|
|
|
|
Logged
|
|
|
|
|
The Local Dialect
|
|
« Reply #9 on: February 18, 2012, 02:25:06 PM » |
|
I agree with old. I think "married with" is pure Chinglish, not that there's anything wrong with that.
You'll hear native speakers use "married into" as in, "he married into the royal family" or "she married into money," but I've never heard a native speaker use "married with."
|
|
|
|
|
Logged
|
|
|
|
NATO
Barfly
Gender:
Posts: 835
|
|
« Reply #10 on: February 22, 2012, 04:32:44 AM » |
|
Nato, stop leading your female student s on.
But if I can't do that then why am I teaching? With can't be used at all then, I thought I had heard people in the UK say it once in a while but after 18 months in China I can't remember what happened when anymore. Thanks for the input. |
|
|
|
|
Logged
|
|
|
|
fullricebowl
Barfly
Gender: 
Posts: 332
|
|
« Reply #11 on: February 22, 2012, 05:20:03 AM » |
|
An adjective should not be used in a stand-alone situation as a noun. "That is a stupid" is incorrect, until/unless you follow "stupid" with a noun. "That is a stupid idea", would be correct.
But Chinese is also a noun when describing nationality and language, right? I admit, saying "She's a Chinese" sounds strange to me but "She's an American" seems grammatically fine. Without it being a noun it would be more difficult to making sweeping generalizations using a somewhat pompous tone like "Making dumplings during spring festival is a custom of the Chinese." |
|
|
|
|
Logged
|
|
|
|
|
AMonk
|
|
« Reply #12 on: February 22, 2012, 02:33:32 PM » |
|
But... "She's a French" does not work at all....  That's why English is  the most difficult language to learn - never mind master |
|
|
|
|
Logged
|
Moderation....in most things...
|
|
|
Stil
Barfly
Gender:
Posts: 3996
|
|
« Reply #13 on: February 22, 2012, 02:47:57 PM » |
|
Frog
|
|
|
|
|
Logged
|
|
|
|
adamsmith
Barfly
Gender:
Posts: 745
|
|
« Reply #14 on: February 22, 2012, 03:24:48 PM » |
|
Chinese is a noun and an adjective. when using it to say something like 'she speaks chinese' you are implying 'she speaks the chinese language'. I am sure there is a proper grammatical term for this type of word. The difference is when you are talking about people vs nationality. When the country name takes on the 'an' ending like canadian and american you can use it to talk about an individual 'she is an american' or in the general sense to mean of many 'she is american', but other endings such as 'ese' in chinese cannot take on the individual sense, you would have to say she is a chinese person to get the individual meaning. but she is chinese to give the meaning of one of a whole bunch.
|
|
|
|
|
Logged
|
|
|
|
|
