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Author Topic: ESL teachers bored fifty cent gang  (Read 1599 times)

kevcom1

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ESL teachers bored fifty cent gang
« on: December 12, 2011, 11:57:46 PM »
For me it is interesting that there are a group of people here in china that are paid to fill up any site with garbage to detract from the information. I believe they are called the "fifty cent gang" but I recently read they are now being paid more due to inflation.
The other day I was at a "cafe", one that i have not been to in months and lo and behold the same garbage was happening. a group of posters, Turnoi, dragonized, san migs, silverboy and a few others were continuing their attacks on anyone that had anything positive to say about schools, china or peoples experiences.
I wrote a post to another suggesting to not take it too seriously cause i thought they might be supported by or paid by the "cafe" to stir the pot. I was shocked to see the admin had edited my entire post. I mean here was a site that had people writing such things as "all philipino women were dirty, lying cheats" and yet my post was editted. It is sad to see how this site supports racism, homophobia, sexism and many other hateful thoughts. I personally know a few people who have innocently gone their only to be disgusted by the garbage they hear.
Th reason I am writing this is to ask that others refuse to use this site and pass it on to anyone who might be affected by this site. i doubt people would use the services of the Nazi party or the KKK so why go to the "cafe"?
These members of the "cafe" gang should be ignored and or hung up for issiuing theior hateful attacks. From now on I will be doing my best to let people around me know how hurtful and horrible the "cafe" really is. aaaaaaaaaa
« Last Edit: December 15, 2011, 10:51:50 AM by kevcom1 »

George

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Re: Dave's fifty cent gang
« Reply #1 on: December 13, 2011, 12:23:42 AM »
Kev, I haven't looked at "the spoon" for years. I'm surprised that turnoi and silvertwit hang out there. Their soapbox is usually eslteachersboard. I don't think I have read anything intelligent from either of them. Being edited is not new. Happens a lot when one of the golden boys is attacked. They seem to be a protected species. Don't worry about them. People know how bad the spoon is....the Korean boards are truly terrible, but there is little censorship there.
The higher they fly, the fewer!    http://neilson.aminus3.com/

Just Like Mr Benn

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Re: Dave's fifty cent gang
« Reply #2 on: December 13, 2011, 12:46:12 AM »
Kev, I haven't looked at "the spoon" for years. I'm surprised that turnoi and silvertwit hang out there. Their soapbox is usually eslteachersboard. I don't think I have read anything intelligent from either of them. Being edited is not new. Happens a lot when one of the golden boys is attacked. They seem to be a protected species. Don't worry about them. People know how bad the spoon is....the Korean boards are truly terrible, but there is little censorship there.

I think this site, (the censorship, the control, the guidelines etc) is very well thought out, and I'm very happy with it, but I'm not sure about encouraging boycotts of other sites. I detest eslteachersboard, but I appreciate that others find it more palatable than I do, and I find the occasional topic on the spoon interesting.

I agree with (what I think is) Raoul's take; ignore them, and each to his own. Hopefully the adults will find their way here eventually. I even suggest it if I spot someone obviously in the wrong establishment.

Raoul F. Duke

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Re: Dave's fifty cent gang
« Reply #3 on: December 13, 2011, 05:10:01 AM »
I don't think there's any kind of "boycott of other sites".

We don't want the place to be dominated by whinging about other sites; we have a special area Upstairs just for that. (Indeed, this thread is skirting the edge of getting moved up there...)

We'd rather you didn't promote going to other sites that compete with us.

We'd rather you add content here instead of drawing people away to other sites' content.

There are some forums we don't really like, especially the China forums at Chez Fasciste (aka Dave's ESL Cafe).

But boycotting other sites? None that I know of. Not realistic; of course we all visit sites beyond The Saloon. Including me.

Meanwhile, I don't really place Turnoi in the same class as the gang of idiots listed above. He has his moments (don't we all?) but he seems much more fair and sane than those others. I know for definite sure that San Migs and others at ESL Teachers Board were booted off The Saloon for being assholes, and have pretty big chips on their shoulders.
I don't know if those guys are on Dave's or not (I can't bear to look...) but they're pretty rampant on ESLTB.
"Vicodin and dumplings...it's a great combination!" (Anthony Bourdain, in Harbin)

"Here in China we aren't just teaching...
we're building the corrupt, incompetent, baijiu-swilling buttheads of tomorrow!" (Raoul F. Duke)

kevcom1

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Re: Dave's fifty cent gang
« Reply #4 on: December 13, 2011, 05:21:08 AM »
I can imagine that old hands here in china are knowledgable of who to ignore and who not to, who i am referrring to is of the course the newer types that get embroiled in a battle and might not have any support. I have talked to plenty of people that have been attacked at that site unfairly and feel they have no support at all.
Are these fools the kind that you want as respresentatives of the ESL community? The 'cafe' is a big site and i understand controversy creates a buzz but when it is bashing everyone that comes on i think it needs to stop.I do not encourage the chinese people around me to engage in racism or sexism so why would I not do the same on the net?
The problem i have with the cafe is not that they allow different opinions, (opinions are like arseholes everyone has them) but i do have a problem when mine and others are silenced in favour of hateful people that clearly derive pleasure from this.
i can go either way, say nothing (as they would like) or do something to end this BS. If the consensus is do nothing then I will do  that but I will be ashamed. t do nothing is worse than to do what they are when it has the potential to impacrt others unaware of what is happening.

George

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Re: Dave's fifty cent gang
« Reply #5 on: December 13, 2011, 07:11:10 AM »
Everyone has different opinions, Kev. For example, Raoul thinks turnoi is OK, whereas I think he's a blithering, self-opinionated, idiot! That's fine, Raoul is a much more forgiving soul than I am. The Spoon is good for a laugh. Sometimes, all you can do is laugh!! I just forked out $430 for a new distributor on the car. I'm grinning through clenched teef!!! llllllllll llllllllll
The higher they fly, the fewer!    http://neilson.aminus3.com/

Raoul F. Duke

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Re: Dave's fifty cent gang
« Reply #6 on: December 13, 2011, 09:11:05 AM »
I will definitely concede that the "attack everybody!" phenomenon is very real. It certainly is on ESLTB, and wouldn't be surprised to hear that it's on Dave's as well.

I like to think that The Saloon, at least, is above that. We try to keep that stuff from happening here...and for the most part, I don't think it does. bjbjbjbjbj
"Vicodin and dumplings...it's a great combination!" (Anthony Bourdain, in Harbin)

"Here in China we aren't just teaching...
we're building the corrupt, incompetent, baijiu-swilling buttheads of tomorrow!" (Raoul F. Duke)

kevcom1

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Re: Dave's fifty cent gang
« Reply #7 on: December 13, 2011, 09:47:44 AM »
i would agree that it does not and I am grateful for that, but for all the people that do not know this site and go to the crappy cafe innocently looking for info or to share their experience get blasted out of the water.
I hate when the chinese around me stereotype foreigners and lump us all in there together and I can only imagine that people back in the west do that as well.
Going home for vacation I often hear derogatory things about ESL teachers living abroad and have no real way to show them that there are good people here in china.
ultimately i am sure everyone has met people here in china they wish they never had but if we do not say or do anything how does that improve the situation?
If i am posting in the wrong spot i apologize but my feathers have been a bit ruffled just looking at how others have been treated so shoddily at that site and the admin there encourages it.
would it not be better to spread the message that this here is the place for sharing info and you wont be attacked and made to feel like a fool? A boycott is a good idea but maybe an even more aggressive stance would be helpful. I am sure there are those throughout china and the world that would appreciate it.

old34

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Re: Dave's fifty cent gang
« Reply #8 on: December 13, 2011, 10:35:41 AM »
I think you are confusing two different boards. The "cafe" is Dave's ESL Cafe.

The stuff you are describing in your first post happened and is happening on the ESLTeachersBoard. And the people you mentioned in your first post are from that same ESLTeachersBoard. That place is not The Cafe nor a "cafe."

Knowledge is knowing that a tomato is a fruit; wisdom is knowing not to put it in a fruit salad. - B. O'Driscoll

kevcom1

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Re: Dave's fifty cent gang
« Reply #9 on: December 13, 2011, 10:59:53 AM »
I have never been to the teachers ESLboard, i am talking about Daves esl cafe.
From what I understand those people also run roughshod in the eslboard but i have yet to see it firsthand.
i have over the years seen myself and others trashed on daves Esland the admin have doe nothing to discourage it, i have written a few posts actually, none that were overly inflammatory and have been edited up the wazoo, Whilst responging to someone being attacked i suggested that Turnoi, San mig, silverboy , dragionized and a few others might be on the payrollin an effort to create some buzz for the website and my entire message was edited.
Pretty much the tactics of the chinese 50 cent gang. aaaaaaaaaa

Stil

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Re: Dave's fifty cent gang
« Reply #10 on: December 13, 2011, 11:46:42 AM »

In the Saloon a newbie can get good information, support and encouragement.

In the Cafe a newbie can get ridiculed, confused  and treated like shit poorly.

All useful before beginning an ESL job.

The Local Dialect

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Re: Dave's fifty cent gang
« Reply #11 on: December 13, 2011, 12:40:47 PM »
I think those people are just assholes, not hired stooges. Your post got erased/edited because you were "trashing" their site (by claiming the posters were paid stooges). Dave makes a lot of his money selling recruitment ads, so it would be pretty counterproductive of him to hire people whose sole purpose was to trash China and go on about how shit the jobs here are. Even if they were being paid just to generate traffic, surely Dave would direct them to generate traffic without actively steering people away from the jobs he advertises.

kevcom1

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Re: Dave's fifty cent gang
« Reply #12 on: December 14, 2011, 11:51:51 PM »
i am not usually one for conspiracys yet this here is just my opinion. i imagine that daves is big enough with the advertisers that they would not pull their ads now even though the posters are trashing the school. For example EF posts with every ESL site and I highly doubt that they look at the posts, yet if you read what those douchebags are always writing there is never a chance for anyone from Ef to defend themselves. A school that i am familiar with advertises on Daves, a few months back they were brutally attacked to the point where people working there tried to defend themselves only to be shouted down. the school still advertise on that site assuming that there is no censorship and these are the opinions of a few.
someone had suggested that Turnoi was a mod and the admin put a post stating he was not a mod. Now in my post i did nothing but suggest they were being paid to create a stir so that people would go back to that site. If it were untrue the admin could have simply denied it as they did with the other post but instead they edited the entire thing.
I really believe that at one point that site was intended to help people coming to teach and now has been twisted into a money making venture where Turnoi and others are paid to fight with others in an attempt to create a buzz. i really cannot see why some one like him would post daily for years and always with the same douchey message.
this is why I am suggesting that something be done to spread the word that the "cafe" serves its own interests at the expense of the people wanting to come here and the ones living here.
If enough people were to do something about it maybe just maybe thesituation would be rectified. It is hard enough living here without having to deal with the "cafes" bs.
new people dont know about turnoi, san migs, silverboy and other such douchebags and I think as a responsible community it is important that we educate others.
Maybe i am being naive.

tomhume89

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Re: Dave's fifty cent gang
« Reply #13 on: December 15, 2011, 12:01:17 AM »

In the Saloon a newbie can get good information, support and encouragement.

In the Cafe a newbie can get ridiculed, confused  and treated like shit poorly.

All useful before beginning an ESL job.

Exactly. I can see why this place started in the first place. Good job!

Just Like Mr Benn

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Re: Dave's fifty cent gang
« Reply #14 on: December 15, 2011, 12:23:45 AM »
The explanation is that Turnoi and the others receive psychological self-gratification from all these posts. They believe that they're helping people 'know the truth' and thus they are important.

I think Turnoi is quite a religious person. I'm not suggesting that his behaviour is because he is religious. It's just that there are some people of whom we can only "envy their freedom from the taint of self doubt". (I can't find on the internet who first said that. i wonder if that means I can claim it was me).

I think that we all recognise that there are some good EF schools. (I of course know this for a fact from personal experience) and I've seen people say that there are good agents. Stil, absolutist opinions about language mills and agents do have a purpose. For a newbie looking to come to China, on the basis of probability it's probably best to avoid. If I tell you that I played Russian Roulette and survivved, that doesn't mean that everybody should copy me. Perhaps a nice game of Gin Rummy might be a better idea.

So the behaviour of Turnoi and his ilk do have their roots in a semblance of logic, even though they do come across as unappetising human beings. I'm just thankful that they're there and not here, (as far as i know. I myself have a different username on Dave's).

When i joined raoul's I used a different username. Let's be clear. I wasn't anywhere near as bad as the Fundies on the Spoon, but when i first came to China I posted there and, given how easy it is to confuse expressing strong opinions with just being a dick, there may have been the odd post that I didn't think reflected the best me. It was easy for me to get sucked into that poisonous culture over there.

I'm not trying to suck up to Raoul and the other mods, but when I joined here and read the history and guidelines, I felt like the saloon reflected a few years of experience and wisdom of running these kind of forums. There's expected behaviours, and I've decided to go along with it.

To get to the point, I don't believe there's a conspiracy at the Spoon to pump up the controversy. It's merely that everyone, both the posters and the mods, get to feel like worthwhile human beings behaving as they do. I think they'd be sorely mistaken in that assumption, and it's a pity if it's seen as a reflection of the wider laowai community. Still there are worse cesspits of forum proto-humanity out there; China Daily for one.
« Last Edit: December 15, 2011, 12:30:08 AM by Just Like Mr Benn »