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[Fozzwaldus]

any news on this?

nothing apart from a initial email in october here in Ningbo...

[Nolefan]

we started paying into it this month in Beijing.. 
We still don't have any information as to how we can get the money back from the social security contributions though.
The insurance side is a bit easier to deal with albeit completely useless for standard visits since it only covers any cost above 1800rmb and only at the general ward of public hospitals, not the VIP section open to foreigners.

[xwarrior]

from Shanghaiist:
Over at new blog on the block Rectified Name, Tianjin-based expat Matthew Stinson has a must-read post on China's new social insurance for foreigners that distills everything you need to know about the new rules down to six points. Here's what jumped out at us:

The law only applies to foreigners with a “Foreign Experts Certificate,” aka the “work visa” aka the Z Visa aka the Zed Visa. Here’s where the perverse incentives come into play. If a foreigner has a tourist visa, business visa, or marriage visa and is thus working illegally (Yang Rui knows who you are!), he/she won’t have to pay into the system. In fact, the requirement that employers must make contributions on our behalf means that, all other things being equal, an illegal employee is going to be considerably cheaper than a legal one, even if the foreigner in question has exactly the same contract salary as his/her legal counterpart. Moreover, employers during the next round of contract renewals may decide to pressure employees into changing their visas and working illegally so as to cut costs, and foreigners themselves may agree, figuring that the risks of being one of the san fei is worth the benefit of paying fewer taxes. At the same time, an employer wishing to stay aboveboard may decide to keep employees legal but refuse to offer raises during the next contract on the grounds that we are now receiving the “benefit” of social insurance. We haven’t even factored freelance workers into the equation - those working legally should fall under the aegis of the social insurance law, which begs the question of whether they or their employers are prepared to pay the tax . . .
http://shanghaiist.com/2012/06/26/will_chinas_new_social_insurance_re.php

The Rectified.name article is at:
http://www.rectified.name/2012/06/25/six-points-on-social-insurance-for-foreigners/

Not sure if Rectified.name is still b*ocked in China. Let me know if it cannot be accessed and I will post the article.

[Nolefan]

I'm disappointed at that post...
it has not brought to light anything new or whatsoever! All the information has been widely available for a while.

We started paying into this "new" tax back in March with no benefits or whatsoever, only drawbacks as far as I'm concerned. The insurance, supposedly the best part of it, is completely useless for all practical purposes:
- It's only valid in public hospitals, most specifically their normal section. not valid or whatsoever in the VIP/Foreigner friendly side of thing. The normal side of the hospital consistently refuses to deal with foreigners and always redirects them to the VIP ward no matter what.
- The coverage is for anything above 1800RMB. If your bill is 1799 rmb, you pay the whole thing. If your bill is for 1801RMB, you can claim 1 RMB back from the government. oh yeah... it's soo good!
- considering the amount deducted from my salary and the company contribution is substantially higher than the cost of a proper international insurance with direct billing, i view it as one hell of a rip off.

- We're paying into an unemployment fund that we are not eligible for

- We're paying into a retirement fund where most of us have no use for it here and no practical way to claim the money back at the moment.

I would have rather the post focused on shedding some light on those things.

[xwarrior]

I'm disappointed at that post...
it has not brought to light anything new or whatsoever! All the information has been widely available for a while.

I guess there is nothing new for those living in Beijing but I thought:

1. those living in Tianjin might be interested to know that that they were going to be levied as from July

2. as  the rates for every city will be different I thought the rates for Tianjin may be of interest to those living in that city

3. it is possible that many foreign teachers have not set aside funds to meet retroactive payments (and they are going to be substantial) so it gives a timely reminder

4. I cannot remember the issue of a possible lack of portability being discussed before

5. it does suggest that we may be confronted with a new ball-game when it comes to contract negotiations

As for the other issues (retirement/unemployment), I guess we have to wait for the authorities to come up with a plan that will further disadvantage foreigners in China. I want to know if I can claim the Maternity Allowance     

[Fozzwaldus]

still nothing in Ningbo... no word since an initial email late last year 

[Fozzwaldus]

@macho - v. intereting

your company is big foreign one right? do they already provide you with insurance? perhaps this gave them some bargaining space... I still don't know why my school hasn't started charging us.

any more details please let us know.

[Fozzwaldus]

I spoke with the company's head of HR yesterday and she said she thinks that the scheme is going to quietly go away.

oh please let it be so 

[Just Like Mr Benn]

My Uni told me that it doesn't apply to employment contracts of less than a year, and that's how they've got out of it.

[MK]

Update: Foreigner Participation in China’s Social Insurance Scheme

Actually, it's not much of an update at all as it doesn't add anything new.  I live in one of the (apparently) already participating cities, but nothing has been said at work and my tax is the same...

[Nolefan]

my old company started paying into the scheme back in March and the f**ktars passed the buck on to the employees..long story.... 

the new company i started at a month ago doesn't pay into the scheme. The HR department just said flat out that since they provide us with international insurance (YEAH) they were not paying into it. They're even helping find me fapiaos to offset heavy taxes more money for booze

[MK]

What sorts of fapiaos can be used to offset taxes?

Not speaking for Noles, but it usually depends what's counted as part of your 'salary' (taxed) and what's 'allowances' (not taxed, needs fapiao) sometimes your 'allowances' can be pretty hefty ... Got a housing allowance? get a rent fapiao that's more than your actual rent...Got a travel allowance?  Get fapiaos for taxis you didn't actually take...etc?

There's an old expat rumor that all sorts of stuff can be legally offset against your taxes if you are a foreign expert, including such frivolities as dry cleaning and Chinese lessons...I'd like to know if it's really true and do-able.

[old34]

There's an old expat rumor that all sorts of stuff can be legally offset against your taxes if you are a foreign expert, including such frivolities as dry cleaning and Chinese lessons...I'd like to know if it's really true and do-able.

It may be.

I posted about this a long time ago here: http://raoulschinasaloon.com/index.php?topic=6566.0 and cautioned in that post that you'd have to read it carefully and thoroughly to understand how it works. It's weird, but it worked at my previous university.

The main cite in the post was from here: http://www.startinchina.com/shenzhen/life/individual_income_tax_china.html

Read down to the middle part titld "How to Pay Less IITC in China".

[ericthered]

My Uni sent out a mail today telling us all that there will be a meeting about this insurance on Friday...Hm, they just told me that they will be obeying the 5-year-limit rule, so if they are going to make me start paying this, I will have things to say, such as they will need to draw up a new contract, as this insurance thingy is not mentioned in the original...I am not rolling over and paying happily into an insurance/unemployment/pension account when, at the same time, I am being told the law does not allow me to stay here until I can claim a pension...

[NATO]

My Uni sent out a mail today telling us all that there will be a meeting about this insurance on Friday...Hm, they just told me that they will be obeying the 5-year-limit rule, so if they are going to make me start paying this, I will have things to say, such as they will need to draw up a new contract, as this insurance thingy is not mentioned in the original...I am not rolling over and paying happily into an insurance/unemployment/pension account when, at the same time, I am being told the law does not allow me to stay here until I can claim a pension...

That is a line we should all take at that meeting in fact. Let's get 'em!