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May 20, 2013, 04:57:31 PM
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Author Topic: China's Social Insurance System  (Read 6528 times)
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Fozzwaldus
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« Reply #15 on: October 29, 2011, 02:58:51 AM »

yeah, we've heard nothing since here in Ningbo
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xwarrior
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« Reply #16 on: October 29, 2011, 04:07:57 AM »

There is an update on the new Social Security scheme on CHINAREALTIMEREPORT:

http://blogs.wsj.com/chinarealtime/2011/10/28/cough-it-up-a-guide-to-chinas-new-foreigner-social-security-tax/?mod=WSJBlog

The report outlines those details that have been confirmed (few) and those that are still being worked through (many).

While I was quite happy for implementation of the scheme to be delayed one thing now concern me.

* Item 2 has it that the scheme will be implemented before the end of the year and 'money will be collected according to an Oct. 15 start date, requiring retroactive payments'.

Given that there is every chance that the system will not be implemented before the end of the year I may have to consider setting some money aside for the day the big hit comes.
 th_an
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El Macho
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« Reply #17 on: October 29, 2011, 10:11:48 AM »

The latest on this issue: An interesting article on the topic of the rollout of the new social security scheme-supposedly a news briefing by the deputy head of the Ministry of Human Resources' National Social Security Management Center. The current situation is neatly summarized in this quote from the guy:

Quote
"We cannot at the moment address all questions once and for all ... Some new problems have come up and we are working hard to address them and we need some time to do so, rather than answering yes or no to any question at the moment."

http://www.asiaone.com/News/Latest%2BNews/Asia/Story/A1Story20111028-307415.html
I love the completely unrelated photo at the start of the article.

Thanks for posting both of those articles. The latest from my FAO is that nothing is going to happen about this for quite a while. Next year's contracts will probably be written with the social insurance scheme in mind, but it sounds like they're not going to do anything about it this school year.
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becster79
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« Reply #18 on: October 29, 2011, 04:25:44 PM »

We all got an internal email about it today at WSE. Was wondering when it would crop up, and we're not happy. Here's a couple of links they gave us to look at:

http://blogs.wsj.com/chinarealtime/2011/10/28/cough-it-up-a-guide-to-chinas-new-foreigner-social-security-tax/?mod=WSJBlog

http://blogs.wsj.com/chinarealtime/2011/10/28/beijing-on-foreigners-pension-payments-trust-china/?mod=WSJBlog

On my salary I'll be losing about 1200/ mth th_ao!
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xwarrior
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« Reply #19 on: October 29, 2011, 04:41:59 PM »

All is well! Do not worry. Close your eyes and go to sleep. There is nothing to worry about. Passengers are asked to stay calm and make their way to the nearest exit.

"   While Mr. Xu said the plan is still being formulated, he also said that foreigners have been too skeptical. “Trust China,” he said. “Trust the Chinese government.”
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fox
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« Reply #20 on: October 30, 2011, 03:36:09 AM »

nice one becster. i was itching for some clarification on this. Its about as clear as it can get in china. Another 15 years paying in before i can draw a state pension ! Do i really want to be teaching that long? I see it says we can get our contributions back if/when we leave. Its a burocratic nightmare each month to go and pay my leccy so i dont believe it will be a smooth process to get the pension refund. But then, as xwarrior said, we have been assured we are in good hands and have nothing to worry about.  th_k
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tomhume89
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« Reply #21 on: November 07, 2011, 01:09:38 AM »

Finally checked my bank today and there was no out-of-the-ordinary deduction...
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xwarrior
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« Reply #22 on: January 19, 2012, 12:09:09 AM »

"   While Mr. Xu said the plan is still being formulated, he also said that foreigners have been too skeptical. “Trust China,” he said. “Trust the Chinese government.”

Some not-so-good news for those living in Beijing:

Quote
Beijing Details Foreigners’ Mandatory Social Insurance Participation
Following the promulgation of a national decree ordering foreign employees’ mandatory participation in China’s social insurance system, Beijing recently issued its own implementation details in a bid to strengthen the enforcement of the new policy.

On December 20, 2011, the Beijing Social Insurance Fund Management Center (BSIFMC) released the “Circular on Issues Concerning the Improvement of Participation in Social Insurance by Foreigners Employed in Beijing (the new Circular).” The document details issues related to foreigners’ social insurance registration, backdated premium payments, charges of late fees, and the participation of foreigners from those countries that have signed a bilateral or multilateral agreement on social insurance with China.

Foreigners’ social insurance registration and backdated premium payments
According to Circular jingshebaofa [2011] No. 55 released by the BSIFMC earlier, employers in Beijing shall undertake social insurance registration for its foreign employees within 30 days after the foreign employee obtains a work permit.

In accordance with Circular No. 55, an employer shall provide the following documentation (both original and photocopy) for its foreign employees’ social insurance registration:

Passport of the employee
Work permit
Completed Beijing Social Insurance Individual Information Registration Form (three copies with company stamp)
Completed Beijing Social Insurance Participants Increase Form (two copies with company stamp)
Two passport photos
Other documentation as required
In cases where the employer encounters actual difficulty in providing all the original copies, registration may still be accepted if photocopies of the complete set of documentation can be provided, the new Circular added.

In addition, a foreigner must register with the same English name used on his/her valid passport.

A foreigner that qualifies for participation in social insurance and has been employed in Beijing before October 31, 2011 shall make a backdated premium payment for the period from October to December of 2011. A foreigner that qualifies for participation in social insurance and has been employed in Beijing after November 1, 2011 shall make a backdated premium payment from the month in which the foreigner is employed to the month immediately before the one in which the foreigner’s social insurance registration is made.

A foreigner that has already gone through social insurance registration procedures before January 1, 2012 shall not be charged late fees when making backdated premium payments, whereas a foreigner that goes through social insurance registration procedures after January 1, 2012 shall be charged late fees in accordance with the “Circular on Issues Concerning Late Fee Charges on Employers’ Overdue Social Insurance Payment (jingshebaofa [2011] No.39).”

Foreigners from countries with bilateral/multilateral treaties with China
Where a foreigner is the national of a country that has signed a bilateral or multilateral agreement on social insurance with China, his/her participation in social insurance shall be in accordance with the following:

The foreigner shall make their social insurance registration within 30 days after he/she obtains the work permit, and will make regular premium payments
Where the foreigner can provide evidence of his/her social insurance participation in the contracting state within three months after he/she obtains the work permit, he/she can be released from the obligation to pay premiums within the prescribed time limit for the prescribed types of insurance, in accordance with the agreement; if the foreigner has made social insurance registration and premium payments, the premiums shall be refunded
Where the foreigner provides evidence of his/her social insurance participation in the contracting state three months after he/she obtains the work permit, he/she can be released from the obligation to pay premiums within the prescribed period for the prescribed types of insurance from the month in which the agreement is provided; the premiums that have already been paid shall not be refunded
Where the foreigner fails to provide evidence of his/her social insurance participation in the contracting state three months after he/she obtains the work permit, both premiums and corresponding late fees shall be collected according to related provisions
The foreigner shall make premium payments for insurance types that are not included in the agreement and those that are included but have exceeded the time limit prescribed in the agreement
The new Circular took effect on December 20, 2011.

This comes from a newsletter from  Dezan Shira & Associates, posted on 13 January 2012
 http://www.dezshira.com/updates/2012/01/beijing-details-foreigners-mandatory-social-insurance-participation.html/

So you will be fined for a late registration of a scheme that the Chinese authorities said was 'not clear.'  th_as

I have a feeling that every other province will introduce the same requirements.

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El Macho
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« Reply #23 on: January 19, 2012, 03:59:15 AM »

I feel physically ill after reading that. Seriously.
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Nolefan
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« Reply #24 on: January 19, 2012, 05:16:59 AM »

this whole issue is seriously pissing the living daylights out of me now...
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Fozzwaldus
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« Reply #25 on: January 19, 2012, 11:41:44 AM »

at a meeting with the heads of the local Foreign Expert Bureau here in Ningbo (I was in attendance, I'd heard they'd brought New Years goodies for the laowai!)one of my colleagues asked about this...

the top dog seemed to have never heard of it, and his second in command explained it to him in Chinese, thinking we couldn't understand, that none of them knew when or how it was to be implimented in Ningbo, and that it was a very embarrasing thing for them (一个特别尴尬的事情)

I have now idea which brainiac in Beijing decided to announce this before they had the foggiest idea of how to implement it, but I've got a feeling his career is over.
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old34
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« Reply #26 on: January 19, 2012, 12:12:26 PM »

One of the reasons, I've heard, for part of the delay is that registration requires your full name per your passport and that many Chinese database systems in various schools and relevant government units can't handle a name field with so many letters. Also, upon registration, a "social security number" will be generated for you based on your country of origin and your document (passport) number so they need to create that system as well and propagate that through the system. With 5 different taxes (pension, insurance, etc.) that's 5 different bureaucracies at each local level that need to get their systems aligned, plus employers.

Offered FWIW. It still sucks hugely that they would make this retroactive back to last October and we may have to pay a huge lump sum because they can't their IT shit together prior to implementing this.


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« Reply #27 on: January 19, 2012, 12:20:08 PM »

The first time some renews their passport and the number changes, the whole system will crash. Much like my fucking bank.
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xwarrior
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« Reply #28 on: March 08, 2012, 09:43:51 AM »

SUZHOU update

Posted on March 6, 2012 by China Briefing

Suzhou Details Foreigners’ Mandatory Social Insurance Participation


http://www.china-briefing.com/news/2012/03/06/suzhou-details-foreigners-mandatory-social-insurance-participation.html

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becster79
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« Reply #29 on: March 19, 2012, 02:33:21 PM »

Word today from boss that Guangdong is implementing it from next month  th_ao! He said he'll explain it all to us tomorrow direct from HR. He seems happy with it but I think it's downhill from here. We'll see what he says tomorrow and update where I can.
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