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Author Topic: Work Visa (w business)  (Read 4556 times)

Ryguy

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Re: Work Visa (w business)
« Reply #15 on: August 27, 2011, 03:24:52 AM »
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bibibibibi bibibibibi Seriously, you need to find a good Chinese lawyer in the city where you want to set this up and ask for professional advice regarding your questions. You are NOT going to find such specific info on forums or by conducting google searches. If your wife has family in the place where you want to settle then ask them for the name and contact info of a good Chinese lawyer to engage with.
As for a general answer (based on personal experience and info I have from friends, which is NOT reliable) being an owner of a compnay, especially from your description of not wanting or being able to plunge a serious amount of cash into the business does not entitle you to a work permit and residency permit. China will give you these things but generally only after sinking SERIOUS money into a venture.

This is early research. This is also a legitimate business. Shouldn't JV be under local Chinese law, meaning that the start up capital is as low as Chinese standard? Being a leader of your own small business should allow you to get a work permit to work in that business shouldn't it?

We will already have a residency permit, its just the work permit that is the trouble.

I'm sorry if this is irritating anybody. I am just trying to figure this out.

dragonsaver

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Re: Work Visa (w business)
« Reply #16 on: August 27, 2011, 04:34:05 AM »
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We will already have a residency permit, its just the work permit that is the trouble.
What type of residency permit will you have? Normally if you have a residency permit you also have a work permit.  Maybe this is what is confusing some of the members here.
Be kind to dragons for thou are crunchy when roasted and taste good with brie.

jpd01

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Re: Work Visa (w business)
« Reply #17 on: August 27, 2011, 05:18:51 AM »
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bibibibibi bibibibibi Seriously, you need to find a good Chinese lawyer in the city where you want to set this up and ask for professional advice regarding your questions. You are NOT going to find such specific info on forums or by conducting google searches. If your wife has family in the place where you want to settle then ask them for the name and contact info of a good Chinese lawyer to engage with.
As for a general answer (based on personal experience and info I have from friends, which is NOT reliable) being an owner of a compnay, especially from your description of not wanting or being able to plunge a serious amount of cash into the business does not entitle you to a work permit and residency permit. China will give you these things but generally only after sinking SERIOUS money into a venture.

This is early research. This is also a legitimate business. Shouldn't JV be under local Chinese law, meaning that the start up capital is as low as Chinese standard? Being a leader of your own small business should allow you to get a work permit to work in that business shouldn't it?

We will already have a residency permit, its just the work permit that is the trouble.

I'm sorry if this is irritating anybody. I am just trying to figure this out.

It's ok, but I do feel like you are asking the same question over and over again to see if you can get a different answer you like.
Money is money, only a large amount will impress the local authorities enough to want to give you a RP and WP JV or not. In all honestly having a JV doesn't really decrease the amount of capital you need to start up a business here.
Remember I said in a previous post that the number of foreign employees of a company (read owners as well as there is little difference in reality) is dependent on how large the company is and how much capital is has. A friend of mine that helped with the registration of our first company said it usually takes about 6 Chinese employees before you can hire one foreign employee.
Remember you can register a company here in China but it doesn't come with permits for work or anything like that.
As a side note the friend of mine that opened his solely foreign owned enterprise (the restaurant) still has to have a main gig with a visa and he put a lot more money into that they you seem to want to put into yours ($15,000 if I remember correctly)

At the end of the day i just can't express enough how important it is to have local information in regards to this question.
i could link the national requirements for capital investment, hiring conditions and whatver I liked but the local regulations are going to be what actually cuts the mustard at the end of the day. It's the local authorities, not those in Beijing that set the standards that you have to go by. 
They will say yay or nay, tell you how much you need and if you can get the documents you want.

Plus at the end of the day you seems to assume that China has a rational rule of law that is not changeable from place to place, this is in no way true. Chinese law is should not must so is open to interpretation by whatever desk jockey you meet. Laws are often ignored or bent on a daily basis to suit whatever stance the local authorities want to take on that particular day or week.
"I don't understand what I did wrong except live a life that everyone is jealous of." Charlie Sheen.

BrandeX

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Re: Work Visa (w business)
« Reply #18 on: August 27, 2011, 06:17:13 AM »
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We will already have a residency permit, its just the work permit that is the trouble.
What type of residency permit will you have? Normally if you have a residency permit you also have a work permit.  Maybe this is what is confusing some of the members here.
Not true, I have a resident permit sticker in my passport which is not a work permit.

The Local Dialect

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Re: Work Visa (w business)
« Reply #19 on: August 27, 2011, 09:52:27 AM »
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We will already have a residency permit, its just the work permit that is the trouble.
What type of residency permit will you have? Normally if you have a residency permit you also have a work permit.  Maybe this is what is confusing some of the members here.
Not true, I have a resident permit sticker in my passport which is not a work permit.

Yep, me too. I believe Brandex and I both have residence based on our marriages to Chinese citizens. I don't think that's Ryguy's case. Ry do you mean you'll have your own job, and you'll get a residence permit for your wife through your job, then get her permission to work by setting up this business? I'm not sure it really works that way, as I'm pretty sure her residence and work permits will have had to come from the same source in order for her to work legally. But maybe I'm confused on that issue.

Ryguy

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Re: Work Visa (w business)
« Reply #20 on: August 27, 2011, 01:51:21 PM »
Yep, me too. I believe Brandex and I both have residence based on our marriages to Chinese citizens. I don't think that's Ryguy's case. Ry do you mean you'll have your own job, and you'll get a residence permit for your wife through your job, then get her permission to work by setting up this business? I'm not sure it really works that way, as I'm pretty sure her residence and work permits will have had to come from the same source in order for her to work legally. But maybe I'm confused on that issue.

Thats right. It would legally be her company as well, effectively making her partner or "ceo." I figured that a business owner could get a work permit to work only in that business she owns.

The law sounds silly. Those who start up JV with local Chinese should be able to get the right to at least work (plus live) in the area even if only being prohibited to work inside that business. Since they are supporting the local Chinese. I am not hiring her, she is hiring herself as partner. JVs are governed by the same law local Chinese business ownders abide to, so I was hoping it would allow her to work inside that business that she owns.

Ryguy

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Re: Work Visa (w business)
« Reply #21 on: August 28, 2011, 12:21:01 AM »
Would Hong Kong be easier?

jpd01

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Re: Work Visa (w business)
« Reply #22 on: August 28, 2011, 01:13:39 AM »
A hong kong company does not provide a residents permit. With a HK company (I have one if you read my post earlier) it does not provide a residents permit because of the one China two systems rule. The best you can get from a Hong Kong company is an F visa if it's a serious business which would last for 6 months and need to be renewed. You cannot earn an income within mainland China and would need to funnel all the income back to Hong Kong for taxation. Your business also cannot invoice or use CYN it must use HK dollars or similar foreign currency to trade with. A Hong Kong company is ideally suited for trade or international business, to set up a shop or retail outlet as a HK business would be a disaster.
Also there are complicated regulations for hiring Chinese staff which requires partnership etc.
But the main point is that it won't provide the docs you are looking for.
"I don't understand what I did wrong except live a life that everyone is jealous of." Charlie Sheen.

Ryguy

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Re: Work Visa (w business)
« Reply #23 on: August 28, 2011, 01:29:50 AM »
A hong kong company does not provide a residents permit. With a HK company (I have one if you read my post earlier) it does not provide a residents permit because of the one China two systems rule. The best you can get from a Hong Kong company is an F visa if it's a serious business which would last for 6 months and need to be renewed. You cannot earn an income within mainland China and would need to funnel all the income back to Hong Kong for taxation. Your business also cannot invoice or use CYN it must use HK dollars or similar foreign currency to trade with. A Hong Kong company is ideally suited for trade or international business, to set up a shop or retail outlet as a HK business would be a disaster.
Also there are complicated regulations for hiring Chinese staff which requires partnership etc.
But the main point is that it won't provide the docs you are looking for.

Oh I meant living and working inside HK. Sorry.

I have a neat idea for an accounting firm and I could use HK as a stepping stone to live in and gain experience and friends.

jpd01

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Re: Work Visa (w business)
« Reply #24 on: August 28, 2011, 05:44:19 AM »
Yeah it's certainly a lot better than setting up shop on the mainland. But you would need some serious coin to do it. Hong Kong is often rated the most expensive city to work and live in.
Think Manhattan then you probably get the picture, space in Hong Kong for a firm or business is extremely expensive and often hard to get. Depending on what kind of firm you want to set up and the size the price could range from high to exorbitant.
Setting up a company in Hong Kong is a very simple process but to be honest I've never explored living there. I have no idea about it, but as a Hong Kong company can be registered with as little as 1 hk dollar I would assume they have requirements for any kind of long term or permanent resident program.
Think about it like this, what do you think the requirements for a Chinese or overseas citizen for residency be if they wanted to open up a business in London or New York. I doubt they would be small.

The cost of living there would be very high unless you wanted to live in one of the ghettos or a neighborhood where people like to get all stabby.
But at the end of the day if you have very serious coin then set up shop in Hong Kong, it will serve you far better than anything on the mainland could. Maybe after that you can look towards an office in Shanghai or Beijing (maybe Shenzhen) but in all honestly there is little demand for western accountancy in China outside of the larger multinational companies that are already being serviced by large global firms.   
"I don't understand what I did wrong except live a life that everyone is jealous of." Charlie Sheen.