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[zero]

http://www.chinadaily.com.cn/usa/2011-07/22/content_12960768.htm

This is an interesting article about the trend toward joint-venture university programs. The first part reads:

Foreign universities are getting ready to grab a bigger slice of the education pie in China by firming up their existing partnerships and forging new alliances with Chinese educational institutions. Much of the optimism in Western academic institutions stems from China's strong economic growth, the increased spending power of its citizens and its growing demand for quality education.

Do you guys think this is a bandwagon worth jumping onto for teachers? I'm thinking it looks good. I have a friend who taught at one and made excellent money. But the teaching involved business topics mostly, and you needed an MBA or other higher degree.

Does anyone know what the other joint venture programs are looking for in teachers/instructors? What would be the best kind of education to pursue in order to get in on this trend? I am considering an MBA, myself, but not sure if that would be what other programs are looking for. Does anyone know if they all pay well?

[nicenightforawalk]

http://www.jobs.ac.uk/job/ACZ310/course-tutors-in-english-for-academic-purposes-fixed-term/

Job on offer at Nottingham Uni in Ningbo. Nice salary range (around 300k+ pa) but requirements are high. I dont think many of us would qualify TBH.

[ericthered]

Well, I have heard a lot of good things about the Uni in Ningbo. Some joint-venture Universities are, in fact, not joint-ventures in practice but just in name. The real JV Universities, such as the Ningbo-Nottingham one, have good salaries, materials and facilities and very high standards, meaning that they actually operate like real universities and therefore hire people with the requisite degrees to teach cetain disciplines. If you want to teach at one of them, it usually means you have to meet Western requirments for being a Uni teacher, namely a degree that is in the subject you want to teach and experience, in contrast to Chinese Uni standards where, though you have a BA in Tahitian Folk-Dancing and Aramaic, you are still considered an excellent candidate for the post of English teacher, as long as you..err...look foreign enough.

[Raoul F. Duke]

I advise being extremely careful in approaching these schools.
There are indeed some honest ones out there, but there are loads that are not.

I worked at a joint venture between a local Shanghai university, and a generally well-regarded uni in Australia...and the JV status was real.

It was the most thoroughly corrupt institution I ever encountered in China. The pay was great, but the job, for me anyway, became intolerable. Although all classes were in English, very few students could speak the language. But it didn't matter...the admins were making a fortune from bribes. Grades were routinely changed, and entire classes were graduated regardless of failure. There were accounts of suitcases full of cash being sent to Australia. Your teaching and classroom discipline were completely pointless...and no one knew this better than the students. The Australian side went through the motions of setting standards, but these were contemptuously ignored...but the Australian school turned a blind eye to what was happening. Too much money was being made.

Even the pretense of concern was only started when some of the JV grads were able to buy a visa, enter the Australian classrooms...and die like bugs on a windshield.

Be aware that while Western schools might be first-rate back home, their foreign operations are completely unregulated...and plenty of schools seem eager to take advantage of that fact. The presence of a Western partner definitely does not ensure a good program in China.

[MK]

As Raoul said, most JVs are basically out to make money.  The students are often those who have flunked out so badly from the Chinese system that the only option left for them education-wise is to go abroad. But then some still can't get the IELTS or TOEFL score they need so they go for a JV / foundation year. I'm all for second chances and not a fan of the traditional education system here...but think about that! 

However...   

Despite what they ask for, many JVs will accept teachers with a degree, CELTA + EAP experience for EAP.  For example, Liverpool Uni in Suzhou was advertising for 30 EAP staff this year.  Getting the EAP experience or knowledge is really the key, as it's quite different to run of the mill EFL/ESL.

It's not unknown for English teachers with relevant degrees (crucial) and good networking skills to re-invent themselves as subject lecturers either, if you want to try that route.

Oh, and that Ningbo salary is pro-rata, AFAIK you only get that amount for 10 months out of the year, so still pretty good but perhaps a little misleading.

[dragonsaver]

The JV university I worked at for 5 years in Dalian requires teachers to have a Master's Degree in the subject they will teach.  Teachers must send their transcripts where they are approved by the main university in the USA. The China branch of the American university is accredited, so teachers must be able to teach in the USA to work in China. Pay is for 12 month contract.

Marks are submitted directly, by computer, to the American University.
Students with a GPA below a certain level are put on academic probation and can't attend classes for 1 term (the first time) and a full year the next time.  

Many students go to the American campus after they finish 2nd year.

Students earn a double degree.  ie an American degree and a Chinese degree.  However, the Chinese degree is conferred whether the student passed or not.  

[zero]

Dragonsaver,

What are some subjects they teach? Would an MBA be helpful? Also, I know that some JV programs require you to have not only the relevant master's, but also some classroom experience in the U.S. at college level. Was that the case in Dalian? Also curious as to about how much they pay?

[dragonsaver]

They pay around 10K/month.  Return airfare.  12 month contract.

They teach all subjects. English, Chemistry, Physics, Psychology, History, Math, Sociology, Communications, Economics (Micro and Macro), Accounting, etc etc.

The MBA would only be useful if you were teaching a subject requiring an MBA.  They have 2-3 teachers with PhD degrees.  All the rest have Masters. I believe they have all their teachers for the fall semester.

[BrandeX]

Whether or not it relates to these sort of jobs, I can only suggest that an MBA alone is not considered a suitable credential for academia in most institutions in the USA, it may or may not be similar in a JV.

[El Macho]

There's some information about Joint-Ventures in this thread, too.

In terms of MBAs, in Beijing it seems that many people with MBAs go to work doing corporate training and are able to do well for themselves. I teach business writing at a corporate training centre, and it pays very well. However, working at a training centre certainly isn't the same as being tenured faculty.

Getting the EAP experience or knowledge is really the key, as it's quite different to run of the mill EFL/ESL.

This is a very important point. I taught high school EFL in China before returning to school for my MA. I chose coursework in EAP and now teach EAP; it is interesting, rewarding, and challenging. It's also about as far as possible from the "dancing monkey" gig as possible.

[zero]

El Macho,

I see in that old thread that at one time you applied to several joint ventures, including Missouri State. How did it go with Missouri State -- were you offered a position, and did you take it?

As for the MBA not being adequate for teaching in the U.S. ... I know that is essentially true. More specifically, you generally need a certain number of graduate credits (18, I think) in a given subject in order to teach it at the undergraduate level. And most MBA programs don't provide that, because they are spread thin over many topics. Some do, however, offer enough credits in a given concentration, such as marketing or accounting. Or you can take a few extra courses to get enough. The more salient problem is that without years of in-the-field business experience, the MBA alone probably does not make you competitive for jobs teaching business, since a lot of people want to do it. (Kind of a resume-, ego- and network-builder for business professionals.)

However, I don't think the hands-on business experience is so important for the JV programs in China, since the pool of candidates is smaller and the Chinese are focused on credentials and degrees. Whether the other requirements (about credits) are a factor, I don't know. I'd think they should be, for accreditation purposes, but I have a sense in at least one case that they're not. So I was curious as to what other people had heard or encountered.

[El Macho]

I wound up taking an EAP position at a Chinese graduate school, where inclusive of extra work I am able to earn more than I would have at Missouri or in Suzhou. Though I will not return for the 2012-2013 school year, in some ways I have found a great job – my job "only" requires 9 hours of class a week, meaning I have quite a bit of free time in which to pursue outside work and other interests.

[zero]

So, generally speaking, overall, what would you guys say is the best master's degree for having plenty of opportunities and plenty of money in China? MA TESOL, MBA, other? I want to go to school but don't know what to study. I'm thinking MBA. I want something that enhances opportunities both in China and in the U.S. I think Raoul said he has an MBA, so maybe he'll weigh in?

[jpd01]

I think the bigger point is what degree do you think will be best for your long term career goals? I don't think I'm alone in thinking that it's pretty much a waste time to pursue a higher degree simply for the chance to keep working solely in China.
I'll be finishing up my Masters in linguistics next year but in no way did I decide to do my masters so I could work in China. I love language and grew up in a household were English was our third language behind French And German. I love the study of languages and love to learn more as time goes by. Of course it will help me out with a good job here in China but I don't plan to spend the rest of my time here in the middle kingdom that is for sure.