classroom surveillance

  • 23 replies
  • 5970 views
classroom surveillance
« on: November 25, 2010, 03:57:11 AM »
this came up in the "observation" thread and I'm quite interested in this topic now so would like to learn more about teachers experiences and opinions on the matter.

I'm starting to think about this and research it.

A couple notions that have already come up is that those cameras in the classroom might thwart creativity and risk taking both among teachers and students, making mil1quetoast of our classes, and that students will become tacitly accepting of being under constant surveillance by authority figures, without recourse to look back at those monitoring them.

Regarding the argument in general about surveillance, that, if you aren't doing anything wrong you have nothing to worry about, that could extend to the monitoring of everything you do and say throughout your life. That could be a justification for monitoring all of your correspondences, purchases, books checked out, you name it.

But this presupposes a "right" and "wrong" as dictated by someone else and to which one would conform. In short, it says that if one is conforming there is nothing to fear. That might not be a problem as long as one fits well within the confines of acceptable behavior and beliefs and convictions of a given society at a given time, but if that society happens to go through a period of non-benevolence, one would be screwed.

Just a couple thoughts to get the ball rolling, if I've even supplied enough momentum for that.

Oh, and I liked this picture so much, I'll put it up again here in this thread.

suddenly it become more of a statement to NOT have a tattoo…

*

Escaped Lunatic

  • *****
  • 10847
  • Finding new ways to conquer the world
    • EscapedLunatic.com
Re: classroom surveillance
« Reply #1 on: November 25, 2010, 04:55:54 AM »
I turned down a pretty good job offer at one language mill.  Every classroom had 4 walls . . . made of clear glass.  You could stand in the room on one end and see through all the other rooms (they were neatly in a line).  Sometimes my teaching is pretty laid back, but sometimes it involves things that would be distracting (at best) to nearby rooms.  I also don't want to be in the middle of answering a detailed grammar question when the teacher behind me decides to do something distracting.

Sorry people, but the rumors that I am a goldfish are completely unfounded.  I also like to throw a lot of stones, so I don't want to live (or teach) in a glass house.

Cameras aren't quite as bad in one way - they don't provide instant distractions between classrooms.  They are far worse in another way.  No matter how perfectly conforming you try to be, someone can sit down later and replay every moment over and over, taking still shots and video snippets out of context to "prove" whatever that person wants to about you.

If you want a glass door so that people can check and make sure I'm not spanking the students too hard, that's one thing.  Being on 360 view and/or being continuously recorded by a camera is quite another. kkkkkkkkkk
I'm pro-cloning and we vote!               Why isn't this card colored green?
EscapedLunatic.com

Re: classroom surveillance
« Reply #2 on: November 25, 2010, 05:43:22 AM »
I don't think its a bad thing having cameras in the classrooms.   

Re: classroom surveillance
« Reply #3 on: November 25, 2010, 05:49:13 AM »
I just had a nice response typed and then my computer froze.  llllllllll

I don't want it to seem like I'm defending cameras or that I like them. I think they have their uses but are largely a waste. I don't think the issue is creativity or people feeling pressure to conform (and I'm not convinced that when it comes to teaching "conforming" means being a boring uninteresting teacher either. At least at my school there is a lot of pressure to be the. most. creative. teacher. ever., the teacher that not only gets the all important results but has a fun class that all the students love) so much as it is that having cameras in the classroom implies distrust. My kids aren't idiots, they pick up on that. If they don't feel like the school administration respects them, they won't respect it back. With teenagers, if you treat them like children they'll act like children. I've seen that very plainly with my students. The cameras have helped to create a divide where there really should be a sense of community. So I do think the cameras have their issues.

I honestly can't see the benefit of a language center having cameras in the classroom, it seems like a big investment for very little return. My experience with cameras is totally with regards to high school. My school is a boarding school, 10-12th grade. Discipline is an issue. It is absolutely essential that the principal and the students' lead teachers maintain a certain degree control over the student body. They are surrogates for their parents and have had these children's well being placed in their hands. Keeping order at school could be accomplished in a number of ways, our school chooses cameras. I'm not even sure the cameras are particularly effective, except for the fact that they do provide hard evidence that can be shown to the parents of what their kids are getting up to in school. Previously we've gone to parents with discipline issues and have had parents flat out deny that their little angel could ever behave that way. "He's never like that at home!" Well, he is at school, and now we have proof.

All that said, however we feel about being watched, this is China. What we (and the students) do in the classroom is being watched, whether it is through high technology or through the good old fashioned class spy (or both). The students know that what they do in the classroom is not going unnoticed, and if foreign teachers don't realize it, they should. People here ARE under a degree of constant surveillance and if sometimes it seems like we're not then that's only because we're not important enough for anyone to really care about what we're doing. Lets not go around thinking though that because we don't have obvious observers or cameras that no one is keeping tabs on our classroom. China is the wrong place to be if you have issues with surveillance.

*

Borkya

  • *
  • 1324
Re: classroom surveillance
« Reply #4 on: November 25, 2010, 01:12:07 PM »
Cameras in the classroom are hardly a problem unique to China. I know many schools in the US have cameras in the classrooms, not so much to monitor performance, but to protect their asses if something goes wrong. 

*

Foscolo

  • *
  • 525
  • Boom boom!
    • ELTpublishing
Re: classroom surveillance
« Reply #5 on: November 25, 2010, 01:26:21 PM »
School managers listen at the classroom door, the students give their opinions freely and frankly about the teacher, lessons may be observed from time to time by directors of studies sitting in and taking notes. As an ESL teacher you're already under surveillance. To me, cameras in the classroom just seems rude, and I'd walk away from that kind of school. If you really don't trust me to do my job then hire somebody else, you [insert a number of suitable words, the last one ending in "-sucker"]
Free stuff for teaching English with jokes: ESLjokes.net.

*

mlaeux

  • *
  • 1776
  • How's the water?
    • Fukushima has changed everything.
Re: classroom surveillance
« Reply #6 on: November 25, 2010, 03:03:39 PM »
In my old school system (in a little hick town - in FL) they built a brand new school. Every teacher in that school had to wear a microphone and was told that they were being recorded. Were there cameras in the classroom? I don't know, but they were in the hallway, as they are in every American school.
« Last Edit: November 25, 2010, 06:41:24 PM by mlaeux »

*

old34

  • *
  • 2509
Re: classroom surveillance
« Reply #7 on: November 25, 2010, 05:16:39 PM »
I emailed an old colleague at the college I taught at in America to ask her about camera-use there today. Here's her reply:

Quote
No cameras that I know of -- no strange little boxes suddenly appearing in the corner, either.  We have cameras linked to security in the halls, parking lots, etc.  The union would have apoplexy.
Knowledge is knowing that a tomato is a fruit; wisdom is knowing not to put it in a fruit salad. - B. O'Driscoll.
TIC is knowing that, in China, your fruit salad WILL come with cherry tomatoes AND all slathered in mayo. - old34.

*

fox

  • *
  • 696
Re: classroom surveillance
« Reply #8 on: November 25, 2010, 06:30:13 PM »
I don't think its a bad thing having cameras in the classrooms.   


yeah, i agree, if you've got nothing to hide and you try your level best to do a good job then it could prove useful to the chinese teachers to see your technique and teaching style. it might contribute to a better service for the students.  as a foreigner here , we see and do things differently, we have different attitudes and opinions and in the classroom its a chance for others to value what we can contribute. Its a good way to root out the deadwood too.
regard man as a mine rich in gems of inestimable value.

Re: classroom surveillance
« Reply #9 on: November 25, 2010, 08:02:01 PM »
I don't think anyone is actually arguing in favor of mass-surveillance Ben-Dan. In China of course everyone is already watched. It has gotten more high tech, of course, but arguably camereas are better than the good old fashioned method of neighbors ratting out neighbors. But the right or wrongs of that are not really up for discussion, are they? Or at least they shouldn't be downstairs in the public forum. You were talking about cameras in the classroom, but made the jump to cameras everywhere. I suppose you're making a slippery slope argument, but I feel like the whole thing is a bit of a red herring.

Aknowledging that there might be practical uses for cameras in SOME classrooms (has anyone heard of cameras set up specifically to monitor university teachers? language training center teachers?) is nowhere near the same thing as supporting mass surveillance for all citizens.

The counter argument to your slipperly slope would be that does a teacher's right to privacy extend to the classroom? If so, why? If you are working with young children especially, why should what goes on in the classroom be private? The classroom isn't your home, isn't your private space, and you don't have the right to do or say whatever you want there. That goes the same for American classrooms and Chinese classrooms, although the scope of what is permissible in the classroom might be different.

*

old34

  • *
  • 2509
Re: classroom surveillance
« Reply #10 on: November 26, 2010, 12:32:20 AM »

Check this from Wikipedia

Quote
As part of China's Golden Shield Project, several U.S. corporations such as IBM, General Electric, and Honeywell have been working closely with the Chinese government to install millions of surveillance cameras throughout China, along with advanced video analytics and facial recognition software, which will identify and track individuals everywhere they go. They will be connected to a centralized database and monitoring station, which will, upon completion of the project, contain a picture of the face of every person in China: over 1.3 billion people.[32] Lin Jiang Huai, the head of China's "Information Security Technology" office (which is in charge of the project), credits the surveillance systems in the United States and the U.K. as the inspiration for what he is doing with the Golden Shield project.[32]

ACK I WISH I HADN'T LOOKED INTO THIS. This is too depressing. The more I look into it the worse it gets.


Here, let me feed your paranoia research.

In a taxi stopped at a light last year next to a traffic crew that were doing traffic cam installation. It was a long light so I had time to snap what was on the truckbed next to me:
Knowledge is knowing that a tomato is a fruit; wisdom is knowing not to put it in a fruit salad. - B. O'Driscoll.
TIC is knowing that, in China, your fruit salad WILL come with cherry tomatoes AND all slathered in mayo. - old34.

*

old34

  • *
  • 2509
Re: classroom surveillance
« Reply #11 on: November 26, 2010, 12:41:07 AM »
The traffic cam boxes were labelled from "image sensing systems incorporated" (sic).

Here's that company's website:
http://www.imagesensing.com/

It's an American company based out of Minnesota.
Knowledge is knowing that a tomato is a fruit; wisdom is knowing not to put it in a fruit salad. - B. O'Driscoll.
TIC is knowing that, in China, your fruit salad WILL come with cherry tomatoes AND all slathered in mayo. - old34.

*

Ruth

  • *
  • 3349
Re: classroom surveillance
« Reply #12 on: November 26, 2010, 04:42:46 AM »
Yes, a teacher has a right to perform his or her job without being under surveillance if he or she is not genuinely suspected of doing anything wrong. It's a question of trust, autonomy, and authority. And by "right to privacy," here I mean to not be continuously watched or recorded while trying to perform your job.
I just finished reading all of the above posts.  This is where I have to disagree. In my home, off duty, I like to think I have privacy. That's where I believe I have a right to privacy, but that may not be true in this country in the same way that it is at home. I don't dwell on it.  On the job is another issue.  My employers pay my salary.  I'm a commodity, if you will, whatever job I perform, be it teacher or warehouse worker. If they want to see what they are getting for their dollar (or yuan), they are entitled.  There are cameras in the back of every classroom I teach in. I have no idea if they are on or off, who is watching, or who they are watching. I have nothing to hide and I seldom think about the cameras even being there (until this thread and the other one got me thinking about it). I'm either good at my job and giving the employer what they want, or I shouldn't be here.

That said, I agree with this:
Quote
It's just not a comfortable feeling having a camera trained on one. I'm saying I don't want to be under surveillance or have my every move potentially watched and recorded, if I can avoid it. It's not about assessing one's teaching, or protecting students, but about not being watched every moment.
If I dwelt on it or had experienced negative repercussions, I would probably feel this way.

An FT who is no longer employed here had an unpleasant experience (the one that made us all aware of the camera situation). On his first day of class in his second semester here, he was merrily going through the introduction process and getting to know his new students when in rushed some random person who began showing him how to turn on the computer and get everything going.  Totally interrupted the class.  Found out later that Mr. Interrupter had been observing the class and thought that the FT didn't know how to use the computer. Thought he'd be helpful. Well, it being the first lesson of the semester my colleague was doing without the computer and actually talking with the students. The FT got called on the carpet by the dean and was shown the video closet. I've never been privy to that tour, nor have I been interrupted like that or ever had my lessons discussed with me.  Not sure whether that means all the cameras in my rooms are broken, no one's on duty when I'm teaching, or I'm doing a satisfactory job.  To be honest, I'm usually so busy teaching that I just don't think about the cameras or trying to impress somebody behind the cameras.
If you want to walk on water, you have to get out of the boat.

*

Ruth

  • *
  • 3349
Re: classroom surveillance
« Reply #13 on: December 01, 2010, 08:52:26 PM »
Ben-Dan, this is obviously a sensitive issue for you.

I don't believe I lose my humanity or dignity because there are cameras in the back of my classrooms. Who is observing and whether or not they are qualified to do so has been a non-issue for me. If someone criticized my teaching or classroom environment based on an observation, that would be the point in time that I hope I would have a chance to explain myself. I don't know if I'm under constant surveillance or not. Could be, I suppose. It's never come up and I'm nearing the end of my 8th semester at this uni.

Quote
You give all the power to the employer. I had a Major League Asshole of a boss that made unreasonable demands on me and tried to rip me off in China. I fought the bastard by going over his head to regional management, and won every battle. If I just acquiesced and told myself I either suited his needs or not, I would have been a complete chump.
My situation is different than yours. No one is making unreasonable demands on me. I'm hired to do a job. I do it. If they want to make sure I'm doing it, I figure they have the right to do so. Mostly they leave me alone and let me do my own thing. I like that.

I was observed again today.  I'm not sure this was an 'official' visit, although the observer was a head teacher.  She's interested in my teaching methods. She and the dean specifically asked me to design and teach a new course this semester, which I have done. She tried earlier this semester to sit in on one of those classes, but apparently is a very busy lady. She chose today to sit in on one of my other classes. She still never got to see me 'teach' because she only stayed for the student presentation half of the class.

Something revealing occurred last night at English Club. We don't always meet in the same classroom because club activities are restricted to a certain number of classrooms and they are assigned on a weekly first-come-first-served basis.  Attempted to use the computer and projector, both of which were working, except the projector wasn't projecting an image onto the screen. Another FT jumped up on the desk and changed the setting on the projector.  Up popped the classroom scene on the big screen.  There we all were in living color, as captured by the camera at the back of the room. So now we know they work. We don't know if they are on 24/7 or whether English Club in particular was being observed. Changed the setting and carried on as usual.
If you want to walk on water, you have to get out of the boat.

*

Borkya

  • *
  • 1324
Re: classroom surveillance
« Reply #14 on: December 01, 2010, 10:19:27 PM »
Yeah Ben-Dan, I tend to agree more with Ruth. While you are at work they do have a right, as your employer, to monitor you. As an employee, you have the right to quit if you do not agree with their policies.

The only thing they should NOT do is hide the cameras and not tell you about it. That is dishonest. But if they are open about it, then you have option to continue working or not working. If this is such a big issue for you, and it seems it is, maybe you should not only ask the school before accepting a job, but maybe put something in your contract that says you can leave immediately with no penalty if you are being monitored by camera, or something like that.

Of course what they have no right to do is monitor you in your free time. The classroom is one thing, but outside the class, such as inside your office or apartment, should be a no camera zone. But nobody says they are being watched in their apartments, right?