Doing business in China

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Lotus Eater

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Doing business in China
« on: December 18, 2009, 09:13:36 PM »
The last line in this one should be a clear warning for those of you wanting to go into business with a local.

China holds US engineer on trade secrets charge (December 17, 2009, AP)
Chinese police have detained an American automotive engineer for more than a year on accusations he misused trade secrets - the latest case of vague secrecy laws being used against an American in China. Hu Zhicheng, a prize-winning designer of industrial catalysts to control auto emissions, has had letters from his family censored and has been denied reading materials during his detention in the port city of Tianjin, said the U.S. Embassy in Beijing. Last week police rejected an Old Testament he asked U.S. consular officers to bring him. The stern treatment is being meted out in a business dispute over an automobile technology. Hu told U.S. officials that investigators have threatened him with multimillion-dollar fines unless he gives the rights to his U.S.-registered patent to a former business partner in Tianjin.
« Last Edit: January 05, 2010, 02:32:07 PM by Lotus Eater »

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Eagle

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Re: Doing business in Cihna
« Reply #1 on: December 19, 2009, 06:21:21 AM »
Good warning, LE.  One must never forget that China isn't the USA, Canada, Australia or any other modern western world country.  China is a good place to visit and work when one has the proper visas and one closely follows the laowai expected behaviours.  If one wants it to be different, then China is not a good place to working.
“… whatever reality may be, it will to some extent be shaped by the lens
through which we see it.” (James Hollis)

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Escaped Lunatic

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Re: Doing business in Cihna
« Reply #2 on: December 19, 2009, 07:20:11 AM »
It also might be a good idea to make sure that super-valuable items like good patents are legally tied up in a way that prevents one person in China from being able to sign away the rights.

I'm pro-cloning and we vote!               Why isn't this card colored green?
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ting

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Re: Doing business in Cihna
« Reply #3 on: December 23, 2009, 11:08:17 PM »
they are real rascals, those chinese.  it's all political here. there is no law, no rights, no future that is not tied to politics-the CCP. but do we really know what is going on with this engineer? rumor, hearsay, suspicions...hardly concrete evidence of evil by the govt.  probably the govt is evil, yes i agree, but even in the west that bad a** shooter at Food Hood is 'innocent' till proven guilty. any chinese person who leaves china, takes another passport, risks plenty on their return here. if you have ever held a chinese passport, the CCP demands to know about it.  can threaten your family with the info. life here ain't for the weak kneed.

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xwarrior

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Re: Doing business in Cihna
« Reply #4 on: January 04, 2010, 02:46:18 PM »
Quote
they are real rascals, those chinese.  it's all political here. there is no law, no rights, no future that is not tied to politics-the CCP.

Get this - there is law in China, and you had better believe it. There may be issues with its implementation (erratic) and enforcement (sporadic and uneven) but the 'rule of law' is not just a political slogan.
If you have any doubts about that check out 'China Law Blog' at http://www.chinalawblog.com/. Although the focus of this blog is on law and business in China it does give a good insight to the Chinese system we face as teachers in China.
While a lot of the articles are business specific I find that most help to get the right 'attitude' to China - which is, that you had better 'do it right'.   

   
I have my standards. They may be low, but I have them.
- Bette Midler

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ting

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Re: Doing business in Cihna
« Reply #5 on: January 04, 2010, 05:21:31 PM »
oops, my  poor wording. of course china has laws.  what country does not? here however, and elsewhere, the law reflects a reality that is very different than the one the western folks are familiar with. in usa, in theory at least, the individual is the primary reason for governance and the law serves to give the individual person such attributes as freedom, rights and responsibilities.  here however, the individual in nowhere in sight of the law. the 'state' stands supreme over all. there is no possible recourse, if the 'law' (CCP) decides against the individual. the law serves the CCP, no other. now, the foreigners are also at risk of violating the 'law' and suffering the consequences, i surely agree. or have the '红包' packed and ready.

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xwarrior

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Re: Doing business in Cihna
« Reply #6 on: January 04, 2010, 09:12:45 PM »
No problem! I could see what you were on about and only picked up on that wording because too many people back home think that China is still ruled by the will of the Chairman.
To be honest, on a daily basis I feel more free living in China than in any Western country. Anyone who believes we are from the lands of the 'free' is ignoring the raft of legislation that now limits our actions and the 'political correctness that circumscribes our lives.
At the same time, I too, always have my suitcase packed.
Now I think I will go out and sit at a table in the street, have a beer (at 3RMB a bottle)and a cigarette (at 5RMB a packet) and look at beautiful girls going by ...... while I reflect on life back home.
I have my standards. They may be low, but I have them.
- Bette Midler

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George

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Re: Doing business in Cihna
« Reply #7 on: January 04, 2010, 10:04:30 PM »
Quote
Now I think I will go out and sit at a table in the street, have a beer (at 3RMB a bottle)and a cigarette (at 5RMB a packet) and look at beautiful girls going by ...... while I reflect on life back home.
Too bloody cold to sit in the street at the moment, but reflecting on life back home? Yeah, when I am sitting in the street drinking beer.....ummm, home was never like this!
The higher they fly, the fewer!    http://neilson.aminus3.com/

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DWA

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Re: Doing business in Cihna
« Reply #8 on: January 05, 2010, 12:02:39 AM »
 What George and Xwarrior said.....

Go home? ? ?  Where is home ?  The old adage goes "Home is where the heart is" and for me, THIS IS home !

The America I knew as a child some 45 years ago has faded into history, never to be seen again by this or any other generation.  With the Homeland Security stuff, America is no longer the home of the brave, land of the Free......There is no freedom in the US any more.  It has become the type of country/government we send our brave young soldiers to die for to free other peoples from.  (Bad grammar, I know, but makes the point better !!)

I, like many of you, have found great freedom here in China....in many, many areas of life.....and would not have most of them when we return to the US. 

Eat my supper, breakfast, lunch on sidewalk?   NOT EVER !
Have a beer on the sidewalk?                   NOT ! 
Buy my vegetables and meat on the sidewalk?    Not in a thousand years !
Buy a quality Winter coat on the sidewalk?             NOT   !

I DON'T THINK SO IN AMERICA !!!!     There are the Unions, National Health Organization, the Local Health Department and thousands of other agencies that see to it there is no free and unencumbered market anymore.

Am I down on American right now? ?   You betcha !   Too Damn many people looking for the fast buck and everyone out to scam someone.  AND, on top of that, is the "I don't care" attitude which drives me crazy!

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xwarrior

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Re: Doing business in Cihna
« Reply #9 on: January 05, 2010, 01:46:35 AM »
You are dead right, George - it is too cold to drink in the streets. I have moved into my winter mode - which is to go into a small restaurant and ask if its ok to order beer instead of food. The answer is totally predictable and the welcome overwhelming. Maybe I should try that back home - on April Fools Day.
Sounds like DWA and I are from the same generation...... well, anyone that can remember what it was like back then has got to be on my side of the divide. The USA is not the only country run by wankers who have nothing better to do than meddle in the lives of others. As soon as politicians realised that political and economic reform was too big for them they went for the easy one - social reform.
Sorry ...... the topic! Lotus Eater was quite right to draw our attention to the plight of that individual. Unfortunately, as is so often the case in China, the situation may not be as clear-cut as the article proposes. 'China Law Blog' has accounts of many similar situations and often the aggrieved party has not taken all the right steps to secure their rights . . .and Step 1 is to remember the advice given in the heading of one of his articles; "China Criminal And Business Law. You Are Not In Kansas Any More.

 
   
I have my standards. They may be low, but I have them.
- Bette Midler

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mlaeux

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Re: Doing business in Cihna
« Reply #10 on: January 05, 2010, 06:34:48 AM »
Quote
The America I knew as a child some 45 years ago has faded into history, never to be seen again by this or any other generation.  With the Homeland Security stuff, America is no longer the home of the brave, land of the Free......There is no freedom in the US any more.  It has become the type of country/government we send our brave young soldiers to die for to free other peoples from.
It ain't what it used to be, that's for sure.

Quote
Sounds like DWA and I are from the same generation...... well, anyone that can remember what it was like back then has got to be on my side of the divide. The USA is not the only country run by wankers who have nothing better to do than meddle in the lives of others. As soon as politicians realised that political and economic reform was too big for them they went for the easy one - social reform.
Don't get me started.  llllllllll

I have boycotted the major media outlets. Too much NLP mind manipulation going on for my tastes. What ever happened to the days of Edward R. Morrow and Walter Cronkite.  In the words of Joe Friday, "Just the facts ma'am."

Re: Doing business in China
« Reply #11 on: February 12, 2010, 06:38:59 PM »
Hi I am new here name is Dennis.
Just read the comments about business people being arrested.I guess most people (in Australia at least) would know about Mr Stern Hu, Chinese chief executive for Rio Tinto. He was arrested in July last year for "stealing state secrets" I guess you need to know the beast and behave accordingly. He would also have comitted the crime of relinquishing his Chinese passport in favour of an Australian one.

As for "Freedoms" well those from US should not feel alone, the health and safety, roads and traffic even the "bin" police,, checking your re cycling is not mixed,up have made life more stressful and boring and just plain difficult. Australia sure is not the same as it used to be.

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Borkya

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Re: Doing business in Cihna
« Reply #12 on: February 12, 2010, 08:40:07 PM »
To be honest, on a daily basis I feel more free living in China than in any Western country. Anyone who believes we are from the lands of the 'free' is ignoring the raft of legislation that now limits our actions and the 'political correctness that circumscribes our lives.

So true! I am constantly trying to explain this to my students when they talk about envying western students for their "freedom." I say on some level, yes, but on other levels not at all!

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xwarrior

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Re: Doing business in China
« Reply #13 on: February 13, 2010, 03:04:37 AM »
At last New Zealand has a Prime Minister who has some common sense:

"A proposal to ban smoking at beaches and other public places doesn't have the support of Prime Minister John Key, who thinks it is too "nanny state".

"I don't want to get into a nanny state where I am telling people absolutely how they run their lives in every form."


It is still not enough to draw me home - not when cigarettes cost 10x the price in China.  bjbjbjbjbj
I have my standards. They may be low, but I have them.
- Bette Midler