Don't globalize me, bro!

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Lotus Eater

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Re: Don't globalize me, bro!
« Reply #45 on: January 23, 2010, 11:19:37 PM »
You can't spell "uniquely valuable" without a, l, i, e, and n.

Too cheesy for you CP!!!  aaaaaaaaaa 

Historically the 'alien' has been highlighted to enable us to kill with impunity.  We created the "g**ks" "sp*cs"  etc etc and they became 'other', so it was OK.  We continue to do it with the ethnic groupings in the Middle East.

We have become too sophisticated to OVERTLY believe that skin colour, eye shape etc create 'aliens', so we search desperately for a 'deeper' 'basic' 'foundational' difference to differentiate ourselves from others; to, in the end, justify atrocities we commit.

If this 'foundational' difference can't be seen from the outside, can't be defined from the inside, maybe, just maybe - it doesn't exist.  Maybe culture is really the manifest and expressed - and that changes, and with globalisation will change more quickly.

When the outerspace 'aliens' come, we will talk about the sanctity of 'human' culture, leaving behind the 'supposed' foundational differences between Chinese and Australians, Muslims and Christians.

Re: Don't globalize me, bro!
« Reply #46 on: January 23, 2010, 11:42:05 PM »
One is not obliged to kill the other.  Inclined, yes.  But not obliged.

With respect to globalisation, one claim I saw attributed to whatisname, the last British governor of Hong Kong, was that specifically Chinese values were a crock when it came to doing business.  He said (something like) their insistence that Chinese values be respected was nothing less than a way for "them" to gain competitive advantage.

Now, I think there is probably some merit to this claim.  The Chinese after all are not automatically so short sighted as to not see that making visitors bend to unfamiliar and destabilising rules that promote a lack of transparency is useful.

However, "they" are still not working from a western base.  In speaking of Chinese values they are not solely hoping to create a useful smokescreen from behind which to win.  If they are, it's a surprisingly long lasting ploy, and who are they really underneath all that window dressing.

If Chinese are just playing a long game, it's reasonable to call them on it and expect them to get real.  If they're not, then something of what they're doing now is real already.  In which case... I dunno, they're owed the right to be real?

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Lotus Eater

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Re: Don't globalize me, bro!
« Reply #47 on: January 24, 2010, 02:32:16 AM »
We are not obliged to kill - but when we do, our psyche needs to be able to live with itself.  Therefore we create 'the other' - alien, different, not us.  Strange in some unnameable way.  

Of course Chinese values are to be respected - when they are definable and real, just like ours. So are individual values.  Undefinable values can't be respected.  I respect those who chose to live their life espousing some form of religion - I would campaign vigorously on their behalf to be allowed to freedom to believe something that I don't believe in - any form.  I would campaign equally vigorously for those to be able to criticise those beliefs.  I DO campaign vigorously for human rights, freedom of speech - all concepts.  But definable concepts.

But when we are talking an undefinable, nameless 'otherness', then we are walking the path of dangerous discrimination.


Watching Avatar and District 9 with this discussion in the background is magic. bfbfbfbfbf
« Last Edit: January 24, 2010, 03:06:23 AM by Lotus Eater »

Re: Don't globalize me, bro!
« Reply #48 on: January 24, 2010, 12:49:13 PM »
We are not obliged to kill - but when we do, our psyche needs to be able to live with itself.  Therefore we create 'the other' - alien, different, not us.  Strange in some unnameable way.  

Of course Chinese values are to be respected - when they are definable and real, just like ours. So are individual values.  Undefinable values can't be respected.  I respect those who chose to live their life espousing some form of religion - I would campaign vigorously on their behalf to be allowed to freedom to believe something that I don't believe in - any form.  I would campaign equally vigorously for those to be able to criticise those beliefs.  I DO campaign vigorously for human rights, freedom of speech - all concepts.  But definable concepts.

And if their value system does not include routinely reenergising that value system by going over it again with a fine tooth comb and saying what it is?

Sure, it's better, much better, if everything is above board.  All things run better too if all participants know and can express their stake in whatever's going on.  Negotiations would be that much better if everyone knew what they wanted and made mention of it at the right time.

Insisting that they do or be ignored, that's a tad legalistic, innit?  "You didn't say so before, so you can't have it now, that's the rulez buddy!"

Actually, it's a fairly hardcore individualistic system you got going there: one stands up for one's rights or one has none.

Quote
But when we are talking an undefinable, nameless 'otherness', then we are walking the path of dangerous discrimination.

Are not.

Happiness is a warm diversity.


(With mysterious parts still available to be discovered because no one knew to talk about them before.)

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Lotus Eater

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Re: Don't globalize me, bro!
« Reply #49 on: January 24, 2010, 03:18:05 PM »

 one stands up for one's rights or one has none.


Yes - you know that from history, from the civil rights movements, from the Oz union movement, the ILO and a thousand more examples.

Every day you need to ensure that your rights are protected or you will lose them, through legal machinations, through 'lurve', through 'benefit of others', 'commnon good', 'homeland protection', 'economic recession'  etc etc.  Any time one human being has any level of power over any other living thing, then rights are in danger unless there is vigorous defence of them.

We've also moved away from the cultural and onto the individual - individual unconsciousness, mystery, diversity works, because we relate or not relate on an individual level.  Hero worship of the eccentric, bullying of the weird.  But when you are ascribing an unknownable 'alienness' to a group you are ensuring barriers are kept in place, that 'our group' retains the capacity for 'dehumanising' that 'alien' group.  We retain the power of saying - they are not like us, they have this 'culture' that can never be changed, they will never fit in with us - and therefore it doesn't matter if we annihilate them, we don't have to think of them as being 'us'.

Historical and current examples abound.

Re: Don't globalize me, bro!
« Reply #50 on: January 24, 2010, 08:50:28 PM »

 one stands up for one's rights or one has none.


Yes - you know that from history, from the civil rights movements, from the Oz union movement, the ILO and a thousand more examples.

Every day you need to ensure that your rights are protected or you will lose them, through legal machinations, through 'lurve', through 'benefit of others', 'commnon good', 'homeland protection', 'economic recession'  etc etc.  Any time one human being has any level of power over any other living thing, then rights are in danger unless there is vigorous defence of them.

The pragmatics here seem to be misplaced.  In the presence of imperial force, the onus is on the soon-to-be-colonised party to fight back, and if they don't, they had it coming?

That might work as a motivating speech before a battle when the full and only focus of the day were the battle itself.  But generally speaking, equating the merit of a position with the active passion with which it is held is going to lead many people down many a twisting path.  History is rife with examples of that too.

For another thing, it lets one say such odd things as "this concepts has historically be used for oppression, therefore it must be resisted."  Why?  Does it not describe something real, or what?

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