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Author Topic: Little Brats  (Read 12079 times)

A-Train

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Re: Little Brats
« Reply #30 on: May 07, 2009, 08:01:02 PM »
"Kids are their future, so they have to beat them into shape."

Is this how they produce conformity and group allegiance in lieu of individuality?
"The young do not know enough to be prudent, and therefore attempt the impossible and achieve it, generation after generation.

Pearl S. Buck

Con ate dog

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Re: Little Brats
« Reply #31 on: May 09, 2009, 03:34:44 PM »
Yes.

But don't overlook the benefits of that high level of investment.  That much grownup face time (parents plus grandparents) aids a child's development in a huge way.
And there is no liar like the indignant man... -Nietszche

Nothing is so fatiguing as the eternal hanging on of an uncompleted task. -William James

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Re: Little Brats
« Reply #32 on: May 10, 2009, 11:48:36 PM »
Although that doesn't seem to translate well when compared with western children of the same age.  There seems to be a short lag in the reaching of milestones with the Chinese littlies.

Con ate dog

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Re: Little Brats
« Reply #33 on: May 15, 2009, 08:34:27 AM »
Although that doesn't seem to translate well when compared with western children of the same age.  There seems to be a short lag in the reaching of milestones with the Chinese littlies.

In what sense, cognitive, educational, emotional or physical?
And there is no liar like the indignant man... -Nietszche

Nothing is so fatiguing as the eternal hanging on of an uncompleted task. -William James

englishmoose.com

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Re: Little Brats
« Reply #34 on: May 15, 2009, 01:56:17 PM »
From observation - NOT scientific at all - pretty much all of the above.  All of the carrying around delays crawling and walking.  The constant attention to need without requiring some verbalisation delays verbal communication strategy development a little, the instant gratification delays emotional development and reinforces the sense of self as the most important entity in the world.

It would be really interesting to see if these observations had any validity.

Mr Nobody

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Re: Little Brats
« Reply #35 on: May 15, 2009, 05:53:33 PM »
They panic a lot about little miss N. She is three in september.

She falls over and dusts herself off, and tells them to leave her alone. She plays in the water, doesnt' care about it, the teachers complain, saying she will get sick. She doesn't.

She out competes the boys in her class, let alone the girls. She also pushes them to play harder, etc

She speaks better Chinese than her peers, and speaks better English than her teachers.

Has opinions and preferences, and is stubborn. Apparently that is bad.

MKay em.

Just the way I like it.
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The Local Dialect

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Re: Little Brats
« Reply #36 on: May 16, 2009, 04:24:24 PM »
From observation - NOT scientific at all - pretty much all of the above.  All of the carrying around delays crawling and walking.  The constant attention to need without requiring some verbalisation delays verbal communication strategy development a little, the instant gratification delays emotional development and reinforces the sense of self as the most important entity in the world.

It would be really interesting to see if these observations had any validity.

I don't know about that really. I've found, just from obsessively comparing observing kids the same age as my son, that Chinese kids seem to crawl and walk at pretty much the same time that kids back home do. My son walked a bit late at 15 months and was one of the last among the relatively small group of Chinese babies in our neighborhood to do so. I do think perhaps they're not as verbal as kids back home are. We've met a lot of kids my son's age or older who aren't very advanced verbally, but I'm not sure what I'd chalk this up to. My son has only a handful of words at 18 months, so he's not ahead by any means either. At 14 months when he wasn't talking yet our Chinese doctor wanted to have him evaluated. A lot of people say it's a boy thing. More people say its because I'm foreign and his language might be "confused." But the expectation seems to be there that kids should be talking around 1-2 years, just like back home.

But then again, I also live in Beijing, where the parents, especially the upper class ones, are pretty competitive. There are also shows on TV here talking about child development and they'll pretty much tell you that if your child isn't talking by X months he's abnormal, or if he skips crawling and goes straight to walking it means he'll have a lower IQ, and a lot of stuff from "experts" that seems pretty much designed to freak out parents and make them obsess even more.

Mr Nobody

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Re: Little Brats
« Reply #37 on: May 18, 2009, 01:41:45 AM »
The kids here do seem to be behind western standards for walking, running, hopping, opening bottles, drinking without spilling, etc. In these Little Miss N is about a year ahead. Her Chinese was behind a little, but now she is in front as well as about up to par for English. She's 2 1/2.

Actually, the kids are pretty hopeless. Miss N leads them around by the nose a lot of the time. The teacher's don't like her playing independantly apparently, either. This is a HOT climate, and they hate the fact she likes playing with water.

I mean, they are still hand-feeding children, especially boys, here when they are in primary school. It's disgusting. Plus, if they run into a table or something, they hit the table, like it's the inanimate object's fault. I yelled at a nanny for doing this with our kid, but it seems pretty common. Like sobbing breaths to get what they want. I am considering taking her out of 'school' (Ok, its really a kind of directed day care) for learning these bad habits. Also, they don't tell the kids off when they just drop stuff on the floor, and my neighbours actually taught my kid to draw on the floor. She came home, and grabbed a permanent marker and drew throughout the whole house. She hasn't done that since she was about 18 months. They couldn't see why I was upset. Actually, Mrs N couldn't see much problem either, to tell the truth. That's what kids do, apparently. But I spent 3 hours getting the shit off the walls with alcohol and elbow grease.
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The Local Dialect

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Re: Little Brats
« Reply #38 on: May 18, 2009, 03:18:23 AM »
The kids here do seem to be behind western standards for walking, running, hopping, opening bottles, drinking without spilling, etc. In these Little Miss N is about a year ahead. Her Chinese was behind a little, but now she is in front as well as about up to par for English. She's 2 1/2.

Actually, the kids are pretty hopeless. Miss N leads them around by the nose a lot of the time. The teacher's don't like her playing independantly apparently, either. This is a HOT climate, and they hate the fact she likes playing with water.

My kid loves playing with water too, and it drives the Chinese crazy! He also gets down on the ground, on his knees, tries to eat random stuff -- I mean, he's an 18 month old boy, so they get dirty! But if he ever so much as even touches something that isn't one of his own, personal, belongings they'll snatch it away and yell "dirty!" I mean, I don't want my kid wallowing in filth, but this obsession with keeping kids immaculate goes a bit overboard. My son has only been sick once so far in his little 18 month old life, while we have Chinese friends whose kids have been sick non-stop since infant-hood, so obviously all the dirt and germs aren't hurting him that much.

You know what else has always surprised me? That Chinese kids don't assert their own independence more. I always thought that was just part of being a toddler. My son often won't let us feed him, he insists on feeding himself (even though he's hopeless with a spoon) and drinking on his own. He doesn't let us hold his hand, and often doesn't want to be carried. I don't know that Chinese kids are developmentally behind, but they do seem a lot more complacent and willing to bend to the wills of their parents, even at such a young age.

Mr Nobody

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Re: Little Brats
« Reply #39 on: May 18, 2009, 04:37:37 AM »
Thanks for that. My daughter is the same.

I am glad to hear that others have the same experience and I can tell Mrs N so she can relax a bit. The clash of cultures gets to her a bit at times, I think.
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Ruth

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Re: Little Brats
« Reply #40 on: May 18, 2009, 07:23:43 AM »
This seems as good a thread as any to post my observation and question.  Not exactly 'brat' behavior, but something about childhood here I don't understand.

On the bus - I see young people giving up their seats to the elderly, pregnant women and people with babies.  That all makes good sense to me.  Common courtesy where I come from, too.  I've also observed - several times, which makes me think it's a common occurence - people giving up their seats for children.  Not toddlers or wee ones, but kids about 8-10 years old.  Sometimes these kids are with a parent or grandparent and the kid will get the seat before Grandpa, because Grandpa lets him.  Nothing wrong with the kids' legs or energy level or anything that I can see.  Why do they rate the special attention?  Especially in a culture of elbows and shoving and 'every person for him/herself' that is common crowded bus behavior here?
If you want to walk on water, you have to get out of the boat.

babala

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Re: Little Brats
« Reply #41 on: May 18, 2009, 08:18:22 PM »
Ruth I noticed this too. I can understand for a little one who can't stand but not when the child is more capable than the grannie. I would guess that it's just part of the protective behaviour towards the child.

Something I was thinking about lately was that it seems that some parents both Chinese and Western are more likely to take a child shopping instead of taking them to a park or somewhere that would allow them to play. I'm not referring to taking a child along when you are running errands which is just a part of daily life but I'm talking about free time. Why don't more parents take the kids to a playground instead of out shopping. It's free and allows the kids to get exercise and get rid of some of their energy (instead of drugging them up because they are too hyper).
Kids, you tried your best and you failed miserably. The lesson is, never try. Homer Simpson

Mr Nobody

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Re: Little Brats
« Reply #42 on: May 18, 2009, 11:31:57 PM »
I have had kids try to push me out of a seat on a bus.

I don't know why they let the little brat sit when they have an armful of groceries and obviously tired, but I see it a lot. Where I come from, the kid stands up for the parents.
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Ruth

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Re: Little Brats
« Reply #43 on: May 19, 2009, 02:52:29 AM »
That's what I'm talking about.  Does anyone have insight into why? 

I get the feeling 'childhood' ends at the end of 6th grade.  Once they enter middle school they are focused on exams and ranking and getting into a good high school and then getting into a good university.  Maybe for those first 12 years of life they get the pampered routine and then it suddenly ends.
If you want to walk on water, you have to get out of the boat.

The Local Dialect

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Re: Little Brats
« Reply #44 on: May 19, 2009, 03:09:21 AM »
Maybe it is just that most Chinese people really like kids and usually go out of their way to be nice to families with children. It also might be thinking that it is dangerous for kids to be standing on the bus if they can't reach the handgrips up top. Busses here get crowded and you can't always hold onto a seat to steady yourself, so maybe that's it? It does seem that once they hit about 12 years old they start giving up their seats on their own (they are taught to in school as well), but by 8 or so they really should be old/big enough to stand if they have to.