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Author Topic: pay-offs as a way of life  (Read 7455 times)

fox

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Re: pay-offs as a way of life
« Reply #15 on: October 05, 2008, 05:37:09 AM »
running businesses in the uk for years had me giving gratuity gifts on a regular basis to ensure contract renewals. Hell there was even a space on the tax form for it.

Is that bribes? getting to know the managers family, birthdays and stuff that his kids are into enabled me to give useful gifts to him.  Hell it all goes on.  it certainly build a broad network of business acquaintances but a whole bunch of genuine friends too. Even though the contracts where fulfilled correctly and economically its not just those things that will get them renewed. Its the personal touches, If you are known to be an honest keep to your word kind of guy then thats ok, but if you have the interest of others at heart too then that goes a long way. The difference is are you doing it for personal unselfish reasons? I dont think we do anything in this life for totally unselfish reasons, there is always personal gain whether we like it or not.
regard man as a mine rich in gems of inestimable value.

Lotus Eater

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Re: pay-offs as a way of life
« Reply #16 on: October 05, 2008, 05:46:37 AM »
I don't think they think it is a good way of life, but rather see it as inevitable.  They will all tell stories about the teachers, students, other business people, gov't officials who are corrupt, they will deplore it ... but with an air of resignation.

What they don't see is a way to stop it, which we in the west kid ourselves believe we can do.

When you have a body like the World Bank making annual assessments of how corrupt countries are (and we are talking LEAST corrupt - not 'not corrupt'), then there is a pretty major acceptance around the world that this is normal activity.  And when some of the biggest/most powerful/most influential countries in the world don't make it to the top 10 of the least corrupt countries - then we know it is ingrained within the systems across the world.

Day Dreamer

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Re: pay-offs as a way of life
« Reply #17 on: October 05, 2008, 09:44:57 AM »
Each industry draws its line at the bribe/referral fee/thank you line. I've been on both side of the equation in different industries. Funny, there is no concensus as to how far to go. I've heard good arguments for both side of the fences.

My advice? What does your gut and heart tell you. I've always had a personal philosophy; can I sell/buy/do/whatever this thing to my mother?

Yes, I loved my mom
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Foscolo

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Re: pay-offs as a way of life
« Reply #18 on: October 05, 2008, 12:58:18 PM »
A friend of mine works for an investment fund. His job is to visit the people behind potential projects and decide whether or not to invest his firm's money in the start-up. He's been to China several times, and every time decided that despite good potential in the projects, his firm could not be associated with the grubby shenanigans that would inevitably result from doing business with the Chinese outfit concerned. The losers are those Chinese business people. They don't get the investment they need to start up - and just because they don't seem to appreciate the extent to which Western business practices are different to theirs. You want big-nose's money, you've got to accept a particular set of ground rules. Is that cultural imperialism? Well maybe, but that's the way is.
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Ruth

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Re: pay-offs as a way of life
« Reply #19 on: October 05, 2008, 02:44:04 PM »
Day Dreamer, Brampton is my hometown, just down the road from Newmarket.  A street near my mom's house was made one-way traffic many years ago, when a resident of that street was on the city council.  Why did her street get made one-way?  To cut down on the traffic flow through her neighborhood.  It would save a lot of congestion at the corner near my mom's house if people could use that other street as a short cut, but NO.  Not exactly corruption, but certainly making self-serving decisions and abuse of power.

Lotus Eater, I think that's what really bothers me - the resignation to the way things are.  There are many folk in my home country who get riled up when they hear about corruption.  I don't see that in China.  Maybe it's dangerous for them to express disapproval.  Maybe I'm just not in the in-group enough to hear the disapproval.  Maybe they've given up and accepted life the way it is with no hope of changing it for the better.  But Foscolo's got a point about clashes in business between the two philosophies.
If you want to walk on water, you have to get out of the boat.

Lotus Eater

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Re: pay-offs as a way of life
« Reply #20 on: October 05, 2008, 03:07:40 PM »
You want big-nose's money, you've got to accept a particular set of ground rules. Is that cultural imperialism? Well maybe, but that's the way is.


  But Foscolo's got a point about clashes in business between the two philosophies.

And if the west wants Chinese investment .. all $21.16 billion of it in 2006, with a 60% growth rate - we will do business the Chinese way??   ahahahahah ahahahahah ahahahahah

fox

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Re: pay-offs as a way of life
« Reply #21 on: October 06, 2008, 02:20:36 AM »
Brampton is my hometown,

i used to go to brampton and colne for the blues festivals each year. cant beat Lancashire hospitality.
regard man as a mine rich in gems of inestimable value.

babala

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Re: pay-offs as a way of life
« Reply #22 on: October 06, 2008, 02:49:11 AM »
I find it's my students who often bring up the subject (I teach adults) quite often. It's one of the issues I find they get heated about. They don't like the system but all tend to agree that "it's just too big to stop". I think that falls in with the univeral answer "because there are some many people in China" which seems to be the response for many a problem.

Politics are one thing but it is a sad state that you have to bribe them at the hosptial to perform your operation the right way  :snoopytrage:
Kids, you tried your best and you failed miserably. The lesson is, never try. Homer Simpson

Ruth

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Re: pay-offs as a way of life
« Reply #23 on: October 06, 2008, 09:17:37 AM »
Or at the schools to educate your children.

fox, I think my Brampton (Ontario bmbmbmbmbm) was named after your Brampton.
If you want to walk on water, you have to get out of the boat.

fox

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Re: pay-offs as a way of life
« Reply #24 on: October 06, 2008, 11:50:28 AM »
Or at the schools to educate your children.

fox, I think my Brampton (Ontario bmbmbmbmbm) was named after your Brampton.

ah ok. i did wonder when you said it was 'down' the road from newmarket. In the uk it is 'up' the road from newmarket.  hahaha. the new settlers could have been a bit more creative with their names instead of copying where they probably came from.
regard man as a mine rich in gems of inestimable value.

Ruth

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Re: pay-offs as a way of life
« Reply #25 on: October 06, 2008, 02:05:59 PM »
They must have been homesick.  Lotsa names in Canada from the old country.  My sons were born in London.  (not the one in England)
If you want to walk on water, you have to get out of the boat.

Worldtour

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Re: pay-offs as a way of life
« Reply #26 on: June 29, 2009, 11:55:16 AM »
I think we can all agree that there is corruption in most countries, it just takes different forms.  However, I have seen few places where it is so endemic as it is here in China.  It runs through just about every aspect of life.  People pay off others to get jobs where they can bilk others to expedite a process.  Licenses, deeds, admissions to schools, virtually everything.  Those that seem to like it least are the ones who have no power to do it to others, this is why people will take a job in government at a very low wage.  I know a policeman who said his salary about 2k a month but he drives a Land Cruiser, his wife drives a Lexus.  This is the aspiration of many to become one of those people.  The euphemism of Guanxi masks a darker reality of control.  If you have been in China long enough you may have heard this.  "It's not the rule that is important it is who controls the rule."

AMonk

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Re: pay-offs as a way of life
« Reply #27 on: June 29, 2009, 03:14:43 PM »
Like the Golden Rule?  He who has the Gold makes the Rules afafafafaf
Moderation....in most things...

StMichael

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Re: pay-offs as a way of life
« Reply #28 on: July 12, 2009, 08:39:05 AM »
And caning is just the least you can get, in my squeaky clean incorruptible country held to great moral high standards. Of course, to get that moral high standards, our politicians are paid the HIGHEST salaries in the world, LEGALLY. It is really hard to believe that the Prime Minister of a country of 4 million is paid more than twice that of the President of the United States.

Sigh. So many corrupt politicians. Some corrupt under the table, some corrupt openly, and now you can even get corrupt LEGALLY.

Singapore cheated.  Perceiving their country as corrupt is an offense punishable by caning.

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Michael Chan
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