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Author Topic: pay-offs as a way of life  (Read 7454 times)

Ruth

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pay-offs as a way of life
« on: October 05, 2008, 02:13:22 AM »
Background:  (I'll try to keep it brief.) My pre-China job was working in a Medicaid waiver program for the Department of Disabilities in Florida.  I was a program analyst.  My job was to determine what services people in the program were qualified to receive and how much money to allocate to said services.  There were checks and balances all over the place.  I could no more give someone something they weren't qualified for than I could fly to the moon.  Nor could my supervisor.  Nor could the bosses in the state capital head office.  Once my colleagues and I were given Christmas presents from one of the providers of services we approved.  We had to return them, even though it upset the giver (nevermind us).  We could not accept lunch or dinner from clients or providers if the cost was over $25.  Our supervisor told us that if we did go out with these people, better just to pay our own way rather than being accused of being on the take.  So, enter this information into the minds of Chinese...

I had this conversation with a Chinese businessman some time ago and most recently with a group of students.  The reaction was that my job was very powerful and I could get very rich when people paid me off.   bibibibibi Yeah, right. And I could lose my job and go to jail, too.  The Chinese just don't get it.  And I really don't get their system, either.

We discussed how teachers in middle school and high school get money from parents so that their children will have the best seats and get the most attention in class.  How paying certain officials can make traffic infractions disappear.  How buildings get 'inspected' and then fall down in earthquakes when others around them don't.

I'm not saying these situations don't happen in my home countries.  They do.  It's just not accepted as a way of life by the general population as it is here.  Thoughts, anyone?
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ericthered

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Re: pay-offs as a way of life
« Reply #1 on: October 05, 2008, 02:23:49 AM »
Corruption at all levels seem to be an almost unavoidable part of Chinese society, however, I would argue that shady deals, kick-backs, the infamous little brown envelopes and money under the table are to be found in a much larger scale in the West than we imagine. The difference is that the Chinese have long since accepted that corruption exist, just like people in the 1920's, 30's and 40's accepted that they wouold have to pay "protection money" to the Mob. For that matter, corruption can work in many subtle ways. Rich alumni donating huge sums of cash to their alma mater and, for some reason, their dim-witted quarterback of a son just sort of happens to not go on academic probation because he spends less time at the library than with his head down a keg.
Corruption, IMHO, is to be found everywhere, some places are just more open about it.
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"It's all oojah cum spiffy". Bertie Wooster.
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Escaped Lunatic

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Re: pay-offs as a way of life
« Reply #2 on: October 05, 2008, 02:32:19 AM »
Ruth,

Just to reassure you that corruption is alive and well in the Sunshine State, the bulk of the Hillsborough County Commission went to jail last year (and that was not the first time that the County Commissioners there have made a mass movement from their offices straight to the County Jail.

Corruption occurs in most governments.  Some are just a bit more straightforward about it.
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Ruth

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Re: pay-offs as a way of life
« Reply #3 on: October 05, 2008, 02:38:13 AM »
I know I'm naive and my middle name is Pollyanna.  What you guys are saying is true.  But the fact that the county commissioners have moved their butts to the county jail shows some hope, doesn't it?
If you want to walk on water, you have to get out of the boat.

Escaped Lunatic

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Re: pay-offs as a way of life
« Reply #4 on: October 05, 2008, 02:43:59 AM »
It would be a sign of hope, except that it seems to be a recurring problem.  For every corrupt Florida politician who gets arrested or thrown out of office, there are two more standing in line ready to step up and accept the bribes.

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Lotus Eater

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Re: pay-offs as a way of life
« Reply #5 on: October 05, 2008, 02:56:41 AM »
And we can go pretty much to the top in any country - George W's electoral victories, Joh Bjelke Petersen in Q'ld, etc etc.

The World Bank has a corruption index - least corrupt countries are
Quote
The ten countries perceived to be least corrupt, according to the 2007 Corruption Perceptions Index, are Denmark, Finland, New Zealand, Singapore, Sweden, Iceland, The Netherlands, Switzerland, Canada, and Norway.

USA and Oz don't make it to the top 10 least corrupt countries. ananananan ananananan

dragonsaver

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Re: pay-offs as a way of life
« Reply #6 on: October 05, 2008, 03:01:51 AM »
 bmbmbmbmbm bmbmbmbmbm bmbmbmbmbm
Be kind to dragons for thou are crunchy when roasted and taste good with brie.

ericthered

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Re: pay-offs as a way of life
« Reply #7 on: October 05, 2008, 03:03:45 AM »
 cgcgcgcgcg cgcgcgcgcg cgcgcgcgcg Happiest and most incorruptible country agagagagag agagagagag
"Anyone who lives within their means suffers from a lack of imagination." Oscar Wilde.

"It's all oojah cum spiffy". Bertie Wooster.
"The stars are God's daisy chain" Madeleine Bassett.

Escaped Lunatic

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Re: pay-offs as a way of life
« Reply #8 on: October 05, 2008, 03:15:15 AM »
Singapore cheated.  Perceiving their country as corrupt is an offense punishable by caning.

 cbcbcbcbcb cbcbcbcbcb cbcbcbcbcb cbcbcbcbcb
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Lotus Eater

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Re: pay-offs as a way of life
« Reply #9 on: October 05, 2008, 03:23:02 AM »
bmbmbmbmbm bmbmbmbmbm bmbmbmbmbm

I think this was done before the Canadian PM stole John Howard's speech!! ahahahahah

Day Dreamer

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Re: pay-offs as a way of life
« Reply #10 on: October 05, 2008, 03:25:58 AM »
Ruthy sweetheart, I was living in a nice bedroom town of Newmarket, Ontario. Population then, 50,000 about an hour north of Toronto. Town mayor Ray Twinney decided to build a new town hall (and other nonrequired buildings), approx a brazillion square feet, at a paltry price of a brazillion dollars.  1 year after it opened, there was a $7 million retrofit. They never approved electricity in the oroginal plans (yeah I know, details).

That coupled with other scandles resulted in a Royal Canadian Mounted Police investigation. Never went to court as Twinney died just before trial. He was looking for a long stay in the jail he built
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dragonsaver

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Re: pay-offs as a way of life
« Reply #11 on: October 05, 2008, 03:28:13 AM »
bmbmbmbmbm bmbmbmbmbm bmbmbmbmbm

I think this was done before the Canadian PM stole John Howard's speech!! ahahahahah

LE, that was plagiarism, he didn't pay anyone for it.  Stupidity is free in any country  ahahahahah agagagagag agagagagag
Be kind to dragons for thou are crunchy when roasted and taste good with brie.

Lotus Eater

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Re: pay-offs as a way of life
« Reply #12 on: October 05, 2008, 03:45:19 AM »
I tell my students plagiarism IS stealing.  Stealing ideas, stealing creativity for personal gain.  Taking/using without permission is stealing.  ahahahahah

dragonsaver

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Re: pay-offs as a way of life
« Reply #13 on: October 05, 2008, 03:59:30 AM »
I wasn't disputing that it was theft.  I was disputing it was 'corruption'.  It was stupidity to steal it, especially the source  ahahahahah ahahahahah

However, it isn't corruption in the sense of paying money to someone to overlook something or to gain favour. There was no 'pay-off', PLUS, the idiot got caught!! ahahahahah ahahahahah
Be kind to dragons for thou are crunchy when roasted and taste good with brie.

Granny Mae

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Re: pay-offs as a way of life
« Reply #14 on: October 05, 2008, 05:19:18 AM »
I had this conversation with a Chinese businessman some time ago and most recently with a group of students.  The reaction was that my job was very powerful and I could get very rich when people paid me off. 

I don't think this is about the fact that corruption exists. The impression I get, is that the Chinese businessman and the students not only accept this behaviour,but imply that it is a good idea. I would not expect that reaction from say an Aussie businessman or a group of Aussie students.