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Author Topic: Bought and paid for  (Read 15465 times)

Hossuru

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Bought and paid for
« on: August 19, 2008, 04:08:43 AM »
If it weren't for bought judges, the Chinese wouldn't have half the gold's they do; especially in gymnastics.

What a joke.

George

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Re: Bought and paid for
« Reply #1 on: August 19, 2008, 04:27:18 AM »
Un-nice!!!
The higher they fly, the fewer!    http://neilson.aminus3.com/

ericthered

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Re: Bought and paid for
« Reply #2 on: August 19, 2008, 07:20:01 AM »
Accusations made without proper evidence to support them are pointless. If you have any proof of corruption, then post them.
"Anyone who lives within their means suffers from a lack of imagination." Oscar Wilde.

"It's all oojah cum spiffy". Bertie Wooster.
"The stars are God's daisy chain" Madeleine Bassett.

Mr Nobody

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Re: Bought and paid for
« Reply #3 on: August 19, 2008, 07:56:48 AM »
Yeah. All the cheating took place well before the judges got involved.
Just another roadkill on the information superhighway.

ericthered

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Re: Bought and paid for
« Reply #4 on: August 19, 2008, 08:01:13 AM »
Exactly what cheating, documented, proved cheating that is are we talking about?
"Anyone who lives within their means suffers from a lack of imagination." Oscar Wilde.

"It's all oojah cum spiffy". Bertie Wooster.
"The stars are God's daisy chain" Madeleine Bassett.

Lotus Eater

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Re: Bought and paid for
« Reply #5 on: August 19, 2008, 08:09:08 AM »
I would figure Mr N probably means all the myriad forms of doping that can occur to enhance performance.

Pretty hard to corrupt a WHOLE panel of judges - one or two maybe. 

Evidence is a good thing.

ericthered

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Re: Bought and paid for
« Reply #6 on: August 19, 2008, 08:28:25 AM »
Rather silly mudslinging, IMHO. "This or that athelete clearly used doping! That's why he/she won...no, no, obviously all the doctors and all the myriad of tests that the atheletes have to go through were bought and altered! That's why the Chinese atheletes won and not the Western atheletes"....right....that's just pure malicious jingoism, whichever way you look at it.
"Anyone who lives within their means suffers from a lack of imagination." Oscar Wilde.

"It's all oojah cum spiffy". Bertie Wooster.
"The stars are God's daisy chain" Madeleine Bassett.

Acjade

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Re: Bought and paid for
« Reply #7 on: August 19, 2008, 09:10:54 AM »
Accusations without proof taste like sour grapes. And if the girls ARE pre-pubescent isn't this a message to the gymnastic selection team? Gymnasts performing those events should be pre-pubescents. As a female ages the bones are denser, less flexible. Many of the other teams gymnasts take anti-growth hormones to delay the on set of normal maturation. I'm with China on this one. Gymnastics is OK for kids. Not normal for women.

I did gymnastics as a  hobby, as a post pubescent. Result? Two C-Sections because my muscles were too tight to allow freedom of movement in the womb for the foetuses.

Perhaps like the, for me at least, unmemorable sport the Americans keep winning, female gymnastics needs to be wiped off the Olympic Schedule. It will always look good. Lot's of people will always look at little girls performing unbelievable contortions. But it shouldn't be at the Olympics. The essence of the original olympic spirit was championship, not perversion.

Lotus Eater

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Re: Bought and paid for
« Reply #8 on: August 19, 2008, 09:34:01 AM »
I have been talking to some of my Chinese mates and they too agree that the girls are not 16 - definitely younger.  They also tell me that the gymnasts start training VERY early - 3 or 4 years old, and do not, in general, attend school, but spend all day training. From an early age they are also given anti-growth hormones, and the training is pretty severe.  The coaches are not kind, loving people according to my mates.

I've had a couple of national level athletes in my classes.  They NEVER come to class, and if they hand in a paper the English is word perfect - even if the subject is totally unrelated to the topic required! ahahahahah  I fail them - but don't ask questions about those ones afterwards.

And we cannot convince ourselves that human beings will not use every means at their disposal to gain glory and gold (of any variety!) for themselves and their countries.
Quote
Olympic drug cheats still ahead of the cops

Bill Dwyre
August 1, 2008
We are days away from the opening of yet another Olympic spectacle, the Beijing Games, and with arenas ready and athletes poised, there seems to be only one missing element.

A gold medal category for best pharmacist.

It's not that the China Olympics are expected to be any more performance-enhanced than their predecessors. Just that the performance-enhancers are being chased harder now.

Jacques Rogge, the Belgian who is president of the International Olympic Committee, said he expected an increase in drug positives from the 26 at the Athens Games to about 40 in Beijing. His cops, WADA (World Anti-Doping Agency) are on the case.

It happens - and not just in gymnastics to change body structure/chemistry.

We can agree that a certain percentage of athletes in every sport will take this road, based on past experience, so it isn't actual mudslinging.  What we can't do, until the tests are done is to say 'X used drugs".

But to clear the whole sporting system of drugs is an enormous ask. 

The bio-chemists, bio-engineers etc will be working for new and less detectable ways of artificially enhancing performance for many years to come.

BubbaBait

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Re: Bought and paid for
« Reply #9 on: August 19, 2008, 09:47:27 AM »
...female gymnastics needs to be wiped off the Olympic Schedule. It will always look good. Lot's of people will always look at little girls performing unbelievable contortions. But it shouldn't be at the Olympics. The essence of the original olympic spirit was championship, not perversion...

I must call BS on this point. No doubt there are some people who fall into such a class and category. Most, in my experience, the vast majority, do not. We admire the immense skill required,and the beauty of its expression.

Frankly, I don't understand why the age of the athletes matters. They begin training in every country at fragile ages, and do not experience 'normal' childhoods anywhere. I'd let 'em get the medals and go on with life as soon as they can.
« Last Edit: August 19, 2008, 10:16:11 AM by BubbaBait »

Acjade

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Re: Bought and paid for
« Reply #10 on: August 19, 2008, 09:58:34 AM »
Frankly, I don't understand why the age of the athletes matters. They begin training in every country at fragile ages, and do not experience 'normal' childhoods anywhere. I'd let 'em get the medals and go on with life as soon as they can.

At what cost? Sport isn't everything. And how do you suggest they get on with life as soon as possible. Exploitation of children isn't the answer to anything. It just brings in another set of questions.

In Australia, God bless it's soil, if a kid wants to do handturns they ruddy well do them. And get encouraged. If they don't want to do them no one gives a kookaburra. It's a child's right to CHOICE
« Last Edit: August 19, 2008, 10:20:50 AM by Acjade »

Lotus Eater

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Re: Bought and paid for
« Reply #11 on: August 19, 2008, 10:07:46 AM »
The only things that matter about the age:  1) the Olympic Committee has a lower age limit - are there competitors out there who are cheating by falsifying their ages.

2) If we decide age is not relevant to ability, is it fair to take children at younger and younger ages and subject them to intensive training to gain medals?  Not a lot of free will in this process.

3) Life afterwards for athletes is often not that good - no other marketable skills (some with little/no education) and maybe with bodies damaged beyond what is reparable.  I have a friend who trained as a gymnast from about 10/11 years old and continued until she finished uni.  Even now, 10 years later, her tendons and ligaments are so stretched she has continuing problems.  She can still do a mean straight drop down splits though!  ahahahahah

This is being recognised as a problem elsewhere - see "Dying for a medal" 1984, and "Dying to Win" 1994. 

Quote
Hidden behind the limelight often associated with womenís gymnastics there is a villain. This villain has destroyed the lives of many children aspiring to be gymnasts and in recent years has gained an increased amount of notoriety. It can be found deep within the hearts and souls of aspiring Olympic champions. The villain comes in two forms: anorexia nervosa and bulimia nervosa. The issue is not whether or not eating disorders exist in the world of gymnastics, but what causes gymnasts to develop them and what is being done to help those gymnasts that are plagued with eating disorders. After learning the tragic accounts from many gymnasts describing how their coaches emotionally abuse them, it has become evident to me that coaches cause eating disorders including anorexia nervosa and bulimia nervosa in young female gymnasts.
http://www.wright-house.com/ac/papers97/JohnsonE-ac1.html

And this isn't just in China or the eastern bloc countries - serious gymnasts in the US, UK, Oz - wherever go through this as well.


 

Acjade

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Re: Bought and paid for
« Reply #12 on: August 19, 2008, 10:12:49 AM »


And we cannot convince ourselves that human beings will not use every means at their disposal to gain glory and gold (of any variety!) for themselves and their countries.


How many unsung heroes are there in this world? More than gold medal winners I think. Some might and DO use everything at their disposal to 'gain glory and gold' but the history books verify this is not so. Thank God.

Lotus Eater

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Re: Bought and paid for
« Reply #13 on: August 19, 2008, 10:15:56 AM »
Sadly though, as the years go by, some of those history making achievements are 'outed' or confessed to be actually 'enhanced' performances.

An interesting read.
http://www.cbc.ca/sports/indepth/drugs/stories/top10.html

And I think just recently that another medallist confessed to using drugs without being caught. (IRIS)  ahahahahah

And it's not new.

Quote
Thomas J. Hicks, an American born in England on 7 January 1875 won the Olympic marathon in 1904. He crossed the line behind a fellow American, Fred Lorz, whose concept of marathon-running extended to riding half the way in a car. But nor did Hicks compete without outside help. His trainer, Charles Lucas, pulled out a hypodermic and came to his aid as his runner began to struggle.

    I therefore decided to inject him with a milligram of sulphate of strychnine and to make him drink a large glass brimming with brandy. He set off again as best he could [but] he needed another injection four miles from the end to give him a semblance of speed and to get him to the finish. [17]

I like brandy as a performance enhancing drug!!
« Last Edit: August 19, 2008, 10:24:41 AM by Lotus Eater »

BubbaBait

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Re: Bought and paid for
« Reply #14 on: August 19, 2008, 10:25:40 AM »
...At what cost? Sport isn't everything. And how do you suggest they get on with life as soon as possible. Exploitation of children isn't the answer to anything. It just brings in another set of questions.

In Australia, God bless it's soil, if a kid wants to do handturns they ruddy well do them. And get encouraged. If they don't want to do them no one gives a kookaburra. It's a child's right to CHOICE[/size]

The Australian kids who compete in the Olympics have about as much choice in the matter as any other kids in the world. SOMEBODY decides,not the kid, that they are going to devote the extraordinary time and money to prepare. The kid may think they made the decision but, like American high schoolers playing football, they are forced into the role by their elders, coaches, and media claptrap. If they don't start training when they are three or four, they have about zero chance of being 'gold' material. What three or four year old 'chooses' anything, let alone a 'career' as a gymnast?
« Last Edit: August 19, 2008, 01:51:43 PM by BubbaBait »