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[Foscolo]

There was a thread here a few months ago on Chinese Red Wine. The general drift was that with a very few exceptions it isn't going to rock your world. And yet I've just read that due to global warming and a serious intent by the Chinese winewaking industry to up their game, in a few years we could be seeing world class wines of quality and distinction coming out of China.

Well, we'll see. It's a little while ago now, but I decided to "see what you guys can do when you're really trying" and shelled out 200RMB for a bottle of Great Wall's (almost) finest. It wasn't bad at all, but I could have got something comparable from outside China for a little less money, making it incredibly bad value on a Chinese salary.

As a confirmed and shameless wine bore, I'd be interested to hear any international wine tips. Mine is red wine from Navarra, Spain and other northern Spanish regions. They're near the famed Rioja region, but while producers there can be very complacent, knowing that the magic word Rioja will sell their brew regardless of quality, in the surrounding areas they have to try harder. If you go for something that has "Crianza" or "Reserva" on the bottle it will have been aged in wooden barrels and be quite a dry, grown-up serious wine experience, but a good one. Especially if the grape is Tempranillo, the main grape of Rioja.

The same can be true of Chianti. The main or exclusive grape in Chianti is Sangiovese. Look for a Sangiovese Toscana or Sangiovese of elsewhere, and get a better glassful for your money (assuming it's available in your parts). Fairly fruity and easy to drink, but with a bit of a dry acquired taste in there as well.

I'm quite ignorant about Australian, US and NZ wines - any suggestions?

You see, on a forum I can get away with this, because I'm just a fake name and a picture of a puppet. In real life I'd have my mates howling with derision. Shut up about wine you total arse, and get another round of fizzy beers in.

[contemporarydog]

NZ wines?  You're 'avin a laugh, surely.

But yeah, I find that some of the New World ones are just as good as anything from Frogland these days.

I'm afraid that even though I enjoy wine, I'm a total ignoramus about it and types.

[AMonk]

I don't know wines from grape juice (and rarely touch anything except a very plebian Liebfraumilch) but Son has found himself some quite palatable bottles of red and a couple of really nice liquers from South Africa.  I'll have to ask him for recommendations for you.

[contemporarydog]

Hmm looks like NZ does have quite a bit http://www.nzwine.com/intro/

I grew up on a road called Mayola Road.  Our back garden had grape vines which were always pretty pitiful.  One summer was really hot and the grapes were half decent, so my nan made some grape wine from them, bottled it and made labels saying "Chateau Mayola". 

Actually my nan used to do a fine line in homemade wines.  The elderflower ones she made were superb.

[china-matt]

I enjoy wine, but I really can't tell the difference between them when drinking. Back home I never spent more than about $15 on a bottle (usually less) and thought my choices were pretty good. I have to admit that I do like Suntime wine from Xinjiang (but I haven't been able to find it since I moved last July).

If nothing else, Chinese wine works really well when making sangria.

[Canvet]

The home town, or home province red here is Mogao. It is surprisingly good, and rather cheap here. Great Wall is overblown and overpriced. I was at an international conference and seated next to some fellows from Paris, they were rather unkind to the Great Wall high priced bottles but liked the low priced ones in a differential way. They tried the Mogao and were surprised in a good way.
New Zealand has some rather decent Saugvignon Blancs.

Australia, NZ, California and Canada took the Old world grapes and applied new world science, Australia being the lead in this. Wines are good and consistently good because of this and they price them below the french ones.

If you like a Roija look for the chilean brands, better and cheaper usually.

 

[contemporarydog]

I enjoy wine, but I really can't tell the difference between them when drinking. Back home I never spent more than about $15 on a bottle (usually less) and thought my choices were pretty good. I have to admit that I do like Suntime wine from Xinjiang (but I haven't been able to find it since I moved last July).

If nothing else, Chinese wine works really well when making sangria.

Um, $15 sounds quite expensive to me!

That's 7.50 which in the UK is the base for good wine.

Usually I find the biggest difference is between the real cheap stuff and the 7 pound and up stuff.  I reckon if I was given a 100 quid bottle to try I wouldn't appreciate it at all.

[Nolefan]

I have been on a major wine kick over the last 2 months and it's helped that in Beijing, we can get at least 2 or 3 extremely good wine tasting per month (usually free  )
As far as Chinese wines go, there are a couple of quality products out there for a decent price point but competition is fierce. The Better local wines are from:

- Grace Vineyards: entry level at 60 RMB for cab-sauv, merlot and chard. their grand reserve retails for 250+ RMB and is good but nowhere near 250 RMB good. Their wines are fairly "new world" but that's normal considering their winemaker is from australia
- Xi XIA: decent cab retailing for 45RMB. Full bodied and quite enjoyable. The price point here is competitive.
- Chateau Bolongbao: Organic wines made for export by the French. Tasty but extremely pricy at 300+ per bottle.
- Catai: Like Grace, these guys make a mean red and it's quite full bodied. The winemaker is sicilian and he knows what he's doing. It's one of the best values on the Beijing market at 45 RMB per bottle.
- Dragon Seal: compares favorably with the californian wines and they have a whole range of prices/products. Their mid-range at 70RMB is strong but not competitive.

I can't keep track of Great Wall anymore. There are 14 different vineyards all using a variation of that name in English with decent stuff and crappy stuff... goota try them individually.

In Beijing, we are a bit spoiled in wines so I don't drink Chinese brands as much as i used to. For easy drinking, I would go for:

Signos Shiraz (argentina): 50RMB at most retail outlets... just entered the market this year and it's pretty darn solid. Needs 1/2 hour at least to breathe properly.
Waltzing Wine (OZ): around 48RMB for different types. Cab/Merlot blend, Shiraz, Cab, Chard. Really good value if you can find it. The store next to my office sells out on a regular basis.
Louis Edward Philipe (chili): about 48 RMB right now... amazing deal, especially for their carmenere. beats the hell out of any other wine at the same price point. One of the few new world wines I've had with distinct old world characteristics.


So, that's for the brands. In terms of grapes, I must say I'm enjoying rediscovering new ones right now. Granache from spain is amazing (Sangre de Toro at 90+ RMB), I'll take that over a Rioja any day.
Also, Carmenere is going up my list. It's a really old and noble grape that was almost extinct but it's making a comeback thanks to Chili. 300 or 400 years ago, Carmenere is where it was at.. it was DA BOMB.. but too difficult to deal with in European climate. It thrived in south America where initially, people confused it with Merlot.

If you're in Beijing and like wine, give me a buzz, i'll hook u up. Over the next weeks, I will be doing a videoblog with exclusively Chinese reds between the 20 - 100 RMB price range. It'd be good to have a few persons giving an opinion.

[George]

Interesting! Here in China, my price limit is around the 30Y mark. Huadong and ChangYu are the best I've found st that level. I can't see the sense of paying higher prices on the off-chance that it may be slightly better. I don't look at imported stuff here, because I don't know how they have travelled and been stored.

[contemporarydog]

As I said on the other thread, my friend used to get a '2 bottles for 30 RMB' deal from Suntime, and the wine was, astoundingly, half decent.  It was more like a real western wine than many of the 'pricier' great wall etc ones.

[Nolefan]

2 bottles of Suntime red for 39RMB here.  That stuff is actually pretty darn good. 

can't seem to find it in my neck of the woods and not for lack of trying. Might have to request a shipment from somewhere in hebei.

[contemporarydog]

2 bottles of Suntime red for 39RMB here.  That stuff is actually pretty darn good. 

Indeed.  It's weird how, for the price, it manages to give a pretty good impression of a passable western wine, isn't it?

[Nolefan]

Its the nicest red I've had while in China. 

you've been missing out dear... come to Beijing and I'll introduce you to some bottles that will knock your socks off... 

[VoiceWithin]

I live right on the doorstep of the Cape winelands in South Africa ... we are spoiled for choice but my absolute favorite is a Pinotage ... I make sure to introduce every overseas visitor to it whilst in SA and it is always a hit.

[ericthered]

I must admit that I prefer French white wine.