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Author Topic: A Hard Rain's Gonna Fall... (THE VISA NIGHTMARE!)  (Read 111606 times)

cheekygal

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Re: A Hard Rain's Gonna Fall... (THE VISA NIGHTMARE!)
« Reply #165 on: June 16, 2008, 09:45:42 AM »
Residence permits aren't a problem in fact. Especially if you already have one. If you don't, they will send you to HK or back home with an invitation letter. Don't know about the rest. May be IM is more tough cause it is right on the border with Russia. My mom who lives 2 hours drive from the border with Manchuria used to get 1 year L visa. Then it turned to 1 month. Then to 5 days. Currently they are only letting people in if they are on this special tourist list. Or shoppers list. They said after the Games the things will resume to normal.

DWA

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Re: A Hard Rain's Gonna Fall... (THE VISA NIGHTMARE!)
« Reply #166 on: June 16, 2008, 01:28:15 PM »
Thought this might be of interest......

2008 Beijing Olympic Games comes, Chinese government tighten the visa policy?

Posted By: GDCEIA <support@abroadchina.org>
Date: Sunday, 15 June 2008, at 7:06 a.m.

First, you should know all those visa restrictions are for the Olympic Games. From April till October, to due to the 2008 Beijing Olympic Games, The Entry and Exit Administration Bureau of the Ministry of Public Security tighten the visa policy. According to that, now the paperwork you have to prepare are more complicated than before, for example if you don't reside or work in Hong Kong permanently, applicant may can not get Z visa(work) in Hong Kong as normal during Olympic Games. You are required to apply Chinese visa from the China Embassy in your resident country. More details, Please check Government site (http://www.fmcoprc.gov.hk/eng/zgqz/bgfwxx/default.htm)

Second, those work visa holders should go through the procedure for obtaining residence permit in the local public security bureau of China within 30 days from the date of your entry. So we suggest you should plan your entry scheduling carefully.

Besides, you must know more details of the background about your employer, before you go to China.

Important advice: Do not believe advertisement easily!

In order to recruit foreign teachers to teach in their schools, the schools must pass strict government requirements as to employ foreign teachers. They should be granted by the government the rights. Some employers in China, whom have no license for hiring foreign teacher, still hope you will work for them. They can not apply for a working permit for you, so you will have trouble if your traveling visa expires. Usually, your employer will tell you to leave China for a few days, or go to neighboring area such as Hong Kong, you need to extends your traveling visa, then back to China to continue working for them. In China, it is illegal if a foreigner has a job without a working visa and work permitting.

To work legally, you need to get a work visa (z-visa). For a foreign teacher, it is virtually important to be aware of which school is illegal and which is legal in order to make a nice living and teaching in China.

* The following eligible schools still need English teachers, where you can guarantee the safety of legitimate work and life.    {{{I removed the ad listings}}}


DWA

  • Limboid
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Re: A Hard Rain's Gonna Fall... (THE VISA NIGHTMARE!)
« Reply #167 on: June 16, 2008, 02:08:51 PM »
Also,  One issue I've not seen talked about {{If it was, I musta been far too high to have understood what I actually thought I read!!}} is:   When the current School cancels my Expert Certificate, how much time do I have to get the new Permit?  I am far from expert in any of this issue.....it's as clear as a bucket of S**T !!  From what I understand, I can't get a Residency permit without a Z Visa, and can't get a Z Visa without having a residency permit!!!!

For those of you out there with lots of experience.......THANK YOU VERY MUCH !  jjjjjjjjjj

cheekygal

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Re: A Hard Rain's Gonna Fall... (THE VISA NIGHTMARE!)
« Reply #168 on: June 16, 2008, 02:41:57 PM »
I think that if you get a new job before your contract with the school expires, you can send a copy of your current visa/residency to the new school and from the previous school you need a release letter. That should settle it. Cause the current school when applying for your residency cancellation has to give you something like 2 weeks to 1 month (your annual vacation) to sort out your affairs.
Also, Missi is a good source as she's been working on her move recently.

DWA

  • Limboid
  • Posts: 77
Re: A Hard Rain's Gonna Fall... (THE VISA NIGHTMARE!)
« Reply #169 on: June 16, 2008, 09:12:46 PM »
THANKS  afafafafaf Cheekygal....what I'm finding is that the legal/permit issues in moving vs initial/first job are different. AND....where you are located.  I know that Inner Mongolia is very different.  The school to which I applied apparently has a "limp" FAO director because he simply told me on the phone there was nothing he could do, his hands were tied. When I mentioned "calling in some favors" he sounded offended, like I  asked him to cheat !

Hello Missi.......pls PM me about moving to another school issues. Several things are on my mind.........[Oh!, sorry, did I say 'mind'???, musta been dreamin' llllllllll]

I heard or read somewhere that I can have the current school void my Expert Certificate and I can actually keep the red book.  Normally, they simply take it and I have nothing.
Is this true?

T H A N K S  ~~~~!
***two heads are better than one, even if one is a cabbage head ~~~

Raoul F. Duke

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Re: A Hard Rain's Gonna Fall... (THE VISA NIGHTMARE!)
« Reply #170 on: June 16, 2008, 11:24:34 PM »
For most people, residence permits won't be a problem...if you work for a public school or university. It's those that are working for private training centers that have the most to worry over. Some places that have been easily able to get work/residence permits in the past may find themselves suddenly unable to get them...and they may not even be aware of this themselves until the first time someone tries to get one under the new rules.

It won't be too surprising if things loosen up on F visas...a number of key trading partner nations have complained to the Chinese government. However, they will likely continue to require documentation from a registered foreign company. This will help the business types, but may not have much impact on English teachers and other employees of Chinese companies.

I dunno...I've given up trying to call these things.

Note that the only people who need a Z Visa are those who are still outside China. ANY visa, regardless of type simply constitutes the right to enter China, remain within its borders, and exit within the valid period of the visa. NO visa conveys the right to work for a Chinese company, or establish residence anywhere other than a hotel or officially-designated company housing. Under the letter of Chinese law, the only documents that can do that are the Work Permit (aka "Foreign Expert Certificate") and the Residence Permit, respectively.

The main advantage of the Z Visa is its easy convertability to Work/Residence Permits. Those with other visas still may be able to get the Permits- IF they have the necessary documents from a company legally authorized to hire foreigners and apply for the right documents. It may require more stages and a trip outside of China and back, but it can be done.

The biggest rub for many of us may be the "legally authorized to hire foreigners" bit referred to above. A lot of private schools are themselves not really legal to hire foreign employees, so they buy them from a local university or other organization that DOES have the rights to issue them. In the past, the authorities looked the other way at this practice...but they aren't looking away now.

It's not easy for us to find out if our Permits fall into this category or not. The info is generally in Chinese. Your Permits may bear the name of another company, or show you in a different occupation than teaching. Worst of all, the real info on your permits may exist only on the contracts and other documents actually submitted to the PSB Exit-Entry Bureau...and you will not even know these other contracts exist. This is what just happened in my case...

It's really hard to give reliable advice in these conditions. The best you can do is learn the facts, make it clear to prospective employers that you're only interested in completely-legal papers, and see what plays out in your individual case.
"Vicodin and dumplings...it's a great combination!" (Anthony Bourdain, in Harbin)

"Here in China we aren't just teaching...
we're building the corrupt, incompetent, baijiu-swilling buttheads of tomorrow!" (Raoul F. Duke)

becster79

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Re: A Hard Rain's Gonna Fall... (THE VISA NIGHTMARE!)
« Reply #171 on: June 17, 2008, 11:57:09 AM »
In relation to all this, I wanna ask a stupid question (not sure if anyone know the answer yet though)- I normally come to China through Hong Kong, as it's the cheapest option from Australia. Usually fly in, catch the bus over to Guangzhou, then train or cheapie flight from there to wherever I'm getting to.

Anyone know if this (ie. land crossing) could be out of the q now?
10 easy steps to stop procrastination.

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Raoul F. Duke

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Re: A Hard Rain's Gonna Fall... (THE VISA NIGHTMARE!)
« Reply #172 on: June 17, 2008, 11:59:02 PM »
Shouldn't be a problem, as long as your visa is in order...
Anyone down there know current status?
"Vicodin and dumplings...it's a great combination!" (Anthony Bourdain, in Harbin)

"Here in China we aren't just teaching...
we're building the corrupt, incompetent, baijiu-swilling buttheads of tomorrow!" (Raoul F. Duke)

Ruth

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Re: A Hard Rain's Gonna Fall... (THE VISA NIGHTMARE!)
« Reply #173 on: June 18, 2008, 12:33:09 AM »
Crossed that way going out in January and back in in February.  Again out and in during May holidays.  Not a bit of trouble.  But that was a month ago.  Who knows the closer we get to the Big Event?  As Raoul said, you should be fine if visa is in order.
If you want to walk on water, you have to get out of the boat.

DaDan

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Re: A Hard Rain's Gonna Fall... (THE VISA NIGHTMARE!)
« Reply #174 on: June 18, 2008, 11:42:13 AM »
I did Luohu June 3rd, same as always.

Another option is to get the fast train direct from HongKong to Guangzhou, half the time & simplier border crossing.
I don't know where to get the train in HK but shouldn't be hard to find.
or get through Luohu normal way & get the fast train there. CRT I believe, an hour at around 90 yuan.
me pappy sayd... 
Once ya get past the smell... ...:P ... `You got it licked...

Noodles

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Re: A Hard Rain's Gonna Fall... (THE VISA NIGHTMARE!)
« Reply #175 on: June 18, 2008, 03:16:08 PM »
I came in on the ferry from hong kong yesterday and the security had definitely been stepped up. There was at least 8 guys there checking peoples luggage, when normally it is just the one nose-picker.
One guy was being quizzed about a book he was carrying, although i didn't see what it was.
The future's so bright i gotta wear shades

DWA

  • Limboid
  • Posts: 77
Re: A Hard Rain's Gonna Fall... (THE VISA NIGHTMARE!)
« Reply #176 on: June 18, 2008, 06:13:25 PM »
This might be the wrong place to ask this, but it does somewhat have something to do with visas.....ah shit!!! I know it's late, but I'm gonna anyway:

My Residency Permit expires August 24.  My Contract Expires Sept 10.   If.... the University wants me to stay and "complete" the contract to Sept 10, don't they have to renew the Z Visa to correspond to the contract dates ?   If they don't renew the Z Visa, are they breaking the contract?   

My current uni is being very difficult:  have a signed 12 month contract, and they sent me an email 3 weeks ago saying I'm too old and to seek other employment.  Does that break the contract too? 

Much murky water here....lot of reading between the lines and the FAO is about as hepful as tits on a boar hog!!!

Raoul.......Please, PM me...I have an urgent question on contract language.....thanks

Lotus Eater

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Re: A Hard Rain's Gonna Fall... (THE VISA NIGHTMARE!)
« Reply #177 on: June 18, 2008, 10:33:11 PM »
The university should extend your residency permit to the contract completion time - unless they figure that the courses are finished and are prepared to pay you to the end of the contract without you being there. That is holiday time though isn't it?  So they don't need you to be teaching.

If you have already signed another contract with them, then they would be in breach of that contract by telling you to seek other employment.  However, this one is probably not one you will win if they really don't want you.  They will find an area you have breached - not attending an English corner, not abiding by the moral code of china - anything etc  to prove you broke the contract first.

old34

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Re: A Hard Rain's Gonna Fall... (THE VISA NIGHTMARE!)
« Reply #178 on: June 21, 2008, 10:25:25 AM »
It seems that hard rain is about to fall-on the schools. I got some sprinkles today - three deans and one DOS all sent me messages asking if I could recommend anyone to them for next semester for their respective schools. It's like,

"Well classes just ended yesterday, so now what do I need to do next. Oh! prepare next semester's schedule."
[Call FAO]: Hello, Miss/Mr. FAO, what foreign teachers have you lined up for next semester? What! None! Few applicants? New visa issues? Well, OK. Keep trying.
[Send SMS to old34]

I think the visa issues are finally starting to take their toll on the Chinese side.
Knowledge is knowing that a tomato is a fruit; wisdom is knowing not to put it in a fruit salad. - B. O'Driscoll.
TIC is knowing that, in China, your fruit salad WILL come with cherry tomatoes AND all slathered in mayo. - old34.

Lone Traveller

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Re: A Hard Rain's Gonna Fall... (THE VISA NIGHTMARE!)
« Reply #179 on: June 22, 2008, 02:44:04 AM »
Well it seems my drama is continuing... (different thread).

The school that I'm supposed to be working with in September has been asked to provide a copy of my medical certificate before they will grant permission to the school for my visa. (This certificate doesn't exist, as yet).

2years ago all I did was sent the letter of inviation from the school along with all appropriate docs to my embassy here in Canberra and the Zvisa was issued without any problems. Now the chinese side in Beijing are saying that a medical is required (here in Australia) and a copy is to be sent to them, they will translate it and then permission is granted to the school to send me the documents i need. Wasn't required before, but ok, I'll go with it. The embassy here told me "that's rubbish - no such doc is required". Anyway, still going with it. Asked the Chinese side what is required to be checked so I can go get it done... "um, not sure. We'll let you know".  asasasasas  llllllllll That was 3 days ago.

School is getting fed up and wanted to try getting a business visa instead at which I reared up and said I would absolutely not accept that.   llllllllll

Still waiting to hear from them. Fingers, toes and everything else is crossed hoping all goes well.
Courage is not the absense of fear, but rather the judgement that something else is more important than fear.