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Author Topic: Dictionaries.  (Read 6327 times)

mlaeux

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Re: Dictionaries.
« Reply #15 on: March 21, 2009, 01:17:58 PM »
Do they all know the international phonic alphabet? I didn't learn that until I took a linguistics course at the university level. When I grew up, all the dictionaries included the American phonetic alphabet, which is sadly archaic now.  kkkkkkkkkk

iannou

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Re: Dictionaries.
« Reply #16 on: March 21, 2009, 04:31:36 PM »
Do they all know the international phonic alphabet? I didn't learn that until I took a linguistics course at the university level. When I grew up, all the dictionaries included the American phonetic alphabet, which is sadly archaic now.  kkkkkkkkkk

Hi

I've been tutoring adult Chinese, Korean and Arabic immigrants for several months now [so I'm obviously an expert  uuuuuuuuuu ], and it seems like the International Phonetic Alphabet (IPA) is being taught to a lot of English learners. I give vocabulary sheets with English and IPA spelling, and they can nail the pronunciation very quickly in most cases. One Korean, seeing one of these sheets for the first time, said "I can read this (the IPA transcript), but I can't read this (the English)".


I keep a good learners' dictionary with IPA at my side, and I hand it to anyone who whips out the electronic dictionary/translator. I never have more than 3 students at a time, so one dictionary can cover everyone. I also give everyone the link to Cambridge Online Dictionaries  http://dictionary.cambridge.org/ to use at home. They have British and American dictionaries with IPA transcriptions on the site.

Teaching someone IPA if they don't already know it is a different topic, but if they've already been exposed to it, it's a great tool.

Cheers
Ian


old34

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Re: Dictionaries.
« Reply #17 on: March 21, 2009, 04:59:52 PM »
In China, the IPA is taught in primary school. They use the IPA coupled with pinyin to try to teach standard Putonghua. Later, the IPA retains its usefulness to them when they begin studying English. Look at any student's notes and you'll see lots of IPA notation for new words.
Knowledge is knowing that a tomato is a fruit; wisdom is knowing not to put it in a fruit salad. - B. O'Driscoll.
TIC is knowing that, in China, your fruit salad WILL come with cherry tomatoes AND all slathered in mayo. - old34.

George

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Re: Dictionaries.
« Reply #18 on: March 21, 2009, 09:07:31 PM »
One big dictionary problem is choosing which definition is the appropriate one. I'm sure you have all heard."she is a vivid girl". It's almost universal in China. Like some English words, Chinese characters have different meanings. Student practice is usually to glom onto the first definition that catches their eye. Leads to some inneresting choices!! ahahahahah
The higher they fly, the fewer!    http://neilson.aminus3.com/

old34

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Re: Dictionaries.
« Reply #19 on: March 21, 2009, 09:24:43 PM »
Student practice is usually to glom onto the first definition that catches their eye. Leads to some inneresting choices!! ahahahahah

So right!

I show my college kids the SHIFT+F7 Thesaurus function in MS Word. 99% of them never knew it existed. Watch the smiles on their faces as the scales fall off their eyes.
Knowledge is knowing that a tomato is a fruit; wisdom is knowing not to put it in a fruit salad. - B. O'Driscoll.
TIC is knowing that, in China, your fruit salad WILL come with cherry tomatoes AND all slathered in mayo. - old34.

dragonsaver

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Re: Dictionaries.
« Reply #20 on: March 22, 2009, 12:01:52 AM »
One big dictionary problem is choosing which definition is the appropriate one. I'm sure you have all heard."she is a vivid girl". It's almost universal in China. Like some English words, Chinese characters have different meanings. Student practice is usually to glom onto the first definition that catches their eye. Leads to some inneresting choices!! ahahahahah

That is exactly what I would like to teach the students.  I need a bunch of sentences using the same word but with different meanings.  Have the students look up the meaning of the word in the dictionary for the sentence given.  Eg The soldier carried a club as well as a rifle.  He decided to go to the country club on Sunday.

If you could give me some more ideas and suggestions I could set up a 2 hour course for the freshmen.  Also, other things I should teach about using a paper dictionary as well.

I never learned phonetics in school, so it is all greek to me.  ahahahahah ahahahahah  I really don't understand the symbols or how to use them.
Be kind to dragons for thou are crunchy when roasted and taste good with brie.

Lotus Eater

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Re: Dictionaries.
« Reply #21 on: March 22, 2009, 12:28:12 AM »
One big dictionary problem is choosing which definition is the appropriate one. I'm sure you have all heard."she is a vivid girl". It's almost universal in China. Like some English words, Chinese characters have different meanings. Student practice is usually to glom onto the first definition that catches their eye. Leads to some inneresting choices!! ahahahahah

That is exactly what I would like to teach the students.  I need a bunch of sentences using the same word but with different meanings.  Have the students look up the meaning of the word in the dictionary for the sentence given.  Eg The soldier carried a club as well as a rifle.  He decided to go to the country club on Sunday.

If you could give me some more ideas and suggestions I could set up a 2 hour course for the freshmen.  Also, other things I should teach about using a paper dictionary as well.

I never learned phonetics in school, so it is all greek to me.  ahahahahah ahahahahah  I really don't understand the symbols or how to use them.

Homonyms are common in Chinese, so your students will understand the concept easily.

Try these:
saw, lick, stalk, right, bark, shift, bill, ...

http://users.tinyonline.co.uk/gswithenbank/homonyms.htm

With the IPA stuff, when students ask me to pronounce a word using those weird squiggles, I ask them for an example, because native speakers don't usually need to learn them.  My e-dictionary has them and I can click on a particular squiggle and a list of words with that pronunciation pops up, and a little mouth showing lip position and giving pronunciation also pops up.   ahahahahah

mlaeux

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Re: Dictionaries.
« Reply #22 on: March 22, 2009, 01:46:18 AM »
Here are some links to lesson plans involving the dictionary. They are geared towards elementary grades. I think you could modify them to fit your needs.


http://www.atozteacherstuff.com/pages/4266.shtml

http://www.onestopenglish.com/section.asp?sectionType=listsummary&catid=59937

Dictionary usage survey
http://esl.about.com/od/grammarlessons/a/dictionary.htm

This one has links to additional sites, if you scroll down.
http://www.education-world.com/a_lesson/lesson/lesson206.shtml

These word maps are real popular here in the states. 
http://www.readwritethink.org/lessons/lesson_view.asp?id=307

This is an excerpt from a lesson plan. You have to join. I don't know if a fee is involved or not.
http://www.instructorweb.com/lesson/namemegame.asp#LESSON_PRINTABLES_

dragonsaver

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Re: Dictionaries.
« Reply #23 on: March 22, 2009, 02:55:28 AM »
Thanks  akakakakak akakakakak akakakakak
Be kind to dragons for thou are crunchy when roasted and taste good with brie.

Riz

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Re: Dictionaries.
« Reply #24 on: March 22, 2009, 05:29:05 AM »
Hey The Local Dialect
If only I could get the model No. and Make of that dictionary that your student uses, I would buy it today! I carry a brick to my classes all the time( thick paper dictionary). Does it answer in meanings only or it tells you how to use the words in a context?
I'd appreciate your help!
Thanks.
"I like pigs. Dogs look up to us. Cats look down on us. Pigs treat us as equals."
Short and funny quotes, Winston Churchill.

The Local Dialect

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Re: Dictionaries.
« Reply #25 on: March 22, 2009, 06:15:11 AM »
Hey The Local Dialect
If only I could get the model No. and Make of that dictionary that your student uses, I would buy it today! I carry a brick to my classes all the time( thick paper dictionary). Does it answer in meanings only or it tells you how to use the words in a context?
I'd appreciate your help!
Thanks.

I'll find out from my student this week. I believe it gives examples, as well as synonyms. Its very useful for high level students, they rely more on the English-English functions because they know the English-Chinese is sometimes unreliable.

Another concept that dictionaries don't convey very well is tone and connotation. Why do certain words have a bad connotation and others a good one, and why do certain words, despite their meaning, not fit in certain instances? My 11th graders this week had "aftermath" as one of their vocabulary words, which translates fairly accurately as "结果" or “后果,”meaning "result" or "consequence." The problem is, when asked to make sentences the students would say something like "The aftermath of not studying is bad grades," which is just a tad too dramatic for normal English! I had to explain that the word aftermath is usually used for big events, natural disasters and the like. But then again, what if someone is purposely using it in an ironic way, exaggerating an event? This is the essential failure of overeliance on dictionaries, this overly literal translation, and also why you have students saying things that, while aren't completely incorrect, are not native either.

Riz

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Re: Dictionaries.
« Reply #26 on: March 24, 2009, 05:48:57 AM »
Point taken! I completely understand what you mean and I agree with that. I believe any language, when spoken, changes the meanings as the dictionaries can't justify.
"I like pigs. Dogs look up to us. Cats look down on us. Pigs treat us as equals."
Short and funny quotes, Winston Churchill.

Mr Nobody

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Re: Dictionaries.
« Reply #27 on: April 08, 2009, 04:32:13 AM »
You could just get the Oxford Full Dictionary (22 vols downloadable from Demonoid, arrh Jim me lad, about 2gig) and attempt to make it standard. I am trying to by giving copies to all the class monitors. However, they aren't exactly leaping forth out of the woodwork for copies. Dunno why.

The IPA has been taught for decades in many countries but only if you formally learn a foreign language, that is foreign for the country you are in. Those of use who can only speak one, didn't learn it. I too learned some kind of phonetic system that only works for the HK style Cantonese transliterations. Limited usefulness.

Yeah, dictionary use is interesting. However, I would rather try something different than just the old I saw her, I used a saw to cut wood.

I would rather use something where the SAME word is used in different ways, so they can have a look at the depth of the words. That is, for more advanced learners. Like vivid mentioned before. Kid is another that is used a lot.

One that turned up yesterday for me in a newspaper reading class (who comes up with these crazy subjects? I just use it to teach idioms and rewording things for explanations) was 'Funky'. Now, what do you think they thought it meant? Fashionable. Um... no.

Wow that music is funky. this smells pretty funky. it sure feels funky. funky new toys. What would be the adjective for 'he was in a deep funk'? Funky!

Something like that.
Just another roadkill on the information superhighway.