• Home
  • Search
    •  
  • Login
    • Username: Password:

      Did you miss your activation email?

Author Topic: We Got 'GONGED!  (Read 39086 times)

Acjade

  • Barfly
  • *
  • Posts: 1113
Re: We Got 'GONGED!
« Reply #15 on: July 03, 2007, 01:21:38 AM »
All of us attending that unforgettable union of Salonites got done.

It's taken me a long time to process the whole affair.

It will take a lot longer to write. And another visit to Suzhou. Once it's been exocised of course.

abusalam

  • Barfly
  • *
  • Posts: 86
Re: We Got 'GONGED!
« Reply #16 on: July 19, 2007, 02:48:03 PM »


If there's good to come out of this, it's that I can give some warnings to fellow laowai that religious groups and people do exist, do take advantage of the unsuspecting, and can get you into trouble.  REAL trouble.

So here's a couple of tips about religious beliefs:

1.  Religious groups NOT explicitly approved by the Chinese Gov't are highly illegal in China.  Promoting them is legally considered sedition, and helping them is considered treason, i.e. people get EXECUTED for conducting relogious activities ?(and guess what - not the FTs but the poor bloody Chinese who fall into the trap of believing them)!).  The authourities consider them to be trying to otherthrow the government, and are afraid of them- and nobody is as vicious as somebody who is afraid.

2.  These people are True Believers.  They are, in their minds, saving the world.  And, like any embattled group who are certain that they are right, they are willing to break a few eggs to make their omelette. 
True Believers think like this.  Stay out of their way!


My changes. But we are here under explicit contracts that state we are NOT to proselytise EVEN IF OUR STUDENTS ASK!!! Our answer should be - "my beliefs are none of your concern - let's return to any English questions you have".  Anything else is breaking our contract and making of us liars.

Surely if we believe in teaching integrity this is the first line - NOT breaking contracts!!



Raoul's story reminds me of similar situatiuons where I had tried to help out someone and got into real trouble because of that. Yes, indeed, FG is illegal in China, and it is something like neo-Buddhist/Daoist sect. I will not comment on them any further but will provide some input on religion in China and the West in general.

In the West, (Christian) religion historically was somehting set up from above - the Pope, the Emperor, the kings, etc. Among other things, it has the backing of those in real power, and religion played a role in maintaining traditional power structures.

In traditional China,it was quite the opposite: Confucianism as the "ideology" of the ruling class is a social philosophy with a strong emphasis on "inequality" - if all people were equal (or treated as equals, chaos would arise). Daoism and Buddhism are the two other "religions" left, and while Buddhism is an import from ancient India, Daoism and Budhhism have much in commonn regarding their doctrine (emptiness, desires, non-action (wuwei), etc.). Like Confucianism, they were pure philosophies initially and were only to become "religions" later when becoming popular among the "masses". Since then, Daoism and Buddhism have always played an important role in pesant risings against the system because of too heavy taxes and other problems. These social-revolutionary movements were often Buddhist/Daoist-inspired and eventually were able to overthrow a dynasty that had come to its end.

"Religion" in China thus was looked at as something that came from the heart of society - the "common people", and any government in power watches them with suspicion. This historical pattern is continuing today - any religious movement is "suspicious", and FG is no expception - among any other religious movement whether it be Christianity, Islam, or whatever.

BTW: For those among you interested in Traditional Chinese Medicine (TCM), in Qigong, Taijuquan, etc. - their "ideological superstructure" ( a terrible expression I am using here in lack of any better at hand right now) is mainly Daoist in nature. Ever heard about the "Huangdi Neijing" (The Yellow Emperor's Classic of Internal Medicine) is with over 2000 years the first and oldest written document on Acupuncture and Moxibustion. It consists of three volumes - the Suwen, the Lingshu and the Nanjing, each of them containi8ng 81 chapters ("81" has a special symbolic meaning, hence this number of chapters in each volume). I have published a complete translation of those texts directly from the original text (Classical Chinese, Guwen) with many annotations and hints on text-critical matters - a work with over 1000 pages in print. Some of the "social-revolutionary" elements from a Daoist perspective can be found in larger portions of those texts even when they are really technical at times with remarks on meridians, acupunture points, the needling techniques for stimulating the Qi, etc. That is because they essentially relate to a Daoist perspective of world image and man.
In a way, they are a bit like FG - a bit obscure (difficult to comprehend; it took me over 10 years to complete my translation and critical editing of those texts before having them published!) but in a way also really "Chinese".

Let me stop here and wish a good day to all of you!
« Last Edit: July 22, 2007, 10:17:09 AM by Raoul Duke »

The Humanaught

  • Barfly
  • *
  • Posts: 44
    • The Humanaught
Re: We Got 'GONGED!
« Reply #17 on: September 23, 2007, 03:47:38 PM »
I finally get off (wait, technically on) my ass and sign up here and jump into this thread first... wow, man...

Couldn't agree more with Raoul's opinion that the FLG are just right knobs for knowingly putting innocent people at risk like that - especially people that open their homes to a stranger in a strange land. bah.

I've waxed and wanned in how I felt about the "persecution" of this group in China, but I think it was sometime after reading my umpteenth Epoch Times article that I just banged my head on the desk twice and said to hell with the crazy bastards. I hate people who propagandize news for their own means.

Anyway, good to finally be pulling up a stool at the saloon. Thanks for having me guys.
'God it's great to be alive. Takes the skin right off my hide, to think I'll have to give it all up someday.
Lost Laowai | The Humanaught blog

jwbhomer

  • Ain't Said Much Yet
  • Posts: 50
Re: We Got 'GONGED!
« Reply #18 on: October 30, 2007, 01:10:20 AM »
Any Catholics reading this thread should be aware that the FLG is not the only religious group (I was going to say "sect") being persecuted. The PRC government does not discriminate. It persecutes the Buddhists in T, the Muslims in Xinjiang, the FLG and the "born-agains" everywhere, as well as Catholic believers who do not adhere to the Chinese Patriotic Catholic Association.

The CPCA is the schismatic "Catholic church" set up by the Communists not long after they seized power, in order to control the activities of Chinese Catholics, and -- while they're at it -- seize the lands and buildings owned by the Church, which they are now busily flogging off to real estate developers. Some of the Catholic bishops and priests joined the CPCA, but others went underground. The Vatican recognizes the underground Catholic Church, but not the CPCA.

According to recently published reports, all 47 of the bishops in union with Rome are in prison, in "hospitals" under armed guard, under house arrest, or in hiding.

Mr Nobody

  • Barfly
  • *
  • Posts: 1532
Re: We Got 'GONGED!
« Reply #19 on: October 30, 2007, 06:16:44 AM »
 offtopic

The subject isn't persecution, but how a fake religion exploited US personally.

Just another roadkill on the information superhighway.

Raoul F. Duke

  • Lovable Rogue
  • Despot in Absentia
  • *****
  • Posts: 9572
  • "Be specific if you order the mushrooms!"
Re: We Got 'GONGED!
« Reply #20 on: October 30, 2007, 03:46:22 PM »
Or, at least, a group claiming religious ties. But yeah.
"Vicodin and dumplings...it's a great combination!" (Anthony Bourdain, in Harbin)

"Here in China we aren't just teaching...
we're building the corrupt, incompetent, baijiu-swilling buttheads of tomorrow!" (Raoul F. Duke)

abusalam

  • Barfly
  • *
  • Posts: 86
Re: We Got 'GONGED!
« Reply #21 on: November 01, 2007, 10:04:44 AM »
offtopic

The subject isn't persecution, but how a fake religion exploited US personally.


In my private life, I am an Anglican working priest - it means that I have a normal secular job to earn my living and do any church-related work in my free time at no charge. And in that position, I realise that there are many "fake" religious organisations at work with a "totalitarian" approach in mind.

In another posting in this thread, I have said something on the History of Religion in China in comparison to the West. Here, let me add another point:

When Christian missionaries came to China in the latter half of the 19th century, China had acquired what the present rulers would call a "half-colonial status" (Opium War, etc.). The Christian churches set up by then also had a role to play in helping foreign powers to maintain their control over the country. They have done the same in other parts of the world at that time. In China at that time, the expression of "rice Christians" was formed referring to a number of Chinese people who only became Christians to be eligible for donations (food, etc.) from foreign charity organisations. You might have done the same in a situation facing starvation. Of course, it is humiliating and not the right way to spread the gospel....

In these days, we must realise that religion is a private business of the individual and that no group - Christian, Muslim or whatever - has the right to make the claim to "save" the rest of the world. That kind of "salvation" indeed could turn out be a catastrophy if they were succesful in the end.

Having said this, I now return to my private life. Perhaps, in my next life (as certain nonb-Christian religions may assume) I will be a crocodile giving a big bite to all those self-appointed savers of the world.....ggggggggrrrrrrr.lol. bibibibibi   

cheekygal

  • Limboid
  • Posts: 3511
Re: We Got 'GONGED!
« Reply #22 on: November 01, 2007, 01:52:42 PM »
so, youtube is unbanned. and so.. i tried to type in F***** G*** and connection was lost. i thought it is a glitch. typed youtube.com and it worked. i typed the former again and... connection with site disappeared again  ahahahahah ahahahahah ahahahahah

jwbhomer

  • Ain't Said Much Yet
  • Posts: 50
Re: We Got 'GONGED!
« Reply #23 on: November 02, 2007, 01:57:18 AM »
offtopic

The subject isn't persecution, but how a fake religion exploited US personally.



Oh. So sorry. I guess that leaves those of us who weren't there with nothing to say.

Acjade

  • Barfly
  • *
  • Posts: 1113
Re: We Got 'GONGED!
« Reply #24 on: November 02, 2007, 04:07:24 AM »

Oh. So sorry. I guess that leaves those of us who weren't there with nothing to say.

And those of us who were, were pretty ruddy speechless, too. aoaoaoaoao aoaoaoaoao bqbqbqbqbq bqbqbqbqbq aoaoaoaoao

Lotus Eater

  • Limboid
  • Posts: 7691
  • buk-buk..b'kaaaawww!
Re: We Got 'GONGED!
« Reply #25 on: November 02, 2007, 05:29:41 AM »
I was lucky enough to be in Xi'an and far away from the action. No-one would have really cared about the idiot and his dumb activities if he hadn't used one of our members as a facade and a couple of months after he met the mob, semi-implicated him and another member in his activities.  This was potentially dangerous for both of our members, and by (frequently visited website) extension, the entire forum.

If he had moved out of our mates place within a week or so and gone about his business we wouldn't have cared.

A couple of months later when the excreta connected with the oscillation device was when real problems occurred.

Our mates were used. The rest of the forum was safe - not sure if the PSB or investigators actually went into it to look or not.  Most of us didn't know what was happening until after it had happened, and so had no way of providing assistance or anything else.

But ... the potential for problems for many was there.

Dumb activities have flow on effects.


Con ate dog

  • Benevolent Despot Wearing a Stupid Paper Hat That Says "Trainee"
  • *****
  • Posts: 5078
Re: We Got 'GONGED!
« Reply #26 on: November 04, 2007, 01:29:37 PM »
offtopic

The subject isn't persecution, but how a fake religion exploited US personally.



Oh. So sorry. I guess that leaves those of us who weren't there with nothing to say.

That's right.
And there is no liar like the indignant man... -Nietszche

Nothing is so fatiguing as the eternal hanging on of an uncompleted task. -William James

englishmoose.com

George

  • Barfly
  • *
  • Posts: 6135
    • My view of China
Re: We Got 'GONGED!
« Reply #27 on: November 04, 2007, 01:41:59 PM »
Quote
That's right.
But don't worry about it. It was a bit traumatic for those involved, so expect som tetchy replies. agagagagag
The higher they fly, the fewer!    http://neilson.aminus3.com/

Raoul F. Duke

  • Lovable Rogue
  • Despot in Absentia
  • *****
  • Posts: 9572
  • "Be specific if you order the mushrooms!"
Re: We Got 'GONGED!
« Reply #28 on: November 04, 2007, 02:25:47 PM »
I disagree...those not involved directly can and should have something to say. But it should remain on the topic; persecution of religious groups in China may be quite real but doesn't really have much bearing on the particular topic at hand.
"Vicodin and dumplings...it's a great combination!" (Anthony Bourdain, in Harbin)

"Here in China we aren't just teaching...
we're building the corrupt, incompetent, baijiu-swilling buttheads of tomorrow!" (Raoul F. Duke)

Mr Nobody

  • Barfly
  • *
  • Posts: 1532
Re: We Got 'GONGED!
« Reply #29 on: November 11, 2007, 05:33:35 PM »
Totally agree with the boss. (Sucking up due to past indiscretions, not to mention I actually think he is right this time.)
Just another roadkill on the information superhighway.