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[Lotus Eater]

OK - I accept most Chinese business practices. I can understand and accommodate most weird things that happen.

Tonight my boss decided he and I should have  a social night.  All to the good.  So first we hoofed it off to Jiao Da for dancing.  Holy waltz - it was couples dancing.  I am absolutely HOPELESS at this - I tread on peoples feet, my legs hurt after a couple of minutes.  So went off to a really nice little coffee shop on the Jiao Da campus. That bit was fine - he is exactly as I am with written material - gets lost.  My problem was that the written material was all in Chinese!!

Then from there we headed off to my favourite bar to see my favourite guitarists.  This was fine.  My most favourite guitarist invited me to go to the new bar where he was playing other nights of the week - so I took my boss (don't tell me how good I am!!!).   We had another drink, my guitarist introduced me to the laoban, told him if I rocked up, and my guitarist wasn't there he was to IMMEDIATELY call and my guy would front up!!   

Then - disaster - my guitarist introduced me and my boss to a Shaanxi Education Gov't official, and another heavy duty Gov't guy.  They spent the rest of the evening (12-1.00) talking business!!  I was miffed, my guitarist was bored.  So both of us headed for the mike - he to sing and play guitar, me to play drums!

Why don't Chinese businessmen recognise the difference between fun and work??

[Eagle]

Maybe it is "fun" to extend the network - give the man something to talk about with others in his network.

[Mr Nobody]

Nah, I think Lotus is right. They can't tell the difference, I think. Drinking is work. Eating is work. Working involves 'parties' and 'dinners', where people have strict schedules for the party, and everyone leaves once the time expires, and will sometimes leave immediately after eating so they can go to another dinner.

They don't seem to enjoy it much either.

It's all duty.

[mrozark]

I'm GUESSING a Chinese person reading this might say...
"Take advantage of any situation to build guanxi? Well, duh!"
(That's a Chinese valley girl)

In a feudal society there is but one objective.
Constantly make sure your butt is safe by making friends
with as many of the powerful as possible. Work? Secondary.
Fun? What's that? You mean meeting someone powerful?
Or rich? (which also means powerful)

Separation of business and pleasure are luxuries.
Make friends. Make friends. Make powerful friends.

[Calach Pfeffer]

I don't mean to seem churlish here, but "they"?  "Them"?  "Chinese businessmen?"

Anyhoo, I'm going to hazard a guess here and say for them, a sensible distinction between entertainment and occupation assumes someone is at home to be entertained.  That's to say, if identity resides within rather than without.  But exactly why everything becomes immediate, why longer term planning doesn't count, why opportunity is more important than development, I don't know.  I speculate it's the whole communitarian thing: individuals govern what they do less than they might because they govern and are governed by others more than they need.  Spontaneous opportunity is what people are engaged by.  Looked at from the perspective of pecuniary interests, it's "making friends".  Looked at from the perspective of identity, it's just the way things work.

People still guide themselves toward goals.  They still choose.  But they admit a broader range of controlling influences from outside.  Indeed, they seek them out.  And it might be that such inner instincts as remain cannot be fine or cultivated, so this seeking can seem base.


LE, I realise you weren't actually seeking to characterise Chinese businessmen in any particular way, but rather expressing a modest annoyance that a particular evening bogged down some, but I couldn't resist.  I'm a sucker for restrictive narratives.

[Lotus Eater]

  Bingo!!  Mea culpa! I will plead guilty. 

I should have said ' the particular Chinese business man I am working with".  He is very clear about what is work is work and so no mixing work and pleasure during the day, but he is totally not clear about not mixing work with pleasure out of hours - midnight+ on a Saturday night, in a bar with good music is NOT my preferred time of working.  That is a strictly pleasure period for me.  I couldn't believe it when he started the discussion, and I couldn't believe that the other guys went along with it!! Surely if you were a senior provincial Gov't official out on the town, you wouldn't want to be talking work then?? What's in it for him?

[AMonk]

What's in it for him?

A chance to talk shop where the topics are "off" the record, and he can get the straight poop without having to commit to anything but still has a chance to feel out his contacts.??

[Mr Nobody]

Well, tonight I am going out with a chinese businessman who does do it for fun. Rang up and said he would be late because he had a business dinner, needed to get it finished before going out to enjoy a few beers, and would I mind just drinking beer?

What do you reckon I said?

[Acjade]

Cheers?

[Con ate dog]

"Drinking is bad for you.  Let's go to evening mass."

[Mr Nobody]

I ended up teaching drinking English.

Cheerrrrrs not cheese.

It was interesting. Two judges, two lawyers, two businessmen with their own large companies, and one high level govt official, all playing drinking games and getting pshed.

Plus they want me to teach a course in wine, whiskey. beer, and coffee tasting. In English. Plus write about it. Cocktails maybe too.

Sigh. I will see. I wonder if there is money in it? They said at high level rich guys, there is a LOT of interest in this area.

Could be interesting. I will see at our next gathering, if there is one.

[Lotus Eater]

I was invited to dinner last night by the Dean of a uni department who wants to establish a long term relationship with me for editing academic papers.  His students arrived first with a gorgeous bunch of flowers each for my daughter and I, and took us to the restaurant.  A very fancy hotpot place - one where live prawns are on the menu and leap out at you from the bowl on the table.

We chatted, laughed, and talked business for 5 minutes.  But the relationship is established, the first of the papers comes over next week - and they wanted to pay me upfront -i.e. last night!  I don't take the money until I've done the work.

But Chinese business processes are way more fun than Western processes.

[belrain]

Chinese business is much more difficult - and more interesting - than "western" business. If you want to establish real business, one meeting is not enough. In China they say, at the third meeting you can talk about real business.
Drinking is a quite important part at business. The interesting thing here is, many chinese can not drink much alcohol, so they get drunk very quickly. Normally they do this to ensure, next day the foreigners are not clear in mind and their negotiaters, which did not take part in the evening, have an easy game.
And, as mrozark said, a chinese always struggles for power. New relationships, especially with powerful and/or rich people are a step forward in chinese society. If you have powerful friend you can be someone in China. That is also a reason why it is so difficult to find real friendship in China. I know several chinese telling me, real friendship does not exist.
Another reason is, chinese normally do not go to a bar to realx. They relax at a tea house or at Karaoke.

[Con ate dog]

Plus they want me to teach a course in wine, whiskey. beer, and coffee tasting. In English. Plus write about it. Cocktails maybe too.

Sigh. I will see. I wonder if there is money in it? They said at high level rich guys, there is a LOT of interest in this area.

Dude, guanxi IS money.  I can't see how you can resist!  Get me in on it, will you?