China's endgame?

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Re: China's endgame?
« Reply #60 on: January 12, 2021, 08:31:01 PM »
Maybe if someone bothered to ask China they would say what would be appropriate.  I've noticed that you always avoid answering the same question with regard to how you would react if exactly the same thing was done to Australia.  You must think it's ok to have your own people unapologetically abused as long as this ensures that no other nation has to acknowledge any misdeeds against China.

In the meantime, the issue between South Korea and Japan just got shoved back into the limelight:

https://english.kyodonews.net/news/2021/01/70612452d5a3-japan-foreign-minister-protests-s-koreas-comfort-women-ruling.html

Which clearly proves that China is not alone in its objections to Japan's activities during WWII.  Of course, Calach will happily claims that Japan doesn't even owe those Korean women any form of acknowledgement or apology, because that would make it hard for him to not say the same thing about Chinese women given the same (or worse) treatment.  The lack of European ancestry in Korean women may also play a significant role in Calach's thought processes on this issue.

Reparation amounts are always disputable.  Refusal to even acknowledge live victims of such a crime were wronged isn't, except if your brain has soaked up enough Calach-thought.  Once you have, you can justify any bad act merely by thinking like Calach.

Under Calach-thought, if China was also a victim of a crime by another nation, then the crime deserves no acknowledgement and can be covered up.  Any nation complaining about such a crime is automatically demoted to the unworthy "Not Like Us!" category in order to preserve Calach-thought's universal maxim that China somehow is always wrong and doesn't have the right to even point out the flaws of hypocritical nations.

Calach-thought also seems to have trouble of examples between winning nations and losing nations in a war, despite the fact that "war crimes" should be applied equally.  Yet, he seem ok with European nations to receive apologies and to take steps to prevent those crimes from happening again while he exempts the people in Asian nations victimized by Japan from any need to follow Germany's example  This whole thread makes it obvious this flagrant double standard is primarily because China is one of the Asian nations that was abused in that war.

Even though there is no 100% universal definition of rights, Calech-thought uses China not making promises to its citizens that are routinely ignored by his own country and other "One Of Us" nations to support stripping China of any right to complain about any past crime against Chinese citizens, even the use of its citizens for biowarfare experiments or to point out that "One Of Us" countries routinely use their rights declarations for toilet paper when oppressing some segment of their own citizens is convenient.

Of course, the lack if a perfect and universally agreed upon set of rights is also used under Calach-thought to undermine any argument about a "One Of Us" nation to even grudgingly confess to actions that should be reviled by all civilized nations.

Calach-thought justifies oppressing minorities within his own nation and nations in the "One Of Us" category and ignoring sacred pledges granting allegedly universal rights to all citizens because the oppressed minorities lack sufficient global economic power.

To expect China to forgive and forget items that were never properly acknowledged is like expecting African Americans for forget all the murders of black "suspects" at the hands of police in 2020 (and before) until real reforms take place.

It's not. When African Americans are in possession of sufficiently global economic power, then it'll be like that.

This may explain why Calach-thought can so easily ignore not only attempted genocide against Australian's indigenous people, but the fact that they still have a hugely disproportionate number of of "police-related" deaths.

https://www.bbc.com/news/world-australia-52900929

Of course, the BBC is allowed to discuss this flagrant use of Australia's guaranteed rights as toilet paper, but China still lacks standing.

From the Age of Exploration, when the East was opened up to the West (often at gunpoint, just ask Japan), relative to the colonial empires, China did indeed lack possession of sufficiently global economic power, and paid a price.  It wasn't as bad a price as the entire continents that were overrun (Africa, Australia, and the Americas), but if history had been just a little different, the plans to partition and annex China into a set of western colonies had already been drawn up.  So, western nations and even modernized Japan used China as a doormat and felt no need to apologize to such an "inferior" nation.  I believe this contributes to Calach-thought's view of China as being unworthy of any form or respect and acting with great offense if China gets "uppity" and dares to point out the hypocrisy of "superior" nations (especially his own).  "Heaven forbid that the land where kangaroos are granted superior rights to aboriginal peoples ever have to show the slightest trace of respect to some poor backward non-white nation not worthy to crack open a can of Fosters" would seem to be a common thought in those attuned to Calech-thought.

Calech-thought seems to require China to be required to endure continued hypocritical scorn heaped upon it, to never point out the flaws of "superior" countries, and to endure various sanctions without being allowed to retaliate.  This is exactly how school yard bullies want the world to always work.

Oh wait, what if we apply this Calach-thought economic double standard for rights to China vs Australia instead of black vs white America or aboriginals vs white Australia?

Then modern China took a big turn economically.  It's now the world's second largest economy.

Let's apply "possession of sufficiently global economic power" and see.

Australia's 2019 GDP was about 1.38 trillion US$.  China's 2019 GDP was about 14.4 trillion US$.  Guangdong Province alone had a higher GDP than Australia.  The newest projections put China passing the US for Worlds Largest GDP in 2028.

Bullies usually end their bullying careers badly.  They continue to act as if nothing will ever change even as some of their smaller victims hit a growth spurt and pass them in size.  Just as one day the bully's world view is ruined when he finally realizes he can no longer continue terrorizing his victims into compliance with his cruel whims, Calach-thought's dream of Australia becoming the economic and (im)moral leader of SE Asia is being crushed.

If Calech-thought were not so overflowing with inconsistencies and double standards, that twisted though process would allow China to ignore any hint of fairness for Australia and Australians by China, since Australia is certainly not in "possession of sufficiently global economic power" to be worthy of China's respect.

Yet, China doesn't do this.  When it is subjected to hypocritical attacks or trade sanctions, it responds far more proportionately than a certain soon to be former US president did with Canada and Mexico over a perceived unfairness in a well established treaty.

My hope is that very few people will subscribe to Calach-thought.  It wriggles and turns to allow massive injustice done by one set of countries does (even to their own people) while immunizing those countries against criticism from those not in the "One Of Us" club, while also stripping those "Not Like Us (especially China)" countries of any possibility of being able to be operate on a level playing field in trade or any other form of international negotiations.

The world is changing.  A government system different than what nearly all Saloon dwellers grew up with has done things that seemed impossible not so long ago.  No one system stays on top for eternity.  The sooner a new system gets complacent, the sooner it's forced to either reform or face serious loss of its power.  No amount of Calech-thought can stop this.  So far, the West is stuck in denial instead of trying to make any serious changes.  The good news is that China isn't interested in conquering the world, so there's still time for the West to try to live up to it's claimed ideals and find new ways to try make itself more competitive.  If it doesn't, eventually, China will end up being completely unrivaled on top.  Then China will have to work very hard to avoid the same complacency that took down all the previous world leaders, eventually with a chance of being in competition against some new political system that no one's even thought up yet.

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AMonk

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Re: China's endgame?
« Reply #61 on: January 13, 2021, 03:38:52 AM »
Gentlemen -- your civil disagreement, debate and "banter" is in danger of becoming NOT.  Please take care, lest you descend into personal attacks.

Thank you bjbjbjbjbj

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Re: China's endgame?
« Reply #62 on: January 14, 2021, 10:27:28 AM »
Beijing curates history. That is the origin of every dismissal I make of The Humiliation and its meaning. Any investment I make in understanding or even acknowledging the impact of history on China and Chinese as expressed by present day believers and polemicists is exactly proportional to my investment in the wisdom and merit of that curation.

In that respect it is interesting to observe the "baseless speculation" that SARS-CoV-2 has its origin in bats or pangolin. The main reason for ignoring the western conspiracy theory that SARS-CoV-2 originated in a Wuhan lab was the, what's it called? Viral ethnography? The lack of evidence in the genomic structure of tampering and the substantial scientific evidence in that structure of evolutionary similarity to bat coronaviruses.

That's to say, Beijing curates history and seems to do so according to some standard other than verifiable fact. I can observe then that the "century of humiliation" exists now, and it does so in the minds of the believers and polemicists, and that's about all I can observe without recourse to actual historians, who, for all I know, on this topic, might not exist either.

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Re: China's endgame?
« Reply #63 on: January 14, 2021, 05:06:27 PM »
I wish all sides would stop politicizing a naturally evolved virus.  Zoonotic infections happen quite frequently around the world.

Here's just a sample of the evidence against "made in an evil lab" conspiracy theories:

The 2019‐new coronavirus epidemic: Evidence for virus evolution - https://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/full/10.1002/jmv.25688

The proximal origin of SARS-CoV-2 - https://www.nature.com/articles/s41591-020-0820-9

Baseless Conspiracy Theories Claim New Coronavirus Was Bioengineered - https://www.factcheck.org/2020/02/baseless-conspiracy-theories-claim-new-coronavirus-was-bioengineered/

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Re: China's endgame?
« Reply #64 on: January 15, 2021, 03:29:13 PM »
SARS-CoV-2 is not a genetically modified terror virus. The reported science backs this.

The reported science does not, and can not, tell us for how long after it had been found in the wild, SARS-CoV-2 or a near equivalent had been stored at that lab in Wuhan before some hapless gain-of-function researcher went grocery shopping without washing his shoes.

That job, the one of telling us how the mistake happened, isn't even the task of the hapless WHOsearchers soon to be following strict regulations in Wuhan.

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Re: China's endgame?
« Reply #65 on: Yesterday at 05:46:05 PM »
Science does tell us that it is very plausible that the virus passed from an animal to a human without any need for a detour through any lab inside or outside of China.  Viruses do this all the time.

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