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Author Topic: Screw dem women['s paychecks]  (Read 9288 times)

icebear

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Screw dem women['s paychecks]
« on: April 24, 2007, 01:20:20 PM »
Quote
http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,267862,00.html

Women make only 80 percent of the salaries their male peers do one year after college; after 10 years in the work force, the gap between their pay widens further, according to a study released Monday.

I've been reading a fairly heated debate on whether this is 'fair' or not, considering that women take maternity leave etc etc etc, and was curious about folks here felt about it.

Personally, I think equal work should be paid equally. So women should make as much for the same job, but should also plan on accruing whatever necessary 'vacation' time for whenever they decide to give birth. At the same time, I feel that's a bit cold hearted, and with 'oh he should have been raised better' such an easy excuse these days for the psychos and nutjobs out there, maybe mandatory maternity leave is a good thing? I'm just not familiar enough with the subject to talk about it with any certainty...

Also, I'm curious about how this trend holds up in China. My gut tells me its far, far worse here... but I wonder how it works in certain fields/sectors? Women working in finance, for foreign corporations, in the big, rich cities, etc? I know a few women working the stock market who are absolutely rolling in the money, although I have no clue how common that is. I've also been told anecdotally that big corporations here prefer women workers, as they are more reliable than men (not sure how that fits in with the maternity leave issue)...

...and that hanging out at office complexes around quitting time is a great place to meet some ladies  afafafafaf

Eagle

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Re: Screw dem women['s paychecks]
« Reply #1 on: April 24, 2007, 02:10:13 PM »
I will dignify your post with my comments.  As a married man, married to the same woman for 36 years, I wisely respond that women are far superior to males in the work force.  As a father of two girls and one boy, I hope that the rest of the world realises just how good my daughters are and pay them accordingly for their skills and knowledge, not for their gender.  Now with that being said, I would guess that in the end, maternity leave excluded, women are indeed more dependable and more loyal in both management and in subordinate roles in the workplace.  Which, when one thinks about it should translate into higher pay all around.  Equal pay for equal work doesn't necessarily mean people having similar positions get the same pay.  It's about the work performed within the job specifications.  If the work isn't equal though the job is the same, the pay shouldn't be equal. 

'nuff said
“… whatever reality may be, it will to some extent be shaped by the lens
through which we see it.” (James Hollis)

Vegemite

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Re: Screw dem women['s paychecks]
« Reply #2 on: April 24, 2007, 03:17:28 PM »
I've been reading a fairly heated debate on whether this is 'fair' or not, considering that women take maternity leave etc etc etc, and was curious about folks here felt about it.

One thing to keep in mind is that not all countries have legislated maternity leave...at the beginning of this century three of the so-called 'Western' countries didn't have it: NZ, the US and Australia. In NZ, we got it in 2002, and called it Parental Leave so it's open to both parents. Many countries now open their maternity leave to both parents.


"I said, "Do you speak-a my language?"
He just smiled and gave me a vegemite sandwich"

decurso

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Re: Screw dem women['s paychecks]
« Reply #3 on: April 24, 2007, 03:58:42 PM »
I know of a number of cases where a woman has dropped a pup and gone right back to work while dad minds the little one at home on what English speakers may know as "paternity leave".Parenthood isn't just "a woman thing".

 The corperate world is still pretty stoneage in it's treatment of women.My wife used to work for a large corperation (let's call it Blockbuster) and she discovered somebody who had worked with her for half the time she had been there was making substantially more money.Said person had no other special qualifications except a penis.When she raised hell she got her pay raised to the same level.

 Any man who has a pair should consider this an insult to our mothers,wives,sisters,daughters,grandmothers,aunts,really hot second cousins ect

non-dave

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Re: Screw dem women['s paychecks]
« Reply #4 on: April 25, 2007, 01:21:54 AM »
Yeah, I'm insuted! I don't mind getting paid more because I'm smarter, do the job better, am indispensible to the company or just because I could negotiate a better deal than the others - but not just based on gender, colour or any other immaterial factor.

You have to care for it to matter.
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babala

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Re: Screw dem women['s paychecks]
« Reply #5 on: April 25, 2007, 05:29:50 AM »
I can imagine it's a big problem here as women don't get the same resepct in the workplace as men. Although the thing that bothers me the most is that many of them don't seem to care. When asking my students about goals for the future, the males would talk about plans to be managers, factory owners and businessmen. The female's plans went more to being an office assistant or the perfect job of marrying rich and not having to work at all. When I asked the girls if they wanted to make money themselves, they did say yes but when I asked if it was okay if they made more money than their husbands, they all said no. It's okay for us to be successful as long as we're not as successful as our husbands  llllllllll
Kids, you tried your best and you failed miserably. The lesson is, never try. Homer Simpson

cheekygal

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Re: Screw dem women['s paychecks]
« Reply #6 on: April 25, 2007, 01:06:47 PM »
Women in China get a maternity leave for about 6 months (depending on the company they work for). Fathers may enjoy 2 weeks to 1 months paternity leave. Else they can pass it onto their wives in case if "they don't have time for it".

I love maternity leave in Russia: first 1 year you get paid certain amount of your salary, which lessens by the end of the second year to child's support and lasts till the end of the 3rd year. All this while your company must keep your job for you. If after 3 years you don't show up at work - you lose your job.

Mr Nobody

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Re: Screw dem women['s paychecks]
« Reply #7 on: April 25, 2007, 02:40:27 PM »
My wife got one year at full pay for maternity leave here in China. Of course, she didn't get the class teaching fee, but did get the salary. She also got work sent by email, though. Having a bignose who can fix the Engrish ..... however, since that was about one hour a week for me and about 2 for the wife, who gives a poo? The money worked out good.
Just another roadkill on the information superhighway.

Nolefan

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Re: Screw dem women['s paychecks]
« Reply #8 on: April 26, 2007, 05:09:28 AM »
ND's got a point.

there is so much more than gender to the whole salary issues... heck, let's not say salary but compensation. Negotiating skills, timing, personality, usefulnesses, experience are just some of the factors to consider.

Look at the tennis grand slams, I forget which one of them is now giving equal prize money to men and women... granted women play "best of 3 sets" while men have to go through a "best of 5"... where is the fairness in that? and this one is usually with all things considered equal.. 2 players on a court with a racket hitting little balls. usually in the same arenas..
alors régressons fatalement, eternellement. Des débutants, avec la peur comme exutoire à l'ignorance et Alzheimer en prof d'histoire de nos enfances!
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Mr Nobody

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Re: Screw dem women['s paychecks]
« Reply #9 on: April 26, 2007, 04:23:36 PM »
Actually part of it is market, too.

I mean, part of the thing is how much you would pay.

I would pay more to see Johnny Howard strip himself naked, bury himself in shit and flagellate himself with broken bottles dripping in scorpion venom than seeing, for example, ND do the same thing. (sorry mate - everyone needs a hobby)

So, do people pay more to see women or men play tennis? I dunno. Would I pay more for a black female lesbian sort my mail or a crippled male war vet? Is this a choice I can make?

Would a boss take a punt at some woman who can do the job but might just might get married and drop a bundle or some less able man who ain't going nowhere soon. What would be the best investment on average?

Why am I even asking?

To tell the truth, justice, fairness, and rights don't enter into a lot of things they are forced into. Why should I, as a boss, take on someone who I feel, for any reason whatsoever, is less able. It's my money. I should be able to pay who I want what I want.

Stuff mediocrity up the bunghole.
Just another roadkill on the information superhighway.

AMonk

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Re: Screw dem women['s paychecks]
« Reply #10 on: April 26, 2007, 09:31:50 PM »
"Pay who I want what I want"...is the attitude that spurred the formation of Trade Unions. 
Moderation....in most things...

non-dave

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Re: Screw dem women['s paychecks]
« Reply #11 on: April 27, 2007, 03:16:11 AM »
... and what a mistake that turned to be.
You have to care for it to matter.
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Lotus Eater

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Re: Screw dem women['s paychecks]
« Reply #12 on: April 27, 2007, 09:18:07 AM »
Not so certain about that!  They at least gave the vulnerable in society a voice.  Otherwise those who are willing to do the work for the least pay are those hired.  If you're single, living with a couple of mates, no real responsibilities apart from wanting to add amps to your car and drink yourself stupid every weekend, you can take the job offered at $50 a week less than a guy with a family, a mortgage etc.  You'll get hired - because businesses are about bottom line and profit, not social welfare.  Unions helped maintain a balance between profits and social responsibility.

Have a look at the US now - the 'working poor' are a growing percentage of the population.    "Enterprise bargaining" agreements in Australia are steadily working their way down to the individual level.  Unions protected people from enterprises where the bosses would cream of the top, pay themselves first, then cut conditions or wages or benefits for the workers when the downturns hit. 

In China there seems to me to be a desperate need for real unions - ones that do have strong legal voices to protect workers.  The construction industry is a prime example here.  If foreign teachers had real unions here, how many scams would recruiters and schools get away with?  I can say I've been lucky here, but there are plenty of teachers out there who have been ripped off and done the dirty on.  All we can say to them is - tell people who will spread the word and get out before you lose any more.  But if there was a union that would prevent the bosses, recruiters from reneging on contracts - take them through court etc - would it make it a cleaner, better world for us to work in??

I see nothing wrong with the concept of "a fair days work for a fair days pay", with a nice strong arbitrator smack in the centre.  (Can you tell that I used to manage a regional workforce that monitored Industrial Relations and Workplace Health and Safety?  The stories I could tell you about dodgy tricks that bosses would pull merely to save a few dollars a week.  The fines were always bigger than what they saved.  ahahahahah But the stuff up in peoples lives - especially in the WPHS region - way too costly.)

decurso

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Re: Screw dem women['s paychecks]
« Reply #13 on: April 27, 2007, 06:39:00 PM »
  Otherwise those who are willing to do the work for the least pay are those hired.

Hmm...I can think of a job right here in the Middle Kingdom that fits that description.There are probably a lot more but I'd love to have  day alone with every beatnik backpacker who said"like...wouldn'it be like..cool to to go bum around and teach English in China for awhile?"

People like this drive the wages and the working conditions down.They make us all look stupid and gullible.I hate them.

Lotus Eater

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Re: Screw dem women['s paychecks]
« Reply #14 on: April 27, 2007, 08:19:55 PM »
  Otherwise those who are willing to do the work for the least pay are those hired.


People like this drive the wages and the working conditions down.They make us all look stupid and gullible.I hate them.
And this is why unions do GOOD!!  More power to them.