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The BS-Wrestling Pit / Re: Language acquisition - must it start with the basics?
« Last post by Calach Pfeffer on November 01, 2018, 11:37:02 AM »
Some kind of interaction where participants present concrete examples as a way of beginning some discussion or derivation of principled logic underlying or supporting those examples is but one instance of one version of philosophical discourse. I might even go so far as to claim it's one instance of one part of one way of doing philosophical discourse. Probably mostly the analytical part. In fact, the part where the examples were presented probably should be considered as formally distinct from the analytical part. Indeed, if one wanted the analytical part to go well, seeing as how it is focused on some example, there probably should have been some agreement earlier on kinds and types of background knowledge or practice that will be used. (and that agreement can be changed as discussion progresses, but it's worth recognizing it as - seems like - formally distinct from the actual analysis or the example presentation...

Etc and so on and if I keep building on this supposed form, then I'm describing the 4-skills "academic discourse" form again: knowledge, application of knowledge to some situation, analysis of revealed situation, evaluation in light of analytical discoveries....

I wonder how much language one has to learn before one can know they're on the way to that kind of organized speech. (That's kind of a rhetorical wonder because I think the answer is obviously "NONE AT ALL!!!! YOU DON'T NEED ANY AMOUNT OF SECOND LANGUAGE TO KNOW ABOUT ORGANIZING DISCOURSES!!!"

I think it'd be a substantial move forward in language learning if overall organization of language production could be known in advance, or at least gestured toward. People could use pre-existing education to get a cognitive leg up on learning. For the people who don't ordinarily pay that much attention to their daily experiences even in their first language, it'd be a boon.

Or so I speculate.
The Champagne Cabana / Re: Happy Birthday Sam Smith!
« Last post by Sam Smith on November 01, 2018, 07:05:21 AM »
A belated thank you!
I'm not saying you need to learn all the bus directions, but you need at least some background before leaping into dealing with philosophical complexities like "How do you know you exist?" or "What makes Gong Li the most beautiful woman in history?"

I suppose it would be possible to start with some lower level philosophical debate examples instead of starting solely with ordinary items that might or might not come up in examples.
The Champagne Cabana / Re: Happy 40th Nolefan!
« Last post by Escaped Lunatic on November 01, 2018, 06:47:29 AM »
Hope you remembered to kiss your youth goodbye! ahahahahah

Happy B-Day!  cecececece

Let me see.  I've got a bottle of something from the Umbrella Corporation with a biohazard label on it.  Drink up! agagagagag
The Bar (ON-TOPIC) / RIP Jin Yong
« Last post by Calach Pfeffer on November 01, 2018, 05:03:51 AM »
'China's Tolkien': millions mourn death of martial arts novelist Jin Yong

Fans across the Chinese-speaking world mourned the death of martial arts writer Louis Cha, better known by his pen name Jin Yong, who died on Tuesday afternoon.

Cha, 94, best known for his epic wuxia novels following kung fu heroes in ancient China, passed away in a hospital in Hong Kong after a long illness, according to Hong Kong media.

While few of his books have been translated into English, Cha is one of the world’s most-read Chinese authors, with fans across China, Hong Kong, Taiwan and throughout the Chinese diaspora. His stories have been adapted into television shows, films, comic books, and video games. The first part of his most popular series, Legends of the Condor Heroes, was published in English earlier this year...
The Champagne Cabana / Re: Happy 40th Nolefan!
« Last post by Calach Pfeffer on November 01, 2018, 05:02:35 AM »
The Champagne Cabana / Happy 40th Nolefan!
« Last post by Granny Mae on October 31, 2018, 09:45:54 PM »
Happy Birthday Nolefan. I hope that you have a very special 40th Birthday! agagagagag bfbfbfbfbf cecececece :candyraver: :banana: :dancemj: jjjjjjjjjj :grouphug:
I think there are more frameworks. "Daily life" after all is but one type of discourse. There doesn't seem any truly compelling reason for making "daily life" be the primary discourse. What, scientific discourse contains no simple words, no mundane grammar? Academic discourse won't include examples? And so on. I'm pretty sure any *form* of interest (as opposed to the interest area itself) can be adapted to the needs of language teaching. Whatever way discourse is usually structured in that interest area, let's call that the form of the interest area, and let's acknowledge all the arcana - the big words and the highfalutin concepts - that go with the interest area to be suitable for *intermediate* instruction, and let's pause a moment and say, what, you can't use the form with little words?

Daily life isn't the core of beginner language learning because it's necessary. It's not even the lowest of the lowest common denominators.
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