Raoul's China Saloon (V4.0 Beta)

The Bar Room => The Legalities Board: Visas, Permits, Taxes, and More! (ON-TOPIC) => Topic started by: bobrage on June 04, 2014, 06:40:15 AM

Title: "Green Card" Update
Post by: bobrage on June 04, 2014, 06:40:15 AM
Quote from: BBC
Media welcome China's plan to relax its immigration laws allowing foreigners to apply for longer residency rights.

According to local media reports, the Organizational Department of the Central Committee of the Communist Party of China announced on Monday that it was planning to ease regulations on granting permanent residency to foreigners.

China's green-card policy was launched in 2004 with the aim of attracting foreign experts and people with huge investments by giving them permanent residency.

Some of the the current requirements state that foreigners have to be "elite talents" or should have invested at least $500,000 (£298,000) in China to be eligible for permanent residency, the Xinhua News agency says.

The Beijing News notes that China only gives out 248 green cards each year, which is "very small" when compared with 27 million foreigners who enter the country every year.

But China is now planning to change its 2004 green-card policy to attract foreign talent. However, authorities have not given any details of the expected changes in the immigration law.

The China Daily observes that the country is facing a talent "deficit" as "more experts are leaving than entering, prompting the relaxation of the policy".

Wang Zhenyao, the director of Centre for China and Globalization, suggests that the new plan should "cover a larger group of foreigners who have good education and stable jobs".

"Also, the government should use the green card to attract overseas Chinese back," he tells the daily.

An article in the Beijing News quips that with the current stringent requirement, "the world's wealthiest people such as Bill Gates may not even meet the criteria because he does not have individual direct investment in China".

Supporting the proposed change to attract talent, the paper adds that as China progresses, the country will not only need foreign investment but also "foreign brains".

http://www.bbc.com/news/world-asia-china-27676149
http://english.cntv.cn/2014/06/02/ARTI1401694641905153.shtml
http://www.chinadaily.com.cn/china/2014-06/03/content_17558013.htm

And

http://epaper.bjnews.com.cn/html/2014-06/03/content_515180.htm?div=-1

If you can read Mandarin.

Well now this is an interesting little development.  Since 2004 there have been an average of 248 people per year granted "Permanent Residence" in China.  That's something like 0.004% of the resident population of non-Chinese nationals.  Not alot at all.

This seems to be the realization of some of the hints made in the recent 2013 immigration regulation changes.  I am particularly keen on the notion of "stable employment" and the concept of "sponsorship" by a state sector organization mentioned in on of the other pieces. 

This would be something which I would be very interested in.

A more rational approach to long term residence, which isn't based around throwing half a million kuai into a joint melon growing venture in Gansu, would be a real boost to the standing of China as a professional environment.  Every year, China "leaks" thousands of good teachers who have come here, upskilled, and then toddled off because they have no future here.  Under the right circumstances, and with the right employers, this kind of legislation would help to retain existing skills and encourage people to make a serious investment in their careers within China, rather than treating it as a transient "stopping point".

Good news. 

Maybe.

YMMV.

[edit]

Obviously wailaw has something to say about this too: http://lawandborder.com/ccp-considers-easing-green-card-requirements/

Although it seems to have taken him by surprise a little.  Most of the news seems to have failed to connect the dots but if, like me, you are an assiduous reader of the websites of state organs then you'll have spotted ...

Xi JP attended a conference for Foreign Experts in May and said some nice things, including:

Quote from: CNDaily
He said China had long valued talent and it was now more urgent than ever to expand this input and include more experts from throughout the world.

The country needed to implement a more open talent policy, to bring in talent no matter where it came from, make the most use of it and trust it fully, he said.

[...]

Describing foreign experts as "private ambassadors" and members of the Chinese family, Xi called on them to communicate a "comprehensive, true and dynamic China" to the world.

And less than a month later the Central Committee releases a statement?  Seems to suggest that some attention is actually being paid to this issue and that change may therefore come.

I like the bit about "trusting it fully" as well - I think that's a suggestion that "what is written down should be what actually happens".
Title: Re: "Green Card" Update
Post by: Escaped Lunatic on June 05, 2014, 08:26:50 AM
Not sure if my array of Lunatic Talents will help me out on this or not. ahahahahah  1 year, 9 months, and 27 days to go until I qualify for a greencard based on marriage.

If there is a way to qualify more quickly, I'll be happy to speed up my timetable.

Title: Re: "Green Card" Update
Post by: BrandeX on June 05, 2014, 12:23:45 PM
Just being married for 5 years isn't sufficient, or I'd have one already too.
Title: Re: "Green Card" Update
Post by: Arnold J. Rimmer on June 05, 2014, 11:28:54 PM
I asked Escaped Lunatic in that spousal visa thread what the requirements are for the 'green card' but I guess he didn't see it.

Can any of you elaborate further on what it takes please?

Is language ability needed? A certain amount of money? Anything else?
Title: Re: "Green Card" Update
Post by: bobrage on June 06, 2014, 12:24:58 AM
Invest half a million RMB in a joint or charitable venture (lower in the Western Development Region) or help a well connected Chinese guy make a similar amount of money. 
Title: Re: "Green Card" Update
Post by: The Local Dialect on June 06, 2014, 12:57:15 AM
Just being married for 5 years isn't sufficient, or I'd have one already too.

Have you applied and been turned down?

Technically, people who have been married 5 years are eligible. My feeling is that you may need to grease certain palms, or pull certain strings, however.
Title: Re: "Green Card" Update
Post by: BrandeX on June 06, 2014, 02:21:35 AM
Yes, I don't own a home in my name so they essentially told me to get out and don't waste time applying last year. Also you need proof of sustainable long term income, as well as tax record for the past few years in China.
Title: Re: "Green Card" Update
Post by: Escaped Lunatic on June 06, 2014, 08:38:23 AM
Yes, I don't own a home in my name so they essentially told me to get out and don't waste time applying last year. Also you need proof of sustainable long term income, as well as tax record for the past few years in China.

Being married for 5 years is the minimum needed to apply (unless you get in under investment or some other program).  Of course, having other things (tax records, property, etc., etc.) is also useful if you want the application to be approved.  Unfortunately, exact approval requirements aren't published, so I've been checking out hukou point systems for clues.


Benefits - no annual medical probing or RP applications.  An easier time with a lot of other paperwork.  The ability to wait a year and then apply for something that drives my fellow westerners (Especially Americans) off the deep end if I dare to mention it.


Title: Re: "Green Card" Update
Post by: bobrage on June 06, 2014, 08:50:11 AM
Unfortunately, exact approval requirements aren't published, so I've been checking out hukou point systems for clues.

http://www.shanghai.gov.cn/shanghai/node27118/node27866/node27987/index.html

The municipalities actually tell people stuff.  Not that's it's necessarily accurate or timely.
Title: Re: "Green Card" Update
Post by: Tree on June 06, 2014, 01:45:06 PM
The ability to wait a year and then apply for something that drives my fellow westerners (Especially Americans) off the deep end if I dare to mention it.

I'm dumb enough to follow up on this. Feel free to PM if rather incendiary.
Title: Re: "Green Card" Update
Post by: Arnold J. Rimmer on June 07, 2014, 02:16:19 AM
The ability to wait a year and then apply for something that drives my fellow westerners (Especially Americans) off the deep end if I dare to mention it.

I'm dumb enough to follow up on this. Feel free to PM if rather incendiary.

Me too please EL.

No idea what you mean!
Title: Re: "Green Card" Update
Post by: Stil on June 07, 2014, 04:52:29 AM
He means permanent residency/citizenship which would mean giving up his US citizenship. It's true that a lot of people lose their mind over this being mentioned.
Title: Re: "Green Card" Update
Post by: BrandeX on June 07, 2014, 08:06:37 AM
Yes, I don't own a home in my name so they essentially told me to get out and don't waste time applying last year. Also you need proof of sustainable long term income, as well as tax record for the past few years in China.

Being married for 5 years is the minimum needed to apply (unless you get in under investment or some other program).  Of course, having other things (tax records, property, etc., etc.) is also useful if you want the application to be approved.

To be more specific, I was not allowed to file an application at all, because they asked first if I owned a property in my name (besides being married) and as I don't they wouldn't give me any forms or w/e is used to apply for the card and asked me to leave.
Title: Re: "Green Card" Update
Post by: The Local Dialect on June 07, 2014, 10:46:00 AM
He means permanent residency/citizenship which would mean giving up his US citizenship. It's true that a lot of people lose their mind over this being mentioned.

Yes. We've had this discussion before. It is not the green card that makes people react, but EL has mentioned repeatedly that he'd like to become a full on Chinese citizen, if possible. Understandably, most think this is a pretty stupid thing to do exactly what you'd expect from a lunatic.
Title: Re: "Green Card" Update
Post by: bobrage on June 08, 2014, 12:29:50 AM
He who makes a Chinese citizen of himself removes the pain of being a man.
- Dr. Johnson

It's the only way you can feel no shame when your belly is hanging out.
Title: Re: "Green Card" Update
Post by: Escaped Lunatic on June 09, 2014, 01:06:13 PM
Well, I had been keeping that conversation in the upstairs areas, but since a couple of people decided to ignore the "what's said upstairs stays upstairs" rule, I'll go ahead and lay it out for everyone here.  Apologies in advance for taking this thread a bit off topic, but citizenship is often a follow-on to greencards in many countries, so it's not a complete wrecking of the thread.  If this does get out of control, I guess we can spin it off into a new topic.

Before getting into the reasons, I'd like to assault the core of some of the objections I've gotten, both in the Saloon as well as items I've found online about others who have or are planning on changing from US to any other citizenship.

If I went to nearly any US citizen and said "I've married a foreign woman, want to settle down in the US of A, and she'll be getting her greencard, then become an loyal M'rican citizen, and we'll spend our final years getting bedsores in adjacent cots in a Soon To Be Soylent Green Containment Zone retirement hacienda, the universal reaction would be "how wonderful!"  The reaction would be akin to walking into a conservative church and announcing the successful conversion of a "heathen" to the one true faith.

On the other hand, the general reactions of US citizens to any of their fellow citizens considering changing their allegiance to ANY other flag are  . . . less than positive.  If it's becoming a Brit, Kiwi, or some other "civilized" place, it's sort of the reaction I'd get if I announcing to my Southern Baptist parents that I'm becoming Catholic - not happy, but at least it's closely related.  Pick a country much more afield and the reaction becomes a twisted mix of "Blasphemer!" and "Treason against your homeland!"

The US government itself is rather vindictive.  If you give up your citizenship, it's forever (unlike China bjbjbjbjbj).  A requirement to publish the names of those who dare to renounce their citizenship was also enacted to try to frighten people way from doing this.  At least the reports are that tourist/business visas aren't an issue for former citizens and that greencards (with no citizenship option) are a possibility.  I'll personally be happy with a tourist/business visa in case I need to drop in for something.

I personally find it odd that "a nation of immigrants" can't handle the very thought of it's own citizens becoming immigrants somewhere else.  If me thinking about giving up my citizenship somehow makes me a traitor, what does this say about every immigrant who gave up their old citizenship to become a newly minted US citizen?

So, I'll hope everyone here can avoid falling into the "Getting US citizenship is a wonderful thing and giving it up is somehow evil" hypocrisy.  Yes, citizenship of any county has advantages and disadvantages, but the last time I checked, "America" wasn't supposed to be a religious faith that persecuted people who gave it up, and "Americanism" as an ideology also wasn't quite as perfect as children are subtly programmed to believe in in during Sunday school and elementary school.  If someone here can't handle the core concept that different people might desire different citizenships, then this conversation won't get very far.

So, if we can dispense with the instinctive defensive USA Über Alles viewpoint, then on to more practical reasons and objections:

Everyone here who's ever lived in China knows that even a 6 month teaching contract isn't for everyone.  Then again, there are people reading this who came for a 6 month or 1 year contract and have been here a lot longer than I have.

Some of you will eventually "go home."  Whether or not you consider changing your citizenship, I know at least a few of you are like me.  You can't go home - since you already are home.

Home is where I am now.  I like to travel, but this is where I want to come back to.  This is where I want one of the following to be done with my corpse:

a.  buried
b.  incinerated
c.  made into tasty green crackers ababababab
d.  cryogenically preserved so that I can be defrosted to annoy people in the future.

I know some of you are planning to retire somewhere besides China or your homelands.  If that's what makes you happy, then I wish you a long and entertaining retirement wherever you end up.  For me, I'm happy here and don't want to head off hunting for greener pastures as I get greyer.

But citizenship?  In China?

Let me go through the usual objections and my answers.

1.  What about Visas?  Yeah, Chinese citizens are at a disadvantage when it comes to travel arrangements to a lot of places.  The good news is that this is showing some signs of improvement.  The bad news for me is that I'm helping the inlaws do their forms for US tourist visas this week and the damned thing wants even crazier amounts of info than I remembered (every job I've ever had, complete with address, phone number, and supervisor's name - Eeeek!).  My personal news - other than business trips, my wife and often my daughter are with me, so the visa burden won't really be that big of a deal.

2.  Health care?  One of my lovely personal angels moved from Dongguan to HK.  Thanks to meeting her in a hotel and handing her large piles of money, I finally have an industrial strength western-style set of insurance policies (and the very sad confirmation that signing up for insurance does not come with a happy ending even if the insurance agent is a very close friend ananananan).  DG itself has pretty good hospitals and the dentists have even been informed of anesthetics, so many of the nightmare scenarios people have trotted out are not going to be an issue for me.  Plus, I can elect to have any really complex surgery done anywhere outside of the USA.  Yeah, America has some of the world's best hospitals, but none of my US plans would let me run off and check myself in at a hospital in London, Tokyo, or Hong Kong if I didn't like the nearby options.

Just don't tell my lovely wife that my life insurance makes me worth a lot more dead than alive. ahahahahah

3.  Does your wife really want to move to the US?  I'm sure there are plenty of lovely ladies in China who would have been happy to marry me for my long and thick . . . citizenship (almost as many as for my big, hard wallet).  Those aren't the kind of girls I hang out with.  If every girl you meet thinks that way, you need to rethink were you are meeting girls.

I'm sure if I really wanted to move back, I could probably talk my wife into it, but not until after our lovely daughter gets married.  Since I don't want to move back, I look forward to someday sitting around watching my grandchildren drive my daughter crazy.

4.  Wouldn't moving to the US would make it easier to get my daughter into a US University?  Maybe, bit her other father isn't letting me drag her off to another country until she's graduated high school, and first we have to get her into a decent high school next year. ananananan  Besides, I already have the US Uni admissions policy covered.  If she really wants to go to an American university and can't get in as a freshman, I know which community colleges in Florida are well rated.  She's already reached the point where I think she could get an adequate score on the TOEFL, and with that little obstacle removed, those are open enrollment.  2 years later, she's guaranteed admission at any of the state uni's in Florida and may yet become the 4th generation of Lunatics to attend my alma matter. ababababab  If she doesn't want Florida, I'll have to find out what other states have the same rules.

5.  Why not settle for a green card?  I could also ask the same question of why people with a US greencard don't just stick with the greencard, but decide to apply for US citizenship.  I'll wager most of them aren't doing it just to vote for the least scary presidential candidate every 4 years and to have an easier time getting travel visas.

For me, the green card is both my fallback option as well as the first step.  Only a handful of non-Chinese related foreigners have ever become citizens, so I don't expect to fill out a one page form, hand it across the desk to the immigration guy and get told "come back and pick up your Chinese ID in a week."  Getting approved may take some time.

First step?  Yep!  Finding facts on this project of mine has been challenging.  I finally managed to get a few questions answered directly by someone reasonably high up the food chain at the local entry/exit bureau of foreigner herding.  According to him, it seems the part of the nationality law that says "settling down in China" as a valid reason has been interpreted as "has held a permanent residence permit for at least 1 year".  So, I NEED that green card as the first step.  I've just heard that there is a proposal to make it 3 years after getting a green card, but with more fixed qualifications (such as a citizenship test).

But, back to the question - why not settle for a greencard?  Simple.  I plan to be here forever.  "Permanent" residency actually is on a 10 year renewal.  If policies change, it's possible that retirees could be pushed out.  It's possible that some of the common (and horrible) diseases associated with aging could be added to a list of reasons to not renew it.  It's possible that my pathological need to jaywalk could eventually move me to a list of troublemakers and result in my deportation - unless I'm a citizen.

6.  But how can you leave the #1 most perfect country in the universe?  (Yeah, I tried to dismiss this earlier, but I know some of you are still stuck on that idea, so couldn't resist taking another shot at it.)  Look at the social trends.  Look at the financial statistics.  Think long term.  Be afraid.  Be very afraid.  Rome didn't fall in a day, but fall it did.  If I wasn't in love with China, I'd be checking out other countries and looking for the softest landing possible.  As it is, soft or hard landing, this is where I want to be.  What if I'm wrong and bqbqbqbqbq and fan collide here worse than the US?  I consider this unlikely, but social and financial analysis are both very inexact sciences, so feel free to predict your own personal doomsday however you like.  If this did happen, I wouldn't consider leaving my wife and daughter behind and run to the consulate waving my passport while screaming "Save me, for I am one of the chosen ones!"  My personal "End Of Civilization As We Know It" plan is to gather up my friends, "borrow" anything that floats, run up the Jolly Roger, and say "Yo Ho Ho!" a lot.  Personally, I think I'd enjoy that a lot more than the typical US plan of hiding in a bunker and shooting at gangs of cannibals.

7.  What about dual citizenship?  Two problems.  First, the USA allows it, but doesn't recognize it.  Second, the act of becoming a Chinese citizen requires surrendering all other citizenships.  Approval isn't finalized until papers are presented confirming this has been done.  Happily, they do give a firm "IF you give up the other(s), we WILL take you" before one needs to give up tany other citizenship, so there's no chance if ending up stateless by accident.



I'm not trying to recruit others to change their citizenship.  I just feel that I want to change mine to fit my plan for the rest of my life.  Some people couldn't handle a vacation in China, much less being here for life.  Personally, the thought of a vacation in Iowa fills me with terror, but there really are people who actually move there voluntarily. mmmmmmmmmm  Getting my greencard and then acquiring Chinese citizenship is my personal quest, and I'm not planning on giving up.

BTW - I finally found out what it will say for my nationality.  I thought I'd get labelled as Kazakh, Russian, or one of the other minority nationalities that I might be able to pass for.   It turns out addition to the 56 nationalities, a few "unrecognized" nationalities that managed to get their names added to an alternates list, there are 2 other categories.  One is for unrecognized nationalities that don't have their names on the list of alternates.  The final choice translates roughly to foreigner who became Chinese.  I've already done it in my heart.  Now, I want the ID an passport to go with it.

Title: Re: "Green Card" Update
Post by: The Local Dialect on June 09, 2014, 03:15:12 PM
I honestly thought this was discussed in the marriage and family board EL, not upstairs. It was a long time ago so memory was kind of fuzzy and I didn't go back to check. If you want this all moved, it can be.
Title: Re: "Green Card" Update
Post by: Escaped Lunatic on June 10, 2014, 12:17:12 AM
No problem.  It was going to come out sooner or later.  I just hope the discussion can be focused more on real issues than emotional reactions (and over-reactions) this time.
Title: Re: "Green Card" Update
Post by: bobrage on June 10, 2014, 02:04:56 AM
I haven't got any problem with people switching their citizenship around.  It's not like it's an intrinsic part of you or anything, we are a particular nationality only by the performance of that association, whatever form that performance may take (from having a bit of paper saying "You Are Brobdignagian" through to dressing in the Union Jack and pissing yourself when some posh doe eyed twit has a car crash in Paris).

I don't think you'll be able to get Chinese citizenship though.  I mean, I hope you can, but I don't think you cat's chance in hell. 

Title: Re: "Green Card" Update
Post by: Escaped Lunatic on June 10, 2014, 10:07:28 AM
Despite my plan to disassociate my citizenship from the USA, there is one homegrown attitude I hope to firmly hold onto.

Impossible just means extremely difficult.

Tell enough Americans that something is impossible and one will find a way to do it just for the joy of proving you wrong.  Others may suffer terrible, even fatal injuries trying, but sooner or later, there will be some crazy guy standing over all the broken wreckage of men and machines saying "Nope, not impossible.  I just did it."

If I took "impossible" for an answer, I'd have never made it to China in the first place.

Even of they make it extremely difficult, I found out long ago that there is no rule in a bureaucracy without an exception.  All it takes if finding the correct form and getting the correct person to sign it.  There's always a way over, under, or around any regulation.  You just have to be crazy and determined enough to find it.

Hong Kong provides a backdoor way to score Chinese citizenship for those willing to take the time (and has done so for thousands of less-than-wealthy non-Chinese people from nearby countries).  If I were younger (ananananan) and could afford living in Hong Kong (ananananan), I wouldn't have to say that I'll "try" to get citizenship.  I'd be able to say "in X years, I will be a Chinese citizen."

Based on the info my lovely darling gave me while I was writing that essay I posted on the subject yesterday, it looks like the proposals are already hitting the table to turn insanely difficult all the way down towards very difficult.

I think the concept of "Chinese Citizenship for Non-Chinese is Impossible" is going to turn into Chinese Citizenship for Non-Chinese tomorrow will be about as difficult as a greencard is today."

I wonder what a Chinese citizenship test will have on it.  Damn, I'm not just going to have to learn to speak the language, I'm going to have to learn how to read and write to pass that.  That's going to be my biggest challenge. ahahahahah

So, while desperately hoping f someone invents "Instant Mandarin" pills, I need to figure out what else I can do to improve my chances of getting that green card it looks like I'll be needing.

Title: Re: "Green Card" Update
Post by: Calach Pfeffer on June 10, 2014, 10:47:52 AM
If your citizenship were put to the test in some way - say for instance, you find yourself seeking some legal right normally granted to citizens - how often will rule of law (and therefore your citizenship) trump the Chinese tendency to group themselves according to race? That is, as far as Chinese seem to be concerned, "Chinese" is a racial category and one is born into it or isn't in it at all. Will officials often still be persuaded to allow law to beat out prejudice?

(I'm not seeking to be critical with this question - just curious really about how far rule of law does apply generally in different places here.)
Title: Re: "Green Card" Update
Post by: bobrage on June 11, 2014, 12:57:15 AM
What hukou will you have?

You could confuse the dilly out of the "tour" providers in Shenzhen by rocking up there with your Chinese passport and being like "I need a tour to visit HK because my hukou is Bumblescum-by-Anhui-Nan".

Will you be eligible for Party membership?  If not, what about joining one of the other parties in the Popular Front?
Title: Re: "Green Card" Update
Post by: Escaped Lunatic on June 11, 2014, 03:46:50 AM
If I pull this off (and I bloody well WILL pull this off!), I'm sure there will be some Chinese people who won't accept me as Chinese.  Then again, I know some Americans who seem suspicious of anyone who doesn't have the Stars and Bars displayed on their pickup truck.  How the possibility of prejudice translates into legal treatment is like everywhere else it the world - it mostly depends on the how local officials decide to deal with it.

On the other hand, my local village seems to have slowly realized that I'm not a tourist or factory boss on a 2 year assignment.  This year at Dragon Boats, they didn't even write foreigner or American next to my name on the donations board.

The impending hukou is a matter of some concern.  My lovely wife (holder of a DG hukou) decided to acquire another apartment in her hometown.  I told her to keep my name off it is, since I don't want to end up with a Jiangxi hukou by accident.  Instead, she's going to add me to an apartment she owns here in DG.  Personally, I'm REALLY hoping to get a proper peasant hukou in my village.  I'm told that this is technically impossible, but have already found one feasible legal loophole that would (admittedly with some modest difficulty) allow me to move an existing hukou here.  Personally, I'd prefer to see if I can get a village hukou from day 1.

When going to HK, I always automatically get shunted to the non-Chinese line.  I'm looking forward to the entertainment that holding a Chinese passport will cause. ahahahahah

Party membership?  I'm a little old the join the Youth League and haven't really looked into what options there may or may not be.  I'll probably limit my political ambitions to seeking an official appointment to the local branch of the Bureau of Appreciation of the Female Form.
Title: Re: "Green Card" Update
Post by: bobrage on June 11, 2014, 04:10:31 AM
Shouldn't your hukou ultimately be determined by where you want your child to sit their gaokao?  Seems to me like your aren't really Chinese if you ain't putting that first.
Title: Re: "Green Card" Update
Post by: The Local Dialect on June 11, 2014, 09:07:25 AM
Why do you want a village hukou EL? I mean, I guess children aren't a concern since your daughter is a stepdaughter and your hukou would have nothing to do with her eventual gaokao or anything else (and, to be frank, if you somehow make this happen, it will surely be years from now and said daughter will be well past the age of caring about such things). But aside from a pitiful villager pension (which they probably wouldn't give you anyhow), there's no benefit to a village hukou aside from novelty.

However, I think to have any chance of making this happen you'll have to have a gagillion hong bao at the ready to pay off the myriad people who will try and stand in your way. I don't think it has a chance in hell of happening without greasing some wheels. And maybe not even then.
Title: Re: "Green Card" Update
Post by: bobrage on June 11, 2014, 10:10:24 AM
If you want a Pakistani passport - legit and functional for international travel and residence - then you can get one in London for about 500GBP.  Local embassy there is bent as a two bob bit.
Title: Re: "Green Card" Update
Post by: Granny Mae on June 11, 2014, 11:54:52 PM
EL, you are a very special person! agagagagag I hope it all works out for the best. bfbfbfbfbf
Title: Re: "Green Card" Update
Post by: Escaped Lunatic on June 12, 2014, 03:40:25 AM
Even if I get citizenship with a village hukou tomorrow, it won't change my lovely daughter's DG hukou.  Then again, if she doesn't crack down and study for her high school admission in the remaining few days of this academic year, college won't be a worry. kkkkkkkkkk

2 reasons for a village hukou.

First, Escaped Lunatic - Certified Peasant.  bjbjbjbjbj ababababab

Second (and far more important), complete land ownership in the village requires a village hukou.  Anything less is just a rental with the possibility of losing the rights with little or no compensation.  I've already found one possible tiny crack in that brick wall, but having a hukou would be a far easier solution.

I rather like the thought of owning my own house here in the village.

Title: Re: "Green Card" Update
Post by: Escaped Lunatic on March 02, 2015, 06:50:23 AM
One more step forward on my Long March. agagagagag

Right next to my laptop are two pieces of paper.

One is white and covered in Chinese writing.  It says EXACTLY what paperwork I need to turn in with a Green Card via marriage form.

The other is green (ok, green-ish, more of an aqua color) and it titled Application for Permanent Residence in China (For Those Seeking Reunion with Spouses).  It's bilingual and only a single page printed on both sides.  It is very simple and straightforward.

Next March, I'll get an updated copy, just in case there are any changes.  I plan to turn it in on April 1st, 2016. ababababab
Title: Re: "Green Card" Update
Post by: AMonk on March 02, 2015, 12:19:58 PM
... I plan to turn it in on April 1st, 2016.

 agagagagag agagagagag A most fitting date agagagagag agagagagag
Title: Re: "Green Card" Update
Post by: BrandeX on March 03, 2015, 04:03:21 AM
One more step forward on my Long March. agagagagag

Right next to my laptop are two pieces of paper.

One is white and covered in Chinese writing.  It says EXACTLY what paperwork I need to turn in with a Green Card via marriage form.

The other is green (ok, green-ish, more of an aqua color) and it titled Application for Permanent Residence in China (For Those Seeking Reunion with Spouses).  It's bilingual and only a single page printed on both sides.  It is very simple and straightforward.

Next March, I'll get an updated copy, just in case there are any changes.  I plan to turn it in on April 1st, 2016. ababababab
Can you list, or perhaps scan and post if you can't write, exactly what the form says you need?
Title: Re: "Green Card" Update
Post by: Escaped Lunatic on March 03, 2015, 10:14:32 AM
Nooo!!!! I've been trying to get this for years.  It's mine!  ALL MINE!!! AHAHAHA!!!

Well, I guess I could share a photo.

Documents needed include:
4 photos
Passport
Marriage certificates
Health certificate (same as normal one for a Z visa?)
Certification of non-criminality, both in China and in home country
Rental proof and/or deed to home
Spouse's hukou

Title: Re: "Green Card" Update
Post by: The Local Dialect on March 03, 2015, 01:37:23 PM
I got a 2 year spousal residence permit this year which I had to do a health check for. The 1 year didn't require a health check. It was the same as the work visa health check, you just checked a different box on the form that they give you for the health check but the rest was the same.

We asked about the green card earlier this year and the PSB cops advised that it was going to get easier to get green cards, but to hold off for a year or so and see how the new policies are going to be implemented. So your timing might be just right EL.
Title: Re: "Green Card" Update
Post by: BrandeX on March 04, 2015, 12:59:33 AM
Rental proof and/or deed to home
Eh!?

I don't actually have to buy a home first now? That was the only bit I was missing afaik.

Thanks for the pics!

Also, I've gotten the 2 year resident permit w/o health check.
Title: Re: "Green Card" Update
Post by: Escaped Lunatic on March 05, 2015, 05:42:59 AM
They want to know where you've been living.  I think they finally caught on that some foreigners rent and some deeds are only in the Chinese spouse's name.  Happily for me, my name is now on the deed to one apartment, but I do intend to keep renting here in the village for the foreseeable future.  I'm hoping that over 6 years in the same location (as of the date I'll turn in the application) gives a firm confirmation that I'm not going anywhere.

One other requirement (not sure where it's written) is 9 months of each of those 5 years needs to be inside of China.  Guess I'll save my plans for a 4 month vacation in Tahiti until later.

Ran into one snag.  My brother the cop says he doesn't know how to process a criminal background check (as opposed to running one on someone he just arrested).  How exactly does one apply for one of those inside the USA? mmmmmmmmmm
Title: Re: "Green Card" Update
Post by: BrandeX on March 05, 2015, 12:09:43 PM
What about providing proof of income and bank account to show financial stability? That has been a requirement.
Under reunion with spouse, section 2.
http://www.candleforlove.com/FAQ/ChineseApps/ChinaPR01-03.jpg

As for the records check, perhaps one from the FBI is suitable.

Some info:
http://travel.state.gov/content/passports/english/abroad/legal-matters/criminal-record-check.html
http://guangzhou.usembassy-china.org.cn/criminal-record-checks-for-u.s.-citizens
http://www.fbi.gov/foia/requesting-fbi-records
Title: Re: "Green Card" Update
Post by: Escaped Lunatic on March 06, 2015, 12:42:31 AM
I need to get my wife to do a full translation of that document.  I seem to recall she mentioned something about income the first time, but didn't repeat that when I was asking her for the list of docs.

Thanks for the links.  I'm glad they don't include Lunatic certifications.  ahahahahah
Title: Re: "Green Card" Update
Post by: El Macho on March 06, 2015, 03:55:33 AM
Criminal background checks are really easy to do. Check your home state's state patrol website. They probably can do the background check online just using your name, DOB, SSN, and DL number.
Title: Re: "Green Card" Update
Post by: Escaped Lunatic on March 06, 2015, 05:38:26 AM
Looks like they finally wised up in a lot of states and want fingerprints.  Happily the Feds standardized fingerprint cards.  Next time I'm stateside, I'll visit some local cop shop and see if I can get a few dozen sets made so I can do everything else by mail.
Title: Re: "Green Card" Update
Post by: Tree on March 07, 2015, 04:49:42 AM
If you wanna take a chance you can print out the standardized fingerprint form and give it a go yourself. A few practice runs and you'll get it in no time.
Title: Re: "Green Card" Update
Post by: El Macho on March 09, 2015, 04:03:45 AM
When you get printed by the local cops (state patrol?) in the US, you might want to get another set of prints taken to send to the FBI for a federal check.
Title: Re: "Green Card" Update
Post by: Escaped Lunatic on April 01, 2015, 01:10:35 AM
Thought I'd get several sets made so I don't have to do it again later if I need more.

One additional bit of info.  The Application Form appears to be the same throughout China, but my wife found an instruction sheet online from another city.  There were differences in the document requirements.  The other city wanted banking records.


Aaand, this being my 4th wedding anniversary, it's 366 days (2016 is a leap year) until I file my greencard application.

Title: Re: "Green Card" Update
Post by: BrandeX on April 01, 2015, 03:16:23 AM
Good luck and congrats. My 7th anniversary is tomorrow, and I still think the "green card" thing is looking like an impossibility for me.
Title: Re: "Green Card" Update
Post by: Escaped Lunatic on April 05, 2015, 01:37:35 AM
Why would it be impossible?  The only major disqualifiers I know of are dread diseases and not being in country enough each year.
Title: Re: "Green Card" Update
Post by: Noodles on April 07, 2015, 12:08:57 AM
Married 7 years, but i don't pay taxes here so that disqualifies me.  ananananan
Title: Re: "Green Card" Update
Post by: BrandeX on April 07, 2015, 03:47:41 AM
Same here. What then, I wonder, of village men hwom import wives from Vietnam and so on that never have income outside the home. Are they too permanently ineligible for "green cards"? In the states at least, random tourists get 10 year visas to China now. Meanwhile, us spouses of citizens need to pay and renew ours every two years still.
Title: Re: "Green Card" Update
Post by: Escaped Lunatic on March 24, 2016, 04:43:48 AM
Inquired about existing docs we had while turning in res permit.  Found a few things that needed changing and a whole new item (thankfully simple) that wasn't on the checklist.  Last  docs in need of it are undergoing translations and notarizations.  Just have to finish one piece of paper and fill in the form.

T Minus 8 days and counting.  Nothing can go wrong, go wrong, go wrong . . .  aqaqaqaqaq
Title: Re: "Green Card" Update
Post by: English Gent on March 24, 2016, 09:26:18 AM
im a spouse and need to renew every year, but it only costs 400rmb. after this year it will be about 5 years, so ill go for the d visa (that was). although i dont have any tax records.....
Title: Re: "Green Card" Update
Post by: Escaped Lunatic on March 24, 2016, 11:50:57 PM
I got tax and pay records and had those notarized.  When questioning the guy who accepts the applications last week, he said that instead, I needed a bank account (in my name and/or wife's name) with over 100,000 RMB to be frozen for an extended period (6+ months) along with a notarized statement that the money was available to support me.

Still planning to bring the tax and pay records in case the change their minds.

Considering the instructions vary from city to city (along with an interpretation of instructions manual that the guy checked), it's best to ask your local bureau of foreigner leashing to see what their exact requirements are.

7 days to go.
Title: Re: "Green Card" Update
Post by: BrandeX on March 28, 2016, 07:40:38 AM
I got tax and pay records and had those notarized.  When questioning the guy who accepts the applications last week, he said that instead, I needed a bank account (in my name and/or wife's name) with over 100,000 RMB to be frozen for an extended period (6+ months) along with a notarized statement that the money was available to support me.

Still planning to bring the tax and pay records in case the change their minds.

Considering the instructions vary from city to city (along with an interpretation of instructions manual that the guy checked), it's best to ask your local bureau of foreigner leashing to see what their exact requirements are.

7 days to go.

That sounds better to me. I'd rather prove that I have money as opposed to where and how I got it...
Title: Re: "Green Card" Update
Post by: English Gent on March 30, 2016, 06:49:36 AM
snap on the bank account with a shed-load of cash in it.
I have never needed to show cash with the annual visa but to take it with you 'just in case', would be a good idea.
Title: Re: "Green Card" Update
Post by: Escaped Lunatic on April 01, 2016, 06:33:11 AM
Been waiting for this day for a long time.  Today is it.  April Fools Day, 2016.  My 5th wedding anniversary.  To celebrate, I'm about to go apply for my Chinese Green Card.  Unless someone here is holding something back, I believe I'm about to boldly go apply for that which no Saloon dweller has ever gone and applied before. ababababab

Nothing can go wrong, go wrong, go wrong . . .   aqaqaqaqaq

Then again, even if they accept the application, it will probably take anywhere from 3-8 months for the answer to come back.  amamamamam

Hmmmnnn . . .  Maybe I should change out of my pajamas before leaving. ahahahahah
Title: Re: "Green Card" Update
Post by: rattie on April 01, 2016, 11:56:26 AM
Nooooooooo aoaoaoaoao

Keep the pyjamas on, have you got scuffy back slippers to so you drag your feet through the station/office?

Best of luck to you as you fly into the wide blue yonder.
R and K
p.s. how's puss today?
Title: Re: "Green Card" Update
Post by: Escaped Lunatic on April 01, 2016, 01:26:51 PM
It took forever to get 2 copies of everything (well, almost everything kkkkkkkkkk) via the printer that's begging to be replaced.  Somehow, my lovely wife's copy of our marriage certificate was missing. kkkkkkkkkk  Time was running out, so we decided to wing it with only mine.  The Didi driver decided to hide about 150 meters away from where he was carefully directed to wait for us.  Thought my wife was going to beat him, but she decided that getting to our destination was more important than making the driver regret disappointing her. ahahahahah  Finally got down to the Bureau of Foreigner Containment a little after 4. 

The usual guy who gets stuck with my paperwork (and knows about greencards) was out this week.  Instead, got a new guy.  He spoke English fairly well and had one other thing in common with me.  It was the first green card application for both of us, so he got to join me in seeking out and exploring strange new paperwork.

While hunting through the originals of everything to compare to the copies, the other marriage certificate dropped out out one of the other document booklets.  One small crisis averted. agagagagag

Finally got original compared to copies and everything in the right order.  He promised to call if anything was missing.  We made it all the way to the bus stop in front of the building before the phone rang.  For some reason, even though they already had a copy of my last entry stamp in my res permit application from 2 weeks before, they needed a new one, plus copies of all of my res permits (ALL issued from the same desk that took the application.  Oh, and they needed all of this in duplicate and the office was closing in less than 10 minutes. aqaqaqaqaq

We ran to a copy shop across the street.  Made 2 copies of Z-visa from 2010, every res permit since then (up to the one issued last week), and my last entry stamp.  Ran back across the street, and made it in just before they locked the doors.

I'm sure there's another call or two for copies or other things in my near future, but for the moment, it's mission accomplished.  I've got a receipt for submitting my Chinese green card application on my 5th wedding anniversary.
btbtbtbtbt agagagagag :candyraver: agagagagag btbtbtbtbt


And in furry news, Stripy Emperor finally kept a meal down today and is looking better.  Will get to see him tomorrow morning before heading off to HK and then the US for a few days.  My lovely wife promises to visit him every day while I'm gone.
Title: Re: "Green Card" Update
Post by: BrandeX on April 07, 2016, 08:04:41 AM
Oh, I also forgot to mention regarding the past years"renting a property" thing. This years spring festival 2016 in my wife's hometown, I was once again to told to "gtfo, we told you to buy a house, we don't care what people in other provinces are doing" - or something to that effect.
Title: Re: "Green Card" Update
Post by: Escaped Lunatic on April 07, 2016, 01:01:32 PM
If I left finances up to my in-laws, I'd have a huge auto loan on an insanely expensive SUV.  I'm not willing to go into debt to be a proxy for automotive face.  Instead, I'm hoping to keep saving up and have cash available when the real estate market gets a reality check.
Title: Re: "Green Card" Update
Post by: El Macho on April 16, 2016, 05:25:39 AM
Looking forward to hearing how this process goes for you – and looking forward to seeing a photo of your Chinese ID card when you get one! :)
Title: Re: "Green Card" Update
Post by: Escaped Lunatic on April 21, 2016, 12:12:28 AM
So far, no new calls for more paperwork.  No idea if that's good or bad news.  Guess I have to wait 4-12 months now. aqaqaqaqaq
Title: Re: "Green Card" Update
Post by: AMonk on April 21, 2016, 10:23:18 AM
...  Guess I have to wait 4-12 months now. aqaqaqaqaq


.. Babies take 9 months to make their appearance bjbjbjbjbj
Title: Re: "Green Card" Update
Post by: Escaped Lunatic on May 30, 2016, 03:55:05 AM
On Friday, the Bureau of Naughty Foreigner Containment called.  Although many months may still lie ahead, evidently, my application cleared enough local hurdles for them to collect the application fee. agagagagag (I never thought I'd be happy to pay a fee. ahahahahah)  Tried to get their in time to collect the papers and pay it, but the bank across the street had moved elsewhere (for some reason, this fee had to be paid at a bank instead of using a credit card at a machine inside the building mmmmmmmmmm) and by the time we found another bank, they were shutting down for the day.

My lovely wife just paid at the bank next to the village and will take the receipt back downtown this afternoon.
Title: Re: "Green Card" Update
Post by: Escaped Lunatic on June 14, 2016, 02:14:46 AM
Drat.  Thought my paperwork had made it to GZ, but its still in DG.  Now they want my CV.
Title: Re: "Green Card" Update
Post by: El Macho on June 15, 2016, 02:34:04 AM
I'm surprised they didn't want the CV before – take it as a good sign!
Title: Re: "Green Card" Update
Post by: Escaped Lunatic on June 17, 2016, 12:43:52 AM
Yeah, as long as they are asking for more info, that means they haven't found a reason to reject me.

I am wondering why the various "add ons" weren't all asked for upfront.  Maybe they don't want to have to dig through as much for people who are going to be rejected quickly.

Just to make this extra fun, they want all the jobs I've had since I was 18.  Maybe I'll spare them the part about mowing the neighbor's lawn. ahahahahah
Title: Re: "Green Card" Update
Post by: Calach Pfeffer on June 19, 2016, 05:09:02 AM
Not to be a wet blanket, but...

For some foreigners, 'green cards' are a disappointment (http://www.chinadaily.com.cn/china/2016-01/26/content_23243659.htm)

The permanent residency permits, which China began issuing in 2004, are among the most difficult to obtain in the world due to the high requirements involved.

According to the Ministry of Public Security, more than 7,300 foreigners had obtained green cards by 2013, but more than 600,000 foreigners live in China.

In June, the Ministry of Public Security eased the requirements and streamlined procedures for foreign applicants who served in some government-affiliated institutes and scientific and research centers.
Title: Re: "Green Card" Update
Post by: Escaped Lunatic on June 20, 2016, 02:30:16 AM
First, I need to get it.  Then I can figure out if it's adequate for buying train tickets or not. ahahahahah
Title: Re: "Green Card" Update
Post by: BrandeX on June 20, 2016, 04:26:34 AM
First, I need to get it.  Then I can figure out if it's adequate for buying train tickets or not. ahahahahah
The article says it's not.
Title: Re: "Green Card" Update
Post by: Escaped Lunatic on June 20, 2016, 11:35:09 PM
That could have been from one or two greencard holders at one or two train stations.  As we know, rules in China take a while to get spread around and are not always evenly enforced.

I'm not too worried.  Passport free access to train tickets isn't even on my list of reasons for wanting a green card.
Title: Re: "Green Card" Update
Post by: dongdong on June 21, 2016, 10:29:09 AM
Just wondering if anyone noticed the announcement from February this year, it basically said that the requirements for green card will be further relaxed and that the benefits of having one will be expanded and more clearly defined. Here's a link from china daily: http://europe.chinadaily.com.cn/epaper/2016-02/26/content_23650998.htm (http://europe.chinadaily.com.cn/epaper/2016-02/26/content_23650998.htm)

Hope it doesn't take too long to get fully implemented...
Title: Re: "Green Card" Update
Post by: Calach Pfeffer on June 21, 2016, 11:47:33 AM
Just wondering if anyone noticed the announcement from February this year, it basically said that the requirements for green card will be further relaxed and that the benefits of having one will be expanded and more clearly defined. Here's a link from china daily: http://europe.chinadaily.com.cn/epaper/2016-02/26/content_23650998.htm (http://europe.chinadaily.com.cn/epaper/2016-02/26/content_23650998.htm)

I don't want to keep on being a wet blanket, but I didn't get past the first sentence:

Chinese permanent residence, used to attract top foreign experts...

I don't know what permanent residency is supposed to be anywhere, but as a pay-off for being an expert... they're just taking the piss, right? They will certainly reserve the right to decide who wins this prize and therefore this prize is not determined by the topness of your expertise. It stinks of being not about residency at all. It looks a lot more like setting up a needle and telling people they can ride their camels through the eye if they like.
Title: Re: "Green Card" Update
Post by: Escaped Lunatic on June 22, 2016, 02:01:42 AM
I'm coming in under the "survived 5 years of wedded bruises bliss" option, so the expert part doesn't apply to me.  That's a whole different set of qualifications.

I don't know why anyone would be surprised that rules for those who have a green card aren't universally enforced.  FT rules are much better defined and established, but enforcement varies from province to province, city to city, and school to school.  If some railway ticket offices missed the memo about green cards, it's not a big deal (unless you're a greencard holder who left your passport at home).

As the number of greencard holders increases, word of whatever amazing powers the cards grant will eventually circulate to most places.  In the meantime, I'll be happy to get a greencard to save myself the time and effort of my annual "visit multiple police stations for a month" residence permit renewals while getting prepared to see about turning my green card into a red passport.
Title: Re: "Green Card" Update
Post by: dongdong on June 28, 2016, 09:12:20 AM
It looks a lot more like setting up a needle and telling people they can ride their camels through the eye if they like.

True (and quite applicable to a lot of things), it's just that if green card does become reasonably available/attainable it would make life so much easier, so whenever I see an article or news that promises development in that area I do get my hopes up.

After working for the same company for 5 years, I want to make a change and if possible, take a break. But if I quit then my work visa will turn into a non renewable 1 month tourist visa and if I want to work in China again I'll have to go through the whole work visa/permit process all over again. I interviewed with one potential employer for a translation position last Friday and they wanted me for the role. But later they emailed and said they are not able to sponsor work visa... It's a bit frustrating, my weekend involved indulging in beer and ice cream and a renewed job search.
Title: Re: "Green Card" Update
Post by: Escaped Lunatic on June 29, 2016, 12:33:40 AM
If an employer can't sponsor a work visa, that means the employer can't legally hire you.  If you get caught, you'll be the one paying big fines and getting kicked out for breaking the law.  The good news is that if you look around, there are places that can provide legal employment.  If you can time the transition between jobs right, you may be able to get a month or two off in between if you want a break.


And, back to topic - my wife was busy, so getting my short-form CV translated took a little longer than planned, but it's been turned in.  Now, hopefully, my application can move up to the provincial level.



Title: Re: "Green Card" Update
Post by: Escaped Lunatic on September 19, 2016, 02:49:45 AM
Someone at some level in Green Card Processing Land just called to double-check on my citizenship history.  The drawback of being an army brat born in Germany is that some people keep wondering if I hold or once held German citizenship.  Even my father thought I was qualified for dual citizenship.

I've checked the German rules extremely carefully.  Two American parents who were not intending to be permanent residents of Germany means that Germany has no claim on me and I have no claim on Germany.  Plus, I believe the US base I was born inside of technically qualifies as American territory, so I'm probably even legally eligible to run for president.

Hopefully, once everyone looking at my application is properly reassured, I'll be getting my greencard.
Title: Re: "Green Card" Update
Post by: BrandeX on January 22, 2017, 04:49:59 AM
They certainly aren't looking with any expedience.
Title: Re: "Green Card" Update
Post by: Escaped Lunatic on January 23, 2017, 02:12:19 AM
I was getting a little worried, so sent my lovely wife down to the Bureau of Naughty Foreigner Containment to check up on things last week.

Direct communications between local, provincial, and national levels appear to be rare.  The application moved up from Dongguan to the provincial level.  Since there's evidently no simple way for the local bureau to know what's going on, this means my application may or may not have moved up to national level yet.

It also looks like that 6-9 month initial estimate was a bit optimistic.  Now they seem to think 1 year is closer to the minimum.  They told her that if we'd heard nothing back after the application was 18 months old to let them know and they'd send an inquiry.

I'm all in favor if them checking everything very closely, but really wish there was some method to track things.
Title: Re: "Green Card" Update
Post by: El Macho on January 28, 2017, 04:57:42 PM
Fingers crossed for you! The waiting is the hardest part.
Title: Re: "Green Card" Update
Post by: Escaped Lunatic on March 21, 2017, 10:13:35 AM
Just applied for my new res permit today.  They had a different guy at the desk.  The moment he saw my Chinese name, he knew I was already a green card applicant.  Unfortunately, the only other info he had was "the application is in Beijing."  I hope he's right.  It would be sad if it is still sitting somewhere in Guangdong.

Kermit said "It's not easy being green."  I think turning green is a bit harder. ahahahahah
Title: Re: "Green Card" Update
Post by: Escaped Lunatic on March 21, 2017, 10:27:44 AM
Oh, and I forgot one little thing I learned a few weeks ago.

According to the census, Nationality Type 58 - foreigner becoming Chinese has has a considerable increase between the 2000 census and the 2010 census.  I'm assuming most Chinese descedants coming in would be Han (and some one of the 55 minority groups and maybe even a few type 57's - other Chinese minorities).  If I'm correct, citizenship for foreigners not of Chinese descent is less impossible than is usually assumed.
Title: Re: "Green Card" Update
Post by: El Macho on July 31, 2017, 02:57:45 AM
Regarding your last post, tonight my wife and I were talking about a friend who will be moving back to the US after 20 years in China. Part of why he's leaving China is not seeing much of a future there (he's especially pissed about the points-based rating of Foreign Experts). Eight or nine years ago my friend's school had offered to recommend him for a green card, but he refused because there wasn't a clear path to citizenship…it was just a 10 year RP. My wife observed that this is no longer the case – in her hometown's media they'd recently reported on eleven "foreigners" who had become naturalized Chinese citizens.

Times are changing :)

Hope to hear a good news update from you soon, EL.
Title: Re: "Green Card" Update
Post by: Escaped Lunatic on July 31, 2017, 05:36:50 AM
2 months and a day, and I'll be able to ask the local PSB to send an inquiry up the food chain.

My local PSB still says a green card is possible (if I keep waiting), but love to throw around "impossible" when the issue of citizenship is raised.  Sometimes all it takes is one or two verifiable counter-examples to break past a brick wall like that.

Can you please PM me any and all links about any foreigners who successfully got citizenship?  (I wouldn't even mind items about others who got greencards - if I eventually have to apply a second time, maybe they know something I missed.)
Title: Re: "Green Card" Update
Post by: El Macho on August 02, 2017, 04:47:06 PM
I've put in a request with my wife to find the article(s) again and will pass them along :)
Title: Re: "Green Card" Update
Post by: Escaped Lunatic on August 03, 2017, 08:56:10 AM
Thanks.  I'm trying to gather up everything I can about anyone who was successfully naturalized.
Title: Re: "Green Card" Update
Post by: Escaped Lunatic on August 06, 2017, 02:33:07 AM
The bad news is that El Macho found out that those were green cards, not citizenships.

The good news is that I may get lucky enough to be able to trace some of them.  I'm amazed at how many articles I've seen about "what it takes to get a green card" which don't cite a single case.  I've even seen some where the author admits not having direct knowledge of a single case.  If I need to re-apply, I'll want to ask advice from some who made it.  When I succeed (hopefully on the first try), I'd at least like someone to compare notes with when I write my own blog piece about it.

I am finding some hints of non-Chinese ancestry citizenships being acquired, but these are much rarer than greencards and I haven't found any specifics, yet.  From what I can tell, the total number may be in the 900 range.  That's not a lot, but if it's accurate, I can't believe there's not one news story or blog post which gives details about who, when, and how.
Title: Re: "Green Card" Update
Post by: Nolefan on August 06, 2017, 04:13:01 AM
The bad news is that El Macho found out that those were green cards, not citizenships.

The good news is that I may get lucky enough to be able to trace some of them.  I'm amazed at how many articles I've seen about "what it takes to get a green card" which don't cite a single case.  I've even seen some where the author admits not having direct knowledge of a single case.  If I need to re-apply, I'll want to ask advice from some who made it.  When I succeed (hopefully on the first try), I'd at least like someone to compare notes with when I write my own blog piece about it.

I am finding some hints of non-Chinese ancestry citizenships being acquired, but these are much rarer than greencards and I haven't found any specifics, yet.  From what I can tell, the total number may be in the 900 range.  That's not a lot, but if it's accurate, I can't believe there's not one news story or blog post which gives details about who, when, and how.

I know a few people that do have one but they're not the type to post or blog about it. In each case, it's been a different procedure and length of time. The only clear point is that it's been easier to do in Shanghai than elsewhere. It's the city that's issued the most so far.
Title: Re: "Green Card" Update
Post by: Escaped Lunatic on August 07, 2017, 04:51:36 AM
Please let me know if any of them (especially any who got a green card for 5 years of marriage) would agree to answer a few questions.  I'll be happy to keep their identities confidential if they like.
Title: Re: "Green Card" Update
Post by: Escaped Lunatic on August 24, 2017, 03:06:13 AM
"I am your father's brother's nephew's cousin's former roommate."

"So what does that make us?"

"Absolutely nothing, unless we're in China."

Since I'm in China, it turns out that one of my wife's former high school classmates had a college classmate who knows someone who has a friend who has a cousin who met someone who has some familiarity about what's happening with greencard applications.

My application took about 6 months to make it to the national level, which has a backlog of applications to be rechecked and to get all the correct approvals in the correct order.  The reason the time I was told this would take expanded each time I asked at the local level is that the number of applications has been going up.  Supposedly, my application is currently about 6 months until it gets processed.  At that point, they may want to recheck a few things to make sure I'm still qualified, such as verifying I survived 2 more years of marriage.

There is some good news in this.  Supposedly, the bulk of the application denials happen at the local and provincial level.  If this is correct, then my application has a reasonably good chance of passing.
Title: Re: "Green Card" Update
Post by: cruisemonkey on August 24, 2017, 09:55:56 PM
If this is correct, then my application has a reasonably good chance of passing.

And, at the length of time it takes to process an application, there's a reasonably good chance the applicant will pass... on.  ahahahahah
Title: Re: "Green Card" Update
Post by: Escaped Lunatic on August 25, 2017, 01:09:40 AM
If this is correct, then my application has a reasonably good chance of passing.

And, at the length of time it takes to process an application, there's a reasonably good chance the applicant will pass... on.  ahahahahah


Verification that I'm still married and still breathing will probably be the final step. ahahahahah
Title: Re: "Green Card" Update
Post by: Escaped Lunatic on May 10, 2018, 06:32:00 AM
During my annual police dance where (village, town, and city) for residence permit renewal, I tried to make a further inquiry at the bureau of naughty foreigner control.  There were some new faces behind the counter, so I hoped they might have tripped over some new information.

I was told that the last (only?) green card via marriage in Dongguan was issued about 10 years ago. They seemed to believe that getting such a green card today would be impossible.  amamamamam

China now has recently fully integrated all the visa, greencard, and immigration functions into a centralized Immigration Bureau.  I personally don't see how that, in conjunction with reports of increasing numbers of green cards being issued nationwide can correlate to "impossible."

What's very frustrating is how many news articles on the subject give vague descriptions and also readily mix up the concepts of green card, honorary citizenship, and actual citizenship.  Getting useful facts isn't easy when those writing and editing the stories don't seem to know very much about the topics the stories are about.

It's been 2 years, 1 month, and 9 days since I applied.  I'm still hopefully awaiting news of success. btbtbtbtbt
Title: Re: "Green Card" Update
Post by: Escaped Lunatic on May 31, 2018, 12:13:08 PM
Important update is here: http://raoulschinasaloon.com/index.php?topic=10032.0