Raoul's China Saloon (V5.0) Beta
The Bar Room => The Bar (ON-TOPIC) => Topic started by: UncleScoobs on August 14, 2008, 09:00:50 AM
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I have a wee bit of a confusing situation, and Raoul's Saloon is the perfect place for it!
I taught at a School in Shenzhen from August 2006 to January 2007. I didn't have a Degree or any teaching experience, other than my genuine excitement at having the chance to try it out. I had a Z Visa issued (converted) from a Tourist Visa, as well as a Health Certificate and Residence Permit.
It was a one-year contract, but (and here's the twist) I was fired 6 months in. I didn't do anything wrong or get into any kind of trouble with the law, etc. A lot of other Teachers lost their jobs shortly after me (some with Degrees, too). My Z Visa was cancelled, so I went to Hong Kong and bought an F Visa, which was valid for 6 months. I didn't actually work during those 6 months; I rented an Apartment and just 'hid away'.
So my Passport goes like this:
- L Visa (Expired)
- Z Visa (Cancelled)
- F Visa (Expired)
Is it just me being paranoid, or does that look a little bit suspicious? I'm planning on going back to China before or just after Christmas (depending on funds and jobs) and I'd hate for them to start digging into everything with questions.
Another thing... I still have no Degree. I hate to be 'that guy' but, at the same time, I know I'm not an asshole and I know I am good at what I do. Maybe still a little inexperienced, but I was getting there before it all crashed, and burst into flames. llllllllll
That, and the current Visa problems that exist at the moment, are the biggest downer of it all right now. Is it hopeless even trying, in my situation? I'd hate for that to be the case...
I noticed a lot of Job Ads put emphasis on a preference towards actual experience, which provides some relief, but does this overrule the need for a Degree? I'm guessing not. 'Cause how would I get previous experience in China, without one?
What to do? What to think? How much Baijiu to drink? jjjjjjjjjj
Fanks. amamamamam
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You don't need a degree to teach in China. You will find A teaching job without a degree. You might not get the best jobs or the best wages, but well, you didn't do the work so that's your fault no one else's. I don't have a degree and managed to get a job in China. Your experience will be valuable though.
As for your immigration record I don't think it should be an issue. You got an F after your Z so I don't see why there should be a problem.
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You don't need a degree to teach in China. You will find A teaching job without a degree. You might not get the best jobs or the best wages, but well, you didn't do the work so that's your fault no one else's. I don't have a degree and managed to get a job in China. Your experience will be valuable though.
As for your immigration record I don't think it should be an issue. You got an F after your Z so I don't see why there should be a problem.
I know I can find a job without a Degree, but the Z Visa requirements specifically mention the need for one. Are you saying this is not always the case? If so, do you know of the exact exceptions which allows someone without a Degree to obtain a Z Visa? As I said above, I have a faint hope that experience would be sufficient enough.
Regarding the Visa, I'm just concerned that my year-long Z Visa has a big 'Cancelled' stamp on it, followed by me obtaining an F Visa in Hong Kong. Maybe it's nothing, you're probably right. bibibibibi
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it's believed that October 17th is when the real long term visa rules will come out, right now no one really knows what it will be like, or how it will be.
Presently it's Easy to get a 30 day L visa extension In China at many big city PSB offices, in HongKong Easy to get the 90 day double 30day entry L or F visa through agents.
Difficult to get a long term L or F visa Anywhere...
The Z visa is possible & not difficult for those providing All required paperwork & they Do require every document asked for, including degrees.
Unless you're from one of the 31 countries that are blacklisted, (that list is in one of the visa threads).
Good chance you'll be able to find a school that will hire you for the 2009 spring term without a degree, or pick up part time work at training centers But...
it will be a school that can't get a degreed body to work for them for many possible reasons, most not being good.
Most likely, the bigger cities will be difficult to get a teaching job that provides Z visa / residence permit without a degree for now on, but this is China...
no worry about past visas, the canceled one was only That visa, not your passport, as long as the Last visa you got was good you'll be able to get an L or F visa easy. `Probably.
Worry about finding a decent school that will hire you And be able to get your residence permit without a real degree.
Best for you to wait till October to know for sure what the new rules are...
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Yeh, I guess nobody really knows right now. I was hoping to find a job in Chongqing, but I think that pretty much qualifies as a 'Big City'. llllllllll
I was actually more interested in teaching at a Public Middle/High School. I taught ages 6-12 before, but had a few classes with older students which I enjoyed much more. I know they generally pay less than a private School, but I prefer the Pro's and Con's of going public. ;D
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Blacklisted countries that have to go home and get a visa, can't be renewed in China nor HK. Or so they say. I filched this from another website, not official source.
Afghanistan, Tunisia, Algeria, Bangladesh ,Congo, Egypt, Gambia, Ghana, Guinea, India, Indonesia, Iran, Iraq, Mali, Libya, South Africa, Morocco, Kazakhstan, Kirghistan, Malaysia, Philippines, Uzbekistan, Tajikistan, Nepal, Pakistan, Nigeria, Sri Lanka, Sudan, Turkey, Mauritania, Saudi Arabia, Sierra Leone, Syria. Kosovo passport holders have also reported problems.
Is this the same list?
On the official govt website some years ago I saw that 2 years experience was equivalent to a degree, but that was long ago, 3 years at least.
See, Nobody did know.
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I'm from the UK, so it's all good from that perspective. :)
On the official govt website some years ago I saw that 2 years experience was equivalent to a degree, but that was long ago, 3 years at least.
That's interesting, but I'd still need to get more experience, which leaves me back at square one. haha.
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I know that what happens at a language mill that I unhappily worked for. I have a degree, but I know that most of their FT's did not. They would enter on an L visa, the school would mint a new, fresh-smelling diploma for them, and off everything would go to the authorities. At the time, the visa change could be done locally, so the FT's may not have even known that's how they "got away without a degree." I have to assume this practice is still in use, at least in some places.
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If you have the letter of invite from the school when you apply for your visa, then you can apply for the Z visa. Degree status doesn't matter because you have the job offer.
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UncleScoobs,if you are really concerned about having no degree or certificate, you can do a TEFL course online. It will cost you 200-300USD (depending on how many hours you choose to study). It is a legitimate course and will take you only 1 or 2 weeks especially if you have already had a teaching experience. I know a few folks who have done it.
http://www.i-to-i.com/tefl/online-tefl/
You get your REAL certificate posted to you.
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You can also do a TEFL course in Beijing. I did and had enjoyed doing it.
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But, a TEFL certificate/diploma is not a University diploma and the current rules require a University diploma to get a Z visa/Foreign Expert Cert.
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I'll look into that Cheekygal, thanks. :)
I can probably do it for much less at home.
Actually, no, I just remembered I live in the UK and everything is expensive. :( ...
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But the exchange rate is in your favour. US$200 = 100 quid
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Since no one seems to know how to spot them, you could just run off a transcript and diploma of your choice and go for it. bibibibibi
But it would be immoral. But since degrees aren't important, that won't matter. llllllllll
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Meister N, I believe (in the UK at least) one can simply call the University in question, and see if the details of the Certificate match the details on their Database. Maybe it's not that simple, but I'm sure I've read it somewhere before. Although, I can imagine they might bring up the whole 'Data Protection Act' thing.
Regardless, although I'd prefer to have a Degree attached to my name, I know that exceptions can be made, which are entirely legal. At my previous job, I knew they used a fake Degree for me and it did make me feel a little uncomfortable. Thus, I don't think I'd be happy going the whole way and faking it all myself.
That reasoning probably doesn't make my actions any less immoral, but I think it's the safer attitude to have. :)
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Actually, specifically in regards to the UK, (since I actually specifically researched the UK in this regard) you generally need a written application (faxed is OK) on letterhead of a registered organization or business, in order to ask for verification. They check the authenticity of the organization, too, or so they say.
I bet they don't.
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How do they know you didn't fake the letterhead, in process of seeking a faked diploma?
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I thought Mr N was asking for confirmation of award and the institute in question requires a letterhead.
But - that too can be faked. So all we need to do is create a letterhead for a school/uni here, and send it off with the request.
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Wo.. I guess cuz the olympics is now over I will be looking to return to Beijing.. oops.
Back in June I was told (by the PSB Officials)that they wouldn't be extending my F visa in country, so I would have to return to Canada and then get a new F visa. Sounded pretty simple when I was in Beijing. When I arrived at the China Consulate in Toronto they said I would need to have this visa notification form filled out by the Business Bureau in Beijing, if I wanted anything longer than a 30 day F visa.
My wife was/is still in Beijing and is Chinese. She went to the Business Bureau with the paperwork and was denied, she was advised to use the web site to apply. When she went to the web site she was only allowed her to choose a 30 day visa, which she did and after waiting 10 days was again rejected. The Chinese Consulate in Toronto tells me I can get a 30 day without this form. Now the Para Olympics will be over in about 25 days. IS there any word about confirmation of any details regarding visas? Has anyone recently received an F visa out of Honk KOng or Macao? Please advise?
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F visa's are not being issued anywhere right now as far as I know. It will likely be another 6 weeks before they start issuing them.
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July 30th in HK I got a visa.
I had the choice of an L or a F visa... I chose the L.
I have a good friend that chose & received the F on July 29th.
both visas offered & approved overnight in HK through a visa / travel agent were the 90 day double 30 day entry kind.
we both are American.
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Yes, if you want a confusing situation, the Saloon is a great place to find one. agagagagag
This question set is confusing enough anyway...as seen, actual results are spotty, and NO ONE, including most of the authorities, really knows what's happening.
I DO know that degree status doesn't apply for the Z Visa, but it definitely DOES when it comes to getting a work permit/foreign expert certificate...and this in turn is the necessary prerequisite for the residence permit. YOU CAN'T LEGALLY LIVE AND WORK IN CHINA ON JUST A VISA.
Experience has shown that sometimes, it doesn't have to be a 4-year degree. Sometimes other certifications etc. will work. This can include anything from an unrelated work certification to a TEFL certificate, to a Hallmark "World's Greatest Bowler" certificate- which is often about as meaningful and relevant as a TEFL certificate anyway.
Your best source of info here is your prospective employers. Tell them which shiny paper you have, if any, and they should be able to determine whether they can work with it or not.
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Well, I don't have a 4-year degree, but I do hold Qualifications in two 1-year courses. I also have 6 months experience. I think it's more than enough to teach at a Public Middle/High School (which is what I want), but not everyone seems to view it like that.
Can this still be used by the FAO, to apply for a Residence Permit? It seems to me that many rules are often overlooked (required age, experience, length of stay, etc), and this would mean a lot of people (inc. those with Degree's) fail to meet the requirements. Right?
So what the hell am I worrying about? If they're willing to hire non-native speakers, then they're willing to put up a little 'fight' to secure a native speaker. Degree or not, and especially with experience.
And I know it's racist, but I'm as white as any Chinese ren could ever wish for. If that's how the system works, it's going on my CV. ahahahahah
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You have to really ask the FAO on that matter - it depends on the school's capabilities.