Raoul's China Saloon (V4.0 Beta)

The Bar Room => The Legalities Board: Visas, Permits, Taxes, and More! (ON-TOPIC) => Topic started by: Raoul F. Duke on April 25, 2008, 12:17:21 PM

Title: A Hard Rain's Gonna Fall... (THE VISA NIGHTMARE!)
Post by: Raoul F. Duke on April 25, 2008, 12:17:21 PM
This is just coming up as a general notice to readers that the visa situation in China is rapidly descending into madness. We are experiencing a massive crackdown on visas in the months leading up to the Olympics.

The word I have now is that tourist (L) visas are not being granted for a period of more than 30 days. To be here on a tourist visa, you now have to leave the country every month to go buy a new visa. A VERY expensive proposition for most people...for many the cost of a trip to Hong Kong and the cost of the visa will eat all or most of their monthly salary.

New business (F) visas simply can't be had. Chinese Consulates are not willing or able to issue them.

Residence permits can still be gotten from companies licensed to hire foreign workers, but the schools are getting pretty tight-fisted with them. A great many schools obtain residence permits, without our knowledge, through methods that are, uh, well,...not entirely on the up-and-up. Many places, when submitting documents to the police and the Labor Bureau, quietly substitute your contract for a phony one from another entity who has residence permit rights to sell. Police in many cities are taking closer looks at contracts and licenses, refusing permits, and prosecuting schools getting permits illegally. A lot of schools that issued residence permits before are now suddenly finding themselves unable to do it again. I've just been through one of these myself.

Conversion of visa types (such as an L to an F or residence permit) seems to be at a standstill.

Personally, I seem to be squeaking through this one by virtue of being married to a Chinese national; I am getting a Spouse visa. Even that is proving a challenge. I'm EXTREMELY irked that I have to use this route, as those who know my charming wife can attest, but it's the only way I can stay in the country right now.

I'm already seeing many friends who have no choice but to leave the country. I fear that most of this wave is yet to come.

If this trend goes as foreseen, an awful lot of expats are going to be rolling up their packs and shipping out soon. This will leave a lot of schools high and dry; I expect that they will become pretty desperate for foreign teachers and turn to all sorts of means to try and lure people over here.

I've always said it, but now it seems truer than ever: Don't take a job in China that will not firmly promise you a residence permit. If possible, have the Z Visa in your passport before you get on the plane; the process of converting tourist visas has gone from iffy to impossible. Foreigners living and working here on anything short of a residence permit are even more vulnerable than usual.

If you're already here and want to renew with your school, a private meeting to make damn sure they can come through when crunch time comes around might be a good idea.

Be careful out there. More on this situation as it develops...
Title: Re: A Hard Rain's Gonna Fall...
Post by: kcanuck on April 25, 2008, 01:24:25 PM
Our school sent a letter of invitation to my replacement this week.  He's been vacationing in Cambodia and went to the Chinese Embassy with all his papers (he has an MBA and four years teaching in China) and they said they were not issuing Z visas.  They told him to go to Hong Kong.
Title: Re: A Hard Rain's Gonna Fall...
Post by: ericthered on April 25, 2008, 01:44:41 PM
Eeek...those are not good news.
Title: Re: A Hard Rain's Gonna Fall...
Post by: dragonsaver on April 25, 2008, 01:53:10 PM
My current visa is good till Aug 31/08.  Last year they renewed my Z and residence permit before I flew home for holiday.  I wonder if they will have to renew me once I arrive back in China? (I fly back Aug 20).

I think I might ask the person in charge of getting visas next week.
Title: Re: A Hard Rain's Gonna Fall...
Post by: Noodles on April 25, 2008, 03:19:09 PM
Quote
I am getting a Spouse visa. Even that is proving a challenge

Are you talking about the elusive 'D' visa or is this the spouse 'L' i have heard about.
Title: Re: A Hard Rain's Gonna Fall...
Post by: Raoul F. Duke on April 25, 2008, 07:51:47 PM
I am honestly not sure yet. My charming wife is cooking all this up back in her home town, where grown men tremble and small children run in fear at the mention of her name. uuuuuuuuuu

My suspicion, though, is that this is a spouse L.
Title: Re: A Hard Rain's Gonna Fall...
Post by: Schnerby on April 25, 2008, 11:45:08 PM
So perhaps the song and dance routine I'm performing at the Chinese consulate is simply part of this process.

Super annoying!  asasasasas
Title: Re: A Hard Rain's Gonna Fall...
Post by: kcanuck on April 26, 2008, 12:03:30 AM
Schnerby, I recall reading that you are a journalist...you may have to dance a little harder to get in...good luck
Title: Re: A Hard Rain's Gonna Fall...
Post by: becster79 on April 26, 2008, 05:17:42 AM
Well, I'm supposed to be renewing my contract for another couple of years (just still fine tuning the salary!) and my RP is valid til 23 August- but I don't plan to fly back til at least the 25 (deliberatly AFTER that thing in Beijing). So I've warned my FAO he will need to renew before I leave. I also warned him of all this talk about visa probs. He doesn't seem at all fazed and that there won't be any probs. I know this school is licenced for teachers because VSO have been here. I just don't know how much time/ weeks to give my passport to him to get this done before I leave!

Still, will have another chat to him on Monday on the way to the dentist....which is a pain because every time I ask him about something I need he always complains he's so busy. I started talking to him about the contract 3 weeks ago and STILL don't know what's happening, pay rise etc!
Title: Re: A Hard Rain's Gonna Fall...
Post by: Con ate dog on April 26, 2008, 06:07:31 AM
Still awaiting my new passport, upon the receipt of which my school will get me a new residence permit.  Mind you, I have racked up a huge late fine...  me no sleep good.  amamamamam
Title: Re: A Hard Rain's Gonna Fall...
Post by: becster79 on April 26, 2008, 07:49:15 AM
Con, are you sure? Why are you getting a new passport? Renewal? If so, the other RP should still be valid...even if you threw it down the loo it would still be okay (and yes, I know a FT who did this...)
Title: Re: A Hard Rain's Gonna Fall...
Post by: MK on April 26, 2008, 11:43:15 AM
Here's a quick link to a Tapei Times article on the student thing:

http://www.taipeitimes.com/News/front/archives/2008/04/18/2003409598
Title: Re: A Hard Rain's Gonna Fall...
Post by: Raoul F. Duke on April 26, 2008, 12:37:25 PM
You have to be really careful here. Many school FAOs will cheerfully look you in the eye for months and say "no problem, no problem"...and then later when the rubber meets the road they suddenly shrug and say "Mei-you. Bu hao yi si." (Mandarin for "You up the creek without a paddle, big nose") I've had this happen to me a few times myself, and heard of it many more. And that was out in the good old days... llllllllll
Title: Re: A Hard Rain's Gonna Fall...
Post by: Raoul F. Duke on April 26, 2008, 01:45:26 PM
An addendum in the public interest- When dealing with school management on this matter, to make sure communications are crystal clear, allow me to suggest you learn to say, use, and love the following phrase in Chinese:

"Ni3 ru2 guo3 bu2 gei1 wo3 jv1 liu2 zheng4, wo3 zai4 lai2 yao4 la1 chu1 ni3 de fei4"
("If you don't give me a residence permit, I will come rip your lungs out.") asasasasas
Title: Re: A Hard Rain's Gonna Fall...
Post by: icebear on April 27, 2008, 02:34:50 AM
The no F thing is really screwing a lot of people over. The consultancy I work at has about a third of staff (6-8 workers) with F visas expiring between now and August 1. The Chinese co-owner has so far stated that they'll figure something out, but as time goes on it is increasingly visible that she is rattled and without clear recourse. She has been told that new F's will only be issued on direct invitation from the Ministry of Commerce. Given our line of work that is most likely possible, but I doubt they want blow that much guanxi in one go. aoaoaoaoao

In the event that those visas really can't be had it will mean dire consequences for the company. They are authorized to get Z's as well, but only a certain number - I think this is limited by the total value of foreign investment in the company.

Looks like I may be taking a holiday Aug-Sept. Pity, I already have one planned in July too. bfbfbfbfbf
Title: Re: A Hard Rain's Gonna Fall...
Post by: Pashley on April 27, 2008, 11:17:05 AM
New York Times coverage:
http://www.nytimes.com/2008/04/24/world/asia/24china.html?_r=1&ref=todayspaper&oref=slogin

Note that they also mention police cracking down on Beijing bars where drugs are sometimes found. One might want to avoid such places, or exercise more caution if you do go.

I wonder if they might crack down on prostitution and/or gambling as well.
Title: Re: A Hard Rain's Gonna Fall...
Post by: Raoul F. Duke on April 27, 2008, 11:27:02 AM
I have German friends here (strange but true) who work for Siemens, which has huge high-tech plants all over China, and THEY can't get F visas. Some of them are shipping out... amamamamam
Title: Re: A Hard Rain's Gonna Fall...
Post by: latefordinner on April 27, 2008, 12:05:47 PM
[quote/] That was reported, for Beijing, on the TEFL China list a week ot two back. Someone else posted a link to China Daily denying the rumour.
[/quote]

I learned long ago never to believe in rumours until someone in a position of authority starts to deny them. Then start to worry. When the denial hits the Daily, you're pretty sure there's an ounce of truth to the original rumour.
Title: Re: A Hard Rain's Gonna Fall...
Post by: Noodles on April 28, 2008, 05:25:20 AM
Quote
My suspicion, though, is that this is a spouse L.

Hey Raoul, can you keep us informed of how this pans out, i will try to look into this when i return as my visa will finish whilst i'm away and i really don't want to jump through a million hoops in HK every month.
Title: Re: A Hard Rain's Gonna Fall...
Post by: Raoul F. Duke on April 28, 2008, 04:11:55 PM
I'll do my best.
Little Hope has a bad cough at the moment, and her charming mother is currently convinced that SARS has started a new outbreak in her, and the poor child will rattle her last at any moment.

Uh...I'm not joking. aoaoaoaoao llllllllll

So, my stuff is all twisting in the wind for a while... alalalalal

like I may be taking a holiday Aug-Sept. Pity, I already have one planned in July too. bfbfbfbfbf
Good on ya, Icebear, but you bring up a good point: I suspect a lot of foreign heads will start rolling around June or July as the public school contracts come to an end. A lot of public schools and unis are very reluctant to extend contracts or visas through the summer season even in uh...normal  times, and the expedient of a short-term, F-visa job will likely not be as available as before.

It's always important, as a lot of people find out the hard way, but now it's absolutely vital that we remain mindful of our visa situations and plan way ahead to either get covered or get out... oooooooooo
Title: Re: A Hard Rain's Gonna Fall...
Post by: Pashley on April 28, 2008, 05:00:54 PM
I suspect a lot of foreign heads will start rolling around June or July as the public school contracts come to an end. A lot of public schools and unis are very reluctant to extend contracts or visas through the summer season even in uh...normal  times, and the expedient of a short-term, F-visa job will likely not be as available as before.

One might consider Korea. Pay is sigficantly higher than here and there are lots of summer school jobs there.
Title: Re: A Hard Rain's Gonna Fall...
Post by: Lotus Eater on April 28, 2008, 06:31:39 PM
Reading all of this I am thankful for a few things.

Otherwise it could be dodgy.
Title: Re: A Hard Rain's Gonna Fall...
Post by: Schnerby on April 28, 2008, 11:38:01 PM
I'm busy going through hoops, song and dance routines and many other possibly unnecessary tricks to get the consulate to get my visa going. Mind you im heading to Zhongguo in January but they said I should start the process now.

At first I thought they were mad. Now I realise it is feasible to waste 9 months getting a visa.  aoaoaoaoao

At least my employer in China is being good, organising their bit quickly when the consulate asks (which has been at least once a week so far).

Apparenty this country wants teachers to come! Coulda fooled me...  asasasasas
Title: Re: A Hard Rain's Gonna Fall...
Post by: decurso on April 29, 2008, 02:07:29 AM
New York Times coverage:
http://www.nytimes.com/2008/04/24/world/asia/24china.html?_r=1&ref=todayspaper&oref=slogin

Note that they also mention police cracking down on Beijing bars where drugs are sometimes found. One might want to avoid such places, or exercise more caution if you do go.


 Two weekends ago the police raided Pure Girl, a group of bars on Sanlitun Hou Jie notorious for drugs and fake booze. Most of the Africans I know are now avoiding Sanlitun like the plague. In a lot of parts of Beijing being black these days is enough to to get you beat up and arrested. About a month ago an African was beaten to death in the Wudaokou police station. Keep in mind most of the Africans in WDK are actually foreign students.

  Another visa issue has recently come to my attention. For a tourist visa you are now required to provide a hotel reservation. One of the FTs here has a friend who was coming to stay with him in June, but this new rule is messing up the works. I advised him to tell his friend to book a hotel and cancel the reservation when he gets his visa. Any thoughts on the wisdom of this situation.
Title: Re: A Hard Rain's Gonna Fall...
Post by: Jack Fancy on April 29, 2008, 03:42:36 AM
I haven't seen or heard about any problems with foreigners in Lanzhou yet...
Title: Re: A Hard Rain's Gonna Fall...
Post by: Lotus Eater on April 29, 2008, 04:07:33 AM
tell your friend to fax his residents permit to his friend in lieu of the hotel reservation.  That is what I am doing with my friend coming from Germany for  2weeks.  And we are forgetting to tell them that within 24 hours of him landing here we will be headed to Inner Mongolia to go trekking and camping.
Title: Re: A Hard Rain's Gonna Fall...
Post by: Raoul F. Duke on April 29, 2008, 07:02:12 AM
I'd still do the reservation switcheroo, though. I'm a firm believer in giving the po-lice whatever they specifically ask for if I possibly can. bdbdbdbdbd
This stuff varies from province to province, city to city, day to day, and even officer to officer. You really have to work with your specific current local situation on these things. llllllllll
Title: Re: A Hard Rain's Gonna Fall...
Post by: Calach Pfeffer on April 29, 2008, 09:13:23 AM
My sister's a travel agent with an Oz company.  She's pissed off.  She says as of recently there's a whole lot of extra hurdles for coming to tour China.  One in particular, she, as travel agent, has to provide a detailed itinerary accounting for where the tourist will be the entire time they're in China *before* a tourist visa will be issued.  As such, she's got people who'll (in theory) be departing before they have confirmed visas.


Anyone know if Z visa/Resident Permits are still multi-entry?  As in, if you're in China and working, and you want to step out for a breather, maybe go to Thailand or a trip to Oz, you can still get back in if your current Z is still... well, current?

Mine expires September 30.  If I sign up for another year, as I may, then because of summer holidays, the process of renewing it will, hooray, happen right around July.  Yay!
Title: Re: A Hard Rain's Gonna Fall...
Post by: adamsmith on April 29, 2008, 09:21:44 AM
This visa situation is getting to be a real problem for my Oz employer. We do all the testing for our foundation students with most of the testers coming up from Oz. The problem is they cannot get visas (F or L), they don't need the z because they are only here for a week or two. Now, I am in the unenviable position of being onsite with my Z (if they renew it before then) of maybe having to do all the testing in our partner schools. I hope they can find an alternative because I would really hate to have to say no but I will.
Title: Re: A Hard Rain's Gonna Fall...
Post by: dragonsaver on April 29, 2008, 09:31:57 AM
I think if the large corporations can't get their experts into the country for inspections, reviews and onsite work, they should shut the company down until they can get their people in.  Maybe if 20,000 workers found themselves unemployed for 2 or 3 months the govt might realize the problem.  MIGHT realize  bibibibibi
Title: Re: A Hard Rain's Gonna Fall...
Post by: Lotus Eater on April 29, 2008, 09:44:21 AM
Depends on how much money the Chinese partners would lose and how much guanxi those partners have in the system.
Title: Re: A Hard Rain's Gonna Fall...
Post by: latefordinner on April 29, 2008, 11:38:08 AM
DS:
I think if the large corporations can't get their experts into the country for inspections, reviews and onsite work, they should shut the company down until they can get their people in.
I really hate to advocate playing hardball when there are (usually) mutually beneficial means of compromise, but this is beginning to look more and more like the fall-back position of choice. Don't most JV contracts have a "force-majeure" clause? This is what it's for, don't be afraid to use it.
Title: Re: A Hard Rain's Gonna Fall...
Post by: Raoul F. Duke on April 29, 2008, 04:48:27 PM
Depends on how much money the Chinese partners would lose and how much guanxi those partners have in the system.
This is IMHO the best answer on this subthread so far. I think the reality is that no  country is going to be very eager to piss off our hosts here and the trillions in trade they'll generate; the stakes would have to be extremely high indeed before that happened.
Certain controversial large islands may well not be high enough stakes; we wanquerines most certainly will not be.
On the other side...the Chinese are if nothing else an extremely pragmatic people when they need to be. I think it's pretty safe to say that the foreign experts really needed to keep the wheels spinning will ultimately be allowed to find some means of getting here that won't trigger World War III.

And now, please step this way with me and we'll rejoin the thread, already in progress.

I think the visa changes will likely create some bizarre and, for some, potentially very ugly effects (and for others, quite lovely effects) in the schools. State schools- public schools and unis- will become premium jobs by virtue of their ability to legitimately issue residence permits. These places may start to enjoy a much greater ability to selectively shop for what they see as the most qualified teachers, and see a greatly increased level of control over the teachers they do hire. "Qualified" would probably increasingly include a willingness to play ball on some, well, uh, unique  practices in Chinese education such as selling grades or rampant exam cheating or never failing any student whose family paid the tuition in full. Overly annoying your State school employer, without the ability to say "f*ck it" and work on F or L visas, could become an express ticket out of the country.

At the same time, a lot of private schools, many of which already struggle to find enough foreign teachers to cover demand, could start finding themselves with classes that don't have a foreign face at their front. In such a case they could be fighting tooth-and-nail for the part-time hours of the State school teachers. Salaries for these gigs would go up...as would the conditions teachers could demand before accepting a job. I think even some of the older, well-established private schools could feel the squeeze, because I feel it may be possible that the necessary clout level of local partners able to wrangle residence permits for non-State schools has just risen a few notches.

Some "training centers" would have to fold up and bolt the doors.

Some teachers, unable to land a State school job, would have to pack up and go elsewhere.

Like, out of China. And I think there are probably a helluva lot of people teaching here that would not qualify as teachers in very many other countries. At least, not very many other countries any sane person would ever even consider going to.

I think upcoming athletic spectaculars may be making a very convenient cover for all sorts of things. I have to wonder if maybe the herd isn't being thinned to limit our cultural influence, curb excessive behavior (like mine agagagagag), and keep our numbers low enough to control. I have to wonder if the mainstream educational bureaucracy is moving to assert control over a larger cut of the market, away from all these capitalist upstarts.

Eventually, I think this wave will partially roll back as do many others. The idea of rigorous adherence to the law has never really taken hold in China, and after a while people here will start to "cooperate" again and make another boatload of money. But it will take time to get there.

But then, I haven't slept in over 40 hours. I could be wrong. agagagagag
Title: Re: A Hard Rain's Gonna Fall...
Post by: contemporarydog on April 29, 2008, 05:12:23 PM
 iiiiiiiiii iiiiiiiiii iiiiiiiiii iiiiiiiiii

(Re. 40 hours)  uuuuuuuuuu
Title: Re: A Hard Rain's Gonna Fall...
Post by: Raoul F. Duke on April 29, 2008, 05:41:14 PM
I wish. alalalalal
I have, well, a flatmate who's just naturally kinda there enough for all of us already. aoaoaoaoao
Title: Re: A Hard Rain's Gonna Fall...
Post by: James the Brit on April 29, 2008, 07:47:41 PM
I think quite a few schools in Beijing are going to fold over the summer, because of the visa situation. Especially the schools that dont hand out Z visas. My school is planning for a staff crisis. They are asking us all when our visas will expire and employing any teacher they can get their hands on.
Title: Re: A Hard Rain's Gonna Fall...
Post by: ericthered on April 29, 2008, 09:01:59 PM
So basically, Jefe, what you're saying is that this time next year things will be back to their normal, lazy, wonderfully corrupt self?
Title: Re: A Hard Rain's Gonna Fall...
Post by: Raoul F. Duke on April 29, 2008, 09:43:59 PM
Not at all.
I see no reason to assume that things will ever be quite the same again. They may loosen up some again, but as I said above, I think all this could be about much more than just the Olympics. I don't think the new framework will just drop away again when The Games are over.

Major change from here will likely take more than one year.
Title: Re: A Hard Rain's Gonna Fall...
Post by: non-dave on May 01, 2008, 09:11:01 AM
A few recent personal experiences to add...

My Dad just came over from Oz and had to have a itinerary for his trip before they would issue the visa. I sent a very general one to him (no addresses or reservations - just the names of the different cities we would be in) and it was fine. He got a 30 day L visa.

Upon arriving in Yolanda's hometown in the boonies of Heilongjiang we were visited by the local PSB. We were summoned to the police station and had to register ourselves. This is about my 10th visit there - the 3rd since moving to Dongguan - and this is the first time the police have shown any interest at all. We just had to register and talk our way out of a 1000RMB fine for being late (should have done it within 24 hours) - but it sure indicates that everyone is on high-alert at the moment.
Title: Re: A Hard Rain's Gonna Fall...
Post by: GwaiLower on May 06, 2008, 03:29:46 PM
My boss/ Coworker, our line builder is stuck in HK right now waiting on his temp Visa to get in to check our shoe samples and deal with some quality control issues, open new tanneries etc.  Hes been there for a few days already. Actually he's supposed to be getting it today but it IS a major headache for companies like ours.  So they are screwing up the visas that allow business guys like us in who have a much bigger effect on the cash flow into China.(No offense to anyone working for small potatoes o'er there.  HEll sometimes Im totally jealous of you all.  Id love to just drop the stress -and debt-mortgage - wife, etc and just move in w/ my Chinese GF and teach)

We are a multinational footwear company.  We own the factory we manufacture in and then have independent distributors (still owned by the same umbrella company though) in several countries including the largest one here in the USA.  We also sell our product -or cheaper versions of it, in the domestic Chinese market.

My next trip as a designer is going to be mid July to work on our Fall/Winter 09 product line.  So thats going to be right in the thick of it.  I'm not going near Beijing though, I go to Fuzhian and GZ.  My Visa is fairly new and its a full year multi entry business.

Nobody has heard anything yet about canceling or messing with pre-existing still valid multis have they???

Title: Re: A Hard Rain's Gonna Fall...
Post by: cheekygal on May 07, 2008, 01:03:44 AM
They won't cancel pre-existent visas. But it will be hard to get new visa.
Title: Re: A Hard Rain's Gonna Fall...
Post by: adamsmith on May 07, 2008, 04:10:53 AM
My paperwork went in yesterday for the renewal process for my residence permit here in Wuhan. I am still keeping my fingers crossed that there will be no problem. The FAO keeps reassuring me that there is no problem so I just hope she is right.
I will let you know the result when I have everything back signed sealed and delivered.
Title: Re: A Hard Rain's Gonna Fall...
Post by: contemporarydog on May 07, 2008, 10:35:21 AM
Some fuckwit on China Daily is trying to argue that China should be as strict as the UK, USA etc about issuing visas.

If it was, nobody would come to teach here at all.
Title: Re: A Hard Rain's Gonna Fall...
Post by: china-matt on May 07, 2008, 11:37:18 AM
My boss mentioned the other day that the university is having a difficult time getting 6-month visas for the Korean students. If they can't stay, they can't study, which means no tuition fees and no Chinese class for me.
Title: Re: A Hard Rain's Gonna Fall...
Post by: dgwest7 on May 14, 2008, 04:10:10 AM
This is just coming up as a general notice to readers that the visa situation in China is rapidly descending into madness. We are experiencing a massive crackdown on visas in the months leading up to the Olympics.

I am in Kunming on an F visa, and need to leave the country to convert to a z visa.

Does anyone know for sure whether a z visa can be obtained in Hong Kong?

Best regards

David
Title: Re: A Hard Rain's Gonna Fall...
Post by: MK on May 14, 2008, 06:13:16 AM
Quote from: dgwest7
Does anyone know for sure whether a z visa can be obtained in Hong Kong?

What I've heard is that any visa currently needs to be applied for in your home country, and that these Hong Kong conversions are not possible at the moment.

http://oneeyedpanda.wordpress.com/2008/05/01/china-visa-update/
Title: Re: A Hard Rain's Gonna Fall...
Post by: Noodles on May 21, 2008, 12:59:08 AM
A little update on the L visa.

I just got a double entry L in Hong Kong, each visit is for 30day max, so essentially it is good for 2 months.
For this you need an on-ward (out of HK to the mainland) flight ticket, i believe a train ticket will do and a hotel reservation. The visa agency can take care of this for you, if you don't have, for extra cash of course, 100hkd each.

There is no same day service anymore. The express service is applying in the morning and getting it back the following lunch time.


This all sucks though asasasasas as i need 1 year multiple entries. This will do for now as it got me back into the country but i think i'm off to the wifes hometown to grovel at the knees of the local PSB.

Wuhan anyone?? sorry, that should be another thread.
Title: Re: A Hard Rain's Gonna Fall...
Post by: Raoul F. Duke on May 21, 2008, 12:32:43 PM
First off...I now have a visa. It's a Spouse Visa...which in turn is actually a 6-month L visa (NO WORK PERMIT!). Being married to a Chinese national is one of the very few ways left to get one of these. The tale of getting there is long, weird, and includes accounts of ineptitude, cruelty, and terrorism. aoaoaoaoao

Uh, the "terrorism" part was me. uuuuuuuuuu
Coming soon to a Saloon near you...

I'm damned lucky. I have survived. Again.
Were I not married to Typhoon Susan, right now I would be back in the Tulsa airport with only the clothes on my back, unresponsive and curled tightly in the fetal position.
With this, renewals are pretty much automatic in the future axaxaxaxax ...as long as I remain married. apapapapap
The Lord sure works in mysterious ways. bibibibibi

Meanwhile, I'm hearing things that are yet unconfirmed but definitely scary.
These include:

- No more visas of any kind (at least not any kind relevant to us) from Hong Kong/Macao. Applicants may be required to return to their home countries to apply.

- New work/residence permits, and some other such "long-term" visas, will not be issued for periods of not more than 3 months at a time.

Don't panic. No confirmation on these yet, and we all know how bullshit gets around. But we all gots homework to do...
Title: Re: A Hard Rain's Gonna Fall...
Post by: adamsmith on May 21, 2008, 02:57:33 PM
Well, I am due to get my passport back tomorow from the PSB - hopefully I will have my new one year rez permit attached.
Title: Re: A Hard Rain's Gonna Fall...
Post by: cheekygal on May 21, 2008, 04:21:00 PM
Ok, tricky question (or so) - I am going to go on dependent's visa (L) and they usually have to give it for as long as my husband's Z visa is valid for, but with residency. Does anyone know what change is in that department? or is it all same? Cause consulate in Russia said they give a visa without having to leave China every 30 days. 
Title: Re: A Hard Rain's Gonna Fall...
Post by: Raoul F. Duke on May 21, 2008, 08:52:46 PM
Marriage does alter some things, sometimes.
I know there had been provisions where if someone was entering for legal work-related residency, dependents were covered by that person's residence permit and everyone was keyed to the same dates. Might explore to see if something like that is possible, if the two of you step out of the country and then come back on his papers...

I used to have a fair knowledge of how a lot of these things worked.
Today...all bets are off. Everything we know is (probably) wrong. llllllllll

Are you officially retiring from teaching? cheexyblonde
Title: Re: A Hard Rain's Gonna Fall...
Post by: adamsmith on May 22, 2008, 09:15:38 AM
Got my passport back with a nice fresh 1 year rez permit now. I am happy. bfbfbfbfbf
Title: Re: A Hard Rain's Gonna Fall...
Post by: Raoul F. Duke on May 22, 2008, 09:26:01 AM
Congrats. You should be. agagagagag
Title: Re: A Hard Rain's Gonna Fall...
Post by: dragonsaver on May 22, 2008, 10:11:07 AM
Oh oh!!  This is in Dalian!! llllllllll  Message from our University.

Everyone,
 
Please carry a copy of these documents with you when you are outside your apartment:

    * passport
    * visa
    * foreign expert certificate
    * residence permit (blue paper)

Last night some of our teachers and students were at McDonalds and a policeman demanded to see all of their passports. Since no one was carrying their passport, the policeman held one student hostage until everyone went home and returned with their passports. The policeman told them "If you are too scared to carry your passport, then go back to America."

If anyone finds themselves in this type of situation, please call ** immediately. I am sorry to those teachers who had to go through this situation.



Title: Re: A Hard Rain's Gonna Fall...
Post by: George on May 22, 2008, 10:23:16 AM
Quote
The policeman told them "If you are too scared to carry your passport, then go back to America."
Smartarse copper!! An opportunity to bignote hisself!! asasasasas
At least your Uni responded well.
Title: Re: A Hard Rain's Gonna Fall...
Post by: ericthered on May 22, 2008, 10:41:40 AM
Wow, things really are getting heated in China.
Title: Re: A Hard Rain's Gonna Fall...
Post by: Pashley on May 22, 2008, 11:41:15 AM
Our school has posted -- in our offices and near the elevator by our apartments -- copies of a "Notice to Foreigners in Nanjing" that appears to come from someone in authority. though it does not say who. There are ten points. Here they are, slightly shortened and with some English correction:

1 Register anywhere you stay within 24 hours

2 If you're on a D, Z, X or J-1 visa, you should "go through residential formalities" within 30 days

3 If your visa is expiring, apply for an extension at the PSB

4 No foreigner should work without government permission

5 If you're over 16, carry your papers

6 If you have a dog, get it licensed

7 If you want a drivers license, see the traffic cops

8 If your papers are stolen or lost, see the PSB

9 If property is stolen, stay at the scene and call the PSB

10 "Foreigners shall strengthen their awareness of security and make sure to keep the property safely."
Title: Re: A Hard Rain's Gonna Fall...
Post by: Raoul F. Duke on May 22, 2008, 11:49:21 AM
It IS heating. Bigtime.
I don't feel comfortable carrying my passport and permit/visa around all the time. It's just way too easy to lose it. My strategy has always been to take photocopies of my passport's front page and my current visa/permit, and carry them in my wallet. If pressed, I present these and offer to take them back to my home and get the originals. This usually seems to satisfy them...
Title: Re: A Hard Rain's Gonna Fall...
Post by: Pashley on May 22, 2008, 11:53:02 AM
A friend in Fujian reports:

All is turning to shit for us here now. The govt. announced a 2 month continuous raid period of Fujian schools in an attempt to throw out all foreigners. Began 2 days ago.

The local PSB ... a 15 day extension of a visa one time ...you leave the country after that. Or a one month business visa with a single renewal.
Title: Re: A Hard Rain's Gonna Fall...
Post by: becster79 on May 22, 2008, 12:08:08 PM
Pashley, why would they do that if the foreigner is perfectly legal?? Very strange....

Well, I've been in constant touch with my new school, they've also been in touch with the PSB to check a few things for me, and NOTHING has been stated about a criminal check etc. And they said to just come at least a week early in August before my current res permit expires and we'll get onto it immediately.
Title: Re: A Hard Rain's Gonna Fall...
Post by: Pashley on May 22, 2008, 01:22:25 PM
Pashley, why would they do that if the foreigner is perfectly legal?? Very strange....

The person I was quoting probably is not legal. I think he has been teaching with an F (business) visa obtained in Hong Kong. The F visa is supposed to require an invitation letter from a Chinese company that is doing business with you. Until recently, HK or Macau visa offices would happily issue them without that. Now, depending which report you believe, they either won't do that any more or won't issue them at all.

The school he is at, like many other relatively sleazy operations, cannot get residence permits for its teachers. Before a school can do that, they need to apply for and receive authorisation from SAFEA (State Administration for Foreign Experts). Straightforward (maybe even automatic?) for universities, but a hassle for private schools. I talked to one guy who went through the process; it took nearly two years and an amount of money in the 10s of thousands to get it through.
Title: Re: A Hard Rain's Gonna Fall...
Post by: latefordinner on May 22, 2008, 10:26:24 PM
DS, this is Dalian. Was the cop trying to shake your school down? They have a reputation for that in this town.
Title: Re: A Hard Rain's Gonna Fall...
Post by: dragonsaver on May 22, 2008, 11:53:44 PM
Liaoning Normal University isn't a school I would think would be subject to a shake-down.  I actually work at Missouri State University which is part of LNU.  We will have our photocopies in our possession and the FAO on speed dial on our phones - which is who we were told to phone if this happened again.

I am just surprised as everything is usually 'cool' here.

Additional information just received from the Dean of our Uni.  He is slightly nickered off bfbfbfbfbf

Sorry to hear this. Would you please tell me which McDnalds and what time? I'll report it to the Municipal Government and Foreign Expert Bureau.If you find youself in this kind of situation next time call me at xxxxx or **(the 'party' head, Assoc Dean) at xxxxx. We'll be there ASAP.
 
Title: Re: A Hard Rain's Gonna Fall...
Post by: cheekygal on May 23, 2008, 02:47:25 AM
RD, I am retiring from teaching or work in general for a while  agagagagag I will be coming back to my professional life next year, either after Spring Festival, or fresh in September :-) I am not planning on leaving China to renew my passport or visa. Neither my husband as he has a proper Z visa. I am just going to get dependent's visa based on his existant.
Title: Re: A Hard Rain's Gonna Fall...
Post by: James the Brit on May 23, 2008, 04:14:50 AM
Cheeky, aren't you on a Z visa now?
Title: Re: A Hard Rain's Gonna Fall...
Post by: cheekygal on May 23, 2008, 08:13:27 AM
Well, it is expiring and since I am not going to work as I have mentioned twice already, I won't be getting a Z visa. :-)
Title: Re: A Hard Rain's Gonna Fall...
Post by: Raoul F. Duke on May 23, 2008, 06:36:24 PM
And in that case ya won't need one, tastycakes. agagagagag

I fear the phenomenon of people working here on a 3- or 6-month F or L visa is on the verge of becoming extinct. Probably forever; I again see no reason whatsoever to think all this will end after Los Olimpicos.

If this is you, you need to be making different plans...either changing jobs, or leaving China. aoaoaoaoao
Title: Re: A Hard Rain's Gonna Fall...
Post by: Con ate dog on May 24, 2008, 05:20:31 AM
And in that case ya won't need one, tastycakes. agagagagag

I fear the phenomenon of people working here on a 3- or 6-month F or L visa is on the verge of becoming extinct. Probably forever; I again see no reason whatsoever to think all this will end after Los Olimpicos.

If this is you, you need to be making different plans...either changing jobs, or leaving China. aoaoaoaoao

How about: they still have use for us?
Title: Re: A Hard Rain's Gonna Fall...
Post by: ericthered on May 24, 2008, 06:53:50 AM
Con, they may stil have use for the FT's but they are just going to tighten the rules. Those FT's who can go home, apply for and get a proper 1 year Z visa should have no trouble coming back.
Title: Re: A Hard Rain's Gonna Fall...
Post by: AMonk on May 24, 2008, 09:25:55 AM
Separating the wheat from the chaff.....not just FTs, but also schools.  Might be good for all.  Smaller available supply of FTs = higher salaries ??
Title: Re: A Hard Rain's Gonna Fall...
Post by: Raoul F. Duke on May 24, 2008, 10:14:14 AM
Definitely the schools, too. A lot of people have been making money that are not, well, you know...the right  people. ZILLIONS of private training centers have been- usually completely without our knowledge- buying permit-issuing licenses from other companies. The fine print in our "official" contracts, and our work permits, have often said things like "network developer" or "electronics engineer" and so forth...George's work permit actually lists him, in Chinese, as a "crack whore"! ahahahahah

Up til now the cops have been looking the other way at this. 'Fraid we can't count on that any more... aoaoaoaoao
So...a lot of those private schools are going to be totally desperate for foreign teachers...or go out of business altogether.

And, I'm afraid...a chilling thought...
Up until now, the schools here have had considerable ability to use their visa sponsorship as a weapon/bargaining trump card against us.
Just imagine  what it's going to be like now that our visa options are much more limited... aoaoaoaoao bibibibibi llllllllll bqbqbqbqbq apapapapap eeeeeeeeee vvvvvvvvvv
Title: Re: A Hard Rain's Gonna Fall...
Post by: Lotus Eater on May 24, 2008, 10:32:00 AM
So really our best options are to have a 'proper' job with a gov't school?  Freelancing could end up being very dodgy???
Title: Re: A Hard Rain's Gonna Fall...
Post by: ericthered on May 24, 2008, 10:39:48 AM
I can see how many people's lives will suffer from these new rules but, in the greater picture, is it not likely that this will improve the quality and standards in this, as have so often been pointed out, flawed educational system?
Title: Re: A Hard Rain's Gonna Fall...
Post by: Acjade on May 24, 2008, 11:02:36 AM
Not all if you're with the right government department. It's likely the other way in fact. Those on faux diplomas in govt.institutions will get a retro viza right quick.
Title: Re: A Hard Rain's Gonna Fall...
Post by: Lotus Eater on May 24, 2008, 11:12:43 AM
I can see how many people's lives will suffer from these new rules but, in the greater picture, is it not likely that this will improve the quality and standards in this, as have so often been pointed out, flawed educational system?

We can hope so.  I found it interesting that this year at the debate tournament there were more FTs as coaches of teams, indicating to me that there are maybe more teachers out there now willing to get involved with the students in more than just a classroom situation.  Those teachers I think are at least trying to increase the quality and standards of the education system.  I hope those teachers institutions have the right systems in place for visa renewal.
Title: Re: A Hard Rain's Gonna Fall...
Post by: Raoul F. Duke on May 24, 2008, 10:22:40 PM
So really our best options are to have a 'proper' job with a gov't school?  Freelancing could end up being very dodgy???
DodgIER, yeah.
I fear the pure freelancer is about to be wiped from the face of China... asasasasas

As for standards improving...don't be absurd. Guys, there ARE no standards here, except perhaps for Net Margin. The bookkeeping is simply being tightened up, that's all.

I'd like to tell you that educated, degreed, certified teachers are a lot better at what they do than former bait-shop employees.

I'd like to, but I can't.  llllllllll

Overall, the effective/wanker margin seems to be about the same for both groups.
Title: Re: A Hard Rain's Gonna Fall...
Post by: contemporarydog on May 25, 2008, 04:00:03 AM
Yup - as I mentioned before, I went to a 'posh' UK secondary school, considered one of the best in London, and there were some utterly useless teachers there, so really, even being a properly qualified teacher, never mind a holder of xyz Degree, is no guarantee of being any good.
Title: Re: A Hard Rain's Gonna Fall...
Post by: Lotus Eater on May 25, 2008, 05:22:15 AM
No - it isn't a guarantee of being a 'good' teacher.  But it does mean that you should have at lest some understanding of both pedagogy and your subjects.

The same arguments have been run time and time again when jobs become professions.  Do you want your child to be delivered by the local old ladies or by a trained OB/GYN??  Do you want your dentist not to have any training? My guess is you would still prefer those who have studied in the area to be treating you than those who just think they might be good at it. 

Why is it OK then for your children to be taught by those with no understanding of the wide variety of techniques, pedagogical theories, child/adolescent development and a solid grounding in their subject area?  Do you want your own children taught by unqualified backpackers, who will disappear in 10 months having no responsilility to your child or the system?

We can see for ourselves the problems already here by not having really well qualified teachers.

Maybe China is beginning to realise that a western face does not ensure quality either and they are being a little more selective.

But what does confuse me about the visa problem is the difficulty for genuine tourists to get here, especially with the Olympics looming.  The view of some of the students here is that this policy has been slipped in under teh guise of national security and not thoroughly analysed prior to signing by HJT - in an effort bu some factions to dethrone him.  Interesting view.

From where I sit China wants the tourist dollar but not the tourist body.








Title: Re: A Hard Rain's Gonna Fall...
Post by: contemporarydog on May 25, 2008, 05:25:55 AM
I agree, Lotus.  But then, what are our 'borders' for what constitutes a qualified teacher?  If one is going to insist that the teachers have full QTS, they will have a lot of difficulty filling all the posts, for the salaries paid.  I've only met about 3 people teaching ESL here who were 'properly qualified' in the sense of having a PGCE or B.Ed.  But just having a normal Degree, while it may well ensure that someone is literate and the rest of it, does not guarantee at all that that person will be a good teacher.  If anything having a CELTA may be a better guide (for the purposes of ESL teaching) than having a Degree in Economics or whatever.  I knew a couple in Wuhan who had no Degrees, but had CELTAs, and from what I saw, they were two of the best teachers at my school.
Title: Re: A Hard Rain's Gonna Fall...
Post by: MK on May 25, 2008, 07:01:02 AM
There was a programme in Taiwan a few years back, to put Laowai into Taiwanese public schools as language assistants.

They insisted that applicants have a PGCE or B.Ed.  This meant that someone with a PGCE in computer science, for example, would get a job teaching English over someone with a DELTA or MA TESOL.  Bit daft, I thought.

Anyway, the money was very average, and the programme seemed to disapear without trace.
Title: Re: A Hard Rain's Gonna Fall...
Post by: Senor Boogie Woogie on May 25, 2008, 08:28:06 AM

Hola!

My visa expires July 31. My visa used to be winter to winter, which was a lot nicer.

I am on a Z visa now, do I have to go home to get another Z visa? The girl in my FAO office said that I only need to do a physical examination because my other paperwork is on file. Another University may want to hire me, but I am afraid of trying to go with a new employer and get caught in some shitsnare where I am going on a visa run to California. I am also concerned about the infamous "5 year limit" rumor. I have been in China for over 7 years.

Being married is a good Ace in the hole, but my old lady wont do that unless there is no other way. On an L, one cannot legally work, and she doesn't want to be married to a bummy guy working for dodgy outfits illegally.

I was just over at Dave's ESL and no one over there knows what the hell is going on either.

Senor
Title: Re: A Hard Rain's Gonna Fall...
Post by: George on May 25, 2008, 09:20:47 AM
just checked my passport. Res Permit expires June 6!! Phoned the Boss, she says "yes, we know. What are your plans? We need someone to teach High School". Looks like I'm gunna go back to High School.  So far, it's been Senior Primary, Junior Middle, Junior Primary....Mr. Adaptable, that's me!!
Title: Re: A Hard Rain's Gonna Fall...
Post by: MK on May 25, 2008, 09:42:10 AM
Senor, my understanding is that if you are staying in the same job, it's a visa renewal, in-country, as usual. My school don't seem bothered in the slightest by any of the recent hoopla, and we have A LOT of foreign teachers here, many renewing.

If you are changing jobs, however, who knows?  We are all in the dark to some extent at the moment.
Title: Re: A Hard Rain's Gonna Fall...
Post by: Raoul F. Duke on May 25, 2008, 03:08:39 PM
Thanks guys for routing around the boxes and getting this thing back on topic. agagagagag

The off stuff was off, anyway...the LAST thing in the world most Chinese schools want is that quality stuff. But you can start a new thread on this if you'd like. I'm sure you will. bfbfbfbfbf

No one at Dave's ESL Cafe really knows anything worth a damn anyway. ahahahahah  But I think it's safe to say that right now, NO ONE knows what the hell is happening with visas...least of all the schools and the hard-workin' comrades at our various Exit-Entry Bureaus. All you can do is get the current local info for your place and time.

Some good questions to ask prospective employers, and distinguish yourself from the great unwashed masses over at Dave's Chez Fasciste and other such diversions:

- Will you provide me with a full 1-year Residence Permit and Work Permit/Foreign Expert Certificate? (The Classic; some things just never go out of style...)

- Will I have to leave the country to get/renew my new permits?

- Will my documents, including my Chinese-language contract and my Work Permit/Foreign Expert Certificate, show my occupation as "Teacher", or will it be something else? (If it doesn't say "Teacher", you may be heading for trouble...)

- Are you entirely sure about that? Can you put that in writing or send it as an e-mail for me? (Use this one rather a lot!)

And...be careful out there... aoaoaoaoao
Title: Re: A Hard Rain's Gonna Fall...
Post by: Eagle on May 25, 2008, 11:56:18 PM
So really our best options are to have a 'proper' job with a gov't school?  Freelancing could end up being very dodgy???
DodgIER, yeah.
I fear the pure freelancer is about to be wiped from the face of China... asasasasas

As for standards improving...don't be absurd. Guys, there ARE no standards here, except perhaps for Net Margin. The bookkeeping is simply being tightened up, that's all.

I'd like to tell you that educated, degreed, certified teachers are a lot better at what they do than former bait-shop employees.

I'd like to, but I can't.  llllllllll

Overall, the effective/wanker margin seems to be about the same for both groups.

As a former school administrator, I can state with a clear conscience and likely can find more stats to throw at the discussion to prove that, "educated, degreed, certified teachers are a lot better at what they do ... ". 

Eric the Red - Yep!  You are likely spot on.  Tightening the rules could clean up the joint called Foreign Teachers' in China.  We definitely don't assist in improving the system by participating in fraud.  If you want to be a teacher in China, get at least the minimum training ... and then, do a lot of continuing education so that you can actually get better.  Anything less is a statement of participation in the rip off of Chinese students, their parents and the society as a whole.

Why shouldn't we have proper visas and work in proper schools and carry ID?  We generally have to do this in any western country which we use to negatively compare China.  Drive?  Carry your ID.  Shop?  Carry your ID.  Wander around in an unfamiliar region of the world where you might get hit by a taxi and be unable to speak?  Carry your ID.  Where is our common sense?
Title: Re: A Hard Rain's Gonna Fall...
Post by: Lotus Eater on May 26, 2008, 12:10:28 AM
In Oz we don't have ID cards - our biggest system of ID is our driver's licence.  Which we do have to carry when we are driving, but otherwise it's pretty rare that we would need to show it to anyone.  Once you have got a bank card, then you don't need any more ID for shopping.  So carrying ID is pretty optional for us.

But overseas, it is always useful to have something that tells people where/who to contact if you get into trouble and your language isn't good enough.  The uni gives us ID cards and I carry that rather than my passport.  (I try to figure out what is the lest mafan to replace if lost or stolen).  So carrying my passport and experts certificate IN XI'AN will be different for me. Travelling I have to carry my passport now - the really useful green residents card has bitten the dust - previously I travelled all over China using that on the principle that it was easier for the FAO to get me a new one of those than for me to get a new passport. ahahahahah

 
Title: Re: A Hard Rain's Gonna Fall...
Post by: Stil on May 26, 2008, 12:32:17 AM
This past weekend I went to a small town in Hunan that I frequently visit and stay over night. I've been going there for years and I have never needed 'papers' to do anything including hotels because everyone knows me and I'm on file. This time though there were 2 new forms to fill out and they wanted to photocopy everything. Now this kind of thing is common in big cities and tourist towns but this place is neither of those. I didn't have my papers so one of the staff rented the room for me in her name. This is a farming town. The hotel is the best in town - 50 RMB per night. In most cities in China a foreigner would not be allowed to stay there.

Not sure if this info will help anybody but it shows it's not just a visa issue but anything involving foreigners. This town does not usually pay attention to 'the rules' but are doing so now.

Make sure you dot your 'I's and cross your 'T's. For those of you that are living off-campus, have you registered with the PSB? On campus living or living outside in school apartments means you will be registered but if you found your flat on your own, it's your responsibility to register. If you haven't and they check you, you'll get a hefty fine. Much like the overstay visa fine but not capped.
Title: Re: A Hard Rain's Gonna Fall...
Post by: Raoul F. Duke on May 26, 2008, 02:09:04 AM
Ditto. Excellent advice indeed. Of course, pretty much no one has ever done this, at least not in recent years, but it looks like we'll have to start. bibibibibi
Title: Re: A Hard Rain's Gonna Fall...
Post by: Pashley on May 26, 2008, 02:39:05 AM
And, I'm afraid...a chilling thought...
Up until now, the schools here have had considerable ability to use their visa sponsorship as a weapon/bargaining trump card against us.
Just imagine  what it's going to be like now that our visa options are much more limited...
Maybe better for us, though it is hard to tell.

The existing schools may be forced to either go through the SAFEA authorisation process so they can legally get residence permits or go out of business. That should eliminate some of the sleazier operators. Good riddance. If lots of the survivors then have legal permission to employ foreigners and can get residence permits for their staff, that's also good.
Title: Re: A Hard Rain's Gonna Fall...
Post by: Raoul F. Duke on May 26, 2008, 04:16:06 AM
State schools are already part of SAFEA; I don't think many of the private schools will bother with SAFEA procedures. (If you don't know, SAFEA- the State Administration for Foreign Expert Affairs- is a governmental body allegedly charged with regulating interactions between Chinese employers and foreign workers.)

Too many restrictions and rules and regulations, and licenses to buy, and palms to grease. This is why most of them call themselves "training centers" in the first place.

I think most of them will either find other ways to get their foreign-labor licenses, or shut down the school and put the Chinese staff to work selling Amway products. Or cling to a precarious existance trying to keep a full boat of part-timers from the public sector.

I don't really think much of SAFEA, anyway.

For one thing, I think that believing they have any inclination to or interest in protecting US is a very dangerous assumption. They very likely exist to protect the schools FROM us.

And like many other national government agencies, it probably doesn't have much real authority at the local level.

Have you ever heard of SAFEA intervening in any situation on behalf of a foreign teacher? I never have.

Have you ever heard of SAFEA intervening in any situation at all? I never have.

I suspect SAFEA is in a category along with our contracts, or any other illusory phantasm of the rule of law in China: It's there to invoke when it suits our employers' purposes, and to ignore altogether when it doesn't. Even in the State schools.

If the rules and the laws had any real ability to clean up the sleaze, wouldn't they have already done so? At least a little?

But hey, maybe I'm wrong...
Title: Re: A Hard Rain's Gonna Fall...
Post by: Pashley on May 26, 2008, 10:00:09 AM
I don't think many of the private schools will bother with SAFEA procedures. ... Too many restrictions and rules and regulations, and licenses to buy, and palms to grease.

Certainly they don't want to and up to now many of them haven't. But my understanding is that doing is so has always been the only way they can legally employ foreign teachers. That's never been enforced; as always it depends who you know among the local officials, what favours are owed or wanted, et cetera.

But if Beijing pushes hard on this as part of a general cleanup, then local officials will have much less latitude and some schools will have to clean up their acts or die. My reading is that Beijing are already doing such pushing, but I cannot tell how hard they are prepared to push or how long they'll keep it up.

Quote
This is why most of them call themselves "training centers" in the first place.

I think most of them will either find other ways to get their foreign-labor licenses,
My understanding is that, at least for teachers, there are no other legal ways.

Quote
I don't really think much of SAFEA, anyway.

For one thing, I think that believing they have any inclination to or interest in protecting US is a very dangerous assumption. They very likely exist to protect the schools FROM us.
My impression is that much of their function is to protect China from us. They write the contract boilerplate, for instance, that forbids romantic involvement with students, also drinking, smoking or gambling with them. Their regulations require schools to provide health insurance; I think mainly to protect against loss of face for China.

Quote
And like many other national government agencies, it probably doesn't have much real authority at the local level.
Indeed.

Quote
I suspect SAFEA is in a category along with our contracts, or any other illusory phantasm of the rule of law in China: It's there to invoke when it suits our employers' purposes, and to ignore altogether when it doesn't. Even in the State schools.

If the rules and the laws had any real ability to clean up the sleaze, wouldn't they have already done so? At least a little?

But hey, maybe I'm wrong...
I know just what you mean, but I'm hoping that we'll see some de-sleazing as a byproduct of rule-tightening that they have decided to do for other reasons.
Title: Re: A Hard Rain's Gonna Fall...
Post by: cheekygal on May 26, 2008, 01:54:52 PM
As much as Beijing pushes, the ads you see make me laugh. I mean they KNOW the rules are stricts, but they still don't offer work visa. And the ads are getting more day by day cause schools can't keep foreigners there. At the very end, who is going to work there? If only these training centers invested some money in actually getting the license for hiring foreigners and just charged them regular price or may be slightly higher. Then things would definitely be easy - legitimate and they'd still make a very good profit.
Title: Re: A Hard Rain's Gonna Fall...
Post by: James the Brit on May 26, 2008, 01:57:11 PM
If only these training centers invested some money in actually getting the license for hiring foreigners and just charged them regular price or may be slightly higher. Then things would definitely be easy - legitimate and they'd still make a very good profit.

Yeah, if only. I get the impression these places dont fully understand what will happen to them this summer. My school doeant anyway.
Title: Re: A Hard Rain's Gonna Fall...
Post by: Lotus Eater on May 27, 2008, 12:46:38 AM
Nothing out of the ordinary on the train trip back.  I was carrying perfume in a  bottle, plus all the normal powders and creams in bottles and tubes that women carry with them.We took water and beer onto the train.  We went through the x-ray as usual, my Swiss Army knife was in my backpack - no problems.  Not stopped at all. Haven't shown my passport to anyone since booking into the hotel  Totally normal so far.  Go back to Beijing on Friday night - will see what happens then.
Title: Re: A Hard Rain's Gonna Fall...
Post by: Riz on May 27, 2008, 03:09:15 AM
Hi
I am Riz. I just joined Raoul's saloon a few days ago. Congratulations to me ! My this university has refused to renew my contract for the next year.My residence permit is good until 30th July 2008 and I have a few jobs in hand.I want to quote that text message that I received from this woman called Jane who is our liaison " I am sorry to tell you that the students in Foreign Language Deptt asked Dean Lee to change you and Dean Lee discussed with Dr Sun(Incharge of Foreign Affairs office) and Dr Sun told me to inform you that we cannot sign a new contract" aaaaaaaaaa! My ! This is such a zigzagged way to refuse. Anyway this gave me a good laugh and I had shown that text to all my colleagues and they were equally amused.I have been teaching at this university for two years now. I think that I used to goof off and play games in the class last year and entertained 21 year old kids and they were 'happy'. This year I stopped entertaining them and started teaching.I did play language games few times but the students' motivated level was way down.
I briefly share my teaching experience with my new friends here.The university where I teach is a private one and it's got a huge campus and 35000 students.There's no such thing called Merit to enter this place.Any parents with loads of money can admit their children here so the stuff we get here to teach is just crap! majority of them have no idea if why had they chosen English as a major subject.I frequently notice the underlying activities in the classes I teach.

1-Sleeping in the class as if this is a bedroom.
2-Listen to walkman during the lesson.
3-Bringing boyfriends to the class for a little bit of physical pleasure like cuddling r kissing in the back seats.
4-Eating while the teacher passes instructions.
5-reading irrelavant books,mostly cheap crap semi-porn mags or love stories.
6-Ignoring the teacher and pretending 'not listening'.
7-Talking to other classmates loudly.

The students are our judges and specialist to inform the foreign language deptt if the teacher is 'good or 'bad'.There is a monitor and a spy in every class to report to the dean or the head teacher.Foreigners have no say but they have a right to remain silent because it's a business and our are supposed to entertain the kids in and outside the classroom.English corners are held every week to enhance their English speaking skills where we are surrounded by 200 students asking us VERY personal questions.

I would love to share more of it later my friends.It's 'interseting' to work here.
Cheers.
Title: Re: A Hard Rain's Gonna Fall...
Post by: joe.thinker on May 29, 2008, 02:06:01 AM
Have you ever heard of SAFEA intervening in any situation on behalf of a foreign teacher? I never have.

Have you ever heard of SAFEA intervening in any situation at all? I never have.

I had a buddy who, a couple jobs back, shirked him of all his benefits at the end of the year (about 15,000 RMB). So he called SAFEA.

**Whichever party asks for deliberation, pays the deliberation fees.**

His school had a ton of guanxi he didn't know about, and they convinced the SAFEA to keep it in deliberation, but keep finding setbacks, or troublesome wording, or chickens that were more fascinating to draw out the process such that the SAFEA bill - for my friend - came to reach, surprise, 15,000 RMB.

The school then paid his benefits, after SAFEA concluded that the school was at fault.

Sooooo ... yes ? They DID help him  mmmmmmmmmm ? Well - they ruled in his favour ?
Title: Re: A Hard Rain's Gonna Fall... (THE VISA NIGHTMARE!)
Post by: Con ate dog on May 31, 2008, 05:50:46 AM
The latest rumour: I hear tell that the fuzz are seeking out foreigners who have not registered their latest place of resident.  The fine: 5,000 RMB!  aoaoaoaoao
Title: Re: A Hard Rain's Gonna Fall... (THE VISA NIGHTMARE!)
Post by: Lotus Eater on May 31, 2008, 08:13:16 AM
I'm at Qinghua Daxue at the moment and haven't registered. Maybe someone else did for me, but I haven't been asked to hand over my passport to anyone.

Noting abnormal on the train either and I brought bottles and powders in my luggage - no searches at the x-ray, nothing on the train.
Title: Re: A Hard Rain's Gonna Fall... (THE VISA NIGHTMARE!)
Post by: Raoul F. Duke on May 31, 2008, 08:50:17 PM
I guess no news is always good news... mmmmmmmmmm

For the multi-entries...hard to say. There is no uniform law on this stuff. Provinces can be different, Consulates can be different, Visa Officers can be different (The Chinese corps diplomatique  seems to just HATE it when you wake them up to do trivial little BS things like issuing you a visa...)...yesterday can be different from today... llllllllll

My current Spouse Visa ( llllllllll ) was only available with one entry. I only have it to re-enter with because I was already in the country when it was issued...

Quote from:  Con Et Dawg
The latest rumour: I hear tell that the fuzz are seeking out foreigners who have not registered their latest place of resident.  The fine: 5,000 RMB!

Our wise Walloon friend brings up an excellent point for a change: Please make sure you know the rules. It's your responsibility to know what they are...under Chinese law, you can quite easily be prosecuted for things you had absolutely no idea about. aoaoaoaoao  Obeying all the rules in China, at least those concerning visas and residence and work...well, I can't possibly recommend strongly enough that you follow ALL of them or don't try to be here...not the way things are right now. We'll try to help you as best we can...but the situation is becoming chaotic enough that I'm not sure ANYONE knows what's happening any more.

Bear in mind that even a lot of the admins/managers/FAOs of schools, normally your guides on these matters, don't really know what's going on or what must be done.

No...more than usual, I mean. uuuuuuuuuu

Anyway. A lot of stuff that the cops have turned a blind eye to in the past, is getting closely scrutinized now. The mood is downright ugly. Get legal...or get packing... oooooooooo
Title: Re: A Hard Rain's Gonna Fall... (THE VISA NIGHTMARE!)
Post by: Lotus Eater on May 31, 2008, 11:21:02 PM
One of the high-powered boffins planning on coming to China for the conference I am at, couldn't get a visa  from the Chinese embassy in the US.  You can no longer just send your visa application in with the money.  You must go in person!!  How many Chinese consulates are there in the US?
Title: Re: A Hard Rain's Gonna Fall... (THE VISA NIGHTMARE!)
Post by: Raoul F. Duke on May 31, 2008, 11:36:20 PM
The answer is found easily in our woefully underused and underappreciated Links pages...

China has one Embassy (Washington DC) and five Consulates in the USA: Chicago, Houston, Los Angeles, New York City, and San Francisco.

Addresses for them can be found...well, you know... bfbfbfbfbf
Title: Re: A Hard Rain's Gonna Fall... (THE VISA NIGHTMARE!)
Post by: LaowaiSaosao on June 01, 2008, 01:23:49 AM
I think I'm on a spouse visa, at least we asked for one year multiple entry visas for myself and the kids and they gave us two year multiple entry visas  - RESULT! But this was in London in January, before all the antics started, and I think it helped that it my Chinese hubby went to apply cos I was working. We have to leave every six months but I figure that's a good excuse for a holiday, we don't have to leave for any length of time, I went to Hong Kong for a couple of days in April and got back in fine.

I am going today to register our new address, we forgot till now but seeing the post above reminded me - thanks! As far as I know there has been no trouble for foreigners here so far (although an expat friend had to say goodbye to her Filipino ayi as she couldn't get her visa renewed), maybe cos we aren't too close to any Olympic sites, and I reckon they have got bigger things on their mind for now. Fingers crossed it will stay that way.
Title: Re: A Hard Rain's Gonna Fall... (THE VISA NIGHTMARE!)
Post by: Raoul F. Duke on June 01, 2008, 01:55:09 AM
Yeah...I'm hearing that some groups are having more trouble getting visas than others.

Filipinos...I think as part of the long-running political feuds between China and the Philippines, largely over certain oil-bearing South Sea islands. It's too bad...I think Filipinos are some of the coolest people in China. And I admire their women-folk. bfbfbfbfbf

Germans, because of the large Turkish population residing in Germany. Turks of course may be inconvenient when visiting their disgruntled Uygur cousins out in Xinjiang, whose ethnicity and language are very close to their own. No added comment...some of the German guys we get in the Shamrock are really cool, but for the most part the German and English-speaking communities in Suzhou, both quite large, are like oil and water. They just don't mix.
And I'm sorry...I don't mean to offend...but I find most German music really...creepy... aoaoaoaoao
Title: Re: A Hard Rain's Gonna Fall... (THE VISA NIGHTMARE!)
Post by: DaDan on June 01, 2008, 02:28:36 AM
Well….

Tomorrow morning, Monday, I go to HK with the hope / expectation of getting a new visa, I’ll pay two nights at me hotel here in Shenzhen & expect to be back in China Tuesday evening with either 30 more days or… 5.
From a few reliable sources I hear the 90 day L visa with double 30 day entries is nearly simple to get, even for Americans. Essentially a 2 month visa.

Last week I wrapped up a lot of my life things in case I get turned down & Need return to me home country to reapply…

If they give me the visa I’m good until August…
If they say no `Go… I will.

I’ll report back when I get back.
Title: Re: A Hard Rain's Gonna Fall... (THE VISA NIGHTMARE!)
Post by: Raoul F. Duke on June 01, 2008, 03:58:47 AM
Good luck. Aloha... agagagagag
Title: Re: A Hard Rain's Gonna Fall... (THE VISA NIGHTMARE!)
Post by: Lotus Eater on June 01, 2008, 10:30:10 AM
Sorry - I was being facetious about the number of Chinese consulates in the USA (reminder to self - yet again - use smilies!! llllllllll).  I was questioning the convenience for USAnians to get to a consulate to have face-face interviews for their visas - which is what they wanted this particular university professor to do - even though he had been to China twice in the last 3 years for conference attendance.

Previously I understand you could post the visa application - same as in Oz.
Title: Re: A Hard Rain's Gonna Fall... (THE VISA NIGHTMARE!)
Post by: Shroomy on June 01, 2008, 10:55:02 AM
A flight to apply for a visa in person will now cost most people at least 600 USD or well into the 1000's for an unscheduled trip.  Do you think it was him or new policy?
Title: Re: A Hard Rain's Gonna Fall... (THE VISA NIGHTMARE!)
Post by: Lotus Eater on June 01, 2008, 10:58:22 AM
May never know the answer to that one - but he had invitations to attend the conference and be a keynote speaker, and been here before and is part of a International Advisory Board.
Title: Re: A Hard Rain's Gonna Fall... (THE VISA NIGHTMARE!)
Post by: contemporarydog on June 01, 2008, 12:38:14 PM
One of the high-powered boffins planning on coming to China for the conference I am at, couldn't get a visa  from the Chinese embassy in the US.  You can no longer just send your visa application in with the money.  You must go in person!!  How many Chinese consulates are there in the US?

I'm pretty certain that when I first came, in 2003, I had to go in person too.
Title: Re: A Hard Rain's Gonna Fall... (THE VISA NIGHTMARE!)
Post by: Ruth on June 01, 2008, 02:03:01 PM
When I first applied in 2003, I could have done so by using a proxy company to go in person to the consulate for me.  Someone, didn't have to be me personally, could have taken my passport and application form.  We didn't trust these companies and we were on a tight time-line, so flew to Houston, spent a couple of days in a hotel and carried on with our journey to China.

Houston was a long way from where I lived and it wasn't cheap flying there, either.  Majorly inconvenient, but part of the price of coming here to live and work.
Title: Re: A Hard Rain's Gonna Fall... (THE VISA NIGHTMARE!)
Post by: icebear on June 01, 2008, 02:37:46 PM
I used a visa agent in Washington DC in 2006, as did my 3-5 friends that have come in the last two years for work or travel. Adds about $50-100 depending on the rush, and is well worth it in my opinion. I seriously hope this is still working this summer as I'm planning a trip back home for 2-3 weeks in early July and will need to renew then. Having to fly from Alaska down to San Francisco would be a serious bite in the ass. Is it possible for an American to apply in Vancouver? I know normally ok, but what about currently?

More pressing at the moment:

After a recent business trip to Europe I went in with my landlord to register. They told him he's not allowed to register me?! Had no problems last fall when it was his buddy behind the counter, but now everyone is going by the book and apparently he was missing some key piece of paper. He's a friend of a friend and I'm assured he's scrambling to rectify the situation, but in the meantime I'm unregistered! How to I go about fixing this? A friend proposed I register into one of his empty rooms, which is fine with me, but what paperwork would I need to bring? Advice appreciated...
Title: Re: A Hard Rain's Gonna Fall... (THE VISA NIGHTMARE!)
Post by: James the Brit on June 01, 2008, 03:50:47 PM
After a recent business trip to Europe I went in with my landlord to register. They told him he's not allowed to register me?! Had no problems last fall

Exact same situation in Beijing for me. Im leaving my room tomorrow (Tuesday), and the cops dont want a foreigner to finish my lease. Which is annoying as i had found an American friend who was interested. Apparently its too much hassle for the police to register my friend this time round. It was no problem, to register me in October and then again in January.  asasasasas asasasasas llllllllll llllllllll
Title: Re: A Hard Rain's Gonna Fall... (THE VISA NIGHTMARE!)
Post by: icebear on June 01, 2008, 04:18:31 PM
You were forced to move out? So you're just getting a new apartment on the fly? A still unregistered?

My problem is my visa expires in August and I'm hesitant to sign a new lease until I have a new visa in hand. Trying to explore my options.

Yes, it is shaping up to look like quite the hard rain.
Title: Re: A Hard Rain's Gonna Fall... (THE VISA NIGHTMARE!)
Post by: AMonk on June 01, 2008, 05:52:00 PM
You were forced to move out? So you're just getting a new apartment on the fly? A still unregistered?


No, Icebear.  James-the-Brit is going home, moving on.  Before his apartment lease expires.  He has someone willing to take it over (so Landlord won't lose cash), but the PSB (who have to know where every foreigner is housed) won't OK the swap of round-eyes.
Title: Re: A Hard Rain's Gonna Fall... (THE VISA NIGHTMARE!)
Post by: Lotus Eater on June 01, 2008, 11:59:13 PM
There is a Chinese consulate in Brisbane now so it is easy for those people to go to there aand get a visa.  But when I came the only place was Canberra, so I sent my visa application by mail, plus money, and they sent it back in a week or two. No interviews.

Don't know if has changed now - but Oz is a big country and there aren't so many consulates.
Title: Re: A Hard Rain's Gonna Fall... (THE VISA NIGHTMARE!)
Post by: cheekygal on June 02, 2008, 12:05:54 AM
I don't understand why PSB won't OK it. Perhaps cause the other flatmates are Chinese? Otherwise I don't know anyone who's had a problem registering in an apartment they rented.
I am moving out of mine in July before my lease is over (and rent I already paid till mid-August) and if my LL ok's it, I 'll help her find someone instead of me.
Title: Re: A Hard Rain's Gonna Fall... (THE VISA NIGHTMARE!)
Post by: James the Brit on June 02, 2008, 09:57:49 AM
Yeah Im leaving my flat to go traveling and then back to Singapore. Im not getting the boot from my room. The estate agency is very happy for me to stay in my room  uuuuuuuuuu, as i pay more than a chinese person would. Well thats what my flatmates say. I am the only waiguo in the flat with 11 chinese flat mates. Yes, thats eleven.

The problem seems to be with the cop shop. 

Not getting my deposit back either.  asasasasas
Title: Re: A Hard Rain's Gonna Fall... (THE VISA NIGHTMARE!)
Post by: Lotus Eater on June 02, 2008, 10:15:39 AM
You are clearly NOT in the category of "I will NOT share an apartment".  ahahahahah
Title: Re: A Hard Rain's Gonna Fall... (THE VISA NIGHTMARE!)
Post by: icebear on June 02, 2008, 03:31:35 PM
Problem with mine is the landlord might not 'legally' own the apartment, that is have the official paperwork for it convenient. He said he could rustle it up but like most paperwork in China it takes some guanxi and work which slows the process for a measly reason like a foreigner like me. The problem is I get free rent more than half the time, nice apartment, will be seriously bummed if I have to move out during the Olympic frenzy.
Title: Re: A Hard Rain's Gonna Fall... (THE VISA NIGHTMARE!)
Post by: Raoul F. Duke on June 02, 2008, 08:04:35 PM
I'm tired to death and won't go into as much detail as I'd planned, but I found a look at some Chinese Consulate web sites to be interesting. You can find links to purty much every damn Chinese Consulate in the world in one of the entries of our Links page.
NOTE THAT THESE RULES AREN'T CONSISTENT...THEY VARY FROM ONE CONSULATE TO ANOTHER, EVEN IN THE SAME COUNTRY!

From what I saw:

- Looks like application by mail is history. No mas. They claim it's a post-9/11 anti-terrorism move.

- Looks like you can still have someone else you trust with the personal info and a Chinese visa application form set ( aoaoaoaoao ), like a friend, family member, travel agent, etc. can still apply on your behalf, so you may not have to actually go there yourself. axaxaxaxax

- The Chinese Consulate in HK is apparently now issuing visas ONLY for HK residents.

- The issue of re-entry and renewals remains cloudy. SOME TYPES of visa can get a limited number renewals fairly easily, but the Consular sites are all pretty quiet about this beyond saying it's basically at the discretion of the Consulate officials.
God help us. aoaoaoaoao  Got the impression that having compelling, demonstrable reasons- in advance- will help a lot with these.

- Visas other than 1-monthers or contract-bound Z visas are pretty much extinct except for some special cases such as students or spouses.
Oh, to be a student again... llllllllll
Again, sometimes there is hope of getting at least one renewal fairly easily.

- This may be the scariest one of all. It may seem hard to believe from the careful, diligent, efficient Chinese, but some of the info on these Consulate sites is...DODGY! aoaoaoaoao  Obviously goofy, and/or directly contradicted on other Consulate sites...or sometimes even within the SAME site. For example: Some Consulate sites tell you that if your plans are extended from what you originally planned and filed, the best thing to do is nip over to HK and get a new visa. At the same time, the Consulate in HK is now stating clearly that they only do visas for Hong Kongers, and gweilo shouldn't even think about  trying to come there to get a visa.
So, do your homework well. Even if the textbooks given you to study from are wrong. llllllllll

James da B-man and Ice-B, sorry to hear about your situations... alalalalal

Icebear say:
Quote
Yes, it is shaping up to look like quite the hard rain.
Sho'nuff. What scares me is that I strongly suspect that an awful lot of expats here- and a lot of Chinese schools- still have little or no idea what's really coming towards them...
Title: Re: A Hard Rain's Gonna Fall... (THE VISA NIGHTMARE!)
Post by: cheekygal on June 03, 2008, 12:54:56 AM
In Beijing they aren't issuing the student visas anymore. Apparently, even those students who have visas are asked to go home.
Title: Re: A Hard Rain's Gonna Fall... (THE VISA NIGHTMARE!)
Post by: Schnerby on June 03, 2008, 01:02:55 AM
Chinese consulate in Melbourne is staffed with the most grumpy, unhelpful collection of rotting carcases I have ever had the pleasure of meeting.  dddddddddd

Having said that they gave me the papers to lodge by mail.

Go figure  bibibibibi
Title: Re: A Hard Rain's Gonna Fall... (THE VISA NIGHTMARE!)
Post by: Escaped Lunatic on June 03, 2008, 02:09:06 AM
And the Chinese Embassy in the US still lists 24 month, multiple entry F and L visas.   mmmmmmmmmm
Title: Re: A Hard Rain's Gonna Fall... (THE VISA NIGHTMARE!)
Post by: DaDan on June 03, 2008, 10:16:13 AM
L visa May 2nd,  got the 90 day doubly 30 day entry L or tourist visa. $1600HK for U. S. passport

Just made a trip to Hong Kong, Kawloon, went & got new visa, talked with a gent with a British passport & he paid 1250 for the same visa.
There was a $100hk fee for dummy plane ticket & hotel reservations, included in the 1600, have heard some HK agents don’t charge the 100 extra.
My place says if in by 11am, can pick up next day 12:30 – 1:00 (I did). In before 3pm can get the next day tween 5 & 6.
I only gave my passport & one photo, they did the rest, dang near positive it’s a legit visa as I just passed through Luohu a few hours ago.

My heart sank when the currier handed the agent 5 or 6  passports saying  “one got declined”… not sure the story, I shoulda asked but was in a rush to get the 1:15 ferry back to Shekou,  which I missed.

I’ve heard first hand of 3 different agents getting the 90 day tourist visa good for 2-30 day entries for U.S. & British, looks like many of the usual travel / visa agents Can get for the top 7 or 8 countries.

In the travel office was a sign listing countries they Can’t get the visa for, long list that excluded any of the top countries, too many for me to remember.  I have a couple HK agent numbers if someone needs, PM me.

Departing in Shekou yesterday, at the ferry port, they scanned my lightly packed bag, along with Everything people were carrying. I had a bundle of pink notes in mine, they pulled me out of line, looked in my bag & asked `how much? Then they said Only 20,000 RMB was allowed each time out leaving China, but, they’ll let me through with my 30k, but next time I need to be careful to pay attention & let they me through.
A Normal uneventful entry back through Luohu at 2pm today, seemed quiet though.

Heard rumor U.S. passports being declined the one year multy visa, In the states as of 8 days ago, `hope not.
I’m good till August with this one, gonna wait till then to know what / how my next visa will be.


Quote
In Beijing they aren't issuing the student visas anymore. Apparently, even those students who have visas are asked to go home.

Cheeky,
the students are being "asked" to go...
is that only for the summer holiday, game time?
Title: Re: A Hard Rain's Gonna Fall... (THE VISA NIGHTMARE!)
Post by: cheekygal on June 03, 2008, 11:59:48 AM
Just this year, for game time. My friends tried to get a visa done for their son whom they wanted to put through a summer course followed by regular classes from September. They phoned 6 or 7 biggest unis and all of the refused to process visas here (which was possible before) and only couple of them offered to give an invitation letter for the upcoming academic year.
Title: Re: A Hard Rain's Gonna Fall... (THE VISA NIGHTMARE!)
Post by: Raoul F. Duke on June 03, 2008, 12:34:52 PM
Chinese consulate in Melbourne is staffed with the most grumpy, unhelpful collection of rotting carcases I have ever had the pleasure of meeting.

Ah. Excellent. Good to see that Chinese bureaucracy culture is being exported unaltered and intact. A great warmup for coming here to live. You should see the ones that DIDN'T get selscted to go to a nice Western country... aoaoaoaoao
This really kinda depends, in reality. The fine folks at the Exit/Entry Bureau in Suzhou's SIP are the biggest load of hostile, chip-shouldered, xenophobic, inert, bloody-minded goons you'd ever care to not meet. Their counterparts in the small Zhejiang city from whence my Spoose visa came were friendly, helpful, and open-minded. Another "go figure"...

The follow-up posts seem to reinforce how dodgy and unreliable the info even on the Consulates' own sites have become. It's descended into madness.
Title: Re: A Hard Rain's Gonna Fall... (THE VISA NIGHTMARE!)
Post by: George on June 03, 2008, 02:17:09 PM
Quote
Chinese consulate in Melbourne is staffed with the most grumpy, unhelpful collection of rotting carcases I have ever had the pleasure of meeting.
Funny! When I went there in 2002, they were very nice and helpful. Visa back the same afternoon.
Title: Re: A Hard Rain's Gonna Fall... (THE VISA NIGHTMARE!)
Post by: Raoul F. Duke on June 03, 2008, 02:25:20 PM
Funny! When I went there in 2002, they were very nice and helpful. Visa back the same afternoon.

Maybe that group is about to get rotated back home now. uuuuuuuuuu
Title: Re: A Hard Rain's Gonna Fall... (THE VISA NIGHTMARE!)
Post by: Lotus Eater on June 03, 2008, 02:47:20 PM
Darling daughter left her visa application too late at Christmas time, and they did it for her the day before she left - 3 hour turn-around, in Brisbane.
Title: Re: A Hard Rain's Gonna Fall... (THE VISA NIGHTMARE!)
Post by: non-dave on June 04, 2008, 12:30:12 AM
On a sightly different tack - and perhaps only of interest to the Aussies in the south - I had reason to go to the Australian consulate in Guangzhou to get some documents witnessed for my wedding. Only got the documents the day before we were leaving to fly to Harbin and struck traffic problems on the way from Dongguan to Guangzhou. They only witness documents for a few hours each afternoon, closing at 4pm. We got there at 5.30pm.

Now, being somewhat experienced with government bureaucracies, I had extremely low expectations of getting what I needed. I did call them before closing time and they said to keep coming, they'd see what they could do, but the Consul (who does the witnessing) was leaving early that day. 

When we finally arrived - an hour and a half after the office closed - they were waiting and the two Chinese staffers were incredibly helpful. They had told the Consul my problem and he had cut short an official engagement to return and sign the papers for me.

That kind of service wasn't expected but it was appreciated. Not all consulates are filled with sullen, oxygen-thieving food tubes. The Aussie consulate in Guangzhou is a good one!
Title: Re: A Hard Rain's Gonna Fall... (THE VISA NIGHTMARE!)
Post by: Schnerby on June 04, 2008, 12:40:53 AM
Quote
Chinese consulate in Melbourne is staffed with the most grumpy, unhelpful collection of rotting carcases I have ever had the pleasure of meeting.
Funny! When I went there in 2002, they were very nice and helpful. Visa back the same afternoon.

Do you really have to tease me like that?  llllllllll

It may have something to do with the recent protesters about that certain mountain region though. But they cleared off weeks ago so as not to inconvenience the affluent (effluent) neighbours any further.
Title: Re: A Hard Rain's Gonna Fall... (THE VISA NIGHTMARE!)
Post by: Lotus Eater on June 06, 2008, 04:50:14 AM
So does this mean that those people now here on spouse visas won't be able to get divorced? RD and his typhoon are forever wed?
Title: Re: A Hard Rain's Gonna Fall... (THE VISA NIGHTMARE!)
Post by: Raoul F. Duke on June 06, 2008, 07:24:11 AM
Uh...if you don't have a visa that lets you enter China, how would you ever get to a PSB office here in the first place? mmmmmmmmmm  Stamping them suckers as you enter is the normal routine; as we all know, nothing in China is worth a tinker's dam until it has a red stamp or two on it. bjbjbjbjbj

But it is important to clearly remember the exact date you first entered China...if it's not stamped on the visa in your passport, as Missi sagely indicates, then you will be asked this every time you seek new documents. In my case, my original passport was stolen several years ago, so I've always had to provide it.
Those already here know all too well: Just because every bureau office in China has computers and internet connections, doesn't mean they actually are able to talk to each other or share information. It's apparently impossible to look up any record here...

If you have a Spoose visa, and get divorced, the visa should be good until it expires...but of course you won't be able to get a renewal if you're not still legally married.
Which is why I'm already making arrangements for a regular Work/Residence Permit. uuuuuuuuuu
Title: Re: A Hard Rain's Gonna Fall... (THE VISA NIGHTMARE!)
Post by: Ruth on June 06, 2008, 10:53:08 PM
Uh...if you don't have a visa that lets you enter China, how would you ever get to a PSB office here in the first place? mmmmmmmmmm  Stamping them suckers as you enter is the normal routine;

I'm going to be in that situation as soon as I get my shiny new visa.  Missi's warning was well heeded and I could see myself stuck without that proof had she not shared that tidbit of wisdom.  I just got my new passport and it's currently devoid of any visa.  Soon (she types with hope in her fingers) it will have a new Z visa.  THAT visa will NOT have an entry stamp in it.  If I traveled with only my new passport, I could be stuck at a hotel registration desk or PSB office trying to explain how and when I entered China.  So, for now, I guess I travel with my cancelled passport as well, which DOES have an entry stamp.

Commercial break:  blblblblbl  Gotta praise the fine folks at the Guangzhou US consulate.  They responded immediately to questions asked by email.  We arrived with photos and completed forms (downloaded) and a handful of money.  A half hour, in and out, to submit the forms, swear all info was correct, and part with money.  Ten working days later, as promised, another in and out (15 minutes this time) to pick up new passports.  They punched holes in all but the page with my current visa and returned that now-cancelled passport to me along with my shiny new one.  Polite, efficient.  Wonderful to witness and be served by.  And they speak a language I understand!

Now back to our regularly scheduled topic...
Title: Re: A Hard Rain's Gonna Fall... (THE VISA NIGHTMARE!)
Post by: cheekygal on June 07, 2008, 09:08:51 AM
I dont know how the US Embassy works in that regard, but Russian Embassy does what they call passport legalization (they write something in your passport) and once you go back to your country you must have another legalization of your passport. Basically for now you always have to carry two passports around with you - the old one for the stamp and the new one with the new visa. The problem with new passports isnt a new one - it's always been like that. But I believe they will be checking it more strictly.
Title: Re: A Hard Rain's Gonna Fall... (THE VISA NIGHTMARE!)
Post by: dragonsaver on June 07, 2008, 09:11:20 AM
The young Korean lad I tutor on the weekend said one of his teachers at the Academy was from Mexico and had to go back as he couldn't get a visa.  bibibibibi All his other teachers are from America and Canada.
Title: Re: A Hard Rain's Gonna Fall... (THE VISA NIGHTMARE!)
Post by: Raoul F. Duke on June 07, 2008, 09:55:07 AM
I just got my new passport and it's currently devoid of any visa.  Soon it will have a new Z visa.  THAT visa will NOT have an entry stamp in it.  If I traveled with only my new passport, I could be stuck at a hotel registration desk or PSB office trying to explain how and when I entered China.  So, for now, I guess I travel with my cancelled passport as well, which DOES have an entry stamp.

Yeah...one bad thing about visa-update time...can't travel. The System holds your passport for a while even without the other issues.

It was hard to tell what specific situation was being originally addressed...
If you're just entering China, this stuff is critical. If you're already here and have demonstrable proof of being in the visa process, not a problem. All you really need to do is remember the entry date. Ya doesn't has ta carry the old one around too.

Even a Chinese Bureau drone can (usually) understand the concept of replaced passports. My original passport was stolen...I don't have an entry stamp to show them anymore. I simply tell them this, give them the date, and it's always worked. The functionary has a pigeon to put in the indicated hole, and is one step closer to getting you gone so they can eat rice and qing cai and take a nap, and so they are happy. bfbfbfbfbf

(If your passport is lost or stolen, there are procedures that have to be followed. Find out what they are (wake your FAO) and follow them please!)

As for hotels...you shouldn't ever be asked for an entry date there. As long as your visa is presented and valid, they're cool.
Your and Crippler's well-known reputation for throwing wild parties and trashing hotel rooms will be a much bigger issue. ahahahahah
Title: Re: A Hard Rain's Gonna Fall... (THE VISA NIGHTMARE!)
Post by: Ruth on June 07, 2008, 02:06:53 PM
Yeah, that's us.  The party animals. ::)

Now, once again, back to our regularly scheduled thread.  Which seems to be that nobody knows what the heck is going on except lotsa folks are leaving the country.
Title: Re: A Hard Rain's Gonna Fall... (THE VISA NIGHTMARE!)
Post by: cheekygal on June 07, 2008, 02:43:25 PM
Quote
As for hotels...you shouldn't ever be asked for an entry date there.

Depends on a hotel. Home Inns in Beijing do ask for the entry date. But then again, it is apparently some new regulation. Our best man for the wedding has a new US passport and while checking into Home Inn he was asked for the entry stamp. He got away with I-left-my-passport-at-home and the fact that he is a US citizen (perhaps).
Title: Re: A Hard Rain's Gonna Fall... (THE VISA NIGHTMARE!)
Post by: Raoul F. Duke on June 07, 2008, 09:11:57 PM
Whoa...that's a new one for me. It IS getting weirder out there... ssssssssss

I wonder if the type of visa might make a difference? I've never had anything but a Res Permit for very long...maybe they only do this for shorter-term visas?

Quote
Yeah, that's us.  The party animals.


Uh-oh...this sounds like a job for...Tequila Man! Up, up and gan-beeeeeiiii....
Title: Re: A Hard Rain's Gonna Fall... (THE VISA NIGHTMARE!)
Post by: DaDan on June 08, 2008, 02:15:35 AM
Have a copy of your passport front page, your visa And your entry stamp.


Most hotels will ask for your entry date, if they don't... they forgot.

If you do the visa yourself, you'll get a receipt type paper from the psb showing they have yer passport, that & a copy is enough for most hotels to check you in.

The Suzhou psb even gave me a 5 day visa paper once while mine was in their hands as my visa expired before they would have it back to me.
Title: Re: A Hard Rain's Gonna Fall... (THE VISA NIGHTMARE!)
Post by: AMonk on June 08, 2008, 03:24:06 AM
DaDan, what happened with your renewal?  Did all go as you wanted?
Title: Re: A Hard Rain's Gonna Fall... (THE VISA NIGHTMARE!)
Post by: cheekygal on June 08, 2008, 04:07:34 AM
RD, it doesn't matter what type of visa you have. If they ask to register now every time you move around China despite you already having registration at your regular place, then they'll definitely ask for your entry stamp and so on. Anyway, may be some places still don't ask. Like now in Zhuhai, they just took a copy of my passport's front page with picture. They didn't ask for visa nor stamps.

But THEY WONT CHECK YOU IN IF YOU ONLY HAVE A COPY OF YOUR PASSPORT-VISA-ENTRY STAMP. If your passport is in PSB for visa renewal, you must get an official yellow paper from then that for the time being replaces your passport and allows you traveling and checking into the hotels.

So, better be prepared and have all your documents in order and of course know where the entry stamp is. I have my current visa page labeled because I just have too many visas in my passport.
Title: Re: A Hard Rain's Gonna Fall... (THE VISA NIGHTMARE!)
Post by: Raoul F. Duke on June 08, 2008, 01:07:16 PM
Weird. I've never, never, never been asked this in any setting except visa-related matters. I'm not quite the nomad Dan is, but I been around a bit...

Perhaps they are just cowed into submission by my manly swagger. ahahahahah
Title: Re: A Hard Rain's Gonna Fall... (THE VISA NIGHTMARE!)
Post by: becster79 on June 09, 2008, 12:40:25 AM
Well my current Res Permit expires 23 August, and I'm changing schools. I've been told to come back at least a week (I will make it about 2) before it expires and will get the ball rolling with meds etc.

Thing is, on my entry card, which address do I put down? The address of my new school (I will have contract and paperwork and all to throw in their faces if need be) or the one of my OLD school, the sponsor of this current visa?
Title: Re: A Hard Rain's Gonna Fall... (THE VISA NIGHTMARE!)
Post by: Lotus Eater on June 09, 2008, 12:42:36 AM
Your old school is sponsoring the new visa even though you will no longer work for them??  Why wouldn't your new school be the visa sponsor??
Title: Re: A Hard Rain's Gonna Fall... (THE VISA NIGHTMARE!)
Post by: becster79 on June 09, 2008, 02:34:54 AM
Because it's in a different province and there just isn't any time to go doing the medical now and getting the visa before I leave...
Title: Re: A Hard Rain's Gonna Fall... (THE VISA NIGHTMARE!)
Post by: DaDan on June 09, 2008, 03:32:12 AM
often, hotel front desk folk will have me fill out the form they turn in to the coppers at night, same form most places now & the past years, some fill it in as their job discription implies.
There IS a box asking for entry date on the hotel regestration form.

I've found many hotels in touristy places often won't fully fill out the form, some don't even copy passport front page, but by written law, they are suposed to.
In Zhuhai once, the desk guy came to my room a few hours after I checked in to tell me the psb said my visa is Way expired, turned out when he filled in the form, he wrote an ols visa number, `just wrote the first one he opened to. He changed visa numbers on the form & left.
He never wrote entry date on the form.

I had one stamp that was unreadably 3 months last year, I just told them a date by looking at my visa issue date, I entered next day, worked fine, but the stamp was there to not read.


My current visa issued June 2 was very simple to get in HK, next day service.
Title: Re: A Hard Rain's Gonna Fall... (THE VISA NIGHTMARE!)
Post by: James the Brit on June 09, 2008, 06:55:30 AM
From my experiences in the past week, they ask for entry date at hotels. This is the case in Qingdao and Dalian. Keep an eye on them when they fill out those forms or ask to do it yourserlf as they might just fill them in using the information from an old visa which has expired. Thats what happened to me in Dalian. I had to show them my new visa and the receptionist had to start over.
Title: Re: A Hard Rain's Gonna Fall... (THE VISA NIGHTMARE!)
Post by: adamsmith on June 09, 2008, 07:03:18 AM
I have yet to be asked for an entry date, except when I renewed my rez permit. I am spending every weekend in Hotels here in Jinan. I dont even know when I entered, life back then was such a haze and I have replaced my passport since then. Hope no one starts asking soon.
Title: Re: A Hard Rain's Gonna Fall... (THE VISA NIGHTMARE!)
Post by: Nolefan on June 09, 2008, 12:49:09 PM

I recall being consistently asked for my entry date over the past year and half, especially in Hebei Province. Last time i was down in Suzhou however, they couldn't seem to care less
Title: Re: A Hard Rain's Gonna Fall... (THE VISA NIGHTMARE!)
Post by: Raoul F. Duke on June 09, 2008, 04:44:35 PM
Nah. We gots better things to do here. jjjjjjjjjj iiiiiiiiii afafafafaf uuuuuuuuuu

But I've been to hotels all over...Qingdao, Dalian, Anshan, Changchun, Beijing, Wuxi, Jilin and Liaoning Provinces, Hunan Province, Zhejiang Province, and more. Never been asked for this anywhere... mmmmmmmmmm

But hey...a good friend just easily got a visa from a place whose very own official website say it just ain't happenin'. The world is going mad... ssssssssss

Except of course for China, which was barking mad from the very beginning anyway. bfbfbfbfbf agagagagag
Title: Re: A Hard Rain's Gonna Fall... (THE VISA NIGHTMARE!)
Post by: James the Brit on June 10, 2008, 07:26:03 AM
Except of course for China, which was barking mad from the very beginning anyway. bfbfbfbfbf agagagagag

 ahahahahah ahahahahah
Title: Re: A Hard Rain's Gonna Fall... (THE VISA NIGHTMARE!)
Post by: Senor Boogie Woogie on June 11, 2008, 12:27:53 AM

I have gotten the question, "When did you enter China," when checking into a hotel in the past, which seems to me one of those useless, illogical questions that Chinese like to ask from time to time.

Now, I tell them 2005, because this is the last time that I came back from vacation in Vietnam, although China has been my home since 2001.

Senor
Title: Re: A Hard Rain's Gonna Fall... (THE VISA NIGHTMARE!)
Post by: DWA on June 12, 2008, 03:17:38 PM
Update about Inner Mongolia Z Visa.....for anyone moving to teach this year....

I regularly chat with the Director of the Foreign Language Dept at college in Tongliao who told me today that  ""because of the Olympic Games, it is a little troublesome to get foreign expert certificate approved by the Inner Mongolian government, and we have asked the local police station to make sure when we can do that.""

So,the Foreign Teachers they have lined up are due a real deal.....most likely.  I don't know how much clout the FAO Director has or if he is due any "favors"!!! but could be tricky!!!

An aside here....somewhere I remember seeing or hearing that the Inner Mongolia University for the Nationalities in Tongliao http://www.imun.eu.cn is the only legal game in town......that true??

When I hear more, will let everyone know.....
Title: Re: A Hard Rain's Gonna Fall... (THE VISA NIGHTMARE!)
Post by: Lotus Eater on June 12, 2008, 10:46:56 PM
If you are trying to get friends or family over here for holidays, what I have found works is to send 2 invitations to them - one stating that they will be staying with you and that one includes copies of residence permit and passport.  The 2nd invitation stated that they would stay at a hotel (and the FAO gave me a dodgy booking form for the uni hotel!).  Both invitations had a detailed itinerary stating what we would be doing each day.  This however could become exceptionally flexible once he arrives here.  ahahahahah ahahahahah ahahahahah

They can take in the invitation and accompanying paperwork that they feel their local consulate will accept.
Title: Re: A Hard Rain's Gonna Fall... (THE VISA NIGHTMARE!)
Post by: latefordinner on June 12, 2008, 11:05:25 PM
LE, you have definitely learned how to play
Title: Re: A Hard Rain's Gonna Fall... (THE VISA NIGHTMARE!)
Post by: Lotus Eater on June 13, 2008, 03:55:55 AM
Not just us having problems.


Austrade to fight Olympic visa cuts

   
Glenda Korporaal | June 13, 2008

THE federal Government's trade promotion arm Austrade will protest to China over a crackdown on the issue of visas to foreigners, which is hampering relations in the lead-up to the Beijing Olympic Games.

The crackdown, prompted by security concerns and the fear of human rights protesters entering China, was disrupting Australian business travel to the country, Austrade chief executive Peter O'Byrne said last night.

"We understand the visa tightening is driven by security concerns around the Beijing 2008 Olympic Games, but it also affects business beyond this period," Mr O'Byrne said.

Austrade has plans for a big campaign in Beijing during the Olympics to promote business ties between Australia and China. Called Business Club Australia, the program will involve hundreds of Australian business people from a range of industries.

Australian corporations including Macquarie Group, BHP Billiton and Telstra have plans for corporate events to be held during the Games.

Chinese Olympic organisers have warned that buying a ticket to the Games will not guarantee a visa.

"We are taking up this matter with the Chinese embassy on behalf of the Australian business community, which includes business travellers to the Olympics and Austrade's Business Club Australia program," Mr O'Byrne said.

Beijing's unprecedented move comes as Games broadcasters reach boiling point with Chinese Olympic organisers in trying to resolve key logistical issues for their coverage.

Olympic host broadcasters say China's increasing security concerns and bureaucracy are hobbling their preparations.

International Olympic Committee president Jacques Rogge is set to discuss the issues with senior IOC officials in Lausanne next week.

Australia's senior IOC member, Kevan Gosper, warned yesterday that the Beijing Olympics risked a backlash similar to the 1996 Atlanta Games if China failed to resolve significant problems affecting host television broadcasters.

The Australian reported yesterday that broadcasters, including the Seven Network, had crisis talks with Olympic organisers to resolve issues relating to filming in Tiananmen Square, accreditation for key personnel, official lockdown dates, importing broadcasting equipment, movement of workers and equipment and uninterrupted mobile phone services.

In minutes of the meetings obtained by The Australian, Scott Moore from Canadian broadcaster CBC said the inability to report live from Tiananmen was "a disgrace".

"I've been told that to do business in China, you have to have patience," Mr Moore said.

"We don't have time to have patience."

Seven has refused to comment on meetings in Beijing at which key executives vented their frustration and concerns about China's failure to deliver on its promises, and the layers of oppressive security and bureaucracy it was imposing.
Title: Re: A Hard Rain's Gonna Fall... (THE VISA NIGHTMARE!)
Post by: becster79 on June 13, 2008, 04:05:19 AM
The didn't really think working with the Chinese was going to be that easy, surely? Surely? ahahahahah

"We don't have time to have patience."

 ahahahahah ahahahahah ahahahahah
Title: Re: A Hard Rain's Gonna Fall... (THE VISA NIGHTMARE!)
Post by: Wags on June 13, 2008, 11:00:23 PM
The didn't really think working with the Chinese was going to be that easy, surely? Surely? ahahahahah

"We don't have time to have patience."

 ahahahahah ahahahahah ahahahahah

 agagagagag well said Becster, I'm sure they have the time because they want the money  ahahahahah ahahahahah ahahahahah
Title: Re: A Hard Rain's Gonna Fall... (THE VISA NIGHTMARE!)
Post by: Lotus Eater on June 13, 2008, 11:09:44 PM
Isn't it the media networks GIVING money to the Chinese Gov't for the rights to broadcast?  I thought their own money came in advertising during the Games broadcast.

The more difficult the Chinese Gov't makes it for people to come here during the Games the fewer people will come and the less money there will be coming into the country.   This one definitely wasn't thought through before bidding for the Games.  ahahahahah ahahahahah
Title: Re: A Hard Rain's Gonna Fall... (THE VISA NIGHTMARE!)
Post by: contemporarydog on June 14, 2008, 12:10:07 AM
I think it's an attempt by China to head the Olympic Boycotters off at the pass by shooting itself in the foot before the boycotters can shoot them in the head.  Or something.
Title: Re: A Hard Rain's Gonna Fall... (THE VISA NIGHTMARE!)
Post by: Shroomy on June 14, 2008, 02:23:32 AM
I think CD's got it figured out, if only he had a little more coffee in him.  ahahahahah
Title: Re: A Hard Rain's Gonna Fall... (THE VISA NIGHTMARE!)
Post by: DWA on June 16, 2008, 09:29:34 AM
I have been working with a University in Tongliao, Inner Mongolia for over a month resolving questions.....mainly theirs.....and finally ws convinced I had covered all the necesary bases. I signed the paperwork and EMS'd it back this morning and also emailed it. My call advising them of my actions was well received and we discussed moving and several other dutious details.  There was no mention of any problems obtaining correct Visa and Permits....I even asked the question !!

Less than an hour ago, I received an email from the FAO Director that the Police told him this morning they will issue no new Z Visa or Residency permits until mid to late September and all is shown to be clear from the Big Games.

Imagine my angst !!!  So I have been burning up the phone finding out what they can do. I even asked it they are owed any favors for anything which they might use.

So much for the "Big Game Syndrome".....and like has been posted here by many.

Disgrunted and still searching.....Damn games
Title: Re: A Hard Rain's Gonna Fall... (THE VISA NIGHTMARE!)
Post by: Nolefan on June 16, 2008, 09:42:46 AM

hum... sorry to hear about your ordeal...

In Beijing, thins are slowly improving.. visa agents are coming back out of the woodwork and there are multiple reports of even F visa being issued to last til end of october.
No problem or whatsoever as far as residence permits go.
Title: Re: A Hard Rain's Gonna Fall... (THE VISA NIGHTMARE!)
Post by: cheekygal on June 16, 2008, 09:45:42 AM
Residence permits aren't a problem in fact. Especially if you already have one. If you don't, they will send you to HK or back home with an invitation letter. Don't know about the rest. May be IM is more tough cause it is right on the border with Russia. My mom who lives 2 hours drive from the border with Manchuria used to get 1 year L visa. Then it turned to 1 month. Then to 5 days. Currently they are only letting people in if they are on this special tourist list. Or shoppers list. They said after the Games the things will resume to normal.
Title: Re: A Hard Rain's Gonna Fall... (THE VISA NIGHTMARE!)
Post by: DWA on June 16, 2008, 01:28:15 PM
Thought this might be of interest......

2008 Beijing Olympic Games comes, Chinese government tighten the visa policy?

Posted By: GDCEIA <support@abroadchina.org>
Date: Sunday, 15 June 2008, at 7:06 a.m.

First, you should know all those visa restrictions are for the Olympic Games. From April till October, to due to the 2008 Beijing Olympic Games, The Entry and Exit Administration Bureau of the Ministry of Public Security tighten the visa policy. According to that, now the paperwork you have to prepare are more complicated than before, for example if you don't reside or work in Hong Kong permanently, applicant may can not get Z visa(work) in Hong Kong as normal during Olympic Games. You are required to apply Chinese visa from the China Embassy in your resident country. More details, Please check Government site (http://www.fmcoprc.gov.hk/eng/zgqz/bgfwxx/default.htm)

Second, those work visa holders should go through the procedure for obtaining residence permit in the local public security bureau of China within 30 days from the date of your entry. So we suggest you should plan your entry scheduling carefully.

Besides, you must know more details of the background about your employer, before you go to China.

Important advice: Do not believe advertisement easily!

In order to recruit foreign teachers to teach in their schools, the schools must pass strict government requirements as to employ foreign teachers. They should be granted by the government the rights. Some employers in China, whom have no license for hiring foreign teacher, still hope you will work for them. They can not apply for a working permit for you, so you will have trouble if your traveling visa expires. Usually, your employer will tell you to leave China for a few days, or go to neighboring area such as Hong Kong, you need to extends your traveling visa, then back to China to continue working for them. In China, it is illegal if a foreigner has a job without a working visa and work permitting.

To work legally, you need to get a work visa (z-visa). For a foreign teacher, it is virtually important to be aware of which school is illegal and which is legal in order to make a nice living and teaching in China.

* The following eligible schools still need English teachers, where you can guarantee the safety of legitimate work and life.    {{{I removed the ad listings}}}

Title: Re: A Hard Rain's Gonna Fall... (THE VISA NIGHTMARE!)
Post by: DWA on June 16, 2008, 02:08:51 PM
Also,  One issue I've not seen talked about {{If it was, I musta been far too high to have understood what I actually thought I read!!}} is:   When the current School cancels my Expert Certificate, how much time do I have to get the new Permit?  I am far from expert in any of this issue.....it's as clear as a bucket of S**T !!  From what I understand, I can't get a Residency permit without a Z Visa, and can't get a Z Visa without having a residency permit!!!!

For those of you out there with lots of experience.......THANK YOU VERY MUCH !  jjjjjjjjjj
Title: Re: A Hard Rain's Gonna Fall... (THE VISA NIGHTMARE!)
Post by: cheekygal on June 16, 2008, 02:41:57 PM
I think that if you get a new job before your contract with the school expires, you can send a copy of your current visa/residency to the new school and from the previous school you need a release letter. That should settle it. Cause the current school when applying for your residency cancellation has to give you something like 2 weeks to 1 month (your annual vacation) to sort out your affairs.
Also, Missi is a good source as she's been working on her move recently.
Title: Re: A Hard Rain's Gonna Fall... (THE VISA NIGHTMARE!)
Post by: DWA on June 16, 2008, 09:12:46 PM
THANKS  afafafafaf Cheekygal....what I'm finding is that the legal/permit issues in moving vs initial/first job are different. AND....where you are located.  I know that Inner Mongolia is very different.  The school to which I applied apparently has a "limp" FAO director because he simply told me on the phone there was nothing he could do, his hands were tied. When I mentioned "calling in some favors" he sounded offended, like I  asked him to cheat !

Hello Missi.......pls PM me about moving to another school issues. Several things are on my mind.........[Oh!, sorry, did I say 'mind'???, musta been dreamin' llllllllll]

I heard or read somewhere that I can have the current school void my Expert Certificate and I can actually keep the red book.  Normally, they simply take it and I have nothing.
Is this true?

T H A N K S  ~~~~!
***two heads are better than one, even if one is a cabbage head ~~~
Title: Re: A Hard Rain's Gonna Fall... (THE VISA NIGHTMARE!)
Post by: Raoul F. Duke on June 16, 2008, 11:24:34 PM
For most people, residence permits won't be a problem...if you work for a public school or university. It's those that are working for private training centers that have the most to worry over. Some places that have been easily able to get work/residence permits in the past may find themselves suddenly unable to get them...and they may not even be aware of this themselves until the first time someone tries to get one under the new rules.

It won't be too surprising if things loosen up on F visas...a number of key trading partner nations have complained to the Chinese government. However, they will likely continue to require documentation from a registered foreign company. This will help the business types, but may not have much impact on English teachers and other employees of Chinese companies.

I dunno...I've given up trying to call these things.

Note that the only people who need a Z Visa are those who are still outside China. ANY visa, regardless of type simply constitutes the right to enter China, remain within its borders, and exit within the valid period of the visa. NO visa conveys the right to work for a Chinese company, or establish residence anywhere other than a hotel or officially-designated company housing. Under the letter of Chinese law, the only documents that can do that are the Work Permit (aka "Foreign Expert Certificate") and the Residence Permit, respectively.

The main advantage of the Z Visa is its easy convertability to Work/Residence Permits. Those with other visas still may be able to get the Permits- IF they have the necessary documents from a company legally authorized to hire foreigners and apply for the right documents. It may require more stages and a trip outside of China and back, but it can be done.

The biggest rub for many of us may be the "legally authorized to hire foreigners" bit referred to above. A lot of private schools are themselves not really legal to hire foreign employees, so they buy them from a local university or other organization that DOES have the rights to issue them. In the past, the authorities looked the other way at this practice...but they aren't looking away now.

It's not easy for us to find out if our Permits fall into this category or not. The info is generally in Chinese. Your Permits may bear the name of another company, or show you in a different occupation than teaching. Worst of all, the real info on your permits may exist only on the contracts and other documents actually submitted to the PSB Exit-Entry Bureau...and you will not even know these other contracts exist. This is what just happened in my case...

It's really hard to give reliable advice in these conditions. The best you can do is learn the facts, make it clear to prospective employers that you're only interested in completely-legal papers, and see what plays out in your individual case.
Title: Re: A Hard Rain's Gonna Fall... (THE VISA NIGHTMARE!)
Post by: becster79 on June 17, 2008, 11:57:09 AM
In relation to all this, I wanna ask a stupid question (not sure if anyone know the answer yet though)- I normally come to China through Hong Kong, as it's the cheapest option from Australia. Usually fly in, catch the bus over to Guangzhou, then train or cheapie flight from there to wherever I'm getting to.

Anyone know if this (ie. land crossing) could be out of the q now?
Title: Re: A Hard Rain's Gonna Fall... (THE VISA NIGHTMARE!)
Post by: Raoul F. Duke on June 17, 2008, 11:59:02 PM
Shouldn't be a problem, as long as your visa is in order...
Anyone down there know current status?
Title: Re: A Hard Rain's Gonna Fall... (THE VISA NIGHTMARE!)
Post by: Ruth on June 18, 2008, 12:33:09 AM
Crossed that way going out in January and back in in February.  Again out and in during May holidays.  Not a bit of trouble.  But that was a month ago.  Who knows the closer we get to the Big Event?  As Raoul said, you should be fine if visa is in order.
Title: Re: A Hard Rain's Gonna Fall... (THE VISA NIGHTMARE!)
Post by: DaDan on June 18, 2008, 11:42:13 AM
I did Luohu June 3rd, same as always.

Another option is to get the fast train direct from HongKong to Guangzhou, half the time & simplier border crossing.
I don't know where to get the train in HK but shouldn't be hard to find.
or get through Luohu normal way & get the fast train there. CRT I believe, an hour at around 90 yuan.
Title: Re: A Hard Rain's Gonna Fall... (THE VISA NIGHTMARE!)
Post by: Noodles on June 18, 2008, 03:16:08 PM
I came in on the ferry from hong kong yesterday and the security had definitely been stepped up. There was at least 8 guys there checking peoples luggage, when normally it is just the one nose-picker.
One guy was being quizzed about a book he was carrying, although i didn't see what it was.
Title: Re: A Hard Rain's Gonna Fall... (THE VISA NIGHTMARE!)
Post by: DWA on June 18, 2008, 06:13:25 PM
This might be the wrong place to ask this, but it does somewhat have something to do with visas.....ah shit!!! I know it's late, but I'm gonna anyway:

My Residency Permit expires August 24.  My Contract Expires Sept 10.   If.... the University wants me to stay and "complete" the contract to Sept 10, don't they have to renew the Z Visa to correspond to the contract dates ?   If they don't renew the Z Visa, are they breaking the contract?   

My current uni is being very difficult:  have a signed 12 month contract, and they sent me an email 3 weeks ago saying I'm too old and to seek other employment.  Does that break the contract too? 

Much murky water here....lot of reading between the lines and the FAO is about as hepful as tits on a boar hog!!!

Raoul.......Please, PM me...I have an urgent question on contract language.....thanks
Title: Re: A Hard Rain's Gonna Fall... (THE VISA NIGHTMARE!)
Post by: Lotus Eater on June 18, 2008, 10:33:11 PM
The university should extend your residency permit to the contract completion time - unless they figure that the courses are finished and are prepared to pay you to the end of the contract without you being there. That is holiday time though isn't it?  So they don't need you to be teaching.

If you have already signed another contract with them, then they would be in breach of that contract by telling you to seek other employment.  However, this one is probably not one you will win if they really don't want you.  They will find an area you have breached - not attending an English corner, not abiding by the moral code of china - anything etc  to prove you broke the contract first.
Title: Re: A Hard Rain's Gonna Fall... (THE VISA NIGHTMARE!)
Post by: old34 on June 21, 2008, 10:25:25 AM
It seems that hard rain is about to fall-on the schools. I got some sprinkles today - three deans and one DOS all sent me messages asking if I could recommend anyone to them for next semester for their respective schools. It's like,

"Well classes just ended yesterday, so now what do I need to do next. Oh! prepare next semester's schedule."
[Call FAO]: Hello, Miss/Mr. FAO, what foreign teachers have you lined up for next semester? What! None! Few applicants? New visa issues? Well, OK. Keep trying.
[Send SMS to old34]

I think the visa issues are finally starting to take their toll on the Chinese side.
Title: Re: A Hard Rain's Gonna Fall... (THE VISA NIGHTMARE!)
Post by: Lone Traveller on June 22, 2008, 02:44:04 AM
Well it seems my drama is continuing... (different thread).

The school that I'm supposed to be working with in September has been asked to provide a copy of my medical certificate before they will grant permission to the school for my visa. (This certificate doesn't exist, as yet).

2years ago all I did was sent the letter of inviation from the school along with all appropriate docs to my embassy here in Canberra and the Zvisa was issued without any problems. Now the chinese side in Beijing are saying that a medical is required (here in Australia) and a copy is to be sent to them, they will translate it and then permission is granted to the school to send me the documents i need. Wasn't required before, but ok, I'll go with it. The embassy here told me "that's rubbish - no such doc is required". Anyway, still going with it. Asked the Chinese side what is required to be checked so I can go get it done... "um, not sure. We'll let you know".  asasasasas  llllllllll That was 3 days ago.

School is getting fed up and wanted to try getting a business visa instead at which I reared up and said I would absolutely not accept that.   llllllllll

Still waiting to hear from them. Fingers, toes and everything else is crossed hoping all goes well.
Title: Re: A Hard Rain's Gonna Fall... (THE VISA NIGHTMARE!)
Post by: Mister Barfly on June 22, 2008, 06:44:36 AM
My friend has just managed to get a 2 month tourist visa at the chinese embassy in London.  It is a multi entry however so he will have to go to Hong Kong and then come back in but at least he can stay in China for 2 months.
Title: Re: A Hard Rain's Gonna Fall... (THE VISA NIGHTMARE!)
Post by: cheekygal on June 22, 2008, 07:36:48 AM
LT, you should call up the Chinese Embassy and ask them what sort of medical would be recognized by the Embassy. Then have it done and put a verification stamp at the Embassy and fax it/scan it and send it to your employer. I think it should work - you are abroad and they have to accept the paper accepted by the Embassy.
Title: Re: A Hard Rain's Gonna Fall... (THE VISA NIGHTMARE!)
Post by: Lone Traveller on June 22, 2008, 08:10:35 AM
Thanks for the advise Cheeks. I think I'll do that.
Title: Re: A Hard Rain's Gonna Fall... (THE VISA NIGHTMARE!)
Post by: Escaped Lunatic on June 22, 2008, 06:54:46 PM
Send two email to the visa service I used on my last trip asking about multi-entry visas for next year.  So far, no answer.   mmmmmmmmmm
Title: Re: A Hard Rain's Gonna Fall...
Post by: NOYB on June 23, 2008, 01:14:29 AM
Quote
I am getting a Spouse visa. Even that is proving a challenge

Are you talking about the elusive 'D' visa or is this the spouse 'L' i have heard about.

The "D" visa has been all but totally eliminated.  You must mean the permanent residence permit.  I am sure Raoul is talking about the "L" visa available for spouses of Chinese citizens or permanent residents.
Title: Re: A Hard Rain's Gonna Fall...
Post by: NOYB on June 23, 2008, 01:19:24 AM
New York Times coverage:
http://www.nytimes.com/2008/04/24/world/asia/24china.html?_r=1&ref=todayspaper&oref=slogin

Note that they also mention police cracking down on Beijing bars where drugs are sometimes found. One might want to avoid such places, or exercise more caution if you do go.


 Two weekends ago the police raided Pure Girl, a group of bars on Sanlitun Hou Jie notorious for drugs and fake booze. Most of the Africans I know are now avoiding Sanlitun like the plague. In a lot of parts of Beijing being black these days is enough to to get you beat up and arrested. About a month ago an African was beaten to death in the Wudaokou police station. Keep in mind most of the Africans in WDK are actually foreign students.

And the majority of those aAfricans who are foreign students sell drugs or run the Nigerian 419 Fraud here.  Screw them.  No need for a pity party.
Title: Re: A Hard Rain's Gonna Fall... (THE VISA NIGHTMARE!)
Post by: NOYB on June 23, 2008, 01:34:29 AM
So does this mean that those people now here on spouse visas won't be able to get divorced? RD and his typhoon are forever wed?

You can get divorced and it will not effect the current spousal L visa, but you will not be able to get it renewed.
Title: Re: A Hard Rain's Gonna Fall... (THE VISA NIGHTMARE!)
Post by: Raoul F. Duke on June 23, 2008, 04:07:01 AM
NOYB is on the nosey. My Spouse visa is an L. And it do NOT come with a Work Permit...
And he agrees with what I stated before...a divorce doesn't instantly end a Spouse visa, you just have to find a new way to get documents when your current visa ends.

So: You give me visa, I love you long time. ahahahahah
Title: Re: A Hard Rain's Gonna Fall... (THE VISA NIGHTMARE!)
Post by: Ruth on June 23, 2008, 09:19:28 AM
So you can get her a visa to the US and she can get you a visa to stay in China.  Everyone is happy.
Title: Re: A Hard Rain's Gonna Fall... (THE VISA NIGHTMARE!)
Post by: ericthered on June 23, 2008, 09:22:38 AM
So you can get her a visa to the US and she can get you a visa to stay in China.  Everyone is happy.

Getting a visa to the US is, as far as I understand it, not so easy these days. Not sure about the happy joy-joy feeling experienced by everyone is really going to happen...
Title: Re: A Hard Rain's Gonna Fall... (THE VISA NIGHTMARE!)
Post by: Raoul F. Duke on June 23, 2008, 09:31:54 AM
Yeah...it not easy.
And I'm not too sure I want to send the Typhoon to America.
Despite all my misgivings and worries for it, I do still love my country.  uuuuuuuuuu ahahahahah blblblblbl
Title: Re: A Hard Rain's Gonna Fall... (THE VISA NIGHTMARE!)
Post by: limubai2000 on June 23, 2008, 02:49:17 PM
I got to go to HK 3 times for EF to get my Z visa right. I'm very happy about that, not so happy to be a slave to the man!  But it's all good I guess, at least I work in a corporate school so we are somewhat organized, mostly...

The last 3 teachers that they tried to hire locally in BJ had to fly back to their home countries.

My local police have visited my happy little hutong a few times looking for me and my roommates to check our VISAs on orders from the mythical all powerful "higher ups".  Good thing we drink beer and eat chuar with them regularly!
Title: Re: A Hard Rain's Gonna Fall... (THE VISA NIGHTMARE!)
Post by: mrozark on June 24, 2008, 06:48:00 PM
I guess I had enough of the "corrupt, incompetent, baijiu-swilling buttheads" and left China months ago. When Thailand started playing games with Visas, I was out of there, too.
Malaysia has been great for a while and I go to Singapore tomorrow to check that out.
I'd recommend to anyone that has a choice, don't live in a country where the Visa situation is hostile or unstable unless you are ready to leave at any time.
Title: Re: A Hard Rain's Gonna Fall... (THE VISA NIGHTMARE!)
Post by: technolust on June 24, 2008, 06:58:11 PM
Well, I received my permit etc. from China on monday, went to the embassy tuesday-morning. I don't know what it's like in the rest of the world, but here in The Netherlands you can't make appointments or anything like that, it's first come - first served every day. I guess they do the paperwork in the afternoon, because they're only available from 9.00 to 12.00 in the morning.

So I wrestled my way through the morning rush-hour traffic and arrived very early, expecting to be ridiculed by the guards, but there were at least 20 people waiting in line outside the gate already. Before 9.00am the line had grown to about 50. For the hour or so I spent in the embassy, the line never got shorter.

Of course all my paperwork was in order, except I hadn't enough fotocopies. So they sent me to the lobby upstairs, at the equivalent of 5rmb per copy and everybody needing extra copies I know how the embassy staff pay for their tea. I asked nicely and my visa would be rushed through (at an extra charge, of course) even though on the phone I was told it wouldn't be possible. I'll be in line at 8.15am again to pick up my passport with pretty red stamps in it wednesday, then it's off to China on friday!

Not everyone fared so well, one guy in front off me hadn't filled out an application form (didn't even know he needed one), another had no hotel reservations for his trip, a third got all irritated from waiting. C'mon people, this is the big leagues of beauracracy!
Title: Re: A Hard Rain's Gonna Fall... (THE VISA NIGHTMARE!)
Post by: cheekygal on June 25, 2008, 12:38:17 AM
technolust, sounds just like Russian Embassy  ahahahahah Congrats and have a safe trip to China.
Title: Re: A Hard Rain's Gonna Fall... (THE VISA NIGHTMARE!)
Post by: James the Brit on June 25, 2008, 05:36:22 AM
In relation to all this, I wanna ask a stupid question (not sure if anyone know the answer yet though)- I normally come to China through Hong Kong, as it's the cheapest option from Australia. Usually fly in, catch the bus over to Guangzhou, then train or cheapie flight from there to wherever I'm getting to.

Anyone know if this (ie. land crossing) could be out of the q now?

Did the land crossing today at Luo Hu (sp?). Got waved through all the way. Everyone was very polite on both sides. The Chinese immigration dude looked at my visas for about 2 seconds, looked at me and stamped my passport. HK side: very pretty lady at immigration, very kind, asked me how long I would stay in HK. 3 days. She gave me 6 months.

No worries for customs on either side. Although there was a heavy presence in HK. Mainly loking for Hk ren I think. They were all waiting round that area, not the foreigner side.

Hope this helps.
Title: Re: A Hard Rain's Gonna Fall... (THE VISA NIGHTMARE!)
Post by: Raoul F. Duke on June 25, 2008, 05:37:51 AM
I'd recommend to anyone that has a choice, don't live in a country where the Visa situation is hostile or unstable unless you are ready to leave at any time.

This is very wise advice indeed...but I don't feel that China's visa situation has become hostile. Some individual functionaries related to the process ARE hostile, but they were that way long before the new laws took effect.

As much as we all, including myself, have suffered from these events, it can be easily argued that they are not intended to be punitive, but rather are badly-overdue and much needed reforms. Let's face it, guys...a lot of us have seen considerable benefit from the laxities and loopholes of the old laws, but those in authority and many locals probably don't see these as benefits for them.

A lot of people have been working here illegally. Many of us bitch about "illegal migrant workers" in our home countries; why should we expect the Chinese to make this easy to do forever here?
A lot of people are being hired as teachers who, at least on paper, have no credible argument for being hired as teachers. We've all seen people with no teaching background etc. turn into dynamite teachers, but when examining incoming people "on paper" is about all the Chinese have. I just can't see raising the bar for employment here as being necessarily a bad or hostile thing.
Increasing numbers of people are coming to China and...doing nothing. At least nothing except party and mess the local ladies. I love doing both of those things myself (  afafafafaf ) but at least I earn a near-living and maybe give something back for my presence here. Folks, in the big picture the Chinese don't really want us here in the first place. They just feel that they need us to aid their development. Why should they let foreigners come here to just goof off and raise hell?

I don't LIKE  all the new visa rules myself, but at least up to a point I can't really disagree with them. And I don't see them as the kind of hostile action Mrozark cites.
Title: Re: A Hard Rain's Gonna Fall... (THE VISA NIGHTMARE!)
Post by: Lotus Eater on June 25, 2008, 07:13:34 AM
Friend of mine had been teaching here in the same university for 5 years.  She's headed home at the end of this semester - the call of the Euro is stronger than that of the RMB.

Her visa expires this week - her contract at the end of July.  So university is getting her a tourist visa for her remaining month of work!  She has put in writing that she holds them responsible for any negative consequences of this move!
Title: Re: A Hard Rain's Gonna Fall... (THE VISA NIGHTMARE!)
Post by: Mister Barfly on June 26, 2008, 06:13:15 AM
A friend of mine arrived this week from the UK and he though that they had only given him a 2 month multi entry visa so he would have to leave and come back after a month.  Adter checking it this morning they have actually given him a 4 month double entry visa, so he will have to leave and come back after 2 months.  They are not being a strict as I thought and have heard from other people.
Title: Re: A Hard Rain's Gonna Fall... (THE VISA NIGHTMARE!)
Post by: Lone Traveller on June 26, 2008, 06:15:28 AM
 

Her visa expires this week - her contract at the end of July.  So university is getting her a tourist visa for her remaining month of work!  She has put in writing that she holds them responsible for any negative consequences of this move!

I think that's probably a very wise move on her part.
Title: Re: A Hard Rain's Gonna Fall... (THE VISA NIGHTMARE!)
Post by: Lotus Eater on June 26, 2008, 06:19:14 AM
The tourist visa costs 150Y, the residents permit 400Y - so it is saving people money.  BUT - because the US has made it more expensive for Chinese to go there, the Chinese Gov't has retaliated in kind, and the tourist visas for the USAnians are costing close to 1000Y.
Title: Re: A Hard Rain's Gonna Fall... (THE VISA NIGHTMARE!)
Post by: dragonsaver on June 26, 2008, 09:33:41 AM
I received my new FEC book and passport with new Z visa today.  Both are good until July 31/09.  Foreign Experts book has letters SAFEA,as background on the pages of the book. My blue resident/apartment address paper is glued into the back of my passport.
Title: Re: A Hard Rain's Gonna Fall... (THE VISA NIGHTMARE!)
Post by: Ruth on June 26, 2008, 01:41:28 PM
Wish I had mine.  FAO said "ming tian."
Title: Re: A Hard Rain's Gonna Fall... (THE VISA NIGHTMARE!)
Post by: Raoul F. Duke on June 26, 2008, 04:49:59 PM
Ruth,
How long left on yours?
Title: Re: A Hard Rain's Gonna Fall... (THE VISA NIGHTMARE!)
Post by: mrozark on June 26, 2008, 07:50:24 PM
I'd recommend to anyone that has a choice, don't live in a country where the Visa situation is hostile or unstable unless you are ready to leave at any time.

This is very wise advice indeed...but I don't feel that China's visa situation has become hostile. Some individual functionaries related to the process ARE hostile, but they were that way long before the new laws took effect.

As much as we all, including myself, have suffered from these events, it can be easily argued that they are not intended to be punitive, but rather are badly-overdue and much needed reforms. Let's face it, guys...a lot of us have seen considerable benefit from the laxities and loopholes of the old laws, but those in authority and many locals probably don't see these as benefits for them.

A lot of people have been working here illegally. Many of us bitch about "illegal migrant workers" in our home countries; why should we expect the Chinese to make this easy to do forever here?
A lot of people are being hired as teachers who, at least on paper, have no credible argument for being hired as teachers. We've all seen people with no teaching background etc. turn into dynamite teachers, but when examining incoming people "on paper" is about all the Chinese have. I just can't see raising the bar for employment here as being necessarily a bad or hostile thing.
Increasing numbers of people are coming to China and...doing nothing. At least nothing except party and mess the local ladies. I love doing both of those things myself (  afafafafaf ) but at least I earn a near-living and maybe give something back for my presence here. Folks, in the big picture the Chinese don't really want us here in the first place. They just feel that they need us to aid their development. Why should they let foreigners come here to just goof off and raise hell?

I don't LIKE  all the new visa rules myself, but at least up to a point I can't really disagree with them. And I don't see them as the kind of hostile action Mrozark cites.

Point well taken. And I don't think the visa situation is hostile in China, yet. Not easy for Americans, though. No breeze-through at LuoHu for us. And, although at border crossings around the world I am treated as such: I am not my government.
Having said that, I stand corrected. I guess I've gotten a bit burned out on Asia in general, and its showing up in my conclusions and judgment. Statement withdrawn and replaced with: "I'm tired of Asia."

Title: Re: A Hard Rain's Gonna Fall... (THE VISA NIGHTMARE!)
Post by: Lotus Eater on June 26, 2008, 11:17:57 PM
It's pretty difficult to get visas for many countries - the US in particular if you are Asian or Middle-eastern.  This is not just an Asian phenomena.  I think we come across as a bit arrogant when we figure we should be able to just waltz in to any country and say 'Hey, I'm here, let me in".

Having said that I love travelling in countries where I get the visa at the border, saves so much mafan - although to be fair these are only tourist visas!
Title: Re: A Hard Rain's Gonna Fall... (THE VISA NIGHTMARE!)
Post by: Escaped Lunatic on June 26, 2008, 11:59:06 PM
Send two email to the visa service I used on my last trip asking about multi-entry visas for next year.  So far, no answer.   mmmmmmmmmm

Fascinating.  They answered and claimed that other than a slight increase in paperwork requirements (like round trip tickets), multi-entries were not a problem at all.

This place gets the visas straight from the embassy in DC.  Are they leading me down the primrose path, or do they have an inside track???
Title: Re: A Hard Rain's Gonna Fall... (THE VISA NIGHTMARE!)
Post by: contemporarydog on June 27, 2008, 12:03:41 AM
I love the tit for tat 'this country does this so we'll do it to' thing.

We should be the same.  For instance, all sites like sina, 163, youku, etc, should all be blocked in the UK, for the 'benefit' of Chinese overseas students in Britain.  After all, these sites undermine the glorious reign of Queen Elizabeth 2 and our wonderful stable motherland.
Title: Re: A Hard Rain's Gonna Fall... (THE VISA NIGHTMARE!)
Post by: ericthered on June 27, 2008, 07:03:18 AM
There doesn't seem to be any obstacles re. visa in Denmark. See, we're the happy people, prone to spending oodles of moolah when travelling, so everyone loves us agagagagag agagagagag
I called the Chinese embassy and they said that getting a 1 year multiple entry Z visa would be no problem. Just waiting for those dang documents.
Title: Re: A Hard Rain's Gonna Fall... (THE VISA NIGHTMARE!)
Post by: Lotus Eater on June 27, 2008, 07:23:32 AM
I love the tit for tat 'this country does this so we'll do it to' thing.

We should be the same.  For instance, all sites like sina, 163, youku, etc, should all be blocked in the UK, for the 'benefit' of Chinese overseas students in Britain.  After all, these sites undermine the glorious reign of Queen Elizabeth 2 and our wonderful stable motherland.

Tit for tat doesn't help anyone, but if there is no reciprocity in visas etc - why shouldn't country A apply to same rules to the citizens of country B, if country B applies them to A? 

Blocking sina, 163 etc would have to be for the benefit of British students in Britain.  Our sites in China aren't blocked to prevent us  from being undermined, but to "protect" their own citizenry.  So we would have to block them to prevent British students from seeing the joys of communism!
Title: Re: A Hard Rain's Gonna Fall... (THE VISA NIGHTMARE!)
Post by: Ruth on June 27, 2008, 07:33:11 AM
Ruth,
How long left on yours?

Expired on the 19th.  Started the rounds of PSB offices on the 17th.  Apparently it has been in the third office for one week and that's that amount of time they require, so Ms FAO should be picking it up as I type.  She's not fussed about it.  Her boss says, no problem as long as the process is started before the expiration date.  They aren't the ones sitting here with no visa.
Title: Re: A Hard Rain's Gonna Fall... (THE VISA NIGHTMARE!)
Post by: Raoul F. Duke on June 27, 2008, 07:43:35 AM
I dunno...sometimes tit-for-tat works out OK. Some of it may be helpful or necessary in the long run...the USA in particular has just gotten NUTS when it comes to getting a visa. Maybe if this started going both ways, things would lighten up a little?

Having said that, I stand corrected. I guess I've gotten a bit burned out on Asia in general, and its showing up in my conclusions and judgment. Statement withdrawn and replaced with: "I'm tired of Asia."

No...I agreed with what you said 100%. I just don't think it's necessarily the case in China...yet, anyway. But absolutely no correction implied! bfbfbfbfbf

There doesn't seem to be any obstacles re. visa in Denmark. See, we're the happy people, prone to spending oodles of moolah when travelling, so everyone loves us...

Oh, stop that. You guys are just gassed drunk and easy to rob. ahahahahah pppppppppp agagagagag

Just saw you, Ruth...in most places won't be a problem unless you want to travel. Hope it works out soon...
Title: Re: A Hard Rain's Gonna Fall... (THE VISA NIGHTMARE!)
Post by: Lotus Eater on June 27, 2008, 10:09:21 AM
Heavy duty grapevine is telling me that anyone over 60 and anyone here for more than 5 years is being told to go home when their contract finishes.  Good friends who ahve been here for years are now headed to Taiwan to work.
Title: Re: A Hard Rain's Gonna Fall... (THE VISA NIGHTMARE!)
Post by: George on June 27, 2008, 10:11:56 AM
News to me! afafafafaf afafafafaf I've got new papers.
Title: Re: A Hard Rain's Gonna Fall... (THE VISA NIGHTMARE!)
Post by: Lotus Eater on June 27, 2008, 10:26:40 AM
That's good.  They rang me to check how long I'd been here - hit the 5 year mark in January.  It's happened to them, other teachers in their school and also to friends of their in Shanghai. 

They figured they were lucky to find out now, because they wanted their contract fixed before they went on holidays.  Otherwise they wouldn't have found out until August when they came back.
Title: Re: A Hard Rain's Gonna Fall... (THE VISA NIGHTMARE!)
Post by: dragonsaver on June 27, 2008, 12:51:54 PM
I am over 60, 64 1/2.  I just got my 1 year visa back yesterday.  I have only been in China for 3 years - next year will make 4. 
Title: Re: A Hard Rain's Gonna Fall... (THE VISA NIGHTMARE!)
Post by: Mister Barfly on June 27, 2008, 01:47:14 PM
I got my new Z visa a couple of weeks ago and it was only for 3 months and it was 400rmb.  Are the one year Z visa's available again now?
Title: Re: A Hard Rain's Gonna Fall... (THE VISA NIGHTMARE!)
Post by: dragonsaver on June 27, 2008, 01:58:30 PM
I got mine on Friday and it is good until July31/09.
Title: Re: A Hard Rain's Gonna Fall... (THE VISA NIGHTMARE!)
Post by: ericthered on June 28, 2008, 07:17:33 AM
Could someone explain this five year rule? It's pretty clear in my contract: must only work for five continuous years in China, next job in China should be two years after.
There are members here who have been in China for more than five years, right?
Is there somewhere around this rule, except for getting married?
Title: Re: A Hard Rain's Gonna Fall... (THE VISA NIGHTMARE!)
Post by: cheekygal on June 28, 2008, 07:33:16 AM
I don't know. I didn't have a Z visa 5 years in a row. And I don't think it is an actual rule. I heard something about employment at the same place but not about being in China. May be it has to do with being here for 5 years without leaving the country. Normally you have to exit at least once a year so you don't have any problems with extending your visa.
Title: Re: A Hard Rain's Gonna Fall... (THE VISA NIGHTMARE!)
Post by: Raoul F. Duke on June 29, 2008, 03:34:33 AM
5-year rule: Strange but true, there is a body of rules out there that supposedly governs the conditions under which we can enter and live and work in China. These rules apparently include a 5-year cap on continuous employment in China by foreigners. I think this is more employment than residence...as far as I can tell it doesn't come up if you change jobs within 5 years.

Why? They don't really want us settling in here and getting things like tenure, influence, or legally-mandated benefits.

Also: in many contracts, I think including clauses deep in the bowels of the SAFEA rules, there are specifications for the required qualifications a prospective teacher should have. One of those states that the teacher should be no more than 60 years old.

Why? Think: major medical problems...and bills.

This stuff has been on the books a long time. What's really changed is the level of enforcement.

Even now, though, specifics change from place to place and person to person. Public schools and unis are subject to more rules than private schools. Enforcement can be spotty at best. I personally have been lurking about here for well over 5 years, and it's never even come up...and I know many other folks here who can say the same. I've also known a lot of folks here who were well over 60...and had no trouble getting jobs or visas.
Title: Re: A Hard Rain's Gonna Fall... (THE VISA NIGHTMARE!)
Post by: Senor Boogie Woogie on June 30, 2008, 01:30:16 PM

Hola!

About May of last year (2007), I was beating the bushes for a university teaching position. There were two schools who weere interested in me, the Zhejiang Forestry University, and Zhejiang U. of Technology (ZUT).

I was communicating with one fellow who really seemed like he really wanted to hire me, and when can I come and see the school and sign the contract and all that jazz. The college was not in Hangzhou but in a town about 45 minutes away. The town seemed nice and the school was beautiful. However, the guy who recruited me was gone, and the girl in the office for whatever reason took a disliking to me, and liked my resume' even less. She told me about the "five year rule", something that I have read over the internet but never quite believed. I think she wanted to get rid of me.

That girl was OK. This next girl was a flaming c*nt wad. About a week later, the ZUT school wanted to meet me, so off I went on another loooooooooooooooooooooooooong ride to get to their school (why are Chinese colleges way out in the middle of nowhere?).

I see the girl, and she wanted to see my passport. My passport is getting old, with a lot of old stamps and crap in it. She started fingering through it. She asked "Where is your visa?" I took the book back and pointed at my current stamp. "No, this is a Residence Permit, where is your visa." She was fingering through the old China stamps and found the last (Z) stamp I had with the word "VISA". The bitch said "You haven't had a working visa since 2004, how is that." I got a little under the collar and showed her my new stamp "This is what they gave me!" She talked down to me and said "As I said before, this is not a visa, this is a residence permit." I had enough and grabbed my shit and walked out the door.

The deal is, she was wrong, because since 2005, the Visa and the Residence Permit is the same stamp (since a visa is more or less a permission for an alien to have residence, right?) I didn't know, and my pervious job was kind of dodgy, so I went to the police station and met a woman who looked at my passport, said that there was no problems and hired me to work at her school (at 1,000 more a month and a 2,000 rental allowance)

The five year rule makes me sweat too a little bit too, however, last year I was here 6 years and was issued a visa/res. permit. I am more worried about some pervert or idiot foreigner doing something stupid here which puts us all in a bad light. I want these Olympics to be over.

Getting my visa/res. permit, masterbation license on Friday. Wish me luck.

Senor
Title: Re: A Hard Rain's Gonna Fall... (THE VISA NIGHTMARE!)
Post by: ericthered on June 30, 2008, 01:35:48 PM
Good luck Senor. Seems we'll be sharing stomping grounds in the near future.
Title: Re: A Hard Rain's Gonna Fall... (THE VISA NIGHTMARE!)
Post by: Lotus Eater on June 30, 2008, 01:39:05 PM
The Aus Gov't does not see this as an Olympics thing, but as a long-term tightening up on foreigners in China.

Quote
n the fine tradition of bureaucratic shifts in China, the new policy has not been fully explained, and the uncertainty has precipitated furious discussions among expats about what the rules mean and how long they will remain in place.

"The hottest topic in China at present is the visa issue," Gary Bowerman writes in the latest China Business News.

He notes that a seminar held at the British Chamber of Commerce in Shanghai recently took the view that "the new visa issuing rules, though being implemented in advance of the Olympic Games, are not specifically for the Olympic period but will most likely remain in place as part of a reform of China's immigration practice".

"Those hoping for 'a return to the old days' in October will be disappointed."
Title: Re: A Hard Rain's Gonna Fall... (THE VISA NIGHTMARE!)
Post by: Raoul F. Duke on July 01, 2008, 06:10:16 AM
If you're looking for the offshoot about checking into hotels, I moved it to a new thread of its very own. It's easy to see, and in the same board as this thread.
Title: Re: A Hard Rain's Gonna Fall... (THE VISA NIGHTMARE!)
Post by: ericthered on July 02, 2008, 09:25:48 AM
Just talked to the embassy. Now, the nice man told me that the embassy only gives out single entry Z visa, then you go to China, get registered, with the PSB I guess and then they provide you with multiple entry permit dohickey. Does this sound normal to you guys?
Title: Re: A Hard Rain's Gonna Fall... (THE VISA NIGHTMARE!)
Post by: George on July 02, 2008, 09:29:14 AM
Yes. You get the "Z" to get in, and the Residence Permit to stay....and come and go, and come and go......until it expires.
Title: Re: A Hard Rain's Gonna Fall... (THE VISA NIGHTMARE!)
Post by: ericthered on July 02, 2008, 09:33:18 AM
Thanks, George. All is good then. They even said that it would take no more than 5-6 days to handle my application, if I have all the necessary documents, which I have.
Title: Re: A Hard Rain's Gonna Fall... (THE VISA NIGHTMARE!)
Post by: cheekygal on July 02, 2008, 09:38:31 AM
See, that's what I dont get now - they want Z visa which they canceled couple years ago and instead they stamp residency in the passport with a purpose of work. Does ANYONE here have a visa that has Z letter in it?
Title: Re: A Hard Rain's Gonna Fall... (THE VISA NIGHTMARE!)
Post by: Lotus Eater on July 02, 2008, 10:30:03 AM
My 2004 and 2005 visas were Z visas - Z stamped clearly on the top.  06,07, 08 are all residency permits.
Title: Re: A Hard Rain's Gonna Fall... (THE VISA NIGHTMARE!)
Post by: Ruth on July 02, 2008, 11:40:00 AM
Mine are the same as Lotus's.  (Please tell me I used the apostrophe correctly.)
Title: Re: A Hard Rain's Gonna Fall... (THE VISA NIGHTMARE!)
Post by: dragonsaver on July 02, 2008, 01:02:09 PM
I just checked mine and it is a residency permit.  I just assumed it was a 'Z'.  I know the local police put it in.
Title: Re: A Hard Rain's Gonna Fall... (THE VISA NIGHTMARE!)
Post by: cheekygal on July 02, 2008, 01:56:07 PM
same for me. That's what I am talking about - they don't give Z visas anymore. I guess it is a miscommunication *up there*...
Title: Re: A Hard Rain's Gonna Fall... (THE VISA NIGHTMARE!)
Post by: George on July 02, 2008, 02:02:01 PM
They don't give "Z" visas to people already in the country! You get a "Z" visa to ENTER the country to work. Then you get a Residence Permit!!
Title: Re: A Hard Rain's Gonna Fall... (THE VISA NIGHTMARE!)
Post by: cheekygal on July 02, 2008, 02:08:50 PM
Yes, it is now. Before it was different. I used to get 1 month Z visa in Qingdao and the rest was covered by the green book and foreign expert's certificate. So if i wanted to leave the country and come back I would get a re-entry Z visa and never had any problems. Then they changed whole system. And those cute green books disappeared...
Title: Re: A Hard Rain's Gonna Fall... (THE VISA NIGHTMARE!)
Post by: Lotus Eater on July 02, 2008, 04:22:35 PM
The Xi'an PSB isn't giving the yellow slip when they take the passport for visa renewal.  When it was mentioned that other places do, the answer was, "This isn't Shanghai".
Title: Re: A Hard Rain's Gonna Fall... (THE VISA NIGHTMARE!)
Post by: cheekygal on July 02, 2008, 08:48:42 PM
Wow. Well, they may want to read some rules and regulations book - PSB in Beijing told us it is the rule for when the person wants to travel...
Title: Re: A Hard Rain's Gonna Fall... (THE VISA NIGHTMARE!)
Post by: Wags on July 03, 2008, 02:07:26 AM
They don't give "Z" visas to people already in the country! You get a "Z" visa to ENTER the country to work. Then you get a Residence Permit!!

Sorry George but your wrong. I haven't left here since arriving on a tourist visa 3 & 1/2 years ago and since I've had 4, about to be 5 Z visa's issued to me whilst in country.
Title: Re: A Hard Rain's Gonna Fall... (THE VISA NIGHTMARE!)
Post by: George on July 03, 2008, 02:27:35 AM
....and no Res Permit??

 offtopic
Quote
but your wrong
And YOU'RE wrong too! ahahahahah ahahahahah
Title: Re: A Hard Rain's Gonna Fall... (THE VISA NIGHTMARE!)
Post by: DWA on July 03, 2008, 05:12:48 AM
I apologize bibibibibi for injecting my thoughts here............BUT,

My Z Visa has a begining date Augsust 24, 2007 and an ending date August 24, 2008.  So, from what I understand, a new Z Visa will have to be issued, or I am not legal here.

From my meager knowledge of these legal things, when my Z Visa expires August 24, 2008, and all I get is a new Residency permit, am I legal or not?  Sounds to me like renewal of the Z Visa is required since the one I have is about to expire.

I am not an expert on these things.......I have garnered much from the knowledge base here. bfbfbfbfbf.....asking for expert advice  afafafafaf.....and Thank You Very Much!!!
Title: Re: A Hard Rain's Gonna Fall... (THE VISA NIGHTMARE!)
Post by: dragonsaver on July 03, 2008, 05:15:55 AM
All we get is the Residence Permit in our passports and it is very legal.  That is all I have had for the last 3 years and have been in and out of the country.
Title: Re: A Hard Rain's Gonna Fall... (THE VISA NIGHTMARE!)
Post by: Stil on July 03, 2008, 06:06:02 AM
You need a 'Z' Visa to enter China for the purposes of work. It is then converted into a Residence Permit that replaces the 'Z' Visa allowing you to work and reside in China.

Once you have a Residence Permit it can be renewed annually. The 'Z' visa is no longer necessary.

If your Residence Permit has expired, you need to start the proces over again, meaning obtaining a 'Z' visa outside of China to be converted into a Residence Permit once here.

The process of converting 'L' and 'F' visas into 'Z' visas is not supposed to be done, however in the past it was allowed. Now it seems the letter of the law is being held to and conversions of this type are not being issued.

What is happening now is not a change in the rules but a more strict adherence to them.

I have had no 'Z' visa for 4 years but have been legal due to my Residence Permit.

The Foreign Expert Certificate is to show that your job (which is essential for your company) cannot be done by a Chinese National and so your company has had to hire outside of the country. This certificate is tied to the company. A company without legal standing to hire foreigners cannot obtain it. If your Foreign Experts Certificate has the name of another company on it, then you have been 'loaned' out. The legality of this is murky at best.

The Certificate of Health Examination is needed to obtain both the Residence Permit and the Foreign Experts Certificate. It is to make sure you are not introducing any foreign nasties that could disrupt the harmonious healthiness of the people of the Middle Kingdom.

In the past there have been many work arounds but now this is what you should be looking for.
Title: Re: A Hard Rain's Gonna Fall... (THE VISA NIGHTMARE!)
Post by: Raoul F. Duke on July 03, 2008, 06:32:56 AM
Couldn'a said it better. Stil is a genius, for such a knucklehead. agagagagag
Title: Re: A Hard Rain's Gonna Fall... (THE VISA NIGHTMARE!)
Post by: Raoul F. Duke on July 03, 2008, 06:39:19 AM
They don't give "Z" visas to people already in the country! You get a "Z" visa to ENTER the country to work. Then you get a Residence Permit!!

Sorry George but you're wrong. I haven't left here since arriving on a tourist visa 3 & 1/2 years ago and since I've had 4, about to be 5 Z visas issued to me whilst in country.

I believe ya, Wags, but something is seriously awry here.
It sounds like you've either been getting a Z Visa every time you've gotten a new Residence Permit, which is totally unnecessary, OR you're getting Z visas but no Residence Permit, which makes you technically illegal.
The new Residence Permits look a LOT like the old Z visas now. Are you sure you're reading this right?
Something is terribly wrong here... bibibibibi
Title: Re: A Hard Rain's Gonna Fall... (THE VISA NIGHTMARE!)
Post by: Senor Boogie Woogie on July 04, 2008, 12:52:57 PM

Hola!

Got my residence visa today!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! jjjjjjjjjj

Senor afafafafaf
Title: Re: A Hard Rain's Gonna Fall... (THE VISA NIGHTMARE!)
Post by: AMonk on July 04, 2008, 02:57:00 PM
 agagagagag agagagagag Congratulations!! agagagagag agagagagag
Title: Re: A Hard Rain's Gonna Fall... (THE VISA NIGHTMARE!)
Post by: Riz on July 04, 2008, 03:31:01 PM
Here's Riz's tale:
1 - Having received my Release Letter from my FAO last week, I went to see my to-be employer. I presented my passport with Residence Permit(expires on 30 July), EC and Health Check certificate. As she looked at my entry and exit dates that say 12 Feb(exit) and 21Feb(entry), she asked me to show some kinda document from PSB Changsha( city where I live). I later realized that my FAO should have reported to the PSB about the period I was away but it did not. I've got everything document but that piece of paper.

2- My two other colleagues who shifted their apartments and went to another part of the city had had the same problem.It happened the same day by chance and we all had given calls to our FAO.The lady who deals with such matters has  been grounded for corruption and forgery but she's not been fired for some reason. She refused to help anyone of us.Another woman ( an arrogant character) referred us to the first woman who has already denied to rescue the situation.We three contacted the director of FAO who hardly speaks English. Nothing fruitful came out of all the calls.

3- My American colleague's wife is a Chinese and she's smart! Smart enough to deal with such issues.She called someone in the Police Deptt who is kinda help for foreigners in Changsha. Only 10 minutes later, my colleague received a call from the FAO that they would arrange that entry-exit document soon. Both of them have got it the other day.

4- Changsha is suffering from power-cut or load shedding ritual nowadays. I had two meetings with my Director regarding the issue. He always calls the girls who work in the office and I am sure they just don't care what he says. " Electricity is cut-off " is the answer that I have heard twice. Tomorrow is Saturday. Police do not work two days.

My Visa expires on 30 July 2008. I am left with 26 days only.Weekends are off.


Title: Re: A Hard Rain's Gonna Fall... (THE VISA NIGHTMARE!)
Post by: Ruth on July 04, 2008, 11:33:19 PM
Well, that's a heads-up for me.  I never reported to my uni the dates I was leaving and re-entering the country (beyond 'I'm going to Canada for Spring Festival), so you can be sure they never reported anything to the PSB.  Hope it doesn't come back to bite me.

Hope you get the piece of paper you need, Riz, and especially your new Res Permit.
Title: Re: A Hard Rain's Gonna Fall... (THE VISA NIGHTMARE!)
Post by: cheekygal on July 05, 2008, 12:55:52 AM
I wasn't asked for PSB documents but I was asked to present besides letter of release with a paper from labour bureau about termination of employment. In Zhuhai no matter what visa you are obtaining, if you were on residence with work purpose these two letters are a must to provide.
Title: Re: A Hard Rain's Gonna Fall... (THE VISA NIGHTMARE!)
Post by: Con ate dog on July 05, 2008, 09:25:57 AM
I got mine back, finally.  My school got guanxi!

I heard the first report of a 12 month Type-Z visa being procured.  It's happening again, at least somewhere. bfbfbfbfbf
Title: Re: A Hard Rain's Gonna Fall... (THE VISA NIGHTMARE!)
Post by: Riz on July 06, 2008, 06:32:03 AM
I got down with fever and bloody cough recently. I stopped smoking and my gf brought me that black thick syrup that's sweet but too viscous. It works! Quitting smoking and swallowing that medicine gave me enough strength to shout at That woman called Jane who's job is to work for us which she does not.
So this noon when I got up, I went straight to her on 3rd floor and yelled at her asking about that goddanm document.All her arrogance and stiff-necked attiude vanished in the friction of a second.I told her in a straightforward way that I would get a lawyer and I would go to the police to report of this treatemnt of yours and not making that entry-exit document available to me.24 days are left for my visa validity.It expires on 30th July.

She got paranoid and promised me to arrange it for me by tomorrow. Lousy Bi**h!
Title: Re: A Hard Rain's Gonna Fall... (THE VISA NIGHTMARE!)
Post by: joe.thinker on July 06, 2008, 08:07:39 AM
I got down with fever and bloody cough recently. I stopped smoking and my gf brought me that black thick syrup that's sweet but too viscous. It works! Quitting smoking and swallowing that medicine gave me enough strength to shout at That woman called Jane who's job is to work for us which she does not.
So this noon when I got up, I went straight to her on 3rd floor and yelled at her asking about that goddanm document.All her arrogance and stiff-necked attiude vanished in the friction of a second.I told her in a straightforward way that I would get a lawyer and I would go to the police to report of this treatemnt of yours and not making that entry-exit document available to me.24 days are left for my visa validity.It expires on 30th July.

She got paranoid and promised me to arrange it for me by tomorrow. Lousy Bi**h!

 offtopic
Title: Re: A Hard Rain's Gonna Fall... (THE VISA NIGHTMARE!)
Post by: Raoul F. Duke on July 06, 2008, 08:28:41 AM
Yeah, kinda. Riz is new. agagagagag
Title: Re: A Hard Rain's Gonna Fall... (THE VISA NIGHTMARE!)
Post by: dragonsaver on July 06, 2008, 12:52:24 PM
Actually it is only a tiny bit off topic. uuuuuuuuuu

His previous post was that he couldn't get his visa until he got a piece of paper about him leaving and proof of exit papers.  This is something new about visa's.  His FAO was giving him the gears. bibibibibi

This post is about him being strong and demanding the paper.  It had off-topic parts to it but it was referencing his previous post about his visa. agagagagag agagagagag
Title: Re: A Hard Rain's Gonna Fall... (THE VISA NIGHTMARE!)
Post by: Riz on July 06, 2008, 07:21:42 PM
Yeah Raoul is right saying I am kinda new here. I did not know where to post my previous mail and I really wanted to share my feelings with my unseen friends. Thanks to Dragonsaver for backing me up that I am a little bit on topic.Yesterday happened to be very lucky day for me infact.I was interviewed by a kindergarten Principal and I did a demo class with 5 year olds for 30 min. That demo went awesome and I got selected. I am going to sign a contract with that school.It's called 'Joy' and it's got a license to hire foreigners.5000 yuan a month,16 hours,furnished house and everything that I want from this job.

And yes, to be on topic, They will provide me with a residence permit and and EC in 5 days.I plan to invite my all the friends from Raoul's Saloon for a toast once my extended visa is in my hand.
Congrats to me! agagagagag
Title: Re: A Hard Rain's Gonna Fall... (THE VISA NIGHTMARE!)
Post by: icebear on July 10, 2008, 12:54:05 AM
Good news - just received my passport back with a shiny new Z visa. Single entry, good until Oct (I come back next week), although I'm a bit perplexed by "Duration of each stay 000 days after each entry". Is this because I need to convert to a residence permit the day I arrive?
Title: Re: A Hard Rain's Gonna Fall... (THE VISA NIGHTMARE!)
Post by: china-matt on July 10, 2008, 01:00:41 AM
Single-entry Z visa? Does that mean you can't leave the country for travel?

I've got my trip to the PSB later today. I'll let everyone know how my renewal goes. I'm sure they'll give me some lecture about behaving appropriately.
Title: Re: A Hard Rain's Gonna Fall... (THE VISA NIGHTMARE!)
Post by: cheekygal on July 10, 2008, 01:37:02 AM
Yes, icebear. Before with that visa you'd get a green book called residence permit. Now your company should get change that Z to residency in your passport.
Title: Re: A Hard Rain's Gonna Fall... (THE VISA NIGHTMARE!)
Post by: china-matt on July 10, 2008, 04:24:23 AM
No problems at PSB today. The officer didn't look at the original documents, didn't look at me, didn't ask any questions. Gave my co-worker the bill, took the receipt, and stamped everything. Should have my passport back with the new visa next Thursday.

There was a Korean family in front of me that got yelled at for some reason--looked like a heated argument, and drew a couple more officers to the desk. Maybe the officer was just too angry to ask questions when I got up.
Title: Re: A Hard Rain's Gonna Fall... (THE VISA NIGHTMARE!)
Post by: Con ate dog on July 11, 2008, 08:20:19 PM
Question:

I just got my 3 month visa back... but it says "residence permit" without any mention of "Z-visa".  Why not?
Title: Re: A Hard Rain's Gonna Fall... (THE VISA NIGHTMARE!)
Post by: Raoul F. Duke on July 11, 2008, 08:24:09 PM
Who knows. In theory, if you have a Residence Permit, a Z Visa should be completely irrelevant.

However, some recent reports have indicated being required to also show a Z. Whether this is new official policy, or just some local greaseball cop with a boner for foreigners, is anybody's guess.
Title: Re: A Hard Rain's Gonna Fall... (THE VISA NIGHTMARE!)
Post by: Ruth on July 12, 2008, 12:34:09 AM
On the residence permit there is a line that says 'pupose of residence.'  I have two Chinese characters that mean 'work'.  I know sometimes that space can have several characters that means one is the spouse of someone who is here for work reasons.  I would presume that those who are here on a spouse visa because they are married to a Chinese person would have that indicated.

Con, get a Chinese friend to read that for you (unless your Chinese is good enough - mine isn't)
Title: Re: A Hard Rain's Gonna Fall... (THE VISA NIGHTMARE!)
Post by: cheekygal on July 12, 2008, 02:12:15 AM
BECAUSE IN CHINA THEY DONT ISSUE Z VISAS, JUST RESIDENCE PERMITS WITH THE PURPOSE - WORK  afafafafaf
Title: Re: A Hard Rain's Gonna Fall... (THE VISA NIGHTMARE!)
Post by: Raoul F. Duke on July 12, 2008, 02:51:01 AM
That's been true a lot of places. But again, after some recent reports I have to wonder if it's universally true or not...or for that matter, still true anywhere. It's a real mess out there. llllllllll
Title: Re: A Hard Rain's Gonna Fall... (THE VISA NIGHTMARE!)
Post by: cheekygal on July 12, 2008, 04:38:59 AM
 offtopic I just realized I typed the previous message in capitals  bibibibibi Anyway, as Bugs said in another thread - if you ever had a Z visa stamped in your passport, then you won't have to get another one and keep getting residence permits.
Title: Re: A Hard Rain's Gonna Fall... (THE VISA NIGHTMARE!)
Post by: Raoul F. Duke on July 12, 2008, 07:36:18 AM
So I think you're saying...those with a Residence Permit are required to have had a Z Visa at some point in their stay here, but after that the Z doesn't have to be renewed...only the Permit.
Well, maybe that's the deal.
Since most of us who live to tell the tale have had a Z visa early in their stay in China, we may have just never noticed this.

But...is this new, or just being enforced at last... mmmmmmmmmm
Title: Re: A Hard Rain's Gonna Fall... (THE VISA NIGHTMARE!)
Post by: decurso on July 14, 2008, 04:25:28 PM
 That's the thing...a lot of recent deportations (such as Bugs) aren't really a result of new regulations, but stricter enforcement of ones that have been in place for a long time but up until now have been basically ignored.

 Seen three friends get the heave ho in the past week. None of them actually had to go home...simply leave the country and get a new Z visa. Two took it pretty well...the third...oy vey. Literally called himself a victim of Chinese bureauacracy when he was in fact a victim of his own bad decisions.

 He came here on a tourist visa (returning after a two year stay and three month visit back home) with no job or plan. When his 30 day visa was about to run out, he paid a (illegal) visa agency for a 6 month Z visa. Thing is, these things cost a fortune and aren't renewable. The visa is issued under the name of a company that doesn't exist, and in order to get an extension of more than 30 days ( you can only get the the thirty day extension once...mostly because many schools require you you teach until the last day of your original visa...which basically means you need to teleport home) you need a letter from the company that originally sponsored your visa. Even though he is working now, his visa can't be renewed because his visa was sponsored by a company that doesn't exist.

 I don't feel a bit sorry for him. Coming here without a Z visa or job was...boneheaded. Acting surprised because you can't renew a visa you paid some back alley schmuck 1500 for is pathetic.

 Lessons to learn from this....1. Know your shit. I told him he wouldn't be able to renew that visa months ago and now he is in Korea wondering why I don't feel sorry for him

2. Enforcing the rules and putting corrupt visa agencies out of business is a good thing. Same with putting an end to employers who illegally employ people on F visas.

3. This isn't our country. As the boss has said before...we have no rights here. And we all have shelf life. They have every right to change the rules as they see fit, and we have the right to do what we're told. Maybe I've been here too long...but it seems reasonable
Title: Re: A Hard Rain's Gonna Fall... (THE VISA NIGHTMARE!)
Post by: AMonk on July 14, 2008, 10:01:54 PM
That's the thing...a lot of recent deportations (such as Bugs) aren't really a result of new regulations, but stricter enforcement of ones that have been in place for a long time but up until now have been basically ignored.

....Maybe I've been here too long...

I don't think that's the case, DeC.  In a slightly offtopic mode...


Students going to the USA to study now have to jump through such a multitude of hoops that Ringling Brothers would hire them in an instant.  This all came in after 9/11. 

IMHO, PRC just seems to be following in the footsteps of the rest of the world - late.  Of course the timing is b-a-d, but that's not really anything new, is it?

Does it suck?  Yes.  But for those who do what they need to do, from the beginning.....there should be at least a fair shot at the brass ring, Innit?  Or at least that's the way it's looking to me.
Title: Re: A Hard Rain's Gonna Fall... (THE VISA NIGHTMARE!)
Post by: Raoul F. Duke on July 17, 2008, 05:01:04 PM
Recent article from ESL Daily, found at http://blog.esldaily.org/2008/07/02/china-tightens-the-restrictions-on-foreign-teachers.aspx (http://blog.esldaily.org/2008/07/02/china-tightens-the-restrictions-on-foreign-teachers.aspx)

China Tightens the Restrictions on Foreign Teachers
Posted by ESL Daily at 7/2/2008


 It appears that China may be opening its doors wider to foreigners as the Summer Olympic quickly approach.  However, this is not entirely true, China has been closing other doors.  Earlier this year ESL Daily reported that China has been making it more and more difficult for foreigners to receive visas for more than 30 days (China gets tough on teachers).  China now has been denying renewal of teachers work visas. 


As the Summer Olympics draw near, foreigners are discovering that the welcome mat they had expected is being abruptly rolled up. Thousands of foreigners have been kicked out before today's deadline as a result of tough new visa policies. Those forced to leave include nondiplomatic support staffers at embassies, migrant workers, freelance writers, artists and students. – LA Times


Over 100 000 foreigners were expected to leave Beijing alone prior to the end of last month.  Those wishing to return will only receive 30 day visitor visas.  This short visa makes being a foreign worker or even student very difficult and expensive.  Many foreigners are departing the country and not returning.  The government has been issuing longer stay working visas to teachers, however large restrictions do apply in many situations.  The government has been asking teachers to have ‘advanced degrees’ (unclear if this means Masters or just Bachelors), at least two years teaching experience and be over the age of 25.  However, you may want to call your local Chinese embassy first before packing your bags, most embassies now only give 30 day visas now regardless of your job and credentials. 
More on this story can be found in the LA Times.
Title: Re: A Hard Rain's Gonna Fall... (THE VISA NIGHTMARE!)
Post by: Lone Traveller on July 18, 2008, 02:04:51 AM
Oh dear.
Title: Re: A Hard Rain's Gonna Fall... (THE VISA NIGHTMARE!)
Post by: Riz on July 18, 2008, 04:39:43 AM
My new liaison gave me a form to be filled, stamped and signed by my previous FAO and I had it done yesterday. This form is required to get a new expert certificate. It takes 5 days to get an EC in Changsha as she says. The next step is to apply for residence permit extension. That's my primary fear having read Raoul's recent post.There are many factors involved behind my fear. I am not a native speaker of English. My country's reputation at international level is also doubtful and my passport expires in 7 month. The only positive factor is my personal self. I got over 4 year teaching experience in China with absolutely legitimate universities and I always have had expert certificate. I am 40 year which is okay age for teaching in China. I got three recommendation letters from three jobs which speak good about me. I have got a four year college degree in Education and English(Lit).My teaching career in China is clean and clear without any sort of troubles caused by me. Visa tightening situation is worrying me. That liason sounded a little confident yesterday of getting my visa. 10 days of high and low moods!
Title: Re: A Hard Rain's Gonna Fall... (THE VISA NIGHTMARE!)
Post by: Pashley on July 18, 2008, 04:22:01 PM
My new liaison gave me a form to be filled, stamped and signed by my previous FAO ... This form is required to get a new expert certificate.
I am getting exactly the same line, from a Fujian employer. First time that has happened in several years in China.
Title: Re: A Hard Rain's Gonna Fall... (THE VISA NIGHTMARE!)
Post by: Riz on July 18, 2008, 04:54:53 PM
Another thing that is perhaps required , that my smart liaison does not know yet is the old contract book. I mean the document from the PSB. One of my mate has been asked to give it to his university for get visa and EC processed. I will call her tomorrow to confirm. As I had mentioned in my one of the previous post that she got this job using ' Guanxi' I am sure and she  has got no training how to handle such things. if she had given me a list of the documents required for visa, it would have made her job and my life comfortable to very extent. It;s her job to inform me what to do but it's vice versa in my case.
Title: Re: A Hard Rain's Gonna Fall... (THE VISA NIGHTMARE!)
Post by: Lotus Eater on July 28, 2008, 03:39:49 PM
One of my friends owns an Italian restaurant here - spent a fortune on getting it up and going.  His visa expires Saturday and it isn't being renewed.  Not a happy chappy.

Another friend of a friend - married to a Chinese woman, and been living in Qingzhou for 15 years, has had his visa renewal application refused.

These are not good times.
Title: Re: A Hard Rain's Gonna Fall... (THE VISA NIGHTMARE!)
Post by: ericthered on July 28, 2008, 08:47:08 PM
LE, I am sorry to hear about your friends. It does seem like this curtailment of the rules affects more people than it should.
Title: Re: A Hard Rain's Gonna Fall... (THE VISA NIGHTMARE!)
Post by: DaDan on July 28, 2008, 09:22:44 PM
LE,
Where did they apply, in their China city?
Did they apply for a longer term visa, a 30 day extension or the now standard but possibly only available outside mainland China 90 day double 30 day entry visa?

I know a Brit that got the now standard 90 double 30 L,
And an American that actually got the now standard but an F ,
Both got theirs from agents in HK. `Both In July.

The American said it was $2100 HK & two day wait, but he got an F, sait it cost more than L but not how much. Not sure details for the English chap & his L.
Title: Re: A Hard Rain's Gonna Fall... (THE VISA NIGHTMARE!)
Post by: Lotus Eater on July 29, 2008, 12:25:38 AM
Restaurant owner applied for a 12 month residency permit - ie an extension of what he already had for 4 years - in Xi'an.  The other guy applied for a 12 month residency permit in Beijing I think - again just an ordinary extension of his current status.
Title: Re: A Hard Rain's Gonna Fall... (THE VISA NIGHTMARE!)
Post by: Senor Boogie Woogie on July 30, 2008, 02:30:58 AM
One of my friends owns an Italian restaurant here - spent a fortune on getting it up and going.  His visa expires Saturday and it isn't being renewed.  Not a happy chappy.

Another friend of a friend - married to a Chinese woman, and been living in Qingzhou for 15 years, has had his visa renewal application refused.

These are not good times.


The first story made me think of some people I know who have lived here forever. One American I know who has been here well over 15 years, and two other people who have been here since the 1990s. The man who has been here over 15 years runs a successful furniture, antique type business and is a millionaire who owns several nice properties.

There is another guy who owns a successful bar and magazine, works for himself, and as far as I know, does not have another "official" job. He seems to have invested a lot of money into these businesses.

The last guy is a bar manager. An employee of someone else. He's been here forever. How? Who knows.

There is a legendary story here, about this scary looking guy, who was from somewhere west of China (Russiastani) who seemed to have a lot of money and power here. He's a big, tall ugly Lurch-like motherfucker. Very intimidating. Now, foreigners did know him on a personal and business level. There are stories that he was a drug dealer (like ice type shit) and from the looks of the scary, sweaty people who hung around him was probably true. The antique guy knew him and called him "Rasputin". Scary guy used to hang out in the bar I used to drink in, went behind the bar liked he owned the place. He was like 'Hi kids, Satan is here.'

Anyhoo, there was another foreigner he was angry with. Why? Ive heard several accounts. Rasputin hires a Chinese to find this guy and hurt him. Chinese finds foreigner taking a pee in a urinal in a bathroom in a bar and STABS HIM IN THE BACK. Almost kills him.

Chinese guy gets caught, he rolls on Rasputin and Rasputin is supposedly gone (with a great celebration from us). Well, HE'S BACK. I have not seen him, but have an acquaintence and his daughter who knows him and they say he's back. He's still supposedly stinking rich, but I do not see him in the bars and he (thankfully) lays low, probably in part because the guy he conspired to hurt or kill is still here. If I ever see him, I'll run screaming like a scared school girl with piss on the floor.

Word of advice: Be careful who you hang out with here. When I was in Xinjiang, my friend told me an expat was killed in a town next to his. Could of been a random thing, more than likely though it isn't.

----------------------

The married guy concerns me because I am married to a Chinese woman and I always thought that was my "ace in the hole" that allowed me to stay here. If I ever get kicked out, I can't just grab the Chinese wife and move to America, because they wont let her in(to my extreme anger.) My wife is a businesswoman and a partner in a construction business and is doing very well. I want to stay here. At least I will until July 31, 09'.

Senor



Title: Re: A Hard Rain's Gonna Fall... (THE VISA NIGHTMARE!)
Post by: Raoul F. Duke on July 30, 2008, 06:52:09 AM
Interesting story, but almost entirely offtopic . Please start a new thread for deviations...
Title: Re: A Hard Rain's Gonna Fall... (THE VISA NIGHTMARE!)
Post by: DaDan on July 30, 2008, 08:06:31 AM
I just got a email reply from the HK visa agent, she said "No problem" getting Another 90-2x30 day visa, F or L.
I'll be in their HK office tomorrow morning with only my passport & 1 photo before 9:30 & return to China on the 1:15pm ferry on Friday With a new visa.

I have heard of a couple few folks being turned down for longer term visas lately, or of people leaving cause they can't get a visa...
IMHO, they applied for the Wrong visa in the Wrong place, or they wanted an excuse to leave & using the visa situation for it.

folks, this is China, a place with many rules & no rules, nearly always there is a way to get things done if one pays attention & plays the China game as they lay it out for us...   

presently, as most who live here should know, `they Aren't giving long term visas...
so why apply for one?  mmmmmmmmmm

Title: Re: A Hard Rain's Gonna Fall... (THE VISA NIGHTMARE!)
Post by: Noodles on July 30, 2008, 03:01:15 PM
I gotta agree with Dan on this one. The only thing you can do at the moment is try to see out this situation with short term visas. I got one a couple of weeks ago, 90 day L for 1320rmb, including fake hotel and travel details. Although 90 days is a bit of a lie, as you only get 2 entries of 30 days each, but you use one when you come back into the country, so actually you only really get 60 days.

The agency are still insisting all will return to normal (whatever that is) on October 17th.

Oh i'd better add a quick edit to this. I obtain my visa this way because i don't work in China, just live here. If your a teacher or working in another capacity then you've gotta have a Z visa, this is more important now then ever before because the chances of your status being checked is much greater.
Title: Re: A Hard Rain's Gonna Fall... (THE VISA NIGHTMARE!)
Post by: Raoul F. Duke on July 31, 2008, 06:53:34 AM
If you're already here, you ARE getting 90 days.
You get the visa with 2 entries and can stay for a month.
Then you rock over to HK for blueberry pancakes, use entry #1, and get a 2nd month.
A month later you go back out-and-in on entry #2, and get your 3rd month.
Title: Re: A Hard Rain's Gonna Fall... (THE VISA NIGHTMARE!)
Post by: Riz on July 31, 2008, 02:06:27 PM
My liaison called me yesterday saying she could my visa renewed in 5 days. That's what I wanted to hear from her. My head of the FAO is getting my apartment equipped with all necessary electrical appliances, change water taps, replacing light bulbs with tube lights a squatter with the western style commode. There is one American teacher already working at that place. I wonder why the FAO does not know how to manage certain important things regarding paperwork to have the visa renewed, a presentable apartment. I have least expectations from them in future. I'll be glad if they don't mess with my salary and allowances.
Title: Re: A Hard Rain's Gonna Fall... (THE VISA NIGHTMARE!)
Post by: James the Brit on July 31, 2008, 02:26:49 PM
I wonder why the FAO does not know how to manage certain important things regarding paperwork to have the visa renewed, a presentable apartment.

They do know how to do those things. However, all those things cost money. Money, Chinese managers would rather spend on a big black shiny car.
Title: Re: A Hard Rain's Gonna Fall... (THE VISA NIGHTMARE!)
Post by: Noodles on July 31, 2008, 09:05:49 PM
Quote
If you're already here, you ARE getting 90 days.

Your right, of course. But unfortunately i was unable to get the visa in Shenzhen, they made me go to HK to get it, hence only 60 days for me.
Title: Re: A Hard Rain's Gonna Fall... (THE VISA NIGHTMARE!)
Post by: Riz on August 01, 2008, 03:32:54 AM
I will meet some cop at PSB tomorrow or on Monday. This liaison asked me if when I am free. My visa renewal is under process now and like last year, I have to answer few of the foolish questions the cop may ask me. It's really a " Hard Rain" falling upon me nowadays. My visa expired on 30th July but it was with the police by that time. I hope it's going to be alright soon.
Title: Re: A Hard Rain's Gonna Fall... (THE VISA NIGHTMARE!)
Post by: Wags on August 01, 2008, 04:59:21 AM
I will meet some cop at PSB tomorrow or on Monday.
I also had to go to the PSB but not for questions rather a digital photo of both me and my colleague.



It's really a " Hard Rain" falling upon me nowadays. My visa expired on 30th July but it was with the police by that time. I hope it's going to be alright soon.

I think you should be right, mine was also close to expiry when processed, not quite that close, but I was told as long as it reaches them before the expiry date it's not a problem.

 agagagagag
Title: Re: A Hard Rain's Gonna Fall... (THE VISA NIGHTMARE!)
Post by: joe.thinker on August 01, 2008, 05:05:04 AM
A month later you go back out-and-in on entry #2 ...

#3, #4, #5 ... #56 - in, out, in, out, in, out ... it's sex with China.
Title: Re: A Hard Rain's Gonna Fall... (THE VISA NIGHTMARE!)
Post by: Rajin on August 01, 2008, 06:45:42 AM
Quote from: Senor Boogie Woogie link=topic=1950.msg46464#msg46464 date=1217385058
If I ever get kicked out, I can't just grab the Chinese wife and move to America, because [u
they wont let her in[/u](to my extreme anger.)

Sorry to deviate but..they won't? I thought they had to since you're married and all.
Title: Re: A Hard Rain's Gonna Fall... (THE VISA NIGHTMARE!)
Post by: Raoul F. Duke on August 01, 2008, 09:08:31 AM
Not at all...marriage does NOT guarantee admission to the USA.
Each case is evaluated to assess the validity/sincerity of the marriage, the economic and other viability of the couple once they reach the US, and more.
Many couples, even those with kids and long marriages, are turned down.

A key factor seems to be documentation...photos, receipts, certificates, letters...all kinds of stuff. When T. Susan got her visa, she went in with over 10 kilograms  of papers! aoaoaoaoao

But yeah, we are a bit  offtopic
Title: Re: A Hard Rain's Gonna Fall... (THE VISA NIGHTMARE!)
Post by: DaDan on August 01, 2008, 11:36:06 AM
it be Friday evening & I be back in shekou wit one shiny new visa, just as planned bfbfbfbfbf

I'm set for two more months, wit some luck, my first empty page to be used when I get more put in my passport will be filled with at least a 6 month visa...

`life goes on  agagagagag
Title: Re: A Hard Rain's Gonna Fall... (THE VISA NIGHTMARE!)
Post by: Riz on August 04, 2008, 05:06:11 AM
I received a phone call from my liaison asking me to go to the PSB today. She asked me to go there alone so I did. The officer at reception directed to go to another room to meet another cop who's a lady. She had gone to have lunch break at 11 o clock. A uniformed guy in her office has asked me to come back at 3. I am with Sam now who lives near PSB. I am pissed off again for a valid reason. I want that fuckhead liason come and help me in case. I called the head of my FAO and shoted at her at the top of my lungs since she , like everyone thinks that she can understand and communicate in English. I demanded her to send a retard to help me out here. I will share again what happens at 3.
Title: Re: A Hard Rain's Gonna Fall... (THE VISA NIGHTMARE!)
Post by: BubbaBait on August 04, 2008, 05:21:18 AM
Boy! Take a deep breath. Your attitude, justified or not, is not going to help you.
Title: Re: A Hard Rain's Gonna Fall... (THE VISA NIGHTMARE!)
Post by: Acjade on August 04, 2008, 05:30:10 AM
You're doing it hard. Makes my boss look like a thoroughly civilised gentleman. Which he is.

But just a thought. Sometimes the FAOs run for cover and avoid all conflict situations because it appears they have lost face. I've met perfectly capable people here who will go into blank mode as soon as things look like they might have to cop a few indecipherable rants from a foreigner. The delay might not have been her fault. But even if it was remember the old adage: you catch more bees with honey than vinegar.

I know this is a stressful situation. Every year I turn my passport into the Chinese Government through one of their own departments for which I theoretically work. Each year it comes back late. When I appear to be discomfited by this I'm always told 'It's their fault.Don't worry.' Not a great comfet to a western mind. This last time I was addressed courtesly and with a bit of a sheephish smile that made me laugh. Last year I had to go back to have my digital photo taken three times. This freaked me out until I found out that they thought something was too weird. A foreigner with freckles in her eyes.

I've even travelled without my passport...pre Olympic days because the boys and girls in the office were moving slowly. But there's no worries as long as the PSB received your passport before it expired. Everything else they hold themselves accountable for. Such as, ' Forgot to mention we need this and that and possibly this.... ad infinitum.' Just remeber that as long as the PSB got your passport on time, you'll be fine.
Title: Re: A Hard Rain's Gonna Fall... (THE VISA NIGHTMARE!)
Post by: AMonk on August 04, 2008, 09:52:09 AM
....I called the head of my FAO and shoted at her at the top of my lungs.....

Uummmm...but isn't that the same lady who is making so nice about getting your apartment fixed?  Better to call her back and apologise for your behaviour.  Then the bricks can fall where they will.   After all, it's not her fault that your inept liaison is .... inept. 
Title: Re: A Hard Rain's Gonna Fall... (THE VISA NIGHTMARE!)
Post by: Raoul F. Duke on August 04, 2008, 09:54:32 AM
But we're getting way, way offtopic here.
This thread is about the changes in visa rules, and the problems they are causing.
It's not about the usual methane-breathing help we tend to get with this stuff.

We'd love to hear your horror stories. In a new thread.
Title: Re: A Hard Rain's Gonna Fall... (THE VISA NIGHTMARE!)
Post by: Riz on August 05, 2008, 05:52:40 AM
I got my residence permit renewed yesterday. Cheers everyone!
Title: Re: A Hard Rain's Gonna Fall... (THE VISA NIGHTMARE!)
Post by: ericthered on August 05, 2008, 06:48:30 AM
Congratulations Riz agagagagag agagagagag
Title: Re: A Hard Rain's Gonna Fall... (THE VISA NIGHTMARE!)
Post by: Stil on August 05, 2008, 10:38:19 AM
Wow Riz, that's amazing considering that everyone around you were so stupid, moronic and retarderd.

Congratulations!
Title: Re: A Hard Rain's Gonna Fall... (THE VISA NIGHTMARE!)
Post by: Acjade on August 05, 2008, 10:51:30 AM
Congratulations. You've passed GO!
Title: Re: A Hard Rain's Gonna Fall... (THE VISA NIGHTMARE!)
Post by: Lotus Eater on August 05, 2008, 02:38:14 PM
I got my residence permit renewed yesterday. Cheers everyone!

So all your worries were for nothing???
Title: Re: A Hard Rain's Gonna Fall... (THE VISA NIGHTMARE!)
Post by: Mr Nobody on August 06, 2008, 02:35:00 AM
USAnian friend converted L to Z and residence permit at the local SinoCanadian language mill that purports to be part of the local uni, without problems.

It only goes to show. Here in the sticks, rules be different.
Title: Re: A Hard Rain's Gonna Fall... (THE VISA NIGHTMARE!)
Post by: becster79 on August 06, 2008, 11:41:42 AM
Just got my Z visa from the Brisbane consulate yesterday. No probs whatsoever, nothing different. 4 days, same $30, took my travel docs (which showed doing a land crossing again from Hong Kong to Guangzhou, nothing booked to get across) and school docs etc. Piece of cake and told them 'see you next year'!

Met a few Olympic families in there as well rushing their visas through...
Title: Re: A Hard Rain's Gonna Fall... (THE VISA NIGHTMARE!)
Post by: Riz on August 06, 2008, 04:37:33 PM
Stil knows how worried I was about the job and visa. Having heard the stories at this place, I had made up my mind to face whatever happens.And Then, I discovered a retard liaison and a shitty college where no one wanted to go. I am leaving this thread today.We will shoot the breeze somewhere else soon folks.
Title: Re: A Hard Rain's Gonna Fall... (THE VISA NIGHTMARE!)
Post by: Mr Nobody on August 06, 2008, 06:10:01 PM
I was told recently by someone who should be in the know (junior PSB dealing with visas) that much of the visa issues are actually targeted at USAnians.
Title: Re: A Hard Rain's Gonna Fall... (THE VISA NIGHTMARE!)
Post by: Raoul F. Duke on August 06, 2008, 06:13:17 PM
But it seems to be layin' 'em low across the board.
I know Australians, Canadians, British, South Africans, Germans, Danes...all kinds of people who have had to make quick temporary or permanent retreats home.
Title: Re: A Hard Rain's Gonna Fall... (THE VISA NIGHTMARE!)
Post by: Mr Nobody on August 06, 2008, 06:22:44 PM
I bow to your greater knowledge. It was a rumour anyhoo, but she (a cute PSB) told me so. I haven't had an issue, and the friend I know who did convert was USAnian, and he didn't have an issue, so maybe I should just hush my mouth.
Title: Re: A Hard Rain's Gonna Fall... (THE VISA NIGHTMARE!)
Post by: Raoul F. Duke on August 06, 2008, 06:27:18 PM
No, please, Mr. N...we just live for blather here. agagagagag

China has always had something of a boner for US citizens...probably in no way related to the incredible expense and difficulty to which Chinese citizens are subjected to for US visas. So there may well be some truth to it.

What a bunch of soreheads... asasasasas
Title: Re: A Hard Rain's Gonna Fall... (THE VISA NIGHTMARE!)
Post by: Mr Nobody on August 06, 2008, 06:33:46 PM
Oz is about as difficult for them to get in, but our visas to get into china are around half the price of USAnian ones, and I am told less trouble.

Don't know why.

Maybe something to do with sending shipments of rice when they were having famines back in the dim distant past, but this is a guess. A vague one.
Title: Re: A Hard Rain's Gonna Fall... (THE VISA NIGHTMARE!)
Post by: Raoul F. Duke on August 06, 2008, 09:36:53 PM
It's just much more difficult and expensive for Chinese to get visas to the USA than it is for other countries. And here's why:

Greyhound scraps ads after Canada bus beheading
By ROB GILLIES, Associated Press Writer
1 hour, 2 minutes ago
 
TORONTO
-
Greyhound has scrapped an ad campaign that extolled the relaxing upside of bus travel after one of its passengers was accused of beheading and cannibalizing another traveler.

The ad's tag line was "There's a reason you've never heard of 'bus rage.'"

Greyhound spokeswoman Abby Wambaugh said Wednesday a billboard and some tunnel posters near a bus terminal in Toronto are still up and would be removed later in the day.

"Greyhound knows how important it is to get these removed and we are doing everything possible," Wambaugh said. "This is something that we immediately asked to be done last week, realizing that these could be offensive."

Vince Weiguang Li, who immigrated to Canada from China in 2004, is charged with second-degree murder in the death of 22-year-old carnival worker Tim McLean. He has yet to enter a plea.

Thirty-seven passengers were aboard the Greyhound from Edmonton, Alberta, to Winnipeg, Manitoba, as it traveled at night along a desolate stretch of the TransCanada Highway about 12 miles from Portage La Prairie, Manitoba. Witnesses said Li attacked McLean unprovoked, stabbing him dozens of times.

As horrified passengers fled the bus, Li severed McLean's head, displaying it to some of the passengers outside the bus, witnesses said.

A police officer at the scene reported seeing the attacker hacking off pieces of the victim's body, eating them, and claiming they tasted "like Hormel maple-flavored bacon," according to a police report.

Wambaugh said the ads only appeared in Canada and that some in Ontario and western Canada have already been removed. About 20,000 inserts of the Greyhound ads were scheduled to be put into an Alberta Summer Games handbook but they stopped the presses.
Title: Re: A Hard Rain's Gonna Fall... (THE VISA NIGHTMARE!)
Post by: DaDan on August 07, 2008, 03:01:53 AM
But we're getting way,   offtopic   here.
This thread is about the changes in visa rules, and the problems they are causing.
It's not about the usual methane-breathing help we tend to get with this stuff.

We'd love to hear your horror stories. In a new thread.

.
cccccccccc
Title: Re: A Hard Rain's Gonna Fall... (THE VISA NIGHTMARE!)
Post by: cheekygal on August 07, 2008, 05:47:36 AM
Here're my recent findings. If you obtained a new passport from your Embassy in China, you MUST and I repeat MUST transfer your old visa to your new passport if you are going to use it again for coming back to China (now I am perplexed on whether it is 100% necessary to do so if you aren't). Even if you are leaving the country for good immediately, they won't care. Your country most probably won't care for it but the Chinese authorities won't let you out of China.
This is what bites me the most cause I can't transfer my current visa hence I have to waste a month in Russia applying all over again for my new passport while I COULD get it here and spend only few days in Russia or more to my liking.
Fair warning: try your best not to involve yourselves with any visa agents or anyone who wants to do you visa for a favor/money/car import. Some day it may just as well get back to you as a boomerang and hit you where it hurts at the least expected moment.  agagagagag
Title: Re: A Hard Rain's Gonna Fall... (THE VISA NIGHTMARE!)
Post by: Rajin on August 07, 2008, 03:15:41 PM
Yes, indeed. My passport as of last August was a good 40-50 dollars more than my fellows Brits' were, although I've heard that it's come down quite a few notches since then.

My Z visa was renewed without incident. I live in Xiangtan, pretty small time government, and my boss seems to have quite a few connections.
Title: Re: A Hard Rain's Gonna Fall... (THE VISA NIGHTMARE!)
Post by: James the Brit on August 07, 2008, 03:30:12 PM
Yes, indeed. My passport as of last August was a good 40-50 dollars more than my fellows Brits' were, although I've heard that it's come down quite a few notches since then.

British passports cost 120 pounds (240 US$) these days. Which is ridiculous! The British government says it's because of all the new technology, but a French passport is only 40 pounds (80 US$) and has the same technology.

I have a choice between the two, so I know what I'm getting next time round...
Title: Re: A Hard Rain's Gonna Fall... (THE VISA NIGHTMARE!)
Post by: Stil on August 07, 2008, 03:45:34 PM
British passports cost 120 pounds (240 US$) these days. Which is ridiculous! The British government says it's because of all the new technology, but a French passport is only 40 pounds (80 US$) and has the same technology.

I have a choice between the two, so I know what I'm getting next time round...

Pay the 120. Do you really want to be considered French!

Passport in Canada is $87 CAD. Exact change only.
Title: Re: A Hard Rain's Gonna Fall... (THE VISA NIGHTMARE!)
Post by: James the Brit on August 07, 2008, 03:47:55 PM
British passports cost 120 pounds (240 US$) these days. Which is ridiculous! The British government says it's because of all the new technology, but a French passport is only 40 pounds (80 US$) and has the same technology.

I have a choice between the two, so I know what I'm getting next time round...

Pay the 120. Do you really want to be considered French!

Well that's something you keep to yourself... oooooooooo
Title: Re: A Hard Rain's Gonna Fall... (THE VISA NIGHTMARE!)
Post by: Noodles on August 08, 2008, 12:08:16 AM
I'm a bit surprised by your situation Cheeky. I got my new passport at the UK embassy in Hong Kong (twice) and i've had no problems using my old passport with the visa in it along with my new one, for them to stamp. It's just a bit of a pain in the arse to carry to passports.

Maybe this is another new situation for tightening of restrictions.
Title: Re: A Hard Rain's Gonna Fall... (THE VISA NIGHTMARE!)
Post by: AMonk on August 08, 2008, 06:58:18 AM
But Cheeks is also changing her visa status.  She will no longer be on a working visa. She will become a "dependent" for a while, so this is not a simple renewal.
Title: Re: A Hard Rain's Gonna Fall... (THE VISA NIGHTMARE!)
Post by: cheekygal on August 08, 2008, 07:35:54 AM
We sorted it out  afafafafaf
Title: Re: A Hard Rain's Gonna Fall... (THE VISA NIGHTMARE!)
Post by: Pashley on August 09, 2008, 12:52:49 AM
Passport in Canada is $87 CAD. Exact change only.

Yes, but our passports are only good for 5 years, versus 10 for many other countries. Then when you need a new one, you have to go through the whole dance -- guarantor, birth certificate, the lot -- just like the last time. There is no simple renewal procedure, as there is for US citizens and presumably others.

I think their system is broken and they should fix it. I have told them so via their feedback page https://www.pptc.gc.ca/service/contact/opinion.aspx?lang=eng and would encourage all other Canadians to do the same.
Title: Re: A Hard Rain's Gonna Fall... (THE VISA NIGHTMARE!)
Post by: Stil on August 09, 2008, 01:18:31 AM
Well there is a Simplified Passport Renewal Process but only if you are in Canada. They are processing things much faster now. I had to get a new passport6 months ago in Guangzhou but could only get it for 1 year because i didn't have my citizenship with me.

In Canada now, they extended it to 5 years and it only took 7 days and 12CAD. It now takes 2 weeks to get a new passport (less if you pay extra)

There's a rush because starting June 1st 2009, Canadians need a passport to enter Amerika

Ooops  offtopic
Title: Re: A Hard Rain's Gonna Fall... (THE VISA NIGHTMARE!)
Post by: cheekygal on August 18, 2008, 11:34:18 AM
So, as of next Monday I will have a shiny new visa in my shiny new passport. Boy, oh, boy, how much stress I lived through with the whole situation!
The immigration officer was very nice. He thoroughly checked all documents. Then asked what was the company I worked for in Beijing and compared with his computer records. Then got all papers submitted stamped and whole thing took about 15 mins. Here you pay with a bank card (they don't accept cash). And you pay as you receive the passport.
I am grateful to hubby's liaison - she is a Malaysian lady who does her job promptly. And to the assistant of the kindy's owner - she drove us there, made sure all documents were in order. There was no procrastination nor empty promises. Everything was done on time.
Oh and now in Zhuhai one has to take a photo with a code bar (just as in Shenzhen) when applying for visa.
Title: Re: A Hard Rain's Gonna Fall... (THE VISA NIGHTMARE!)
Post by: Raoul F. Duke on August 18, 2008, 05:22:48 PM
Hey, this topic has long ago gone to the dogs anyway. So I can tell you:

Canadians need a passport to enter Amerika

Hey, sorry. We don't need no more French-tinged Maple Niggers comin' down here, takin' away our jobs with their cheap frostback labor, staring luridly at our women, and trying to extend their insidious Socialist influences to our medical care. Go back to Saskatoon! asasasasas
Title: Re: A Hard Rain's Gonna Fall... (THE VISA NIGHTMARE!)
Post by: Shroomy on August 18, 2008, 09:10:30 PM
Canadians need a passport to enter Amerika

And, Americans now, or soon will, need a passport to get back into America if they go to Canada or Mexico.  There's quite the rush going on now as millions of old farts have to get passports to buy their arthritis medicine at Canada's socialist prices.
Title: Re: A Hard Rain's Gonna Fall... (THE VISA NIGHTMARE!)
Post by: Stil on August 19, 2008, 01:20:37 PM
Hey, this topic has long ago gone to the dogs anyway. So I can tell you:

Canadians need a passport to enter Amerika

Hey, sorry. We don't need no more French-tinged Maple Niggers comin' down here, takin' away our jobs with their cheap frostback labor, staring luridly at our women, and trying to extend their insidious Socialist influences to our medical care. Go back to Saskatoon! asasasasas

Don't worry big guy, I do everything I can not to enter the US. I will pay extra not have a stop-over when flying. I'm not blonde and blue eyed and passing through American customs has been difficult and sometimes humiliating in recent years. The stereotyping i can understand, the rudeness i could do without.
Title: Re: A Hard Rain's Gonna Fall... (THE VISA NIGHTMARE!)
Post by: Rajin on August 19, 2008, 02:05:32 PM
Don't worry! They were rude to me, too, and I'm American ^.^
Title: Re: A Hard Rain's Gonna Fall... (THE VISA NIGHTMARE!)
Post by: Stil on August 19, 2008, 02:46:21 PM
The backrooms are cold without clothes eh?
Title: Re: A Hard Rain's Gonna Fall... (THE VISA NIGHTMARE!)
Post by: Raoul F. Duke on August 19, 2008, 04:38:56 PM
Hmmm. I don't understand this. Their specific orders are to be rude ONLY to Stil. I don't know how Rajin got pulled into this.

Is it possible that you look...well, you know...Canadian? mmmmmmmmmm
Title: Re: A Hard Rain's Gonna Fall... (THE VISA NIGHTMARE!)
Post by: Rajin on August 21, 2008, 01:35:48 AM
I haven't been told that before but it's entirely possible.
Title: Re: A Hard Rain's Gonna Fall... (THE VISA NIGHTMARE!)
Post by: Pashley on August 21, 2008, 08:42:22 AM
My recent visa experiences follow.

I turned 60 last year which, at least in some provinces, creates problems with residence permits. In particular, Fujian is reportedly reluctant to issue them for older folk. I've been told this is policy brought down from Beijing, just not enforced everywhere. I've also been told that there is no age limit in policy, it's just that employers are required by SAFEA to provide medical insurance for all employees and do not want to pay the higher premiums for older staff. No idea if either tale is true.

I had an offer from Hua Qiao University, Quanzhou, Fujian. Then email saying me being 60 was a problem, but nothing they couldn't deal with. Then withdrawal of offer with the explanation that the PSB had already made exceptions for two of their returning staff over 60, was not willing to do it for a new hire.

So I got back to former employer Yang En, in the same region. They say it is not a problem, and the limit is 65 anyway. Should see in a week or so if they actually produce a visa.

In 2006, I moved from Zhuhai to Yang En and had a tourist visa when I arrived. They said they could not get a residence permit from that; I had to go to Hong Kong and re-enter on a Z visa. No problem; I actually went to Macau (much easier) and they paid for the trip.

This time, I'm on the last days of my Nanjing residence permit. No trip to HK/Macau needed, but both Hua Qiao and Yang En asked for a release letter from the previous employer, said this was a gov't requirement for residence permit. OK for me, but might
be a real problem for someone leaving a screwed-up job under tense circumstances. If old employer can hold that over your head, they have a lot of leverage.
Title: Re: A Hard Rain's Gonna Fall... (THE VISA NIGHTMARE!)
Post by: Pashley on August 22, 2008, 07:35:59 AM
I turned 60 last year which, at least in some provinces, creates problems with residence permits. In particular, Fujian is reportedly reluctant to issue them for older folk.
Just saw a post on one of the TEFL China lists, from someone in Zhuhai, Guangdong saying her school had just had 15 visas refused for older staff. Good place, I think, and they are now fairly desperate. Anyone who needs details, PM me or check teflchina.org archives.
Title: Re: A Hard Rain's Gonna Fall... (THE VISA NIGHTMARE!)
Post by: cheekygal on August 22, 2008, 08:15:20 AM
My father-in-law is 63 and he's worked at a uni here in Zhuhai from March till end of June. He left China but the uni wrote to him asking to come back. They didn't have problems with his visa and when he comes here next week they won't have getting him another one. Perhaps it depends on schools and their connections and on how valuable for the teacher they want to hire is.
Title: Re: A Hard Rain's Gonna Fall... (THE VISA NIGHTMARE!)
Post by: Primitive on August 23, 2008, 06:22:03 AM
Just got back from the Chicago Consulate and everything went well. My only complaint is that it took about an hour longer than they initially told me to process the visa. I actually had a better experience there than I did at the DMV when I got my driver's license renewed last month.
Title: Re: A Hard Rain's Gonna Fall... (THE VISA NIGHTMARE!)
Post by: danbo on August 26, 2008, 02:41:52 PM
Hi guys,

I don't know if my question is answered somewhere above (and there's a lot to read through!)

I'm currently in Bangkok where I teach at a uni, and have been offered what seems to be a peach of a uni job in Chanchun.

Only concern is that my prospective employer doesn't know whether I'd be able to get a Z visa here in Thailand (as the authorities have apparently got tough , and won't ease off till the end of 'olympic period' which is apparently a week or so after I need my Visa.

Going back to the UK ain't really an option as I' d be working here right up till I need to go.

Sorry, rambling post, but any advice would be much appreciated.
Title: Re: A Hard Rain's Gonna Fall... (THE VISA NIGHTMARE!)
Post by: Mr Nobody on August 26, 2008, 02:56:44 PM
I think maybe contact the Chinese Consulate in Bangkok and ask. I think that it should be OK, though.
Title: Re: A Hard Rain's Gonna Fall... (THE VISA NIGHTMARE!)
Post by: danbo on August 26, 2008, 03:14:08 PM
Thanks for answering - I'll be on the dog and bone to the consulate tomorrow morning. Hope it's ok!

Just done a bit of googling and it did seem that one had to go back to one's own country.

Still, a lot of old shite is of course spouted on the internet!
Title: Re: A Hard Rain's Gonna Fall... (THE VISA NIGHTMARE!)
Post by: Raoul F. Duke on August 26, 2008, 08:18:54 PM
You should be able to do it in Bangkok no problem. Might be different if you were a Thai citizen...but asking is ALWAYS the best advice. I'm being told mid-September as the earliest possible date for some visa relaxation.

For your offer...if you'd like, you can post the offer details (maybe in the teaching section somewhere) and we will opine upon its peachitude...help spot problems or pitfalls.
Title: Re: A Hard Rain's Gonna Fall... (THE VISA NIGHTMARE!)
Post by: danbo on August 26, 2008, 11:58:12 PM

For your offer...if you'd like, you can post the offer details (maybe in the teaching section somewhere) and we will opine upon its peachitude...help spot problems or pitfalls.

That's a good idea. Off to look for the right subforum. Cheers!
Title: Re: A Hard Rain's Gonna Fall... (THE VISA NIGHTMARE!)
Post by: danbo on August 27, 2008, 12:25:00 AM
Just got this email from one prospective employer.

Is what she says true, with regards to converting tourist visa, or should I be wary?

Hello:
Good morning :
It doesn't matter . You can apply tourist visa first(for a month ) . We will change your visa to working visa when you arrive there  . Don't worry about it . We must sign contract first before you coming .
Any questions ?
I must know your plan first ,Because we prepare a apartment for you before you come .
 
Have a good day ,
Title: Re: A Hard Rain's Gonna Fall... (THE VISA NIGHTMARE!)
Post by: danbo on August 27, 2008, 01:08:54 AM
Seen this advice, posted by Apple Group in Chengdu, in a job ad on dave's esl. I'm HELLA confused!

3) Changing your Visa In-Country It used to be possible to change a tourist or business visa into a work visa in country, which made it a lot less complicated to become employed here. However, this is NO LONGER POSSIBLE and work visas MUST be processed before arriving in China. Do not listen to any offer that tells you to come on a tourist visa and they will change it here, they are either getting you to work on an illegal visa or do not know the new policies and you are the person who will end up paying for it.(saying that, it may also be possible in some cases)  

Title: Re: A Hard Rain's Gonna Fall... (THE VISA NIGHTMARE!)
Post by: MK on August 27, 2008, 01:50:22 AM
I'll answer this since I'm on.  'Apple Group' speak the truth.

Coming on a tourist visa and changing to a Z visa used to be fairly common practice, but in the current climate for FTs in China it is a very bad idea.

If a school is asking you to come on a tourist visa these days it is likely a sign that they do not really have their shit together, are desperate for teachers, or in the worst case may not actually be able to get you a working visa at all and are attemtping to lure you out here to work illegally.

Beware.
Title: Re: A Hard Rain's Gonna Fall... (THE VISA NIGHTMARE!)
Post by: Mr Nobody on August 27, 2008, 03:24:14 AM
And I know someone who did come on a tourist visa without a job waiting, found a job in a couple of weeks, and got it changed to a z all legal like. This was in Nanning.

Title: Re: A Hard Rain's Gonna Fall... (THE VISA NIGHTMARE!)
Post by: MK on August 27, 2008, 12:56:35 PM
Yeah. It's not supposed to be allowed anymore, but...

Quote from: 'Apple Group'
it may also be possible in some cases

...this is a very big country in a very fluid situation.  Most of the advice available at the moment seems to be leaning towards 'get a Z before you come', but with the you know whats over with, who knows how long that will remain true?
Title: Re: A Hard Rain's Gonna Fall... (THE VISA NIGHTMARE!)
Post by: cheekygal on August 27, 2008, 02:20:01 PM
Re: Macao. If you have a residency in China but you are among the countries whose residents need a visa to Macao, now they give you a one month multiple-entry visa. Before it used to be only a single entry so you would end up paying 100RMB each time you decided to go to Macao. I was very happy to get it today.  agagagagag
Title: Re: A Hard Rain's Gonna Fall... (THE VISA NIGHTMARE!)
Post by: BrandeX on August 27, 2008, 02:23:31 PM
Two weeks ago I did an interview at a local training center. They said that I could get a Z visa working for them (were actually trying to be a somewhat legit biz heh) but I would absolutely have to return to my home country for it to be issued.  Maybe they didn't have any guangxi to do it another way.
Title: Re: A Hard Rain's Gonna Fall... (THE VISA NIGHTMARE!)
Post by: Pashley on September 07, 2008, 01:18:43 AM
Maybe more restrictions coming? This article says China is going to start requiring a certificate from your home country that you do not have a criminal record:

http://www.china-briefing.com/news/2008/08/28/criminal-record-certificates-to-be-required-for-china-work-visas.html
Title: Re: A Hard Rain's Gonna Fall... (THE VISA NIGHTMARE!)
Post by: Ruth on September 07, 2008, 01:44:18 AM
I don't even know how to go about getting such a certificate.  A link within the linked article leads one to an article about how China is applying its own way of doing business to the rest of the world, ie the local police here DO keep the records, based on the hukou system.  Of course, local police stations back home don't do this.  Most countries have a national system.  Further links lead to quotes from PTB in various countries.  Link to FBI says it takes 4 1/2 months to get such a document. 

The need for this certificate is worth monitoring here.  Be interesting to know what folks up for visa renewal are being asked to provide and how they are obtaining these certificates, if necessary.
Title: Re: A Hard Rain's Gonna Fall... (THE VISA NIGHTMARE!)
Post by: dragonsaver on September 07, 2008, 01:54:39 AM
I know we need a certificate from the local police in Ontario (Canada), if we want to do any volunteer work.  It only takes a day or two to get. 

We had a thread about something like this awhile ago.  You can't teach etc in Canada and I think Australia and NZ without a police check.
Title: Re: A Hard Rain's Gonna Fall... (THE VISA NIGHTMARE!)
Post by: Pashley on September 07, 2008, 02:31:26 AM
The need for this certificate is worth monitoring here.

Yes. If it becomes a common requirement, then presumably the embassies & consulates will set up something to provide them as they do with the certification of single status you need if you want to marry here.

Quote
Be interesting to know what folks up for visa renewal are being asked to provide and how they are obtaining these certificates, if necessary.

I got a new residence permit this week, in Fujian, and was not asked for a police certificate. Nor, to my surprise, did they require a health exam, two year old certificate was good enough.
Title: Re: A Hard Rain's Gonna Fall... (THE VISA NIGHTMARE!)
Post by: fox on September 07, 2008, 02:33:14 AM
I know we need a certificate from the local police in Ontario (Canada), if we want to do any volunteer work.  It only takes a day or two to get. 

We had a thread about something like this awhile ago.  You can't teach etc in Canada and I think Australia and NZ without a police check.

yeah, add the uk and most european countries to that list too. A full disclosure form is required, which includes all prosocutions, warnings, and suspected activities. It is of course up to the discretion of the employer whether they take you on but the law does limit them on sensible stuff, like working with kids if you  have a sex offence.
Title: Re: A Hard Rain's Gonna Fall... (THE VISA NIGHTMARE!)
Post by: Lotus Eater on September 07, 2008, 02:35:50 AM
Doesn't take so long in Oz to do a police check.  Normal procedure if you are going to work on most Gov't departments (which include the majority of schools).  If you are working anywhere with children you must have the 'blue card' that says you have no history of sex offences.

Title: Re: A Hard Rain's Gonna Fall... (THE VISA NIGHTMARE!)
Post by: icebear on September 07, 2008, 03:18:26 AM
Any word on how it goes for L or F visas these days? I'm planning on skipping out for 6 months of travel sometime in the spring, and probably leaving my job a month or two before. Be good to know I'll be able to remain mostly legal (that's as good as we can hope for!) while soaking in a few months of pure Chinese and travels.
Title: Re: A Hard Rain's Gonna Fall... (THE VISA NIGHTMARE!)
Post by: Bugalugs on September 07, 2008, 05:02:00 AM
I had to get a police clearance when i was at home. The school translated it and took a copy of the translation and a copy of the original to the PSB.
Title: Re: A Hard Rain's Gonna Fall... (THE VISA NIGHTMARE!)
Post by: Pashley on September 08, 2008, 03:03:29 AM
Another post on the TEFLChina jobs mailing list about this is below.

These are (sometimes) very useful lists. They have three -- teaching,
work (terms & conditions, job ads, ...), and life in China. Subcription
info and list archives are at teflchina.org

Post was:

Yes, this is going to be very interesting. Especially if you HAVE ALREADY LEFT YOUR COUNTRY SEVERAL YEARS AGO to work in China, YOU MAY NOT BE ABLE T GET IT AL ALL.

Some further links on the topic:

http://www.china-briefing.com/news/2008/08/28/criminal-record-certificates-to-be-required-for-china-work-visas.html

This is the situation over the obtaining
of “Non criminal record certificates” from various other countries.
Clearly, the situation is haphazard and differs considerably from
country to country. Applicants for work visas in China are strongly
advised to check with their Embassy for facilitation of the new Chinese
requests.
US Dept Of State: “U.S. law enforcement authorities may not be
familiar with such a procedure since it is not commonly requested in
the United States”.

http://travel.state.gov/travel/tips/emergencies/emergencies_1201.html

FBI: Takes 18 weeks (four and a half months) to process: http://www.tefllogue.com/finding-a-job/certificate-of-no-criminal-record-for-tefl.html

Hong Kong (downloadable form for residents only): http://www.police.gov.hk/hkp-home/english/forms/cncc/172a.doc

New Zealand Ministry of Justice: “There is no such document” http://www.justice.govt.nz/privacy/

Singapore: Downloadable form to be presented in person (Singapore residents only) http://www.spf.gov.sg/faqs/doc/cnccform.pdf

Australia, New South Wales: 14 days, application in person: http://www.police.nsw.gov.au/about_us/structure/specialist_operations/forensic_services/related_information/criminal_records_section/related_information/frequently_asked_questions/national_criminal_history_record_check#6

UK Home Office: Documentation only available for criminal conviction records, not for no criminal records.

http://www.homeoffice.gov.uk/documents/2004-cons-crb-regulations/draft-statutory-instrument-2.pdf?view=Binary

UK advice on other European applicants: http://www.deni.gov.uk/circular_2006-06_appendix_a__checks_on_applicants_from_abroad.pdf

Note: UK Police cannot make checks on criminal records of UK nationals who have commited offenses overseas.

France: Applicants must apply in person to the Casier Judiciaire National, in Nantes. Documentation available in two weeks.

http://www.crb.gov.uk/Default.aspx?page=2325

EU Pilot Scheme (Austria) http://www.epractice.eu/cases/2081

Hungary (3 months)

http://www.magyarorszag.hu/english/keyevents/a_alpolg/a_okmany20050822/a_azon20050822/a_erkolcsibiz20061215.html

Taiwan (3 days)

http://www.ptpolice.gov.tw/English/CmsShow.aspx?Parm=2006121512553437,,1
Title: Re: A Hard Rain's Gonna Fall... (THE VISA NIGHTMARE!)
Post by: James the Brit on September 08, 2008, 02:00:01 PM
I can confirm that the French one takes about two weeks. It's free and it's sent out to anywhere in the world. I did it myself.

The Singaporean one costs 225 RMB. They doit on the spotif you go to the Police HQ. They take your fingerprints and a picture of you.
Title: Re: A Hard Rain's Gonna Fall... (THE VISA NIGHTMARE!)
Post by: Con ate dog on September 09, 2008, 11:09:59 AM
Criminal background checks for foreign teachers?  What the hell took them so long?  bibibibibi  I always wanted to get one on myself and include it with my resume... but I thought it would look suspicious if I was the only one doing it.  I wonder how to go about this; I'll ask my stepbrother.

Title: Re: A Hard Rain's Gonna Fall... (THE VISA NIGHTMARE!)
Post by: ericthered on September 09, 2008, 01:27:11 PM
Con, I think you just have to go to the police and ask for a copy of your record. They'll give you a piece of paper with your name and such and, have you never decided to go against the law of the sovereign, it'll just be blank. That's at least how it worked for me.
Title: Re: A Hard Rain's Gonna Fall... (THE VISA NIGHTMARE!)
Post by: Raoul F. Duke on September 10, 2008, 03:40:41 AM
I would think whatever would show up on a job-type police record check back home, would show up on what they got here.
I'd think ANY kind of arrest that showed on the check at home would probably make it much more difficult to get a job here; this is conjecture on my part.

Some things don't go on police records. Some things don't stay there forever, especially if you never have any more problems. And you've been a lamb. agagagagag
Title: Re: A Hard Rain's Gonna Fall... (THE VISA NIGHTMARE!)
Post by: fox on September 12, 2008, 04:28:13 AM
Youz know how far back they want & what type/level of crime is acceptable?
Only convictions? petty crimes committed against humanity when one was 18, 20-40 years ago?
 



any and all will show up on it. Smoking a spliff in uni campus and getting busted to relieving yourself in a side alley on the way home to driving convictions and speeding tickets.
The trouble is that an education establishment will just see an entry on the form and therefore throw you out if they have a choice.
Title: Re: A Hard Rain's Gonna Fall... (THE VISA NIGHTMARE!)
Post by: Spaghetti on September 12, 2008, 12:52:21 PM
The FBI record takes eight weeks, at the most. I did it last year.
Title: Re: A Hard Rain's Gonna Fall... (THE VISA NIGHTMARE!)
Post by: AMonk on September 16, 2008, 09:11:17 AM
Slightly  offtopic

Went to get my visa for December trip, on Saturday.  Can now do it.  They weren't issuing any visas (for Bermudians) since February!!  Apparently just relaxed the rules, on Friday.

They want 1) photo; 2) passport information; 3) local address; 4) itinerary/ticket/China address; 5) financial statements; 6) letter from employer(s) to confirm that we're taking a vacation  WTF?!?  aoaoaoaoao Oh.  Right.  TIFC, isn't it?

And the cost??  $290.  $100 each for the "processing" fee to the agent and $90 for the courier. 

The visa itself?  I don't know yet.  I have to give them my c/card info so that they (Chinese visa office) can bill it with the correct fee!!

Well, will re-present myself to the agent on Saturday....with all the required documents...and see what happens next.
Title: Re: A Hard Rain's Gonna Fall... (THE VISA NIGHTMARE!)
Post by: cheekygal on September 16, 2008, 11:23:37 AM
Oh yeah, they have been asking for bank statement or at least $6,000 cash in various Embassies. My MIL was asked to present all of that. But then PIL's letter of invitation and work permit were enough to get her here without presenting all those statements.
Title: Re: A Hard Rain's Gonna Fall... (THE VISA NIGHTMARE!)
Post by: Shroomy on September 16, 2008, 12:23:36 PM
Clearly Bermudans are a high risk for overstaying their visas and trying to immigrate!! ahahahahah ahahahahah ahahahahah

They want to be sure you're not just coming here for the fantastic welfare system.  bibibibibi

Or, Bermuda requires these things of visiting Chinese, so you get the reciprocal treatment.  That happens to Americans.  Prices for visas are much higher for Americans than for countries who charge Chinese less for their visas.
Title: Re: A Hard Rain's Gonna Fall... (THE VISA NIGHTMARE!)
Post by: babala on September 21, 2008, 05:19:34 PM
Police check, interesting...

I actually had to get a police check when I got home... to be able to work at Wal*Mart  aoaoaoaoao

Hopefully I can get a copy for free from them afafafafaf
Title: Re: A Hard Rain's Gonna Fall... (THE VISA NIGHTMARE!)
Post by: Noodles on September 25, 2008, 01:18:36 AM
It looks like things might be getting better for those of us on business visas.
Although still a lot of ambiguity.

http://english.sz.gov.cn/ln/200809/t20080923_432402.htm
Title: Re: A Hard Rain's Gonna Fall... (THE VISA NIGHTMARE!)
Post by: Granny Mae on September 26, 2008, 11:34:50 PM
. Smoking a spliff in uni campus and getting busted to relieving yourself in a side alley on the way home to driving convictions and speeding tickets.
.

Wow! Looks like mum was right in always saying "be sure your sins will find you out"

I think someone up there doesn't want me in China! Actually I'm not a bad old bird really uuuuuuuuuu Just because I lacked motivation (read-too lazy)and didn't get a Uni degree and had a mis-spent youth and wrecked my heart? Now my police record wants to catch up with me! Puleese,sir, all I did was grow one magnificent hoochey cooch plant, but I never smoked the stuff. Just idle curiosity really and it was so good,that even the police were greatly impressed. Cost me a week's wages and no conviction recorded! wonder if it would show up? My reason for having it was believed, following a dawn raid on my house and property.aoaoaoaoao Did someone just ask how I got caught? The people I paid to house sit my dog when I was away thought that they would do the "right" thing. bibibibibi Maybe it's three strikes and I'm really out!! llllllllll llllllllll
Title: Re: A Hard Rain's Gonna Fall... (THE VISA NIGHTMARE!)
Post by: Lotus Eater on September 27, 2008, 05:33:36 AM
If a conviction wasn't recorded it shouldn't show up.  Depends on what the request is for - convictions of arrests.  Little stuff should also fall off after 10 years.
Title: Re: A Hard Rain's Gonna Fall... (THE VISA NIGHTMARE!)
Post by: latefordinner on September 28, 2008, 05:11:38 AM
Agreed, LE, no conviction should mean no record. I had one very minor indiscretion in my (very) distant youth, and as there was no conviction (suspended sentence) nothing showed when I got my police check many years later.
I also agree that little stuff should fall off after a significant time has passed; but does it? We live in a world that is not only becoming smaller, but smaller-minded. Officials everywhere are increasingly officious. Common sense and good judgement remain uncommon qualities.
TIC, YMMV. Check that; everyone's mileage will vary.
Title: Re: A Hard Rain's Gonna Fall... (THE VISA NIGHTMARE!)
Post by: dragonsaver on September 28, 2008, 06:38:59 AM
We had a teacher arrive here on an F visa.  She has a FEC book now and her visa changed in her passport.  This is in Dalian, Liaoning Province.
Title: Re: A Hard Rain's Gonna Fall... (THE VISA NIGHTMARE!)
Post by: AMonk on September 28, 2008, 07:22:14 AM
Latest word (through my travel agent, via a telephone conversation with her visa-expediting contact in New York) is that China doesn't want to issue (F) visas any sooner than 30 days before the expected date of arrival in PRC. 

My understanding had been that it was a 3-months window.
Title: Re: A Hard Rain's Gonna Fall... (THE VISA NIGHTMARE!)
Post by: Escaped Lunatic on September 28, 2008, 11:31:49 PM
China's embassy to the US lists 3 visa services.  One of them (Oasis) now has this pop-up when you visit it:

"GOOD NEWS!!!  Itinerary, hotel reservation & visa notification form are no longer required for Tourist and Business visas."

And on the home page:
"Chinese Embassy just changed the visa policy, now everything has just become much easier. Please check the detail requirement in the Visa Type's page.                                 -Sep 22, 2008"


This certainly solves my problem about how to explain that my job is portable and I don't really need vacations in the classic sense to travel, just a lighter than average workload.
Title: Re: A Hard Rain's Gonna Fall... (THE VISA NIGHTMARE!)
Post by: cheekygal on October 09, 2008, 07:16:01 AM
The news seems to be very controversial. Looks like Embassies in different countries have different requirements for different types of visa. Here's what I have so far:
1. Beijing starts issuing/extending F visas again within 1 month time
2. In Zhuhai now, if you entered on L visa and plan on changing to residency (dependent's), forget about it. You can only get 6 months SINGLE entry L visa on which you can leave and come back once.
3. The immigration office in Zhuhai has issued some warning to teaching establishments that from January 2009 they will require all teacher's to get some special expert's certificate (seems like old ones will be canceled and new ones issued). However, anyone below 25 and above 60 will not be granted such certificates and whatever they have now will only be valid till end of this year. Nuts, isn't it?
4. ESL certificate is required now in Zhuhai to apply for Experts'Certificate and residency with a purpose of employment. Native speaker or not, you are required to have one.
Now, RUMOUR has that this is going to be imposed on whole of Guangdong province.
I know that till January 2009 things may change 1000 times. Let's hope they only change for the better, not for the worse.
Title: Re: A Hard Rain's Gonna Fall... (THE VISA NIGHTMARE!)
Post by: Lotus Eater on October 09, 2008, 08:38:56 AM
Quote
The immigration office in Zhuhai has issued some warning to teaching establishments that from January 2009 they will require all teacher's to get some special expert's certificate (seems like old ones will be canceled and new ones issued). However, anyone below 25 and above 60 will not be granted such certificates and whatever they have now will only be valid till end of this year. Nuts, isn't it?

This one seems to be happening in Hunan as well.  At least the under 25 part.
Title: Re: A Hard Rain's Gonna Fall... (THE VISA NIGHTMARE!)
Post by: Babe on October 09, 2008, 01:38:57 PM
Quote
1. Beijing starts issuing/extending F visas again within 1 month time
2. In Zhuhai now, if you entered on L visa and plan on changing to residency (dependent's), forget about it. You can only get 6 months SINGLE entry L visa on which you can leave and come back once.
3. The immigration office in Zhuhai has issued some warning to teaching establishments that from January 2009 they will require all teacher's to get some special expert's certificate (seems like old ones will be canceled and new ones issued). However, anyone below 25 and above 60 will not be granted such certificates and whatever they have now will only be valid till end of this year. Nuts, isn't it?
4. ESL certificate is required now in Zhuhai to apply for Experts'Certificate and residency with a purpose of employment. Native speaker or not, you are required to have one.
Now, RUMOUR has that this is going to be imposed on whole of Guangdong province.

Where did you find this information? I couldn't find anything like this on the Chinese Website.
Title: Re: A Hard Rain's Gonna Fall... (THE VISA NIGHTMARE!)
Post by: cheekygal on October 09, 2008, 03:13:07 PM
The University FIL works for e-mailed it to teachers. Believe me, Zhuhai lives by its own laws. You won't find anything on websites. You tell them about the general rules, they tell you they have their own rules.
Title: Re: A Hard Rain's Gonna Fall... (THE VISA NIGHTMARE!)
Post by: Babe on October 10, 2008, 03:01:26 AM
Quote
The University FIL works for e-mailed it to teachers. Believe me, Zhuhai lives by its own laws. You won't find anything on websites. You tell them about the general rules, they tell you they have their own rules.

Oh, I am speechless.  llllllllll
Title: Re: A Hard Rain's Gonna Fall... (THE VISA NIGHTMARE!)
Post by: cheekygal on October 10, 2008, 04:03:33 AM
Yeah me too. Let's hope they are just TALKING. Things here change pretty fast. But it is true that a lot of regulations have been imposed in a lot stricter way here in border cities (e.g. bar code pictures are required here for visa applications. I haven't heard it was used anywhere but Guangdong).
Title: Re: A Hard Rain's Gonna Fall... (THE VISA NIGHTMARE!)
Post by: George on October 10, 2008, 11:18:28 AM
Keep the fingers crossed now. I have read a lot on the Chinese forums about the visa problems for foreigners during the Olympics. There are lot of Chinese people have scary thought. They thought this is great, because this can teach the western people to know they can not only just stop Chinese to get in their country. China is getting stronger now, should make more difficulties for western people to get here, especially, Americans and Europeans.  There is a small number of people who think China should think about this more seriously, even pointing out this is a step backwards. bibibibibi   


 kkkkkkkkkk kkkkkkkkkk bibibibibi Silly, silly Babe!!

Post padding reaches a new low! ahahahahah
Title: Re: A Hard Rain's Gonna Fall... (THE VISA NIGHTMARE!)
Post by: Babe on October 10, 2008, 11:20:50 AM
Keep the fingers crossed now. I have read a lot on the Chinese forums about the visa problems for foreigners during the Olympics. There are lot of Chinese people have scary thought. They thought this is great, because this can teach the western people to know they can not only just stop Chinese to get in their country. China is getting stronger now, should make more difficulties for western people to get here, especially, Americans and Europeans.  There is a small number of people who think China should think about this more seriously, even pointing out this is a step backwards. bibibibibi   

Sorry, stupid moment, forgot to log George out.
Title: Re: A Hard Rain's Gonna Fall... (THE VISA NIGHTMARE!)
Post by: cheekygal on October 10, 2008, 12:03:11 PM
LOOOOOL I was wondering how come George's style has change! Love your ummm solidarity, folks!

P.S. Does that mean Babe knows everything that happens in George's inbox?  :wtf: :wtf:
Title: Re: A Hard Rain's Gonna Fall... (THE VISA NIGHTMARE!)
Post by: Lotus Eater on October 10, 2008, 12:06:24 PM
LOOOOOL I was wondering how come George's style has change! Love your ummm solidarity, folks!

P.S. Does that mean Babe knows everything that happens in George's inbox?  :wtf: :wtf:

Or George checks out the LL?  aoaoaoaoao aoaoaoaoao aoaoaoaoao aoaoaoaoao 
Title: Re: A Hard Rain's Gonna Fall... (THE VISA NIGHTMARE!)
Post by: cheekygal on October 10, 2008, 12:07:51 PM
No, Babe checks out the Gents' Club  ahahahahah
Title: Re: A Hard Rain's Gonna Fall... (THE VISA NIGHTMARE!)
Post by: George on October 10, 2008, 12:14:24 PM
Nah! She hijacks my computer when my back is turned because she is too bloody lazy to turn hers on!! Trouble is, she forgets to log me off! bibibibibi
Title: Re: A Hard Rain's Gonna Fall... (THE VISA NIGHTMARE!)
Post by: Babe on October 10, 2008, 05:07:26 PM
Quote
P.S. Does that mean Babe knows everything that happens in George's inbox? 

No, I am not interest in it. Too much shit there. awawawawaw
Title: Re: A Hard Rain's Gonna Fall... (THE VISA NIGHTMARE!)
Post by: Escaped Lunatic on October 11, 2008, 04:27:04 AM
 bkbkbkbkbk
Title: Re: A Hard Rain's Gonna Fall... (THE VISA NIGHTMARE!)
Post by: James the Brit on November 08, 2008, 07:54:43 AM
For you folks still in China bjbjbjbjbj, has the storm passed visa-wise?
Title: Re: A Hard Rain's Gonna Fall... (THE VISA NIGHTMARE!)
Post by: Stil on November 08, 2008, 10:40:39 AM
Thanks Babe. It's the first time George has made any sense.
Title: Re: A Hard Rain's Gonna Fall... (THE VISA NIGHTMARE!)
Post by: xwarrior on November 09, 2008, 04:46:59 PM
For you folks still in China bjbjbjbjbj, has the storm passed visa-wise?
I think that at this time we are in the eye of the hurricane and there is more to come.
The authorities seem to be finding new and subtle ways to control the number of foreigners in China.
Zhaoqing(Guangdong)hardly rates as a city by China standards and there is a small population of "Foreign Experts'. Two recent events cause concern:
1. after a year at our college it came time for one of our teachers (from the Philippines) to renew her Residence Permit. Public Security said she had applied too early and gave her a date to return - some 6 days before expiry. She handed in her documents on that day and was told that as she was late in making her application she would be given a "six month Residence Permit." I have not known this to happen before.
2. last weekend John Wotherspoon, Director of China8 (check China8 out on the internet for his background)went through to Hong and renewed his visa. He returned to Zhaoqing by train (there is a direct rail link between Kowloon and Zhaoqing) and was detained by Immigration at the station.He was refused permission to enter the Mainland and was taken back under escort to Hong Kong. While all the details surrounding this action have yet to be confirmed it now seems possible that a visa is no guarantee that you will be given entry to China
Title: Re: A Hard Rain's Gonna Fall... (THE VISA NIGHTMARE!)
Post by: James the Brit on November 09, 2008, 07:42:17 PM
X-warrior, a visa to a country is never a guarrantee of entry to said country. This policy i applicable to all countries across the world.
Title: Re: A Hard Rain's Gonna Fall... (THE VISA NIGHTMARE!)
Post by: icebear on November 10, 2008, 04:16:47 AM
Up here in Beijing it seems to be relaxing. A intern at my company recently picked up his F Visa from a local agent, converted from a 2 month L to a 1 year F, multi-entry, the works, for 1500 rmb (or abouts). My employer was quite surprised, as their instructions from the local Labor Bureau was that no work related visas would be issued for those under 25 anymore (he is 23). So, it appears the cracks are opening up again.
Title: Re: A Hard Rain's Gonna Fall... (THE VISA NIGHTMARE!)
Post by: Lone Traveller on November 10, 2008, 05:34:56 AM
A russian friend of mine, living in Harbin was forced to exit just before the Olympics. He's been working in China for many years as an interpreter. He's still yet to have his visa granted for return to the middle kingdom. So I think maybe it's not yet over... in the eye as Xwarrior said.
Title: Re: A Hard Rain's Gonna Fall... (THE VISA NIGHTMARE!)
Post by: James the Brit on November 10, 2008, 02:10:49 PM
Icebear, where does your friend come from?
Title: Re: A Hard Rain's Gonna Fall... (THE VISA NIGHTMARE!)
Post by: icebear on November 11, 2008, 04:34:26 PM
He's American, 23 years old, just got his BA a few months ago.
Title: Re: A Hard Rain's Gonna Fall... (THE VISA NIGHTMARE!)
Post by: Schnerby on November 17, 2008, 12:12:29 PM
Went back to the Chinese consulate this week. They were very friendly (last time I was there they were anything but friendly) and even helpful. Got my paperwork underway and so far it looks promising...
Title: Re: A Hard Rain's Gonna Fall... (THE VISA NIGHTMARE!)
Post by: George on November 17, 2008, 12:30:08 PM
Another step closer, Schnerbs. agagagagag
Title: Re: A Hard Rain's Gonna Fall... (THE VISA NIGHTMARE!)
Post by: Lotus Eater on November 17, 2008, 01:46:23 PM
Kevin Rudd, despite his outspokenness is a Chinese favourite - just because he can speak Chinese.  Everyone talks about him positively.
Title: Re: A Hard Rain's Gonna Fall... (THE VISA NIGHTMARE!)
Post by: James the Brit on November 17, 2008, 01:48:07 PM
 offtopic no?
Title: Re: A Hard Rain's Gonna Fall... (THE VISA NIGHTMARE!)
Post by: Raoul F. Duke on November 18, 2008, 01:46:16 AM
Extremely offtopic .
Title: Re: A Hard Rain's Gonna Fall... (THE VISA NIGHTMARE!)
Post by: Lotus Eater on November 18, 2008, 01:37:24 PM
Extremely offtopic .

NOT - because of Rudd, China likes Australia - therefore visas are much easier now that the Olympics are over.  You just gotta think logically guys!  Figure out WHY a comment would be made in the thread. 






But then ... as Hofstede points out in his work on Cultural Dimensions, many westerners have low context communication, whereas many Asians have high-text - they understand what is meant without everything having to be explained precisely.  I've clearly been here too long!!! ananananan ananananan ananananan agagagagag
Title: Re: A Hard Rain's Gonna Fall... (THE VISA NIGHTMARE!)
Post by: DaDan on November 18, 2008, 03:38:07 PM
I'll be at the Sanya PSB early next week asking for a 30 day extension on my expiring L visa I got in HK nearly two months ago, early the day before expiry date. I'm assuming & pretty sure there will be no troubles but allowing myself a day to exit China if turned down at the window.

I know first hand an easy handful of people from different, but the main 6 countries, that Have extensions on their visa they got at different PSB offices IN China the past couple months.

I'm going to give it 30 more days before buying a 6 month visa through Shanghai agents that are now doing visas for many countries again, same as before the changes but at higher cost.

PM me if you want contact details for Shangagents.
Title: Re: A Hard Rain's Gonna Fall... (THE VISA NIGHTMARE!)
Post by: cheekygal on November 19, 2008, 12:08:47 AM
Yeah agents are back in the game. Btw, HK gives 6 months visas now.
Title: Re: A Hard Rain's Gonna Fall... (THE VISA NIGHTMARE!)
Post by: James the Brit on November 19, 2008, 02:31:55 AM
Cheeky, what kind? How much?
Title: Re: A Hard Rain's Gonna Fall... (THE VISA NIGHTMARE!)
Post by: cheekygal on November 19, 2008, 02:38:32 AM
L. Dunno how much. But few Americans here just got.
Title: Re: A Hard Rain's Gonna Fall... (THE VISA NIGHTMARE!)
Post by: Noodles on November 19, 2008, 02:51:55 AM
Quote
Btw, HK gives 6 months visas now.

For Americans. My visa agency in HongKong told me last week that they can now get 6 month multiple entries for Americans only. They think the rest will follow shortly but apparently the powers that be were pretty pleased with the choice of new president so decided to reward you yanks.
Title: Re: A Hard Rain's Gonna Fall... (THE VISA NIGHTMARE!)
Post by: cheekygal on November 21, 2008, 12:02:24 AM
Quoting from a letter to staff of FIL's college(how is it in other cities of Guangdong and other provinces???)

Quote
According to related Chinese Law, all foreigners need a work permit before they can work in mainland China. Then need to apply for working visa and resident  permit. There are two different work permits: employment permit and foreign expert permit. The employment permit issued by local labour bureau, is mainly for people who work in companies; the foreign expert permit issued by provincial foreign expert bureaus, is mainly for people who works in education institution.

Compared to employment permit, foreign expert permit are more difficult to obtain.
Language teacher must have taught mother language and have at least two years teaching
experiences, other teachers must have at least five years teaching experience, etc.
and there is age limit. Without very special reasons, the application for
people over 60 years old is normally not accepted. Application for foreign expert permit
need more time, usually more than one
month.

Before May 2008, the Zhuhai Labour Bureau would issue employment permits to people
working in both companies and schools. Including our college, all institutions in Zhuhai had applied alien employment permits for their foreign staff. At present, according
to the guidelines of the province government, the Labour Bureau will not issue new
employment permits to foreign staff working in education institution. All foreign
staff working for education institution must apply for foreign expert permits from the
Guangdong Foreign Expert Bureau. The current employment permit could not be renewed
beginning 2009, the holder must apply foreign expert permit instead.
Title: Re: A Hard Rain's Gonna Fall... (THE VISA NIGHTMARE!)
Post by: Raoul F. Duke on November 29, 2008, 08:51:07 PM
Figure out WHY a comment would be made in the thread. 

We do our best; don't always make it. Maybe there's a reasonable limit on how hard we should have to work to make a connection?
In this case I still can't find any legitimate relevance to the post in question, even after the explanation... llllllllll

This thread is important. Please stay on-topic without requiring readers to use a Geiger counter.
Title: Re: A Hard Rain's Gonna Fall... (THE VISA NIGHTMARE!)
Post by: almondblight on November 30, 2008, 12:37:20 PM
I got mine switched from a tourist visa to a work permit without a problem in Wuxi (Jiangsu).  From what I've heard, it varies province to province (which I guess you guys know).  Someone told me that inner Mongolia requires police background checks, but most other places don't.

So it seems like things are a real patchwork now (more so), getting easier in some places well they get more difficult in others.
Title: Re: A Hard Rain's Gonna Fall... (THE VISA NIGHTMARE!)
Post by: Noodles on December 01, 2008, 04:44:20 AM
I'm in HongKong now waiting for my 6 month multiple entry visa. Being a UK passport holder these still aren't readily available, but i've found someone who obviously has the right connections but it's costing me 3000rmb. Most of the agencies can get multiple entry for US passports.
Title: Re: A Hard Rain's Gonna Fall... (THE VISA NIGHTMARE!)
Post by: almondblight on December 02, 2008, 01:52:02 PM
Question though - what does that mean for working?  Wasn't one of the problems before that people working on an F would be sent back home?  I guess that's calmed down a bit?
Title: Re: A Hard Rain's Gonna Fall... (THE VISA NIGHTMARE!)
Post by: Noodles on December 02, 2008, 03:17:40 PM
Quote
Question though - what does that mean for working?  Wasn't one of the problems before that people working on an F would be sent back home?  I guess that's calmed down a bit?

Not really sure about that, i would still be pretty careful about being on the right visa if your working here, things are still a lot more tighter than they were a year ago. There are definite signs of things relaxing but not sure it will ever be quite as sloppy as it used to be.

 bfbfbfbfbf Back home now with my 6 month multiple entry F visa so i'm happy, but i don't really work here so any visa will do me. bfbfbfbfbf
Title: Re: A Hard Rain's Gonna Fall... (THE VISA NIGHTMARE!)
Post by: Raoul F. Duke on December 07, 2008, 07:22:21 AM
Yeah, if you're officially not working, that makes things a lot easier...

Otherwise, it's official policy of the Saloon that we cannot endorse or recommend that anyone ever live and work in China without having the full legal documentation...which for nearly all of us means a valid Residence Permit and Work Permit/Foreign Expert Certificate.

Being here illegally is risky and a very bad idea. Anyone who tries to tell you otherwise is wrong- and, if it's coming from an employer, a lie calculated to enrich themselves at your risk.

If you're working for a Chinese company, drawing a Chinese salary, and living in housing that isn't provided by your company, you must have a Residence Permit and Work Permit/Foreign Expert Certificate. That's simply the way it is. Get legal or get gone.
Title: Re: A Hard Rain's Gonna Fall... (THE VISA NIGHTMARE!)
Post by: cheekygal on December 12, 2008, 02:12:22 PM
HM was only given 6 months visa. He was told that he needs to obtain Chinese teaching license (???). We asked around and in Beijing they ask for ESL certificate but seems like here in Zhuhai it is something else. Anyone in Guangdong heard anything about it? The kindy manager will ask next week at the bureau of education exactly what it means. Hopefully it is just ESL certificate  bibibibibi They are running out of teachers in Zhuhai and keep making it difficult for teachers to come!
Title: Re: A Hard Rain's Gonna Fall... (THE VISA NIGHTMARE!)
Post by: Lotus Eater on December 29, 2008, 05:41:27 AM
For the first time since I arrived here I had to have a medical to renew my visa. Blood tests, ECG, chest X-ray, blood pressure, ultra-sound for liver and kidneys.  University took me there and paid for all of it.

Friends have told me that it has become almost impossible to find University work in Beijing/Shanghai if you are over 65.  Unis' may offer part-time work, but don't want the responsibility of visas, health insurance, etc for older people.
Title: Re: A Hard Rain's Gonna Fall... (THE VISA NIGHTMARE!)
Post by: cheekygal on December 29, 2008, 07:39:24 AM
Try more like over 60. The law is reinforced from Jan 1st.
Title: Re: A Hard Rain's Gonna Fall... (THE VISA NIGHTMARE!)
Post by: Ruth on December 29, 2008, 09:59:44 AM
Not sure if this is country-wide or just Guangdong Province, but apparently there's a new Foreign Expert something-or-other.  My poor FAO has just done all the paperwork to process our FECs and now she has to do it all again because of the new certificates.  They won't accept what's already in process.  And this time, in addition to the resumes, degrees, passports, etc., she has to write a description of what our jobs entail and why the uni needs us.
Title: Re: A Hard Rain's Gonna Fall... (THE VISA NIGHTMARE!)
Post by: Ruth on December 29, 2008, 10:01:12 AM
Try more like over 60. The law is reinforced from Jan 1st.
That's really, really bad news. 
Title: Re: A Hard Rain's Gonna Fall... (THE VISA NIGHTMARE!)
Post by: cheekygal on December 29, 2008, 10:12:20 AM
It is. Lots of good teachers will be forced to leave. And the schools will yet again be left with a bunch of backpackers who barely sat through ESL course (no offense to anyone but there are really quite a few weirdos teaching around here  bibibibibi )
Title: Re: A Hard Rain's Gonna Fall... (THE VISA NIGHTMARE!)
Post by: Spaghetti on December 29, 2008, 03:16:36 PM
For the first time since I arrived here I had to have a medical to renew my visa. Blood tests, ECG, chest X-ray, blood pressure, ultra-sound for liver and kidneys.  University took me there and paid for all of it.


Lotus, I have a friend who teaches in your neck of the woods. He renewed his visa last summer. He had to have a medical for the first time since arriving at his university, three years ago. Perhaps this will be the norm?

EDIT: I want to add that it sounds like I have even more reasons never, ever, to work in Guangzhou. Good luck and lots of strength to those of you who can put up with the bureaucratic bullshit down there.
Title: Re: A Hard Rain's Gonna Fall... (THE VISA NIGHTMARE!)
Post by: fox on December 30, 2008, 01:27:41 AM
i had the medical on my first arrival last year, and again 12 months later on my annual visa renewal, i was told i need to take one each year as part of the visa renewal process.
I'm not complaining as its  not a bad thing to get an annual check-up.
Title: Re: A Hard Rain's Gonna Fall... (THE VISA NIGHTMARE!)
Post by: Lotus Eater on December 30, 2008, 01:30:51 AM
Fox - I wasn't complaining, just noting that I have been here for five years, and this period included changing universities and this is the 1st time they have asked for a medical for visa renewal.  So things are tightening up.
Title: Re: A Hard Rain's Gonna Fall... (THE VISA NIGHTMARE!)
Post by: cheekygal on December 30, 2008, 02:47:46 AM
HM didn't have to take medical to renew his visa. Nor did his father when renewing his. They work for different establishments.
Title: Re: A Hard Rain's Gonna Fall... (THE VISA NIGHTMARE!)
Post by: Ruth on January 03, 2009, 11:21:57 PM
Odd about HM's and his father's medicals.  I'm in the same province and have had to get one each year upon renewal of the FE certificate.
Title: Re: A Hard Rain's Gonna Fall... (THE VISA NIGHTMARE!)
Post by: cheekygal on January 04, 2009, 01:17:28 AM
Just got our new shiny visas till June 30th. Why so short? Cause they wouldn't give 1 year visa without ESL certificate. So HM is getting his soon. In fact with recent developments and ESL certificate requirements we were lucky we got visas at all  bibibibibi Though our passports were in immigration for 2 weeks and instead of Dec 15th visas date Dec 30th  uuuuuuuuuu
Title: Re: A Hard Rain's Gonna Fall... (THE VISA NIGHTMARE!)
Post by: Schnerby on January 19, 2009, 08:48:37 PM
How long does it take for the uni to apply for all those certificates/letters they need for me to get my visa?

My papers are with them (as of Monday) and I need to get my visa by Friday the 6th (I leave Monday the 9th).
Title: Re: A Hard Rain's Gonna Fall... (THE VISA NIGHTMARE!)
Post by: LaowaiSaosao on January 20, 2009, 02:33:25 AM
They will have to get them this week as next week is Spring Festival and everything will be closed, but should be able to do that if they know what they are doing. I imagine the Chinese Embassy where you are applying for your visa will also be closed so that gives you Mon 2 Feb - Fri 6 Feb to get your visa, if you have papers back by then, so pretty tight....
Title: Re: A Hard Rain's Gonna Fall... (THE VISA NIGHTMARE!)
Post by: Lotus Eater on January 20, 2009, 05:44:52 AM
If you have your invite letter from your institution, then you can pay a hurry up fee at the Chinese Embassy in Oz.  My daughter hadn't quite gotten round to getting her visa to China 2 days before her plane left  bibibibibi bibibibibi bibibibibi bibibibibi.  The Chinese Embassy in Brisbane told her to rock up early the next day, pay extra and she had it in hand by 1:00pm that day.
Title: Re: A Hard Rain's Gonna Fall... (THE VISA NIGHTMARE!)
Post by: Con ate dog on January 20, 2009, 07:22:00 AM
What Lotus said: that letter of invitation is all you need to apply from your end.  All they have to do is compose it and hit send, then you're in control.  bfbfbfbfbf  But there's always that Spring Festival wildcard, wherein the country shuts down (early, too- a comedian once said that Communism is like what would happen if an entire country was run by the post office).

Worst comes to worst, you can rush a tourist visa.  Well, you can in Suzhou, can't in Shanghai- it varies. 
Title: Re: A Hard Rain's Gonna Fall... (THE VISA NIGHTMARE!)
Post by: Schnerby on January 22, 2009, 05:55:54 AM
OK, so I knew about the holiday coming, but hopefully they should get something this week to send back to me. The EMS satchels take about 6 days to get between us, so that leaves a week. I believe I can pay the rush fee, and I happily will if it makes the visa appear.

This letter of invitation, is this something the school writes? If so, and I can get a visa based on this letter, I would be set. I might go and harass the poor guy for such a letter...
Title: Re: A Hard Rain's Gonna Fall... (THE VISA NIGHTMARE!)
Post by: Schnerby on January 22, 2009, 06:05:21 AM
Update!
They have thre work permit, and are applying for the visa application letter. He is going to phone the responsible people to try and get it before the holiday.

I hope this happens soon...
Title: Re: A Hard Rain's Gonna Fall... (THE VISA NIGHTMARE!)
Post by: Schnerby on January 28, 2009, 11:06:49 PM
It is simply getting too close to the deadline for comfort. Unless the papers are in the post (and the FAO just hasn't let me know), I will have to get a tourist visa. I only have next week, as I leave on the 9th.

Title: Re: A Hard Rain's Gonna Fall... (THE VISA NIGHTMARE!)
Post by: LaowaiSaosao on January 29, 2009, 01:54:15 AM
If they can't get the papers to you on time I would ask for an assurance in writing that they will pay any costs associated with changing your tourist visa to a work visa, as this will most likely involve a trip to Hong Kong. And make it clear you won't start teaching until you have the correct visa so they aren't tempted to mess around. If your flight is transferrable at all the better option is to stay home until you have the Z visa as making a HK trip would be expensive. FIngers crossed they start moving and it all comes together for the 9th.
Title: Re: A Hard Rain's Gonna Fall... (THE VISA NIGHTMARE!)
Post by: Schnerby on January 29, 2009, 11:00:12 AM
If only they had started a month earlier this would be so much easier...
Title: Re: A Hard Rain's Gonna Fall... (THE VISA NIGHTMARE!)
Post by: George on January 29, 2009, 12:09:38 PM
TIFC, Schnerbs. Get used to it! agagagagag
Title: Re: A Hard Rain's Gonna Fall... (THE VISA NIGHTMARE!)
Post by: DaDan on January 29, 2009, 12:48:37 PM
I got; in Shanghai Dec. 20th `08

 6 month F multi without 30 day or any time restrictions on length in country,
 
 U.S. passport 4500 Yuan. & one pic.

he posted my passport to me bout 12 days after I gave him my pssprt, 2 days before I expired.
My second this type from him & I've turned 5-6 others on to him with no trouble from any.

PM me if interested in his contact details.
Title: Re: A Hard Rain's Gonna Fall... (THE VISA NIGHTMARE!)
Post by: old34 on January 29, 2009, 02:08:57 PM
Wot George said.

Plus, it's CFNY here so everything has been closed down until today. And last week, they were getting ready for CFNY so nobody wanted to do much work from Jan. 22-25.

If they got the work permit on the 22nd and immediately took it to the FEB and applied for the invitation letter, it's been sitting in the local FEB office since Thursday. It (the invitation letter) will probably pop out tomorrow. Assuming the FAO is in town and not on some Spring Festival excursion (the rest of the proles here have the holiday off until next Sunday), s/he can pick it up at the FEB, pop it in the mail (suggest UPS or DHL and tell them you'll pay the extra charge when you get there if they hesitate-it's worth the comfort) and you should have it in your hands before next Monday. Which leaves you a week to get to the Chinese consulate to get your shiny Z visa. Seems short, but 7 days in our time is like 49 days in dog Chinese time. Plenty of time to get it done.

As George suggested, start getting used to it.

What you want to avoid is coming here on an L-visa and then (trying) to get it converted.
Title: Re: A Hard Rain's Gonna Fall... (THE VISA NIGHTMARE!)
Post by: Schnerby on January 29, 2009, 10:15:32 PM
The EMS took 10 days to get to me last time and 7 to get from me to them.

I (am supposed to) leave in 10 days, and I'm leaving on the Monday morning, so there isn't really time to post it now if it hasn't been posted already.

I know, TIFC, but it still aint fun...
Title: Re: A Hard Rain's Gonna Fall... (THE VISA NIGHTMARE!)
Post by: old34 on January 30, 2009, 01:12:35 AM
The EMS took 10 days to get to me last time and 7 to get from me to them.

No wonder. EMS is the delivery service operated by China Post.

Which is why I suggested UPS or DHL in my last post. Both are readily available in most cities in China. They cost a little more than EMS but you get what you pay for - more efficient, western-style service and certainly will get the docs in your hands sooner than 7 days. As mentioned, you will have to "suggest" it to the FAO and may have to offer to pick up the added cost. 
Title: Re: A Hard Rain's Gonna Fall... (THE VISA NIGHTMARE!)
Post by: old34 on January 30, 2009, 01:17:11 AM
Here's the list of UPS dropoff centers in major Chinese cities. If your city is on here, send the address(es) to your FAO. I have to imagine it's easier walking in to a UPS dropoff center and taking care of business than going to your local China Post and fighting the hordes buying stamps, collecting mail, etc., etc.

http://www.ups.com/content/cn/en/locations/dropoff/index.html (http://www.ups.com/content/cn/en/locations/dropoff/index.html)
Title: Re: A Hard Rain's Gonna Fall... (THE VISA NIGHTMARE!)
Post by: Schnerby on January 30, 2009, 11:42:17 AM
Which is why I suggested UPS or DHL in my last post.  

Yet, I managed to see all the acronyms as 'EMS'   mmmmmmmmmm
Apologies, brain must be fried.

Aus Post said EMS was the fastest way, but clearly they are just lacking imagination. I will get on to these other methods of postage.

I'm not exactly heading for a huge city, so mine isn't on the list. Having said that, this is good info!
Title: Re: A Hard Rain's Gonna Fall... (THE VISA NIGHTMARE!)
Post by: George on January 30, 2009, 11:56:11 AM
Shit! Jinan isn't even on that list!! bibibibibi
Title: Re: A Hard Rain's Gonna Fall... (THE VISA NIGHTMARE!)
Post by: old34 on January 30, 2009, 02:31:59 PM
Shit! Jinan isn't even on that list!! bibibibibi

But Yantai and Weihai are. What's up with that? Isn't Jinan the capital?
Title: Re: A Hard Rain's Gonna Fall... (THE VISA NIGHTMARE!)
Post by: George on January 30, 2009, 10:54:51 PM
Yeah. Jinan is the capital! Passing strange!
Title: Re: A Hard Rain's Gonna Fall... (THE VISA NIGHTMARE!)
Post by: synthette58 on January 31, 2009, 03:52:38 AM
Hey, I can't complain at EMS - I got my Invitation letter and Permit etc in 3 days, from Lin'an - sent it to the Consulate in Ottawa (via Golden Mile travel) with a 'rush 24 hr processing - $143 cdn' - and got it back in 5 days from when I sent it.......
- so 8 days total, start to finish, door to door, and I live in ButtF***, Nova Scotia!.......

Canada Express post???....took my mail 13 days to reach Lin'an - regular mail is quicker (and $2.40 is a lot better than sucking up a $45 bill for Express!).
Title: Re: A Hard Rain's Gonna Fall... (THE VISA NIGHTMARE!)
Post by: Schnerby on February 13, 2009, 02:03:53 AM
Yay! Gotta me a visa.

It cost $40AUD for a single entry Z visa to be changed to a resident permit once I arrive.

Had to provide flight details, working licence and letter from the university.
Title: Re: A Hard Rain's Gonna Fall... (THE VISA NIGHTMARE!)
Post by: George on February 13, 2009, 02:30:15 AM
'grats, Schnerbs. Soon be amongst us! agagagagag agagagagag
Title: Re: A Hard Rain's Gonna Fall... (THE VISA NIGHTMARE!)
Post by: synthette58 on February 13, 2009, 03:29:50 AM
Yay! Gotta me a visa.

It cost $40AUD for a single entry Z visa to be changed to a resident permit once I arrive.

Had to provide flight details, working licence and letter from the university.


....flight details? Maybe it's an Oz thing, because I didn't.
I did get questioned before getting my boarding pass though - why one way ticket? Then I showed them my forms for the visa (letter from Uni and Work permit/SAFEA document) and they said, ok, very good, no problems - so make sure you have your original docs ready for boarding the plane.
So, yep, it's also fine to come on a one-way ticket, if you have the Z-visa in your passport - at least from Canada anyways.
Title: Re: A Hard Rain's Gonna Fall... (THE VISA NIGHTMARE!)
Post by: becster79 on February 13, 2009, 05:11:19 AM
Schnerby, just curious, where did you apply for your visa? I always go to the Brisbane consulate and it only costs me $30- has it gone up recently? Just wanna make sure for next time...
Title: Re: A Hard Rain's Gonna Fall... (THE VISA NIGHTMARE!)
Post by: ericthered on February 13, 2009, 11:45:38 AM
Yay, Schnerby, good to hear  agagagagag agagagagag
Title: Re: A Hard Rain's Gonna Fall... (THE VISA NIGHTMARE!)
Post by: Schnerby on February 14, 2009, 12:12:19 AM
Yay! Gotta me a visa.

It cost $40AUD for a single entry Z visa to be changed to a resident permit once I arrive.

Had to provide flight details, working licence and letter from the university.


....flight details? Maybe it's an Oz thing, because I didn't.
I did get questioned before getting my boarding pass though - why one way ticket? Then I showed them my forms for the visa (letter from Uni and Work permit/SAFEA document) and they said, ok, very good, no problems - so make sure you have your original docs ready for boarding the plane.
So, yep, it's also fine to come on a one-way ticket, if you have the Z-visa in your passport - at least from Canada anyways.

Thanks for the tip  bfbfbfbfbf Will have them on hand.

Bec, I got my visa in Melbourne, but it seems the price has just gone up. Checked the Brissie consulate website and apparently they went up this January.
http://brisbane.chineseconsulate.org/eng/lsfw/qz/t530703.htm (http://brisbane.chineseconsulate.org/eng/lsfw/qz/t530703.htm)
Title: Re: A Hard Rain's Gonna Fall... (THE VISA NIGHTMARE!)
Post by: kukimuki on March 14, 2009, 10:35:19 AM
So, my personal visa nightmare...


I am in Xi'an. Have an L visa, which I extended once in Beijing. It is over by 18th -- in four days.

All the numerous shady 'companies' that I have contacted can't do 3 and 6 months F visas since January already, as you know. Probably because of the 两会? This time I don't have anywhere to get the 3000USD on my bank account, which is required to extend the L visa 30 days, either. Thus, probably I'll have to spend lots of money to go to Hong Kong by Wednesday and do the visa somewhere over there...

Does anyone know a better way??

If not, what agency in HK would you recommend, if applying for a 3 or 6 months visa?
Title: Re: A Hard Rain's Gonna Fall... (THE VISA NIGHTMARE!)
Post by: icebear on March 31, 2009, 03:40:07 PM
I have a residence permit which expires on July 15 from a company I left last November on good terms. I've been out of China since December. I'm planning on returning, probably in June, to settle again for another year or so. I see that the old visa conversion-extension services are being advertised again in Beijing, and was wondering if anyone knows current rates/reliability?

Will I need a letter from my old employer for 'release' to convert the visa at an embassy abroad? Would an industrious visa agent need said letter also?

Is it best to apply for a different visa before I re-enter (i.e. a L to be converted on entry...)? Or just have an agent convert to a 6/12 month F from the residence permit?

I have enough money saved to support myself for awhile and would prefer to stay out of a contract, but perhaps have a few tutoring hours a week for spending money, as I'll be focusing on doing distance education courses, studying Chinese, and enjoying the Beijing summer/fall.

Thanks for any tips.
Title: Re: A Hard Rain's Gonna Fall... (THE VISA NIGHTMARE!)
Post by: Con ate dog on April 01, 2009, 06:09:58 AM
In the next 2 weeks I plan to go consult a lawyer on these types of questions.  It occurs to me I could be making more money by working way less if not for that documents I need.  Conventional wisdom holds it that you need a type-Z to be safe here, but I wonder.

I'll get back to y'all...
Title: Re: A Hard Rain's Gonna Fall... (THE VISA NIGHTMARE!)
Post by: Raoul F. Duke on April 01, 2009, 07:36:30 AM
I hope a lawyer is the right person to consult. The reality seems to be that much comes down to simply the mood of a PSB bureaucrat at the time you encounter them, as much as it does the actual laws. My fear is that a lawyer may be happy to charge you some healthy fees to tell you things that will have little meaning at a police station.

I think we'd all like to be free of the Residence Permit leash, but the powers that be have gone to great lengths to make it nigh impossible for us to do that. Keeping the resident foreigner population firmly under control is a very high priority for these folks, and if you've met a few resident foreigners in China you kinda have to concede that there is some justification for this. aoaoaoaoao

But if anyone finds that loophole, by all means please spread the word...
Title: Re: A Hard Rain's Gonna Fall... (THE VISA NIGHTMARE!)
Post by: icebear on April 04, 2009, 10:57:06 PM
FYI the same day I posted my questions above on converting/extending to a 6 or 12 month F in Beijing (which used to be very easy/reliable/'cheap' before the Olympics) I also sent out a rash of emails to the usual visa agents/consultants in Beijing, including a few I or friends have used successfully both before and after the Olympics. There seems to be a fairly tight consensus among them all on what is and isn't currently possible - I've summarized below.

Z/Residence Permit to F conversion - not possible in country. In one case I was forwarded to one agent in Guangzhou, who said he could do it for 7000 RMB, but I assume he just crosses into HK with it and applies like normal, so not worthwhile at all since you could have a nice HK trip for that price and get the visa!

L to F conversion - possible, only for a 6 month F, average cost around 5000 RMB

F to F extension - possible in either 6 or 12 months, multiple entry, cost ranges from about 2000-4000 RMB. All agents stated that it would be cheapest and most reliable for me to either fly in through HK and get a new F there or get a new one abroad before entering (but apparently in HK 1-2 month Fs are as easy as ever?). I assume that F-extensions are the easiest from their perspective of greasing the wheels, which you could argue either validates or arouses suspicion about their claims.

Just FYI, can't claim its tried and true, but as I said this is from a wide sample of agents in Beijing, some of which I know to be legit (as far as that word goes in this indurtry, at least!).

FINALLY - what none of them answered - when applying for a new visa (F, for example) while I still have a valid Residence Permit do I need a release letter from my last employer or not? I did not need one when I did the same in the summer of 2007 in HK (although I had it on hand, just in case), but there seems to be a lot of hearsay out there on this point. I guess the safe bet is just asking my old employer to forward me a release letter I can carry with me when I apply...

EDIT: Hope this post conforms to the forum/post rules, if not I'll post my actual results when I go through with whatever plan I settle on come May/June.
Title: Re: A Hard Rain's Gonna Fall... (THE VISA NIGHTMARE!)
Post by: Raoul F. Duke on April 05, 2009, 09:31:40 AM
Good info, Icebear...thanks. bjbjbjbjbj

I'd only add, for those newer to all this...

An L visa is a tourist visa. You can't work legally on it, and technically only allows one to stay in hotels, or sometimes with family.

An F visa is a business visa. In most cases it allows one to work for a foreign company and draw a foreign paycheck, although it's sometimes applied to other people coming to China to work on a short-term basis: speakers, consultants, visiting faculty, and so on. It technically allows one to reside only in hotels or in approved company-provided housing.

A Z visa is a work visa. It's really only a gateway to a Work Permit and Residence Permit; these are what give you the right to work for a Chinese organization, get paid in RMB, and live in a private apartment.
Title: Re: A Hard Rain's Gonna Fall... (THE VISA NIGHTMARE!)
Post by: icebear on April 05, 2009, 01:41:55 PM
Final point from the correspondence with the visa agents in Beijing - several mentioned that in the run up to this October (China's 60th  cecececece) they assume visa extensions, coversions, and even legitimate applications abroad will become increasingly more difficult as in the several months before the Olympics. So, anyone that is approaching limbo (a visa expiring in September, for example) might want to look into that 1 year extension sooner rather than later... had a few friends get burned on this when their visas expired during July 2008.
Title: Re: A Hard Rain's Gonna Fall... (THE VISA NIGHTMARE!)
Post by: Nolefan on April 07, 2009, 08:14:05 AM

things are actually settling back in Beijing. here is the latest info from a trustworthy agent (remember amounts might vary according to nationality):

Quote
Cost for switch from L to F visa:
L to F, 6 months----4,000RMB.

Cost for F visa extension:
F extension for 12 months--1,200RMB
F extension for 6 months--800RMB
F extension for 3 months--650RMB

Time needed: 7 days

Anyone who needs the services above,plz contact me on:
Mobile: 150 010 28493
Office:5815 6222-116
Email/MSN: jinnanwang2008@hotmail.com

Echo Wang
Title: Re: A Hard Rain's Gonna Fall... (THE VISA NIGHTMARE!)
Post by: Raoul F. Duke on April 07, 2009, 08:19:07 AM
Incroyable! aqaqaqaqaq

Don't suppose they can do Residence Permits, can they?
Title: Re: A Hard Rain's Gonna Fall... (THE VISA NIGHTMARE!)
Post by: Nolefan on April 07, 2009, 08:22:19 AM

those are trickier but they're also back on the market. cost close to 10K

Title: Re: A Hard Rain's Gonna Fall... (THE VISA NIGHTMARE!)
Post by: DaDan on April 07, 2009, 08:46:44 AM
 
bfbfbfbfbf  bfbfbfbfbf bjbjbjbjbj  agagagagag  bjbjbjbjbj  bfbfbfbfbf  bfbfbfbfbf
Title: Re: A Hard Rain's Gonna Fall... (THE VISA NIGHTMARE!)
Post by: Nolefan on April 14, 2009, 04:18:49 AM
latest updates on prices:

Quote
Cost for switch from L to F,half an year---3,900RMB

Cost for F extension:
F to F, one year--1,200RMB
F to F, 6 months--800RMB
F to F, 3 months--650RMB

Cost for Switch from L to F,half an year---3,900RMB

Government fee depends on what entry you need and what nationality you are.

Above is not only for foreigners in beijing, but for foreigners all over china.

Anyone who need the service above, feel free to contact me on:
Mobile: 150 010 28493
Office: (010) 5815 6222-116(extension number)
Email/MSN: jinnanwang2008@hotmail.com
Add: Room 707-708, CYTS PLAZA, No.5 Dongzhimen South Avenue,Dongcheng District, Beijing

Echo Wang

Title: Re: A Hard Rain's Gonna Fall... (THE VISA NIGHTMARE!)
Post by: James the Brit on April 14, 2009, 04:25:47 AM
What nationality is this for?
Title: Re: A Hard Rain's Gonna Fall... (THE VISA NIGHTMARE!)
Post by: DaDan on April 14, 2009, 04:42:35 AM
I'll guess the answers to that are here;

Anyone who need the service above, feel free to contact me on:
Mobile: 150 010 28493
Office: (010) 5815 6222-116(extension number)
Email/MSN: jinnanwang2008@hotmail.com
Add: Room 707-708, CYTS PLAZA, No.5 Dongzhimen South Avenue,Dongcheng District, Beijing

Echo Wang
______________________* * * ________________________

Title: Re: A Hard Rain's Gonna Fall... (THE VISA NIGHTMARE!)
Post by: AMonk on April 14, 2009, 05:58:19 AM
What nationality is this for?



Government fee depends on what entry you need and what nationality you are.

Above is not only for foreigners in beijing, but for foreigners all over china.




These would be the base rates, but subject to adjustment by The Authorities (based on what passport you hold).
Title: Re: A Hard Rain's Gonna Fall... (THE VISA NIGHTMARE!)
Post by: Mr Nobody on April 14, 2009, 08:16:23 AM
I personally actually paid 800CNY for a one year F.

That was in Feb. I  have  a receipt.

Paid 400 for 11 month one for my daughter.
Title: Re: A Hard Rain's Gonna Fall... (THE VISA NIGHTMARE!)
Post by: Nolefan on April 14, 2009, 10:07:32 AM

further updates just landed in my mailbox:

Quote
Subject: URGENT NOTICE FOR CHINA VISA FROM CHINESE GOVERNMENT!!!!!

Dear my friends,

We just got a urgent notice from PSB that all visa applied after 8:30am of tomorrow-15th of April will be only allowed to be valid till 30th of September,coz the 60 anniversity of China is on 1sth of Oct.

That means although your visa is extended for 6 months,it will be only valid till 30th of September,so you have to leave China on that day or before that, nobody knows when it will go back to normal after the national day celebration.

Cost for F extension:
F to F,one year---1200RMB
F to F,6 month---800RMB
F to F,3 month---650RMB

Cost for switch from L to F:
L to F,6 months---2800RMB

If you or your friends need handle visa recently,hurry up!!!

not sure if this is Beijing only but this lady has been reliable so far.

Title: Re: A Hard Rain's Gonna Fall... (THE VISA NIGHTMARE!)
Post by: George on April 14, 2009, 11:11:11 AM
 bibibibibi What's this gonna do to Schools applying for Res Visas for the next year? Re-signing contracts, etc???
Title: Re: A Hard Rain's Gonna Fall... (THE VISA NIGHTMARE!)
Post by: Mr Nobody on April 14, 2009, 11:36:15 AM
L-F is 2,800? or 3,900? they can't make up their minds. I am suspecting an advertising ploy of some kind to some extent.

Wife agrees something of this kind is happening, but says this is just for USAnians. Apparently, with the upcoming nationalistic celebration, they are trying to reduce the number of people who support non-official and undesirable viewpoints on certain geographical locations, historical viewpoints, or philosophies. Apparently nationality determines these opinions. Or rather, that's my take on what was discussed.

Those of us of other perversions such as being Australian or British, have different situations, depending. Oz has some kind of nicer situation apparently. And if your visa extends well over the period, then it will settle down.

Not comforting words, I guess, for some, but I am OK, Jack.
Title: Re: A Hard Rain's Gonna Fall... (THE VISA NIGHTMARE!)
Post by: Nolefan on April 14, 2009, 12:21:57 PM
bibibibibi What's this gonna do to Schools applying for Res Visas for the next year? Re-signing contracts, etc???

As far as I know, this only apples for F and L visas. residence permits are not affected


Title: Re: A Hard Rain's Gonna Fall... (THE VISA NIGHTMARE!)
Post by: George on April 14, 2009, 12:32:15 PM
Quote
We just got a urgent notice from PSB that all visa applied after 8:30am of tomorrow-15th of April
Well, I hope so.
Title: Re: A Hard Rain's Gonna Fall... (THE VISA NIGHTMARE!)
Post by: old34 on April 14, 2009, 03:55:05 PM
Sounds like they are so happy the way it worked out for them last summer and fall (announced about the same time last year), they'll try it out again for this summer and fall's "events. Hey, maybe they'll make it an annual summer/fall event.
Title: Re: A Hard Rain's Gonna Fall... (THE VISA NIGHTMARE!)
Post by: mlaeux on April 14, 2009, 09:38:35 PM
OK, let me get this straight. I get a letter form my Chinese employer and get a Z - visa which entitles me to get a foreign expert certificate and residence permit. After a year - then what? Do I have to pay a fee and go to Hong Kong or will they automatically renew it if I decide to stay on at the same school? What if I change jobs? Do I have to start the process all over again?
Title: Re: A Hard Rain's Gonna Fall... (THE VISA NIGHTMARE!)
Post by: The Local Dialect on April 15, 2009, 06:33:31 AM
OK, let me get this straight. I get a letter form my Chinese employer and get a Z - visa which entitles me to get a foreign expert certificate and residence permit. After a year - then what? Do I have to pay a fee and go to Hong Kong or will they automatically renew it if I decide to stay on at the same school? What if I change jobs? Do I have to start the process all over again?

If you stay on at the same school they'll renew it for you, you won't have to leave the country. If you decide to switch schools then that really depends on the situation/timing of the visas, so it is hard to say at the moment. I've switched directly from one school's Z visa/residence permit to another's without leaving the country in the past (school one has to cooperate though).
Title: Re: A Hard Rain's Gonna Fall... (THE VISA NIGHTMARE!)
Post by: Raoul F. Duke on April 15, 2009, 11:54:51 PM
Yes...if you renew with the same school, they should handle all the Permit paperwork for you.

If you change schools after your contract, your old employer will have to write you a Release Letter. This is basically just a letter stating that you're no longer under contract with them, and bearing the official stamp of the employer. You can take this to the new employer and they can seamlessly get you a new set of Permits. The Release Letter has to be in Chinese, so it's not a bad idea to get a friend to read it over and make sure it doesn't include any little bombs for your new employer to see.

If you're negotiating early release from a contract, it's important to add a Release Letter to the terms of your separation.

In theory an employer is legally required to give you a Release Letter when you leave, but they've been known to pull some stunts here, especially if relations are bad. Stick to your guns here and make them give it to you...

If you pull a runner, you're going to be up the creek when Permit-renewal time comes around. You'll have to exit China- maybe as far as back home- and then start all over again and re-enter on new papers. An expensive hassle for most.

All this only applies to Work Permits and Residence Permits, not visas. If you're working on anything other than a Residence Permit you're already illegal anyway, so what the hell. bibibibibi
Title: Re: A Hard Rain's Gonna Fall... (THE VISA NIGHTMARE!)
Post by: paddyfields on May 07, 2009, 10:49:56 AM
China changes visa rules for US citizens
The Associated Press
Tue, May 5, 2009 (6:33 a.m.)
http://www.lasvegassun.com/news/2009/may/05/china-changes-visa-rules-for-us-citizens/
Quote
China has changed visa rules for citizens from the United States, which has reported the second highest number of swine flu cases in the world.

A notice dated May 3 on the Web site for the Chinese Embassy and its consulates in the U.S. said that all visa applications would now require six business days to process, with express and rush services for visa applications suspended until further notice.

It is unclear exactly why the rules have been changed, but it came hot on the heels of strident measures by China to contain any possible spread of swine flu, including quarantining of some foreign nationals.

The new visa regulation, effective as of May 4, appears to apply to all Chinese visas, including tourist and business categories. Visa applicants are also required to fill out a form declaring which countries and U.S. states they had visited two weeks prior.

Previously, U.S. nationals could obtain visas in as little as one day.

More than 1,400 people globally have been infected with swine flu, with Mexico reporting the most confirmed cases with 802. The United States so far has reported 380 cases in more than 30 states.

On Tuesday, Foreign Ministry spokesman Ma Zhaoxu refused to address the specific visa changes for Americans, saying only that "relevant adjustment (to the visa policy) is non-discriminatory and is not targeted at any country. The adjustment of visa policy will not affect the normal entry of foreigners and exchanges of people."

The new rules do not appear to be in effect for any other country, including Spain or Canada, where swine flu has also been detected.
Title: Re: A Hard Rain's Gonna Fall... (THE VISA NIGHTMARE!)
Post by: Nolefan on May 20, 2009, 06:00:16 PM

latest updates from Beijing:
Quote
L to F for half an year would be possible if you can provide two documents below:

1, if you work in a company, provide the copy of your company's duplicate business license with company's seal on.(only the company whose registration capital is more than 3500,000RMB can work)

2, an application report with your company's seal on( I have samples, anyone who needs the sample can contact me)

So obviously, if you are just a tourist and no any company providing you the documents above, L to F would not work for you.

Anyone who is in that situation and needs a half an year visa, feel free to contact me.

Meanwhile, till now the visa policy is updated like below:
1, All visa except for working visa are only allowed to be valid till 15th of Sept.
2, Not allowed to provide any invitation letter for Mexican.
3, Only Working visa can be beyond 15th of Sept, no restrictions on it.

Anyone who needs the service above, feel free to contact me on:
Tel: 150 010 28493
MSN/Email: jinnanwang2008@hotmail.com

Title: Re: A Hard Rain's Gonna Fall... (THE VISA NIGHTMARE!)
Post by: James the Brit on July 02, 2009, 03:52:24 PM
I applied for a 90 day L visa at the Chinese Consulate in Manchester (UK) today and was granted a 90 day visa. My visa is valid until October 2nd, a day after the anniversary. They didnt ask any questions.

I must have been in the consulate building for a grand total of 2 minutes. 1 minute to hand my passport over and another minute to pick it up a couple of hours later.
Title: Re: A Hard Rain's Gonna Fall... (THE VISA NIGHTMARE!)
Post by: babala on July 02, 2009, 05:49:19 PM
Canada is not the same. The visa form to fill out listed either a 30 or 60 day tourist visa but I was informed that the 60 day tourist visa was not available.
Title: Re: A Hard Rain's Gonna Fall... (THE VISA NIGHTMARE!)
Post by: друг всего мира on July 04, 2009, 01:48:09 PM
Dear Babala,

The Chinese government, at least in my understanding from what the PSB have told me directly, and from what my FAO has also told me, is not going to be issuing 60-day visas of any kind until after the end of October, 2009, in a redux of last year's scenario.  At least this is what I am hearing.

And yet, even though everyone hears that Z visas are not being in Hong Kong anymore, strangely enough a colleague of mine went to Hong Kong this week and is the proud recipient of a new Z visa.  Mind you, the FAO, who is both diligent and thoughtful here, had Hong Kong listed as the place of delivery for the Z visa on the letter of invitation.

Sorry to read about all of these troubles.  Many of us have been caught up in them at one point or another.

the mini-Pork Dumpling
Title: Re: A Hard Rain's Gonna Fall... (THE VISA NIGHTMARE!)
Post by: DaDan on July 04, 2009, 02:33:52 PM
Amended, now factual.

A friend that is presently staying in my Shenzhen extra bedroom, just returned from HK yesterday.

09/07/02
Canada passport...
470 HK$
Applied & issued at the HK China Embassy.
In by 9am, pick up 9am next day.

6 month double entry L/tourist visa with 30 day max stay. = 60 day L visa.
Expires Jan. 2nd.

Passport, one photo & application form is all they required..

Title: Re: A Hard Rain's Gonna Fall... (THE VISA NIGHTMARE!)
Post by: babala on July 04, 2009, 07:02:36 PM
Hey PD, that's what I thought too but James just got a 90 day tourist visa.

It's actually no big deal for me. I really just need a 30 day visa as my school is changing my visa over to a Z when I get there (no Hong Kong trip needed).
Title: Re: A Hard Rain's Gonna Fall... (THE VISA NIGHTMARE!)
Post by: Raoul F. Duke on July 05, 2009, 03:19:06 AM
This is what makes trying to advise people on this stuff so totally infuriating...and downright dangerous. Official rules notwithstanding, if you approach the right person at the right window at the right moment on the right day, pretty much anything could conceivably happen. Take that last sentence and substitute the word "wrong" for all the appearances of the word "right",and pretty much NOTHING could conceivably happen.

The only really reliable rule or advice seems to be, "Prepare for the worst, hope for the best." llllllllll
Title: Re: A Hard Rain's Gonna Fall... (THE VISA NIGHTMARE!)
Post by: друг всего мира on July 05, 2009, 03:30:14 AM
Raoul,

What you write is so, so true particularly in terms of China.  There is no uniform consistency, only a uniform inconsistency.

Last year a friend of mine went to the Shanghai PSB for a visa renewal.  Her papers were in complete disorder.  The clerk basically screamed at her and told her to go away.  Two days later, that clerk was on vacation.  The FAO took the candidate back to the PSB and they chatted with the replacement.  The new visa was issued in one week and truly my friend's papers were in the greatest disorder possible.  Not now, however.

Anecdotal, I know but we all saw this happen.

Kind regards,

the mini-Pork Dumpling
Title: Re: A Hard Rain's Gonna Fall... (THE VISA NIGHTMARE!)
Post by: Richy Lau on July 08, 2009, 05:43:01 AM
Hey, Raoul Duke! Here the topic I think is for Complained the Visa in china. right? but I would like to Swear what we asia people especially the chinese in western, the visa is hard to apply whatever you have a big reason. I been west for a couple years, the "W" visa is going hard up for it, the "S" visa is easy cause cost. I feel china is opening and visa devolping country there, you know we welcomed like a handrud years ago, The difference is that a handrud years ago the west arrvial in china with weapons, now without. bjbjbjbjbj
you know chinese saying:" American visa is world visa in anywhere ". but I have no idea for what you said "Z" or "L" visa meaning at all?
Title: Re: A Hard Rain's Gonna Fall... (THE VISA NIGHTMARE!)
Post by: Mr Nobody on July 08, 2009, 06:39:47 AM
The Oz govt just sent notice of certain changes in visas. Says that officially tourist and business visas are simply not going to be changed to other visas any more.

I know some people including me have known people who managed to do so, but apparently there has been a recent official policy change to stronger enforcement of the rules.

Several other rules have also been increased in enforcement, mostly to do with such things as F**** G*** and contraband, and business laws such as being detained if your company owes wages or there is a dispute about sackings etc.

AUstralians have apparently been deported for 'minor' things in regards visa issues, and jailed for overstaying visas.

So, less leeway in any breach of any rules and laws, guys.

Things are supposedly tightening up.

(I discussed (or tried to, he wasn't very forthcoming) this with my FAO and he said there is still no problem with me, although he strongly implied that it wasn't the case for others.)
Title: Re: A Hard Rain's Gonna Fall... (THE VISA NIGHTMARE!)
Post by: DaDan on July 24, 2009, 12:18:19 PM
09/07/23 U.S. pssport L visa, 6 month multi entry with 30 max entry.
1800 HK dollars(said F =1950)
Hong Kong agent, overnight service, 1photo, pssport & $$, needed a biz card with HK address, they made one for 80HK.

Crossing Shenzhen - HK & back nothin new noticed.
Title: Re: A Hard Rain's Gonna Fall... (THE VISA NIGHTMARE!)
Post by: El Macho on August 04, 2009, 01:32:40 PM
Just got a 30 day tourist visa in Seoul. Had to go through a travel agent, total cost for the visa and agent's fee was KRW140,000 or $115.45. Since I'm not applying from my home country, I could only get a 30 day visa.

Interestingly, I didn't actually have to fill out the application form, just submit one photograph. I was skeptical, but I have the visa in my passport.

Supposedly my uni will be able to get me on a student visa once I arrive...we shall see about that.
Title: Re: A Hard Rain's Gonna Fall... (THE VISA NIGHTMARE!)
Post by: Pashley on August 04, 2009, 02:04:44 PM
This is what makes trying to advise people on this stuff so totally infuriating...and downright dangerous. Official rules notwithstanding, if you approach the right person at the right window at the right moment on the right day, pretty much anything could conceivably happen. Take that last sentence and substitute the word "wrong" for all the appearances of the word "right",and pretty much NOTHING could conceivably happen.

Did that, got "wrong"! Went to Macau office.

In 2004, I got 6 month F (business) visa there, no problem, didn't even need letter from Chinese company. This time, I had letter, duly decorated with company seal. "We don't do F visas, go back to Canada for that."

Previous trips, I've got 30 day tourist visa and others got 90. This time, all they'd give me was 15!

Previous trips, apply in morning, pick up in afternoon. This time, on Friday morning, "Come back Monday." A weekend in Macau sounds like fun (it was), but the woman I left in Zhuhai, expecting me back in time to take her to dinner, won't be pleased (she wasn't).

Going to HK in a few days with a friend who has done it before there; hope that works better.
Title: Re: A Hard Rain's Gonna Fall... (THE VISA NIGHTMARE!)
Post by: James the Brit on May 14, 2011, 09:32:16 AM
What's the situation on getting Chinese visas in Hong Kong these days?

I need a 3 month F visa. Letter of invitation will be supplied by the company (a western mulitnational) I'll be with.
Title: Re: A Hard Rain's Gonna Fall... (THE VISA NIGHTMARE!)
Post by: Raoul F. Duke on May 14, 2011, 12:50:15 PM
As near as I can tell from a recent conversation with someone at China Travel Service (CTS), it's still OK to get L and F visas in HK. Z visas and residence permits, I fear, are a thing of the past. ananananan

What's really scary to me is that the CTS people- as in, the staff of the official state-owned Chinese company for handling visa applications- seem at least as befuddled about the current visa rules and regulations as we are. apapapapap ssssssssss

My advice would be to call CTS directly...you may not choose to get your visa through them (although they're who I always used myself), but they should be as good a choice as there is when it comes to learning the rules that any other visa agency will have to follow. If you're still in Canada or the USA, there should be an office there you can call toll-free. If you're already in China, get an IP card and call the HK office. Phone numbers are easy to find online. bjbjbjbjbj

And where, pray tell, is that visit down this way you were supposed to be making? asasasasas
Title: Re: A Hard Rain's Gonna Fall... (THE VISA NIGHTMARE!)
Post by: xwarrior on May 15, 2011, 01:33:19 AM
I think the visa situation is in condition 'normal' - which means that for most of the time you can get most of the visa types.

I got a Zvisa 6 months ago out of Hong Kong.

RD's advice to contact CTS is the way to go. My college used Everbright and it was a no-sweat operation. The agents know the current situation on a daily basis - and they also know how to solve any problem that might arise. TIC!


Title: Re: A Hard Rain's Gonna Fall... (THE VISA NIGHTMARE!)
Post by: jpd01 on May 15, 2011, 03:03:07 AM
If you are with a western company that is going to provide you with all the nessesary documents to apply for you F visa in an above board way then I don't think you should run into any serious problems getting an F visa.
Title: Re: A Hard Rain's Gonna Fall... (THE VISA NIGHTMARE!)
Post by: Noodles on May 15, 2011, 04:35:52 AM
Actually things are tightening up in HongKong again due to the Shenzhen Universiade coming up in August. In the last week i know 2 people who had trouble getting the visa they wanted in HK. One person was rejected for having too many F visas already in his passport??? and he had to get his wife to come across with their marriage papers to be allowed a new visa. The 2nd person applied for a 6 month F visa but was only granted a 1 month single entry visa for a cost of 2900rmb and was told it was due to the games.

If you can get your visa in any other country i'd recommend that option.

 
Title: Re: A Hard Rain's Gonna Fall... (THE VISA NIGHTMARE!)
Post by: Escaped Lunatic on May 16, 2011, 01:06:48 AM
I'm still getting over all the annoyances caused by the Guangzhou games. asasasasas

Maybe we need to change the title of this thread to "Big Sports Events and VISAs don't mix."
Title: Re: A Hard Rain's Gonna Fall... (THE VISA NIGHTMARE!)
Post by: fullricebowl on May 16, 2011, 01:27:20 PM
Although anecdotal evidence may not mean anything in terms of solid advice or recommendations, I'll share my recent experiences:

Last spring, I left China on the expiration of a residence permit and got a new, 90 day F visa in Nagasaki, Japan. I was visiting a friend and the consulate in Nagasaki was very small- in fact I didn't see any people there who were not working there.. it was very relaxing and a far cry from the stressful 1 hour plus queues and hassles I encountered in San Francisco.

In February I got a new Z visa in Hong Kong, no problems. I was told that this would not have worked at any other consulate/embassy as HK was specified on one of my documents (invitation letter I believe?) I would certainly like to think an F should be more straightforward.
Title: Re: A Hard Rain's Gonna Fall... (THE VISA NIGHTMARE!)
Post by: xwarrior on May 16, 2011, 02:06:50 PM
Quote
I was told that this would not have worked at any other consulate/embassy as HK was specified on one of my documents (invitation letter I believe?)
ance

I think that is something we overlook - mainly because it is usually not a problem.

But, it is something to keep in mind when they do tighten up on the issue of Zvisas from HK. It would pay to talk things over with an FAO to make sure the Invitation Letter specifies Hong Kong as the place of issuance. 
Title: Re: A Hard Rain's Gonna Fall... (THE VISA NIGHTMARE!)
Post by: James the Brit on June 27, 2011, 05:53:22 AM
French passport-first visa-possession of a HK ID although not permanent resident-L visa-double entry-can enter China anytime between tomorrow and Sept 28th-visa issued in Hong Kong

This is all I know now. Will keep you all posted. Unfortunately getting an F visa on a French passport is a pain. My company (a big western multinational) looked it up for me and they said they needed authorization from the trade Ministry. So, I have to get an L. Also had to provide travel insurance.

The moral of the story: If you have a french passport plus other, opt for other. Nolefan...
Title: Re: A Hard Rain's Gonna Fall... (THE VISA NIGHTMARE!)
Post by: James the Brit on July 27, 2011, 09:32:59 AM
French passport-HK ID-F visa-6 months-multiple entry-30 days per entry
Title: Re: A Hard Rain's Gonna Fall... (THE VISA NIGHTMARE!)
Post by: Raoul F. Duke on July 27, 2011, 10:35:27 AM
Aw, guys... llllllllll ananananan

An F (Business) Visa DOES NOT generally confer the right to work for a Chinese company, or rent your own apartment. It's sometimes used for Guest Lecturers and other such short-term visiting workers, but in most cases it's intended for people working for a FOREIGN company, living in company housing, and getting some or all salary in a foreign currency.

That's the law. vvvvvvvvvv

Yeah, some people do it and it often works out OK, but it's not really legal...and this establishment will only endorse being 100% legal.
At least when it comes to visa/permit stuff. uuuuuuuuuu

So please...don't count on staying long on an F Visa. Get a Residence Permit and Work Permit immediately after entry...or don't take the job. kkkkkkkkkk
Title: Re: A Hard Rain's Gonna Fall... (THE VISA NIGHTMARE!)
Post by: Nolefan on July 27, 2011, 11:34:10 AM
What Raoul said.. as far as work!
An F visa only RARELY gives you permission for real work in China ( we won't talk about the exceptions)

however, and it's a big one, it does NOT prevent you from renting an apartment or opening bank accounts, at least not in Beijing. Those days are long gone! All you need for those, legally, is a valid visa.. whatever visa. There are some exception but they are more often than not related to the place you intend to stay if they are "restricted".. i.e compounds close to a military base, etc..

Title: Re: A Hard Rain's Gonna Fall... (THE VISA NIGHTMARE!)
Post by: James the Brit on July 27, 2011, 04:38:38 PM
I work for a dutch multinational and get paid in HKD. My contract is with the HK office...
Title: Re: A Hard Rain's Gonna Fall... (ANOTHER VISA NIGHTMARE!)
Post by: A-Train on August 16, 2011, 04:02:51 PM
Question: I recently renewed my American passport.  The Work Permit and Invitation Letter I just received from my uni references the old passport number.  Does anyone know for sure if I can bring my old and new passport to the Consulate and still obtain a "Z" Visa?  Or do I need to have the Work Permit and Letter re-issued with the new number?

My uni does not seem to know the answer and asked me to call the Chinese Consulate in the U.S. to find out.  Talking to human being, let alone getting a knowledgeable answer, has been an adventure, but I'm still trying.

Thanks in advance for any advice.
Title: Re: A Hard Rain's Gonna Fall... (THE VISA NIGHTMARE!)
Post by: Raoul F. Duke on August 16, 2011, 04:25:51 PM
Hey A-Train, great question. I don't know the answer here, either. bibibibibi

However, it seems to me that the Chinese, not the Americans, set these rules and need to answer this question... and it seems pretty lame of your employer to a) point you in that direction and b) lay all this on YOU. asasasasas
Chinese visas and permits are issued by the Chinese government, and the US Consulates don't get involved in the rules pertaining to those documents.

My advice? Visit (or better yet, have your employer visit) the local PSB Foreign Affairs office. They should be able to set everyone straight on how to handle all this.
Title: Re: A Hard Rain's Gonna Fall... (THE VISA NIGHTMARE!)
Post by: A-Train on August 16, 2011, 06:50:57 PM
Thanks.  I'll mention that to them, but won't hold my breath.  I called the Chinese Consulate in Chicago and got conflicting answers, (of course), but the one who actually checked with someone who handles visas told me that the permit and letter has to be re-issued and reference the new passport number.

Really wish I hadn't done this but my uni advised me to renew my passport even though it doesn't expire for 11 months. A good idea in theory, but lost in the execution.
Title: Re: A Hard Rain's Gonna Fall... (THE VISA NIGHTMARE!)
Post by: xwarrior on August 16, 2011, 07:42:59 PM
I returned to New Zealand for a holiday on 20 July and found that I had to renew my passport - while most visas need 3 mths left on the passport a Zvisa requires 12mths.

My new employer had already applied for a Work Permit/invitation Letter using my old passport number and I was asked to notify them of my new number as the documents could only be issued against a current passport.

Once they had the new number it took 2 days for them to have the documents issued and in the hands of the couriers. Delivery to me took 4 days.

The embassy here does not accept email copies of documents.

The passport number has to match numbers on any documents.

     
Title: Re: A Hard Rain's Gonna Fall... (THE VISA NIGHTMARE!)
Post by: A-Train on August 16, 2011, 09:29:59 PM
I was having a hard time even talking to anyone at the Chicago Consulate so I wrote out my question and faxed it to both Chicago and Washington DC. To my amazement, both called me at home within a few hours.  Washington said "absolutely not" while Chicago said "yes" and also that they would accept e-mailed or faxed documents for the application.  Are they just screwing with my head or is this business as usual?  Never mind, I know the answer. It's BOTH.
Title: Re: A Hard Rain's Gonna Fall... (THE VISA NIGHTMARE!)
Post by: Escaped Lunatic on August 17, 2011, 01:39:03 AM
I got 2 different answers to another question from the emabassy in DC.  If I wrote in English, the answer was always "No".  If I had someone write in Chinese, it was always "Yes, of course."

I've never heard of any Chinese embassy or consulate accepting items by fax, but if it's supplemental materials or corrections, they might or might not, or might say yes and mean no, or might say no and mean yes, etc., etc.
Title: Re: A Hard Rain's Gonna Fall... (THE VISA NIGHTMARE!)
Post by: becster79 on August 17, 2011, 02:34:29 AM
I went through the same thing about 3 years ago. On a 2 year contract, visa expired August/ September (can't remember now), and passport was expiring the FOLLOWING December (so less than 6 months left once I renewed the visa).

Called and called and called the embassy (as well as several emails) to see what I should do. FINALLY got hold of someone about 2 days before flying out again- they said I needed to get a new visa in the new passport  aoaoaoaoao! Rushed down to the city next day and got a rush L visa. School wasn't happy I returned on this and had to redo the paperwork again, but what was I to do? I highly doubt I'd be able to do this now!
Title: Re: A Hard Rain's Gonna Fall... (THE VISA NIGHTMARE!)
Post by: latefordinner on August 17, 2011, 03:14:55 AM
Thanks for bringing this Q up, A-train.
I've got something similar to worry about. My passport expires early next year, and I've been offered a place at a pretty good school this fall. Surely they can offer me a position for one semester and I can get a z visa based on that, then renew my passport during the winter break? That's what I'd like to think, but I can hear a little voice telling me that ain't quite so.
Title: Re: A Hard Rain's Gonna Fall... (THE VISA NIGHTMARE!)
Post by: Raoul F. Duke on August 17, 2011, 12:05:13 PM
Yep...every Chinese Consulate has its own rules on visa matters. bibibibibi
And anyway, if you're already in China, the inert and officious bozos in foreign-located Consulates have nothing whatsoever to do with getting a visa or permit locally. It all comes down to the local and/or provincial Labor Bureau and police...and THAT'S where the inquiries should be going. vvvvvvvvvv

On renewing your passport...some locales require that your passport either match or somewhat exceed your contract time before they can get you a Permit. That's probably why they asked you to go ahead and renew.
Title: Re: A Hard Rain's Gonna Fall... (THE VISA NIGHTMARE!)
Post by: xwarrior on August 20, 2011, 06:40:11 PM
I had to get a new passport last month because the supplementary Form B for a Zvisa in New Zealand states that you need 12 months on the current passport, rather than the 3months required for other visas.

 
Title: Re: A Hard Rain's Gonna Fall... (THE VISA NIGHTMARE!)
Post by: Escaped Lunatic on August 22, 2011, 01:56:14 AM
I had to get a new passport last month because the supplementary Form B for a Zvisa in New Zealand states that you need 12 months on the current passport, rather than the 3months required for other visas.

That sort of makes sense.  A z visa converts to a Res Permit, and those can be for up to 12 months at a time.
Title: Re: A Hard Rain's Gonna Fall... (THE VISA NIGHTMARE!)
Post by: xwarrior on August 22, 2011, 03:47:54 AM
I had to get a new passport last month because the supplementary Form B for a Zvisa in New Zealand states that you need 12 months on the current passport, rather than the 3months required for other visas.

That sort of makes sense.  A z visa converts to a Res Permit, and those can be for up to 12 months at a time.


Yes it does make sense. Something to keep in mind when coming to the end of a contract period.   

My bitch is with the NZ Govt because they now issue passports for 5 yrs - used to be for 10 yrs. After paying $$$ for a 5yr passport I could, depending on when I start a new contract, be getting a passport that is only useful for 4yrs.

Title: Re: A Hard Rain's Gonna Fall... (THE VISA NIGHTMARE!)
Post by: A-Train on September 14, 2011, 04:56:06 AM
A curious little twist. All of my phone calls, e-mails and phone mails never led to any responses from the Chinese consulate.  However, when I wrote out my problem and questions, printed and faxed them, both the Washington and Chicago consulates called me back within a few hours and the latter was extremely flexible and helpful.  Who would have thougth that a fax would be the "magic bullet"?
Title: Re: A Hard Rain's Gonna Fall... (THE VISA NIGHTMARE!)
Post by: adamsmith on October 28, 2011, 02:52:35 AM
Just a warning to those of you considering working on an L or F visa. I am currently in Zhangjiagang in Jiangsu province. The local police just did a check on all the schools here and have ejected 27 foreign teachers from China for working on L and F visas at the schools. Currently there are now only two of the mills here that are now allowed to hire foreigners because the others all breached the law and have had their licenses revoked. I am not sure which two remain.

From what I understand this is becoming more common around China and is increasing the likely hood of getting caught. If you can afford to come here and then have to buy a ticket out of here then take your chances but I am sure you will not enjoy it as it can be a costly gamble. I will reiterate the previous advice given many times - Always work legally and save on any problems. bjbjbjbjbj
Title: Re: A Hard Rain's Gonna Fall... (THE VISA NIGHTMARE!)
Post by: Raoul F. Duke on October 28, 2011, 11:12:46 AM
Thanks, Adam, for saying it so beautifully.
There are always some people who don't believe working on anything less than a Residence Permit will cause them any problems, perhaps because they don't WANT to believe working on anything less than a Residence Permit will cause them any problems.

A lot of places really are cracking down on illegal workers. That's the reality. It can only be ignored at one's considerable peril.
Title: Re: A Hard Rain's Gonna Fall... (THE VISA NIGHTMARE!)
Post by: Escaped Lunatic on December 09, 2011, 06:16:54 AM
If any of you do work illegally, get caught, and get sent to the Guangdong #7 Re-education Center for Badly Behaved English Teachers, please give my regards to the warden and staff.  Once they find out you know me, they'll make sure to give you special treatment. ahahahahah
Title: Re: A Hard Rain's Gonna Fall... (THE VISA NIGHTMARE!)
Post by: DC@54055 on January 10, 2012, 07:19:26 AM
So....I'm reviving this post!

It looks like I'm going to work for a school in Cangnan. BUT, they are having me come in on an L visa. They have done this process with several teachers already and I feel confident that it will work.

Here is what he told me about the process about getting me the proper visa workup (after I arrive, he made it sound like getting the L visa to get to China was easy. The L visa conversion while in China requires the effort)

Here is a brief outline of what we will do for the visa process when you arrive on an L-visa.
 -------
"Within 24 hours we will register you with the local police station. Then take you to the Wenzhou Entry Exit health center for a medical  examination. After that is done, the school will process you a work permit from the Foreign experts bureau then a formal letter of invitation from the Foreign affairs office. The letter should take 5 to 7 business days after I have given them a copy of your healthy check, scanned copy of your degree and contract that has been certified by the local Social security office. Then we will fly you to Hong Kong, where you will appy for a Z (work) visa which should take 24 hours. After returning to Wenzhou you will need to get one more health check, then the Foreign experts office will issue you a Foreign Expert ceritifcate which is what you need to be a licensed teacher. Then within 30 days of you returning to China on your Z visa we must process you a residence permit at the Entry exit bureau at the police station. This residence permit will be valid until after the duration of your contract."
-------
This is from an english guy who is working with the school. He is part owner in the school and he has really made me confident in the procedure. I have also talked to a teacher at the school and he raised no qualms about the creation of his visa. Also, the medical exams and visa itself is all paid for by the school. A big plus!

Here is a brief outline of what we will do for the visa process when you arrive on an L-visa.
 
My question: how does this sound to you saloon members? Especially those of you who have experience with these visa things?
Title: Re: A Hard Rain's Gonna Fall... (THE VISA NIGHTMARE!)
Post by: Escaped Lunatic on January 10, 2012, 07:40:34 AM
My biggest question would be why they don't go ahead and process you directly to a Z visa from your home country.  Sure, some teachers might chicken out, thus wasting time and effort on this, but sending someone on an extra trip to HK from anywhere north of Guangzhou is also going to cost a few kuai.
Title: Re: A Hard Rain's Gonna Fall... (THE VISA NIGHTMARE!)
Post by: Riz on January 12, 2012, 08:17:31 AM
Hey EL and friends
I came back to my hometown in pakistan last year on 29th July, safe and sound in one piece. I tried so hard to get another school that could offer me residence permit and i failed. I did not over stay or anything and bought a ticket back home where things are never smooth. Here, I found a teaching job that pays me only 200 dollars a month. I am sticking to it as I have no choice but I see a light at the end of the tunnel as this school in Jilin has my documents approved from the Govt and they will send me an invitation. I can get Z visa again to get back to big silly. Life has not been settling down for over two years now. I study Buddhism on my own to keep calm, quiet and collected. Pray for me! I am awaiting that invitation now which will arrive in three weeks time.
Title: Re: A Hard Rain's Gonna Fall... (THE VISA NIGHTMARE!)
Post by: Raoul F. Duke on January 12, 2012, 09:32:00 AM
Sounds like good news is on the wind! Possibly a little off-topic here, perhaps, but good news nonetheless. agagagagag
Title: Re: A Hard Rain's Gonna Fall... (THE VISA NIGHTMARE!)
Post by: xwarrior on April 27, 2012, 11:28:52 AM
Time to get the umbrellas out again!

Any time the g*vt says it is going to make life easier for us - including those who are following all the rules - you can bet that the outcome will be  kkkkkkkkkk

Quote
Visa runners beware! The crackdown cometh

China state-owned media is once again reporting a crackdown on foreigners who live, work and travel the country without the proper credentials. This story began to make significant rounds on China Daily and its affiliates at the end of last year with the introduction of a new law that creates more administrative departments that would collect and store biometric data for improved organization. It would also enhance the tracking of arrival and departure from the country by foreigners and Chinese citizens. . .

 More at  http://shanghaiist.com/2012/04/27/visa-crackdown.php
Title: Re: A Hard Rain's Gonna Fall... (THE VISA NIGHTMARE!)
Post by: Ruth on April 27, 2012, 12:21:58 PM
Not sure if this is related or not. Got my visa in my passport (only 24 days late this year  ::) ). No sooner did I have it back in my hot little hands than the FAO wanted it back again. The campus police want to make a copy.

Me: Fine. I'll take it to their office; it will be quicker that way.
FAO: No, they need to keep it.
Me: Why? I want it back before the holiday.

Last time we did this the guy took it into the back room and copied it. This year they want to SCAN it into the computer. No scanner at their office, which is why they need to keep it for awhile.

New technology, Big Brother, or both? I've got nothing (much) to hide  :wtf:
Title: Re: A Hard Rain's Gonna Fall... (THE VISA NIGHTMARE!)
Post by: Raoul F. Duke on April 27, 2012, 06:33:34 PM
Yeowtch! aoaoaoaoao
Do stop by and let them scan it, but can't advise letting them keep your papers. If trouble arises, get your Consulate involved right away!

Maybe mentioning that you want to notify your Consulate will bring resolution...?
Title: Re: A Hard Rain's Gonna Fall... (THE VISA NIGHTMARE!)
Post by: Clos on April 28, 2012, 08:27:22 AM
The government office in Zhengzhou will NOT do the paperwork for my foreign expert certificate until I pay them a bribe.

Their exact words were that I need a TEFL, and for 4500RMB I can "start the course", and they will "give me the foreign expert certificate once I start".  I told them I will take a TEFL course online, and they said no, it has to be their Chinese kickback school.

My school is very unhappy, seeing how they've paid for everything so far and want to buy my ticket to HK to get my visa.


Is this an issue I can take up with the consulate? 
Title: Re: A Hard Rain's Gonna Fall... (THE VISA NIGHTMARE!)
Post by: Ruth on April 28, 2012, 12:32:28 PM
Yeowtch! aoaoaoaoao
Do stop by and let them scan it, but can't advise letting them keep your papers. If trouble arises, get your Consulate involved right away!

Maybe mentioning that you want to notify your Consulate will bring resolution...?
It's not that serious. They don't want to keep it forever and ever. They just needed a day or two to take it to ??? (I don't know) to get it scanned. I was supposed to get it back today. Poor student intern working in the FAO office is trying so hard. She had to tell me that it wasn't ready this morning. The police officer (apparently only one guy can do this - you know how that is) was too busy due to the Big 20th Anniversary Celebration happening on campus today. I know. That's why I suggested waiting until after the holiday. He's the one who insisted it had to be done Right Away.

Anyway, I got my passport back after being quite firm about it. It never left campus. I have to take it back in after the holiday.
Title: Re: A Hard Rain's Gonna Fall... (THE VISA NIGHTMARE!)
Post by: Raoul F. Duke on April 28, 2012, 06:51:13 PM
Wow, Clos...that's one ugly spot.
Sounds like a new city is a good idea...this is one of the worst stories I've heard. Are you really sure you want to stay in Zhengzhou? oooooooooo

Otherwise, there may be nothing you or the Consulate can do. It sounds like the Zhengzhou guv has it set up all nice and legal-like, and the Consulate can't do anything about Chinese law. llllllllll

Another option would be to just not take the FEC. If you have a Residence Permit, that's all you really need anyway unless you're needing to send money home frequently. bfbfbfbfbf
Title: Re: A Hard Rain's Gonna Fall... (THE VISA NIGHTMARE!)
Post by: xwarrior on April 29, 2012, 07:01:00 AM
Clos:
First time I have heard that a TEFL is required for an FEC.

My thinking is that if you have:
1. a degree
2. 2 years of work experience
you should be able to get an FEC.

I am not sure if your consulate can help, but anything is worth a shot. A call to SAFEA in Beijing could 'clarify' policy in Zhengzhou.

I am not sure what kind of visa your school has in mind when looking at HK for a solution. The only appropriate visa they could issue is a Zvisa - and that would just put you back in Zhengzhou facing an application for an FEC from the same department.

Quote
Another option would be to just not take the FEC. If you have a Residence Permit, that's all you really need anyway unless you're needing to send money home frequently.


I think you need the FEC to be eligible for a Residence Permit. mmmmmmmmmm
Title: Re: A Hard Rain's Gonna Fall... (THE VISA NIGHTMARE!)
Post by: Clos on April 29, 2012, 08:19:45 AM
Clos:
First time I have heard that a TEFL is required for an FEC.

My thinking is that if you have:
1. a degree
2. 2 years of work experience
you should be able to get an FEC.

I am not sure if your consulate can help, but anything is worth a shot. A call to SAFEA in Beijing could 'clarify' policy in Zhengzhou.

I am not sure what kind of visa your school has in mind when looking at HK for a solution. The only appropriate visa they could issue is a Zvisa - and that would just put you back in Zhengzhou facing an application for an FEC from the same department.

No, the TEFL is not required for a FEC/Z-Visa like the office is saying.  They're telling me the money is to pay for the class to get a TEFL.  When asked if having a TEFL already would be sufficient, they said no.  There will be no real TEFL coming out of this.

It's a bribe, plain and simple.  The government office wants 4500 RMB to do their damn job and process my paperwork.  I have the degree and work experience, and even my poorly translated CV shows this.

All the foreigners at my school and 4 other foreigners I had dinner with (from Luoyang Normal University) all came here on tourist visa and flew to HK to get a Z-visa.  This seems to be a pretty regular process, not to mention my school pays 100% of the costs.

I guess my question is how can I get a friggin government office to do their job without being hassled for a ridiculous bribe?  The only thing I can think of is threatening with the US Embassy and the negative attention (bad for face?) I could drum up.

I really do not wish to leave Henan
Title: Re: A Hard Rain's Gonna Fall... (THE VISA NIGHTMARE!)
Post by: Fozzwaldus on April 30, 2012, 01:17:26 AM
Something similar happened to me a long long time ago in Golmud, Qinghai province...

I thought that this sort of BS was fading away in modern China, especially in a big(ish) city like Zhengzhou.

Don't pay the bribe. F-'em. Scumbags.
Title: Re: A Hard Rain's Gonna Fall... (THE VISA NIGHTMARE!)
Post by: NATO on April 30, 2012, 02:38:30 AM
Yeah thems some shady goings on. I think El Macho's advice is sound - try and get the name and officer number of those involved then go to SAFEA.
Title: Re: A Hard Rain's Gonna Fall... (THE VISA NIGHTMARE!)
Post by: Rin on May 02, 2012, 01:59:24 AM
Hi all,
I am in Hebei and was told last year, when I renewed my contract, if I wanted to renew again this year I had to get a TEFL. Though I was free to choose the company, and didn't have to pay any bribe.
Title: Re: A Hard Rain's Gonna Fall... (THE VISA NIGHTMARE!)
Post by: Raoul F. Duke on May 02, 2012, 02:04:29 AM
Yep...BA and TEFL isn't universally required yet, but seems to be a growing trend. bibibibibi
Title: Re: A Hard Rain's Gonna Fall... (THE VISA NIGHTMARE!)
Post by: Rin on May 02, 2012, 11:37:31 AM
I don't have a BA and that was difficult to get around last year! Mainly because the recruiter I had used the year before had used fake documents, so it was on record that I had a BA.. I didn't know they had done this til I was applying for a job myself without a recruiter.  bibibibibi
Title: Re: A Hard Rain's Gonna Fall... (THE VISA NIGHTMARE!)
Post by: old34 on May 02, 2012, 11:43:53 AM
A roundabout way of affirming that: "Yes, a B.A. is pretty much required these days."
Title: Re: A Hard Rain's Gonna Fall... (THE VISA NIGHTMARE!)
Post by: Rin on May 02, 2012, 11:50:22 AM
Yeah, I think I will be ok if i stay with my current employer.. Well, I hope so!
Title: Re: A Hard Rain's Gonna Fall... (THE VISA NIGHTMARE!)
Post by: Clos on May 03, 2012, 07:34:53 AM
Thank you to everyone that gave advice.

A very wise person sent me a few PM's to help me get this mess sorted out.  Most of it was just a communication problem between a group of Chinese people not wishing to lose face with each other.

Title: Re: A Hard Rain's Gonna Fall... (THE VISA NIGHTMARE!)
Post by: cruisemonkey on May 03, 2012, 08:32:38 AM
A very wise person sent me a few PM's to help me get this mess sorted out.  Most of it was just a communication problem between a group of Chinese people not wishing to lose face with each other.

I'm glad it all worked out. I got my FEC & RP in Zhengzhou... no problem (but I have a TESOL Certificate).

This thread made me realize something -
I would never council anyone to do anything illegal that might get them: fired, detained, fined and deported; but in the entire process from job application to receiving the FEC & RP after arrival, I never showed 'originals' of my documents (except the 'Physical Examination Record For Foreigner' form... which the Consulate wanted to issue the Z visa) to anyone. Getting the 'Working Permit' and 'Letter of Invitation' was all done with scanned copies of of my sheepskin and TESOL.

I was sorely tempted to save myself $327.00 and have a fake, 'Dr's. office' stamp made and forge the PREFF. I would have been so easy.

To get a Korean work visa, you have to show originals of everything. They also have to be apostiled (or verified by a Korean Embassy/Consulate if your country is not party to the Apostile Treaty) and notarized. What a world of difference!
Title: Re: A Hard Rain's Gonna Fall... (THE VISA NIGHTMARE!)
Post by: Nolefan on May 03, 2012, 10:42:27 AM
lucky.. in Beijing, it's been all originals or nothing for a few years already, especially when working in normal companies. And they're not joking about this at all..

no original degree = no papers..
Title: Re: A Hard Rain's Gonna Fall... (THE VISA NIGHTMARE!)
Post by: cruisemonkey on May 03, 2012, 08:11:34 PM
TIC... in China or out, the only consistancy is inconsistancy. Laws and regulations are either interpreted or 'made up' by by individuals on whims that some how seem to always line that individual's pockets... but are justified by being "For the good of the people".

When I applied for my Z visa, I was told I must supply a round-trip ticket to the Consulate. Of course, one cannot find out exactly what is required because the Consulate does not publish the requirements and no one will answer the phone or emails... one must go through a travel agent and cannot apply 'in person'.

This how the conversation went -
TA: "You seem to have everything so I will book you a ticket... we have better price than anything you can find online."
CM: "Cool... but I'll book a ticket after I get the visa."
TA: "You must submit round-trip itinerary to get visa. I will book you a ticket."
CM: "I'm not applying for an 'L', it's a 'Z'... a work visa, so I don't need a round-trip ticket... and I don't ever want to come back to Canada."
TA: "Consulate change rules last week."
CM: "That makes no sense."
TA: "Sorry... I must give Consulate itinerary."
CM: "Itinerary... or ticket?"
TA: "Itinerary. I will book you a ticket."
CM: "No, I will buy a one-way ticket after I get the visa."
TA: "You must have itinerary."
CM: "So... make up a fuckin' itinerary."
TA: "One moment please... I will phone the visa expert." (ten-minute phone call in Mandarin) "Sorry, price on website is wrong."
CM: "Price for the visa... or airfare?
TA: "Price for visa."
CM: "How did I know this was coming."
TA: (Puzzled look)
CM: "How much?"
TA: "$173.00"
CM: "Okay."
TA: "You must pay cash for visa... ticket you can pay cash or credit card."
CM: "I'm not buying a ticket until I have the visa.
TA: "One moment please... I will phone visa expert." (Ten-minute phone call in Mandarin) "Good news... you don't need round-trip ticket because it is Z visa."
CM: "No shit."
TA: "I will book you a one-way ticket."
CM: "Jesus H. Fucking Christ, how many fuckin' times do I have to fuckin' tell you I'm not buying a fuckin' ticket until I have fuckin' VISA!"
TA: "Oh... I'll just make up an itinerary then."
CM: "Brilliant. You do that."
TA: "When do you need visa?"
CM: "Well, the contract starts February 1 and today's January 25 so I guess as soon as possible."
TA: "Normal processing time is ten working days but we can do faster if you pay more."
CM: "How much more?"
TA: "It depends."
CM: "Yeah, yeah just tell me how much... and remember the fuckin' Consulate is closed for New Year... Gung Hey Fat Choi."
TA: "Okay... I will give to Consulate and book you ticket."  
bibibibibi

I was issued the visa despite my name being misspelled on the WP; bought a ticket after I got the visa and was only three days late arrivng in China.  bjbjbjbjbj
Title: Re: A Hard Rain's Gonna Fall... (THE VISA NIGHTMARE!)
Post by: becster79 on May 18, 2012, 06:59:33 AM
Unsure if this is just a Shenzhen or Guangdong or even nationwide thing, but just got home from some work training & the guard of my building stopped me to fill in a police form, checking visas & res permits, basically checking up on where I live. Not sure if this is a regular occurence or directly related to the Beijing incident of late but I am possibly expecting a knock on the door in the next few days!
Title: Re: A Hard Rain's Gonna Fall... (THE VISA NIGHTMARE!)
Post by: xwarrior on May 18, 2012, 07:47:02 AM
Unsure if this is just a Shenzhen or Guangdong or even nationwide thing, but just got home from some work training & the guard of my building stopped me to fill in a police form, checking visas & res permits, basically checking up on where I live. Not sure if this is a regular occurence or directly related to the Beijing incident of late but I am possibly expecting a knock on the door in the next few days!

There is an old adage that 'whatever happens in Beijing the other provinces will follow.'

The checking may not be in exactly the same shape or form as Beijing, but I am sure there will be something happening, sometime, everywhere in China. 
Title: Re: A Hard Rain's Gonna Fall... (THE VISA NIGHTMARE!)
Post by: becster79 on May 18, 2012, 12:09:35 PM
Cruisemonkey, not surprised! Stoopid airline at the airport wasn't going to let me on the plane because I only had a 1 way ticket, with z visa. They didn't even know the rules. I told them I've been doing it for 7 years but they didn't believe me, until the checkin counter clerk called her superior. She got the okay, then charged me extra for 1 small extra bag (even though I was well under weight). She was obviously having a bad day!
Title: Re: A Hard Rain's Gonna Fall... (THE VISA NIGHTMARE!)
Post by: cruisemonkey on May 18, 2012, 01:25:39 PM
At the risk of going off topic, airline baggage rules are something of which all newbies - and vetrans - should be aware. I've flown A LOT over the years but in the last six months things have changed drastically. Read the fine print (or try to decypher the airline's website) in your contract with the carrier so you don't have any nasty  surprises at the airport. They've gone 'psycho' on overweight and/or pieces. One kg in the wong bag could cost you more than the friggin' ticket if you can't get rid of the weight or move it to another bag... I'm talkin' astronomical figures (depending on the carrier).

When I left Korea last Sept. (after 6 years one accumulates a fair bit of 'stuff') I flew to Copenhagen through Dubai on Emirates. Checking-in at Incheon, I was overweight by 1.5 kg in one checked bag... and the other was 'maxed out'. If I had not been able to transfer those 1.5 kg to my carry-on bags I would have had to purchase a 3rd checked bag at a cost of $1100.00 USD (or leave it in K-land)!

When I was coming to China from Canada, I found out Air Canada now only allows one, 'free' checked bag on international flights   aoaoaoaoao (I didn't fly Air Canada).

One should not let the Chinese 'travel mafia' - all in cahoots with the Embassys/Consulates - book one's ticket(s) before you have a visa. They don't care you're moving half-way around the world on a semi-permanent basis... you're just another tourist 'ripe for the taking' to them.
Title: Re: A Hard Rain's Gonna Fall... (THE VISA NIGHTMARE!)
Post by: Escaped Lunatic on May 19, 2012, 02:59:46 AM
An occasional visit from one's friendly neighborhood PSB isn't anything to be too worried about.  I fill out piles of papers ever year, but they've been known to come by and check on me every now and then.

Yeah, the airlines have been getting worse and worse about bags.  I barely beat the purchase date deadline last year on a change from 2 free checked bags to 1 free checked bag on a trip from HK to the US.  On the way back, some weasel tried to charge me extra and I had to explain reality to him.  This year, I'm going to have to travel light.
Title: Re: A Hard Rain's Gonna Fall... (THE VISA NIGHTMARE!)
Post by: Stil on May 19, 2012, 04:44:42 AM
All of this doesn't bother me in the slightest. I'm legal. If you are not.... Why not?
Title: Re: A Hard Rain's Gonna Fall... (THE VISA NIGHTMARE!)
Post by: xwarrior on May 25, 2012, 12:54:56 PM
Stand by for some form of backlash:

Confucius confusion: Teachers at Chinese institutes must leave US

"US authorities have said all Chinese teachers lecturing at Confucius Institutes in the United States must leave the country before the end of June for visa violations. Chinese authorities are negotiating with their US counterparts over the matter.

The Department of State said on May 17 that Chinese teachers who entered the US on a J-1 visa, the non-immigrant visa issued to exchange visitors taking part in programs that promote cultural exchanges, must wrap up their teaching activities at the institutes before the end of June and leave the country. Visas will not be re-issued for those who need to apply for proper visas in China in order to return to America.

Hong Lei, spokesman of China's Ministry of Foreign Affairs, said that Chinese authorities have opened negotiations with the US side in the hope of continuing the program of normal cultural exchanges.

Teachers with a J-1 visa are not allowed to teach in American elementary or junior high schools but are eligible to deliver lectures in authorized educational institutes above junior high school level. In many US schools, Confucius Institutes are the main sources of Chinese language learning. The move by the institutes to recruit students from kindergarten to senior high school age has violated the visa regulation..."

http://www.wantchinatimes.com/news-subclass-cnt.aspx?id=20120525000119&cid=1101

Not sure what the authorities will do - but I am pretty sure they will do something. Might even lose the use of the apocryphal bicycle mentioned in so many contracts.  aoaoaoaoao