Raoul's China Saloon (V5.0) Beta
The Bar Room => The Bar (ON-TOPIC) => Topic started by: dragonized on March 24, 2010, 06:16:21 PM
-
Yeah to the handful of souls who have been blacklisted by the vindictive schools out there, I pray for you and want to let your guys know that runners have been pulled by most if not all of us in the past. But the strict transition "policies" that were meant to make things fair are only being used by the schools to get revenge on the louwai. Please keep your heads up and know that there are better places for you to go to if this country doesn't want you here. People who only want to use us for our knowledge but don't want to treat us as equals aren't worth losing sleep or energy over. May all of you ppl find better jobs elsewhere.
-
Don't really disagree, but I wonder if there's a country where you can teach English, where you WILL be treated like an equal? mmmmmmmmmm
It certainly won't be China. Or anywhere else in Asia.... bibibibibi
-
Curious...can you tell us how you got blacklisted?
-
Don't really disagree, but I wonder if there's a country where you can teach English, where you WILL be treated like an equal? mmmmmmmmmm
It certainly won't be China. Or anywhere else in Asia.... bibibibibi
there isn't a place in the world where people are treated as equals unless you achieve poverty
-
Don't really disagree, but I wonder if there's a country where you can teach English, where you WILL be treated like an equal? mmmmmmmmmm
It certainly won't be China. Or anywhere else in Asia.... bibibibibi
The answer is, of course, yes. Become a real teacher and teach in an English-speaking country. Teaching with no training and expecting to be treated as royalty is delusional at best.
-
I once convinced a newcomer that the school he works for is a really good place regardless of his assessment;
they wouldn't hire me
mmmmmmmmmm
-
Being blacklisted sucks
I have always had the impression that was just BS. that didn't really happen.
-
Oh it's real all right, here's the link:
http://wwww.safea.gov.cn/content.php?id=12744690
What the mistake being made by many teachers nowadays is that we all assume that the contract isn't worth the paper that it's printed on, even if it's true. However if we sign a contract that's a safea sanctioned contract even if the schools exploit us to high heaven if we leave(i.e. runner) they can report us the the GongAn and we will have this happen to us. If it's a safea contract be careful. With my personal experience the schools don't even NEED to get you a proper Z Visa. Just a Resident Permit and an Expert Certificate will be justifiable enough for this to happen to you. A PROPER Z visa as all of the experts on this forum would know is acquired before you come to China at the chinese embassy.
Please be careful, the schools can just tell the Chinese Government that they NEVER signed any additional agreements with you except the safea contract. Sometimes the school will ask you to sign 2 contracts, one a Safea and the other a "personal" one between you and the school.
-
Beware the blacklisted thing... though there is a local Ombudsman that I heard a laowai successfully appealed to after his school threatened to fire and blacklist him.
When you sign your contract you should also sign a secondary one which regards his sort-of judge.
Of course, we're all just pawns here and no doubt, like Dragonized rightly said, there must be better places around the world to teach and treated equally, albeit difficult to find.
As for worker rights, come on, no matter how great is our live in China and what we say on this and any other forum website, you just can't compare the "rights" in China with the far superior worker protection rights found in most Western countries. No comparison.
That's why there is such a degree of luck involved in finding a non-bastard employer to teach/work for in China!
It's the country, lifestyle and he'hem,,, girls, we mostly like! Cheap beer and cigarettes help too
-
Teaching with no training and expecting to be treated as royalty is delusional at best.
Funny...don't see that mentioned anywhere...
-
I think it is a necessary thing in some circumstances.
-
So, what does it actually say then? Does it just say what you did and your date of birth etc?
-
If you pull a runner, you should be black-listed.
Now if the school is treating you poorly, breaking your contract blah, blah blah, that is a separate issue. They should be held accountable. The fact that they may not be, that they can get away with it doesn't have anything to do with you getting black-listed for pulling a runner.
Party A has responsibilities. If they are broken that doesn't give Party B the right to break their responsibilities.
Being black-listed because of a personal problem with admin or the like is not the same - my sympathies. There may be times where pulling a runner is the best course of action for a situation but part of the price may be not working in that field again in that province.
FT may sometimes pull a runner because they don't like the city or they found a higher paying job. Sometimes there are consequences.
-
If you pull a runner, you should be black-listed.
Because it is sensible, and appropriate? Or, because these are Chinese people/Gov we are talking about?
If I just decided to blow off a job in the states, and not show up the Gov isn't going to be tracking it. As per people coming to the US on work visa's though I am not entirely sure what records if any are kept if said employee just decides to go back to their home country one day, pre contract term.
-
Are you sure that if you just blew off a job in the States, the government wouldn't track you? What if you were from say ...... Yemen? Would they pay attention.
It seems to me that many people expect that adhering to contracts is only for the employer and not for the employee.
-
There is a lot of conjecture about the "blacklist' for foreign teachers in China. This explanation seems to make things clear. It is is from China Visa Service:
http://www.z-visa.com/faq_eslteachers.htm#blackList
Is there really a teacher "black" list?
Yup. If you have done anything willful to damage or hurt the schools reputation or an employee, student or fellow teacher in the school you'll be asked to leave, pay damages (breach fines) and your passport number, and visa or residence permission can be revoked. Individuals that use teaching as a means to subsidize their travel and hedonistic lifestyles abroad may run into this situation. It is important to note there are several types of lists and mention their relevance to living abroad in China.
Nationwide Police Database: The most official and damaging blacklist is managed by the police and department of exit and entry in cooperation with the public security bureaus. It's not a teacher blacklist so much as it is a national database of foreigners that have been accused of some sort of criminal mischief. For example, if you drove a motorcycle drunk and rode into a Chinese pedestrian causing severe damage to that persons health requiring expensive hospital stays and surgery, if you were found guilty and weren't able to finance the persons health bills, the local police might take the next step and get the courts involved who would surely prevent you from leaving the country until the matter was administratively completed to satisfaction of the state. This is also true in the United States and other countries.
Proprietary Lists: Maintained by web companies, schools and recruiting agencies. Non centralized and the least to worry about. If you were on a list for Recruiter A, you might not be able to get a job with them, but that doesn't mean recruiter B would have the same information or have a sharing agreement with recruiter A. Information Sharing is becoming more and more popular though and BESI LLC, Buxiban, and ChinaSchoolReview are examples of three such webs that have proprietary blacklists.
Local Government Lists: They exist but are usually not centralized or connected with other municipalities.
Provincial Government Lists: Maintained by the provincial departments of SAFEA, Public Security Bureau, and Entry and Exit Police are centralized and connected with other municipalities. If you've been unfortunate enough to make this database then you're probably in some sort of legal trouble and will have to deal with things if you try to exit the country.
The thing to keep in mind is not to do anything that would get you placed on one of these lists! Most schools are not even aware of these databases and in most cases will not have the relations to implement a nationwide ban although if you are a trouble maker you may find trouble obtaining work in the same province or locality. If you are a criminal, or accused of a criminal act, you may find it difficult to leave the country until your legal matters are resolved.
99.9 % of people involved with teaching in China do not have to worrk about a "blacklist." It is usually career troublemakers and habitual contract breachers that wind up fretting.
The so-called "blacklist", then, is not the ultimate threat to Foreign Teachers in China. The focus of any foreign teacher should always be on the Letter of Releasefrom your school, college or university.
This, I believe, is the ultimate weapon of employers in China to control or pay-back foreign teachers. Foreign teachers who do not get a Letter of Release when departing a position cannot get another position.
For good background information on this go to:
http://www.jobschina.org/China_Library_Index/LINK_PAGE/Foreign_Experts_in_China/China_Employment_Contracts/0060401_Contract_Advice.pdf
The notes, by an unknown author, are set in the broad context of employment concerns (eg contracts) but there is specific reference to the Letter of Realease on p2.
I believe that gaining the Letter of Release must be the most important goal for any teacher leaving a position. Without it your chances of being able to take up another position are zilch.
-
Individuals that use teaching as a means to subsidize their travel and hedonistic lifestyles abroad may run into this situation.
...Uh-Oh!
-
Individuals that use teaching as a means to subsidize their travel and hedonistic lifestyles abroad may run into this situation.
...Uh-Oh!
They're on to us MK
-
That "blacklist" IMHO is a balance for the fact that schools often don't really have much to go on when they sign an FT. How do you know this laowai will give a good education to your students? A degree? Experience? Good job interview? Good demo? Blonde hair? We strive here to provide a blacklist for devil schools; schools need the same check. Heck, in the Other Forums gossip thread and elsewhere, WE'VE pilloried some FTs.
I answer for my results. I've completed 5 year-long contracts in this country, and am willing to stick up for the one I broke. Shouldn't everybody?