I'd appreciate feedback on this

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moon over parma

Re: I'd appreciate feedback on this
« Reply #15 on: June 04, 2007, 06:12:14 PM »
Thanks again, folks. It does seem pretty futile to go after the certification, and frankly I'd rather save the money. CELTA may offer up solid training, but the fee is a total f'n scam. It's over half the cost of a semester doing Masters work at most brick-and-mortar institutions, and with even less rewards attatched to it. The Nike-ization of training programs, so it seems...  mmmmmmmmmm

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Raoul F. Duke

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Re: I'd appreciate feedback on this
« Reply #16 on: June 04, 2007, 08:53:58 PM »
The SAFEA stuff can be important to access. You can find a very complete collection of SAFEA documents and regulations (including the Foreign Expert Guide, contracts, and more) at this site, which is also coming soon to the Links page:
http://www.china-tesol.com/How_to_get_a_Job_with_TEACH_CH/SAFEA_Guide_at_TEACH_CHINA/safea_guide_at_teach_china.html

SAFEA (The State Administration of Foreign Expert Affairs) is the government body that most directly allegedly regulates our industry in China. Familiarity with their stuff is useful. However, don't overestimate the amount of help these folks are likely to give you if you have problems with a school. You don't want to find out the hard way which side their bread is really buttered on.

Speaking of which: SAFEA also, most conveniently, seems to be in the recruiting business. They will try to lure you to their recruiting website, mostly full of crappy low-end jobs. Don't bother. Recruiting websites (and recruiters) are not popular 'round these parts. bqbqbqbqbq
« Last Edit: June 04, 2007, 08:56:00 PM by Raoul Duke »
"Vicodin and dumplings...it's a great combination!" (Anthony Bourdain, in Harbin)

"Here in China we aren't just teaching...
we're building the corrupt, incompetent, baijiu-swilling buttheads of tomorrow!" (Raoul F. Duke)

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moon over parma

Re: I'd appreciate feedback on this
« Reply #17 on: June 05, 2007, 06:56:36 AM »
Gracias, Raoul. I've bookmarked the link.
« Last Edit: June 11, 2007, 05:04:58 AM by moon over parma »

Re: I'd appreciate feedback on this
« Reply #18 on: June 11, 2007, 04:30:01 AM »
I spent 1200 quid doing my CELTA at international house and, in retrospect, that was a waste of money (not to mention the years off my life that the CELTA course took).  As others have said, whether or not you have a CELTA means absolutely sweet F.A for the vast majority of China jobs, and it also is not really enough to land you the high-end 'good jobs' like the EAP jobs etc.  In short, it's pointless.  My school is one of the better standard ESL jobs in China, and they only asked to see my Degree cert.
It is too early to say.

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moon over parma

Re: I'd appreciate feedback on this
« Reply #19 on: June 11, 2007, 05:16:48 AM »
Thanks C-dog. I appreciate the feedback. It is very refreshing, too, since the only people who really seem to be trumpeting the CELTA re thsoe with one. Especially on ESL Cafe. I suspect a lot of it to be people who are trying to rationalize thier time and expense, and at the cost of others. I've met a lot of people without certification that were fantastic teachers, and I've met many with certification who were miserable. The individuals who had the certification and were terrific also tended to be the ones who didn't trump one particular course over the other, let alone pontificating about it as the be-all/end-all of TEFL certification ad nauseum on internet message boards. They were too busy applying their knowledge to their work and enjoying life while occasionally offering unbiased advice! bfbfbfbfbf

So, it was good to have the opinion of a CELTA survivor who didn't bash the concept of certification and didn't thump their proverbial chest in making CELTA seem as though it was an invite to the O. B. E., either.

I am now going to bypass the certification altogether and just put 99% money towards the Masters degree (which will help me in some parts of China, but definitely will help me teaching outside of China, should I so desire), with the remainder on good books that expand upon concepts I experienced on that little island China has a fixation on (and some loose cultural ties to) taeching first hand, as I'll apply them when I'm in the "middle kingdom".

Thanks again, C-dog and everyone else who took the time to address my quandry. Free beers all around! agagagagag


Re: I'd appreciate feedback on this
« Reply #20 on: June 11, 2007, 08:48:15 PM »
If you want to land a really top notch job in China, do a Masters in something like Applied linguistics and go for one of the EAP type jobs.  They pay salaries comparable to international schools.

The CELTA is more geared to teaching small groups of adults in Europe.  It really is useless when it comes to teaching 40 kids at a school with no facilities.  For each lesson on the CELTA I produced an immaculate, detailed lesson plan and about 15 handouts/copies.  We just don't have the time/resources to do that in China, and the kind of lessons don't work with such huge classes.
It is too early to say.

Re: I'd appreciate feedback on this
« Reply #21 on: June 11, 2007, 08:49:37 PM »
All that being said, I do think the CELTA gave me, personally, the confidence to go out here and do it.  I was quite low in confidence when I graduated and I probably would have found teaching out here a bit too much without having done the course.  But in terms of what jobs it will get you, there is no use for it.
It is too early to say.