Movie/film thread: resurrected

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Re: Movie/film thread: resurrected
« Reply #930 on: December 06, 2008, 02:14:39 PM »
Feeling under the weather, so I downloaded the complete extended version of the LOTR trilogy. Watched Fellowship with collegue yesterday...so good, so bloody good.

Good man.  I always hate it when people are watching it and it turns out that they're watching the normal version and 'can't be bothered' with the extended ones.

The extended ones are the films.

Especially the Two Towers, which is probably the best of the three when seen in the extended version.
It is too early to say.

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Re: Movie/film thread: resurrected
« Reply #931 on: December 06, 2008, 06:16:49 PM »
Contemporary, I'd agree with you if:

It wasn't Peter Jackson, the man who is known for being a George Lucas type who likes to make people pay more for "Special editions" that are little more than pretentious twaddle. I reference the nearly 5 hour "making of" documentary he did for the barely over 2 hours The Frighteners, as a sign of indulgence. Given the immense box office take of the first entry in the Lord of The Rings trilogy, there was absolutely no commercial excuse for not theatrically release the "extended" versions of the two subsequent entries in the trilogy. It was simply a devious, spiteful con on his "fans" so they'd pay more for a double or triple dip of his films. Regardless of how great his films can be*, it's such a greedy, spiteful, shit thing to do that you can't justify the outright greed. Given Hollywood's joy of abusing "director's cut," and "extended version," and "unrated versions" of films that actually released the real director's cuts into theaters**, I'd be willing to debate the insidious nature of this con in front of a jury of legal professionals, should anyone doubt the validity of my claims!


Enjoy the extended versions, but don't be an enabler to a pretentious load of commercial horse shit by claiming they were the "versions you were supposed to see," because Jackson had the clout to put those versions in theaters if that was true. He truly did. He had final cut on every film in that series. So, if those were his director's cuts, then they would have been released in the theaters.

* ignoring the smug, self satisfied, pretentious piece of crap King Kong remake he did, Jackson's films generally exceed expectations for me.

** Virtually every film with Judd Apatow and Adam Mckay's name slapped on the credits have this. He's state numerous times that the "unrated" versions of their films were not the director's cut. This also applies to the American Pie films, Kevin Smith films, the horror film Land of the Dead, and about fifty other films of recent vintage I could bore you to death by listing them for you. The industry even has erminology for this, "double dipping."
"Most young people were getting jobs in big companies, becoming company men. I wanted to be an individual."
Haruki Murakami

Re: Movie/film thread: resurrected
« Reply #932 on: December 06, 2008, 07:02:41 PM »
Well, Spaghetti, that may be true, but Peter Jackson, just like anyone else, wants to make money. I mean, authors publish their books in hardback and then paperback and the HB is always more expensive. They just want to make money too. When all is said and done, the extended versions are just plain better. More cool scenes, especially the ones that got so rudely cut containing Christopher Lee, a cutting that I found to be an almost unforgiveable slight of a true Hollywood legend.

King Kong was not the best movie ever but I assume you still wathced it? One wonders why? I mean, you must have realized that it was going to be filled with all the Hollywood trappings, riddled by some mediocre perfomances as so many movies are today. Gone are the days of Olivier, where thespians perfected their crafts and then deigned to appear in movies. Today, if you look good naked and can stand in front of an explosion, you can win an Oscar. It was, IMO, an unnecessary remake but, again, I find the whole idea of remakes stupid. I mean, are they running out ideas? Does Hollywood not have a library? There are millions of good books that could be made into blockbusters.
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Re: Movie/film thread: resurrected
« Reply #933 on: December 07, 2008, 06:00:19 PM »
Well, Spaghetti, that may be true, but Peter Jackson, just like anyone else, wants to make money. I mean, authors publish their books in hardback and then paperback and the HB is always more expensive. They just want to make money too.

Here's where your kind heart gets the better of you, mi amigo. First, we know that the book industry makes its bread and butter from paperbacks. Additionally, the cost of paperbacks is far below the cost of legitimate DVDs in western countries. Then there's the fact Jackson's films already made money. Now, speaking of The Frighteners, the film was not considered successfully, but that didn't stop the pretentious-yet-talented turd from going balls out and producing a bloody six hour documentary so rife with flatulent self-importance that someone would have done well to slap Jackson upside the head and remind him of the virtues of humble pie. He didn't make Lawrence of Arabia. He made a Michael J. Fox ghost movie.

Then there's the fact that most authors don't pretend that "someone," some nameless, faceless entity, "made" them truncate their books and this year-later "double dip," was what, "you were supposed to see" even though the liar perpetuating such horseshit had final cut! What you saw on cinema screens was what Jackson wanted. What you got on the DVD was fine. Who doesn't love alternate versions of their favorite movies??? However, to lie about it and to have fans claiming that these were the versions you were (are) "supposed to see," is just silly. It's also enabling an ego that needs to get back to reality.

Speaking of Jackson, his remake of King Kong was so abysmally bad! It was built on a pretentious house of sand and boy did it crumble! Jackson's proposed World War II movie, his proposed pseudo follow-up to Heavenly Creatures*, another WWII movie that was supposed to have seen Jackson return to his horror roots, the film version of the Halo video game, and his Spielberg Tin-Tin adaptations have all disappeared. He has spent the last two years adapting the novel, "The Lovely Bones," which I think he wrapped shooting over a year ago. If that's true, it means it has been collecting dust on a studio's shelf: that's never a good sign. I'd also add that he nearly got cock-blocked out of The Hobbit films by his former LOTR producers, and as a concession, he will "produce" them and Guillermo Del Toro** will direct the pair of films*** based on the book.


Maybe he's finally getting some humble pie. I'd love to be able to see the Peter Jackson of old, who wasn't so bent on feeding bullshit to the public about his films and their supposed importance. His work spoke for itself, and he was humble and not out to milk his fans of their money for the sake of milking them of their money.



 
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When all is said and done, the extended versions are just plain better. More cool scenes, especially the ones that got so rudely cut containing Christopher Lee, a cutting that I found to be an almost unforgiveable slight of a true Hollywood legend.

You forget that Jackson had FINAL CUT, meaning what made it to the theaters were HIS versions! The director's cuts. And here you illustrate what I mean by enabling a guy. You repeat what he wanted you to believe, that he wasn't at fault for trimming those scenes, but if you dig deep enough in print media, Jackson had final cut on the last two (if not all three) of the Lord of The Rings films. The studios didn't make him cut them, despite the cop out of claiming they did. When your films will sell based on name alone, and then hit the ball home based on the talent involved, and the first entry rakes in obscene amounts of cash, how was not cutting 10-30 minutes going to prevent a further take? No, Jackson decided to cut those scenes and after the first DVD, realized he could be greedy and get suckers to pay more for "more," rather than actually show some respect to his fans by just giving them the full flick right off the bat.

Jackson "slighted," Lee.


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King Kong was not the best movie ever but I assume you still wathced it? One wonders why? I mean, you must have realized that it was going to be filled with all the Hollywood trappings, riddled by some mediocre perfomances as so many movies are today.


Huh? Let's see, pretentious Peter is still a filmmaker of talent. The LOTR films were good. I enjoyed all of his previous works. He earned my interest, so I check out King Kong based on the fact that I think he'd deliver a modicum of quality. He didn't. It was a monumental fuck up and audiences reacted accordingly. Have you noticed how long it's taken Jackson to follow up? It's no coincidence. I think the guy was at the height of his hubris and he got some humble pie. I'm hoping he returns to form even though he's a filthy, lucering goon who likes to rip off fans with double dipping. Ever since The Frighteners he's proved he can make Hollywood films that are not garbage. King Kong, however, is the exception. That was hot shit on a flaming stick.


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Gone are the days of Olivier, where thespians perfected their crafts and then deigned to appear in movies.

I disagree. Those days aren't gone because they were never really, "there," back in the day. In fact, I think those days happened in the eighties and are a construct that emerged after the seventies!

Sure, throughout the first one hundred years of cinema there were men and women who stuck to their guns, just as there are today, but such widespread practice in the forties, fifties, and up into the seventies was a fabrication of publicists and do-gooder Hollywood kiss asses who wouldn't know a film if it didn't come off the Tinseltown assembly lines. It's the usual, soundbyte friendly, safe, glamorous myth making of old Hollywood that the studios themselves created, just like Rock Hudson being straight, and studio chiefs being benevolent!

Since we are on the topic of Lord of The Rings, Viggo Mortensen is one of those individuals who plays by his own rules, and he has a body of work where it shows. After the success of the LOTR films he turned down a lot of guaranteed blockbusters based on his distaste for towards the scripts. He broke through the mainstream with LOTR and yet he took his demand and focused in on projects he wanted to do. Javier Bardem has been doing the same, not just after the success of No Country For Old Men, but for his entire career previous. George Clooney, Adam Sandler, Brad Pitt, Tom Hanks, Denzel Washington, Jack Nicholson, Morgan Freeman*** and Mr. Scientology Tom Cruise and little Mr. Scientology Will Smith are yet more with that power. Some simply focus on their Hollywood blockbusters, but all call their own shots (for better and for worse).

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Today, if you look good naked and can stand in front of an explosion, you can win an Oscar.

You forget who votes for the Oscars, Eric: Hollywood studios! People in the industry! Believing that an Oscar is actually some merit of artistic quality is no different than you or I setting up "Saloonie" awards and handing them out to ourselves so we can market ourselves off of - and brag about - being great! ababababab


Now, while I disagree with your opinion I do respect it and appreciate the opportunity to have some discourse. agagagagag



*The complete, uncut versions of Brain Dead (aka "Dead-Alive" in North America) and Heavenly Creatures. The 'uncut' version of Dead-Alive in North America only refers to the gore. There's six to ten minutes of character bits that are available on prints from every market except North America. As for Heavenly Creatures, the only complete version seems to exist on home video in Australia and New Zealand, and has yet to actually, legally, appear in North American and European markets. It's pretty ironic that the guy who claims his extended versions are, "the ones you are supposed to see," hasn't been so keen on seeing that his preferred versions of those films become available. He certainly did that for The Frighteners, King Bomb, and LOTR.

**Del Toro is everything Jackson claims himself as being, but Del Toro doesn't tell you this. He simply lets his films speak for themselves. He also doesn't play the, "I had final cut on the film but these here longer versions are really the ones you're supposed to see, not the final cut I submitted to theaters, but this one here that I want you to fork over a lot of money to buy for a second or third time," card. Only one of his films received an "extended" version and that was Hellboy, and that was because he didn't have final cut on the theatrical version. Jackson had final cut on at least two of the three LOTR films, and he still played the greed game.


***I worry about the corrupting, Jackson hubris. Rather than make a singular, solid live action version of The Hobbit, they announced a pair of films before a script was even commissioned. The wheels of double dipping begin before a single letter is typed!

****Morgan Freeman was long a respected actor of stage and television, but his sticktuitiveness worked against him until he finally broke the mainstream in the late eighties and early nineties. I recall an old interview with American talk show host Charlie Rose, where Freeman read off some of the very big films he turned down earlier in his career. Some of them went on to lead other actors to success, like Danny Glover. Freeman lucked out though, and in spite of the racial and ageist glass ceiling that still exists in Hollywood, he's able to do the films he wants to do, cherry picking parts he'd like, and demanding a salary he feels he's worth. He didn't change, but the eyes and ears of power brokers in Hollywood did. Now, to be honest: I think many of the films he appears in are shit, but it's rarely ever the result of his on screen performances.

 
« Last Edit: December 07, 2008, 10:31:37 PM by Spaghetti »
"Most young people were getting jobs in big companies, becoming company men. I wanted to be an individual."
Haruki Murakami

Re: Movie/film thread: resurrected
« Reply #934 on: December 07, 2008, 10:00:35 PM »
When all is said and done, the extended versions are just plain better. More cool scenes, especially the ones that got so rudely cut containing Christopher Lee, a cutting that I found to be an almost unforgiveable slight of a true Hollywood legend.

What he said.

Your rant may be true, Spaghetti, but the extended LOTRs are simply better, particularly the 2nd film, which I wasn't entirely sold on with the cinema cut but now would class as my favourite of the 3.
It is too early to say.

Re: Movie/film thread: resurrected
« Reply #935 on: December 07, 2008, 10:03:53 PM »
I think many of the films he appears in are shit, but it's rarely ever the result of his on screen performances.
Definitely agree with this!  Freeman's one of those people who could read the phonebook or a washing machine manual and make it sound interesting...
It is too early to say.

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Re: Movie/film thread: resurrected
« Reply #936 on: December 07, 2008, 10:16:48 PM »

Your rant may be true, Spaghetti, but the extended LOTRs are simply better, particularly the 2nd film, which I wasn't entirely sold on with the cinema cut but now would class as my favourite of the 3.


That's fine. That's not the bone of contention. I simply refuse to give Peter Jackson any money at the box office. His bait-and-switch extended cut silliness has convinced me to simply wait until his work hits cable, or DVD. He has no respect towards his fans when he doesn't give them the full cut theatrically*, so I won't contribute to his wealth. If I pay my cash I want to know I'm getting the whole deal. This also explains why I don't bother to go to the cinemas in China. Nearly everything is sanitized, so why fork over the moolah for it when I can see the unexpurgated version elsewhere? If I buy or invest my cash in something I want the whole thing, not 1% or 10% or 90% of it.  Jackson's films join Judd Apatow and Adam McKay and Quentin Tarantino on the list of filmmakers whose films I will no longer bother to see in theaters because they will have another version of it come out down the line or released abroad.


*when he is one of the few filmmakers out there with "final cut" in his contracts
« Last Edit: December 07, 2008, 10:21:51 PM by Spaghetti »
"Most young people were getting jobs in big companies, becoming company men. I wanted to be an individual."
Haruki Murakami

Re: Movie/film thread: resurrected
« Reply #937 on: December 08, 2008, 05:53:50 AM »
Do you really think that the majority of western cinemas would have given the "OK" to a 4 hr 10 minute (which was what the EE of ROTK was) release?

That is way above and beyond what any release tends to be in Britain at any rate.

Most people complained that the 2 hr 30 minutes of the first film's cinema release was too long.
I'm not convinced at all that this was Jackson's cjoice...
It is too early to say.

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Spaghetti

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Re: Movie/film thread: resurrected
« Reply #938 on: December 08, 2008, 06:49:18 AM »
Do you really think that the majority of western cinemas would have given the "OK" to a 4 hr 10 minute (which was what the EE of ROTK was) release?


Yes. $$$$$$. In America there were several marathon screenings of the first and second films on a double bill in many multiplexes throughout the country.


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That is way above and beyond what any release tends to be in Britain at any rate.]That is way above and beyond what any release tends to be in Britain at any rate.

Most films fall under two hours, so that's a given.

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Most people complained that the 2 hr 30 minutes of the first film's cinema release was too long.

Then they shouldn't have gone, eh? I don't go to a cricket match because I don't like the possibility of it lasting over two hours. Buyer be aware. People who complain about a film being "too long," when they can easily look into its run time prior to attending a screening, are retarded. bibibibibi

What it boils down to is the fact that Jackson had final cut on at least two of the three films. That means the studio was obligated to deliver his final version into theaters as per contractual agreement. If they voided such an agreement then legal and union litigation would have delayed the film(s) release. His choice. His preference. His hands were not tied.



"Most young people were getting jobs in big companies, becoming company men. I wanted to be an individual."
Haruki Murakami

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Re: Movie/film thread: resurrected
« Reply #939 on: December 10, 2008, 03:52:34 PM »
Currently watching "Medium" (the TV series).  Not too bad, but not brilliant.

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Re: Movie/film thread: resurrected
« Reply #940 on: December 13, 2008, 08:18:28 AM »
Double feature respite from a week of finals:

Dennis Hopper's The Last Movie

and

Alice Doesn't Live Here Anymore.
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Re: Movie/film thread: resurrected
« Reply #941 on: December 23, 2008, 03:10:07 AM »
Watched From Dusk till Dawn the other day. "Attention pu$$y shoppers!"  ahahahahah

Re: Movie/film thread: resurrected
« Reply #942 on: December 23, 2008, 09:48:36 PM »
Golly, guys, I absolutely LOVED King Kong.  I thought it was a nearly perfect movie (for the genre), and I seem to remember the critics and box office agreeing.  What in y'all's opinions was wrong with it?
And there is no liar like the indignant man... -Nietszche

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Re: Movie/film thread: resurrected
« Reply #943 on: December 23, 2008, 09:51:01 PM »
Watched the Bond flick, Solace... crap, forget the name.  I love Daniel Craig as Bond, especially when he runs down a baddie.  The only problem with the movie is that the plot moves so fast, you can't glance away for a second to smile at your hosts' baby for fear of being in the dark as to what's going on.  Definitely one you have to see alone, without any chitchat.
And there is no liar like the indignant man... -Nietszche

Nothing is so fatiguing as the eternal hanging on of an uncompleted task. -William James

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Re: Movie/film thread: resurrected
« Reply #944 on: December 23, 2008, 10:00:35 PM »
I didn't like Daniel Craig as an actor until he appeared as Bond. I LOVE seeing him in the role, but I did feel that Quantum of Solace lacked that typical Bond-flick feel.

Great action movie though ;)
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