Canucks fail test

I think that many Canadians abroad do not want to be confused as Americans. Could be an inferiority complex or just the fact that we will be treated better if it is not assumed we are. Britain and Australia do not have that same kind of stigma attached. I have met some Americans that have had Canadian patches on their backpacks for this very reason although it doesn't seem to happen anymore.

Two years ago an American friend of mine was travelling through China and came by my small town for a visit. He wanted to see one of my classes and meet the kids. Knowing he always introduced himself as being from Cali, I mentioned to him that when they ask, they probably won't know where California is. He replied that everybody knows California because of Hollywood and movies. When he introduced himself, he got blank stares. The stares didn't change when he mentioned Hollywood. They did know Los Angeles because of Kobe Bryant and Shaquille O'Neil. He was shocked that middle school students in Hunan province (a place he had never heard of) would not know of California.

The reason I mentioned Oregon before is that when I first came to China, there was a get together for the 20 foreign teachers that would be working. Every American used their state over country. One fella was from Oregon and other than the other Americans and me from Canada, nobody knew where that was. None of the Brits or Aussies nor the Irish. I would think he would know that so why not say Oregon USA?

Both of them are good guys and friends.

I never had to do that until I spent time in Korea and had to endure personal insults and outright discrimination and hostility from many Koreans and many - not all, but frankly from many Canadians.

Perhaps the Canadians (and Koreans) you met don't have a problem with all Americans.... just one. 

I think that many Canadians abroad do not want to be confused as Americans.

I. E. insecurity.


 

Could be an inferiority complex or just the fact that we will be treated better if it is not assumed we are.

I. E. insecurity.

I have met some Americans that have had Canadian patches on their backpacks for this very reason although it doesn't seem to happen anymore.

I. E. insecurity.

Two years ago an American friend of mine was travelling through China and came by my small town for a visit. He wanted to see one of my classes and meet the kids. Knowing he always introduced himself as being from Cali, I mentioned to him that when they ask, they probably won't know where California is. He replied that everybody knows California because of Hollywood and movies. When he introduced himself, he got blank stares. The stares didn't change when he mentioned Hollywood. They did know Los Angeles because of Kobe Bryant and Shaquille O'Neil. He was shocked that middle school students in Hunan province (a place he had never heard of) would not know of California.

Interesting story. However, it doesn't explain much.

How old was this "American?" That would make sense.

The reason I mentioned Oregon before is that when I first came to China, there was a get together for the 20 foreign teachers that would be working. Every American used their state over country. One fella was from Oregon and other than the other Americans and me from Canada, nobody knew where that was. None of the Brits or Aussies nor the Irish. I would think he would know that so why not say Oregon USA?

Why is country so important?

Both of them are good guys and friends.

It's good to hear that. Barriers should be broken, not enforced.

Perhaps the Canadians (and Koreans) you met don't have a problem with all Americans.... just one. 

Nice way to play blame game.   

How about if I told you of instances where I wasn't the one who told them I was an American, but a companion identified themselves as one, and thus they took me to be one, and of course, I won't lie to people - and they then took to going out of their way to lecture us about how bad America was despite the fact it wasn't the subject at hand? instance #1 of about twenty nasty ones.

How about my similar observations from a barstool in Pusan of the same exact thing with different individuals - complete strangers on several occasions?

How about happening to be in the back of an elevator in a department store and hearing two young ladies with maple leaf flags on their packs -  unbeknownst to them anotehr foreinger was lurkign behind them 9 i. e. me) -  only to overhear them rag on one of thier coworkers and turn that into observations about Americans in general?

How about the time I was having a great night out in Seoul with some new aquaintances whom I got along well with only for them to spot a soldier and then gush with very similar rhetoric that Eagle posted (almost verbatim, actually - which leads me to believe it's taught in schools) only to be shcoked to learn that I was an American.

How about working with people who went out of their way to try and turn an entire school's staff against the two American teachers simply because they didn't like Americans? It backfired, and was made clear to us by students and fellow (Korean and Canadian and Kiwi nationals) teachers?

What about the time in Kangnam when I shared a taxi during rush hour with a Canadian expat (they told me so though I dind't ask - I simply guessed from the maple leaf on their backpack)? They had only been in the country a week, didn't speak nor read Korean and needed to get somehwere and I translated for them - only to have them assume I was Canadian and tell me they didn't like that there were "so many Americans" working at their hagwon...


How about watching CNN at a bar in Hong Kong (Lam Kwai Fong)  when coverage of hurricane Katrina came on as it happeend and the kid with the maple leaf on his backpack (man, there's just way too many) blurted out, "I f@#king hate Americans!"


Got bandwidth? I could go into my personal journal and post week-by-week accoutns of similar incidents in South Korean and Taiwan and Japan since the late nineties. I'd have to spend a few hours finding the little observations tucked between paragraphs of other (more interesting) experiiences and observations, but I could give you a laundry list of them if you really want to know and make a final judgement call.

Yeah, I'm sure it was all me - especially the fly-on-the-wall observations where people didn't even know I was there, let alone who I was or where I was from.

Despite all of this, I don't think it's a majority of Canadians. My experiences in Canada were polar opposite to what I've experienced with some  (all of them  insecure) Canadians abroad.

Interesting story. However, it doesn't explain much.

He didn't understand that the geography of America may not be known by all of the world even though he knew little of China. Cultural arrogance perhaps.

How old was this "American?" That would make sense.

I never asked. I didn't want to judge him by his age only for who he is

Why is country so important?

Why is state? It's not that country is more important just easier for others to know. Depending on who I'm talking to I might say I'm from Aldershot, Burlington, Ontario, Toronto or Canada. Most people would know a major city before they knew a state or province. Most people in China would not know Oregon but Portland would be known by many (mostly because of the NBA)

It's good to hear that. Barriers should be broken, not enforced.

Oh, yes it was a tough barrier for me but I am proud that I was able to overcome it.

But actually you have me convinced Moonie. Most Canadians are insecure. Most hate America and Americans. We would never leave our homes without our keys, wallets and maple leaf flags. In our free time we wander the streets hoping against hope to find an evil American that we can mock.

Now, now, let's be civil, gentlemen. I really rather doubt Americans and Canadians share such animosity towards each other. Danes and Swedes pretend to have something against each other too but that is mostly when the football season starts. The Swedish come here to drink our beer, as their government would make an ultra-Puritanical, tee-totalling Temperance League preacher look like Barney Gumble, and we go there to enjoy their nature and, if we feel suicidal, cruise the roads in search for an elk to hit.
I remember once, after explaining my humble origins, if Denmark was not the capital of Norway. If I meet an American, I may ask him/her what state he/she hails from, as a conversation starter, seeing as my knowledge of the individual states is quite limited. If I meet a Canadian who says he/she hails from Nunavut or Moosejaw or Calgary, it's the same thing. Much the same if I told you I grew up in Charlottenlund. Unless you have been to Charlottenlund.
Now, let's be mean to people from Jutland..errr...there are no Juttish people here, right

I never asked. I didn't want to judge him by his age only for who he is

Age tends to indicate experience. Lack of experience might explain such a habit. Simple logic.

Why is country so important?

Why is state? [/quote]

You post lead me to believe that you placed the importance on state being mentioned over country.

It's not that country is more important just easier for others to know. Depending on who I'm talking to I might say I'm from Aldershot, Burlington, Ontario, Toronto or Canada. Most people would know a major city before they knew a state or province. Most people in China would not know Oregon but Portland would be known by many (mostly because of the NBA)

But perhaps the individual only identifies with the state so they are very specific, and maybe to break the ice they want the part to ask another question ike, "So, tell me more about ___(name of state)."

Do you get angry if a Chinese perso nmentiones the name of some city you never heard of instead of a province?

Whatever the case it's silly on both sides.

But actually you have me convinced Moonie. Most Canadians are insecure. Most hate America and Americans. We would never leave our homes without our keys, wallets and maple leaf flags. In our free time we wander the streets hoping against hope to find an evil American that we can mock.

I guess only overseas, and even then it appears you'd be one out of three on this.

It's interesting how you take my personal experiences and becasue you - a Canadian - are in denial, or most likely just never had to witness such things (given you are a Canadian - and maybe even one who wears a flag to let the world know this, not that anyone really cared) and pointed the finger of insult on me.

You then ignore everything I've stated thus far, and numerous times (that it's a minority of insecure jingoists and not representative of Canadians as a whole) and only re-inforce an earlier opinion that had I posted what Eagle posted and changed it to place insult on Canadians as opposed to Americans, you'd probably be in an uproar about it.
 

This leads me to a point: put yourself in the other person's shoes, and if you took issue with an unfair, broad-stroke stereotype wouldn't you speak up too? Wouldn't you wonder why such a phenomenon of rabid, jingoistic insecurity exists amongst some people abroad?

As an American I am only used to seeing such gross displays of "I'm #1. My country rules and you suck!" on a grand scale IN America and South Korea; and with pretty much that kind of simplistic abandon. It depresses me that such ills are being carried outside of Canada and by people in positions of authority.  I certainly never witnessed such displays of insecurity within Canada proper. 

Now, now, let's be civil, gentlemen. I really rather doubt Americans and Canadians share such animosity towards each other.

Americans, in general don't. For better or for worse most simply don't care. Our government certainly doesn't finance sitcoms belitting Americans to bolster Canadian nationalism.

Danes and Swedes pretend to have something against each other too but that is mostly when the football season starts.

The playful antagonism you reference, and the one I've seen bandied about on various rugby pitches by some Zozies and Kiwis is often jsut htat: playful antagonism.

However, the anti-American rheatoric I've experienced and been subejcted to by Canadians is almost entirely one-sided, and jsut as ridicuoulsy incorrect and offensive and painted in as broad a stroke as Eagle's post. Sometimes verbatim. There's no playfulness to it. Outside of tht one television special and the series that spun it off - I never actually had any negative experiences within Canada. It' a country I quite like, and ddespite meeting a great many scary folks with a major hard on about the United States - I've met a great many of wonderful people too, free of such grotesque insecurities.

Maybe that's the problem? Americans could care less and dont' travel the world going out of their way to bash Canadians at ever turn, but a sad enough number of Canadians do.

Outside of Niagra falls, film and television production, hockey and baseall: there isn't much going on between our nations. Not even on a playful level. It's just nothing.

I remember once, after explaining my humble origins, if Denmark was not the capital of Norway. If I meet an American, I may ask him/her what state he/she hails from, as a conversation starter, seeing as my knowledge of the individual states is quite limited. If I meet a Canadian who says he/she hails from Nunavut or Moosejaw or Calgary, it's the same thing. Much the same if I told you I grew up in Charlottenlund. Unless you have been to Charlottenlund.

Which is why I find it funny some people make a big deal out of the state thing. 

Now, let's be mean to people from Jutland..errr...there are no Juttish people here, right

I think I need background to better appreciate that joke. It's a joke, right?

Well, People from Zealand and People from Jutland often make fun of each other. Zealanders are silly townies with an inflated sense of their own importance and Juttish people are naive hayseeds. And Juttish people talk funny. And, as I have tried to tell Juttish people for the three years I went to Uni there, I do not have an inflated sense of my own importance, they just failed to see how great I was..err..am. Then we would buy each other beer and make fun of Swedes.
Can't the Canadians and Americans just buy each other beer and talk trash about the French?
As for the importance of states, don't really care whether Americans are from Oklahoma or Illinois, as long as I get to make fun of the president without being beaten up, I'm happy. And they can in turn make fun of the Queen.

Can't the Canadians and Americans just buy each other beer and talk trash about the French?

Your Juttland bit was funny, but I'm still wrapping my head around the specifics. You have a Ben Elton-like sense of historical humor, Eric, I'll give you that.

Outside of bashing the French, which isn't my cup of tea (or stout, if you prefer); that's the basic question I wish everybody would ask before they want to paint oen nation in a broad stroke.

Here's a Canadian whose books helepd pursuade me to visit Canada more often and to look beyond the very negative, way too common Can-jingoism I had/have experienced:

http://www.willferguson.ca/

His sense of satire appears one-sided from the provacative names of his books, but the actual substance of his work is quite the opposite. He loves Canada and he loves the world. Rather than shove a flag around and talk smack he uses humor and a kind of, "why not check this out," approach.

And... like most of us here, he spent time teaching English abroad (Japan).

As for the importance of states, don't really care whether Americans are from Oklahoma or Illinois, as long as I get to make fun of the president without being beaten up, I'm happy.

And how!. 

Americans, in general don't. For better or for worse most simply don't care. Our government certainly doesn't finance sitcoms belitting Americans to bolster Canadian nationalism.

 Indeed. I wonder how funny most Canadians would find Rick Mercer's schtick if it was an American show where an American guy asked a bunch of Canadians questions they had no good reason to know the answer to  and then only aired the worst answers.

 My guess is most Canadians would to take some degree of offence to this. This is complete  hypocrisy .

MOP, I haven't noticed being treated in any way differently by Koreans or Canadians because of my nationality.  I've easily befriended many Canadians.  They're mostly an open-minded, fun, and easygoing lot.  Because of the U.S. military presence here, and because of world politics, there is a lot of animosity in Korea toward America.  But, I've never felt any of it directed at me personally.  I enjoy openly discussing these issues with Korean friends.  I have never felt judged, because of where my passport was issued.

On the other hand, "Texas" does touch a nerve with some, but I welcome the opportunity to distance myself from Bush and his politics.

I find your experience intriguing though.  Perhaps, I'm just naive.  I'm going on a road trip next weekend.  I think I'll go undercover as a Canadian (maple leaf patch and all) and see if I can get mixed up in some good ol' anti-American rhetoric.  It'll be fun and educational to stereotype and bash some Yanks. 

MOP, I haven't noticed being treated in any way differently by Koreans or Canadians because of my nationality.   

I'm glad to hear that. I'm sure your time has been enjoyable there.

The majority of Chinese asked hwere they come from answer as "Shaanxi de Xi'an" - state followed by name - but this is a cultural thing.  Their addresses go P.R.China, Shaanxi, Xi'an, district, street, building, name.

Let me console you all with the following: first 3 years in China I had to pretend to be American, Canadian, French, Dutch (wasn't my idea) and more. As much as I hated it - I am actually VERY proud of being Russian; even though at times the fact that I am runs back at me as hell on the speeding wheels - I have created a good reputation for you, folks. And my students - whether Chinese, Korean or Japanese at that time - loved me and praised my "countries" for producing such great teachers 

I am glad I don't have to do that anymore. I didn't do it out of shame of being who I am - in fact it was slowly killing me. I did it as many did and still do for one sole reason - possibility of work. I wouldn't want to be confused with Ukrainians or Serbians not because I am insecure but because even though we have similar roots and despite the fact that I am 1/5 Polish and 1/5 Belorussian, I AN Russian.

So... be yourselves. Fail the tests. Because I don't know any nation so far that know its history  - past and current - perfectly. Gosh, there are still tons of people who can't speak properly, leave alone spell!

 

Hi MOP - it seems that a bug worked its way into your pants    as far as Canadians are concerned.  Damn right we don't want to be mistaken for Americans, not because they aren't good people, but simply because we aren't Americans.  Canadians are a different kind of people with a different sense of identity (which isn't based on comparison with America).  There aren't many of us in population terms.  I personally don't appreciate your blanket statements about Canadians as I am sure you don't appreciate blanket statements about Americans.  Why don't we define ourselves internationally by province as you indicate Americans define themselves by state is simple.  Most of the world hasn't heard of our provinces.  If they know anything about our country it is about Toronto, Vancouver and maybe Montreal.  The rest is mountains, snow and forests.  I include most Americans in this state of non-awareness of provinces.  Within country, we do identify ourselves by province.  Within provinces we identify ourselves by urban centres (or nearest urban centres).  I don't know anyone in Canada who identifies themselves in comparisons with Americans.

Are Canadians anti-American?  Generally no, not anymore than many Americans are anti-American.  Most Canadians have little interest in their gigantic and powerful neighbour to the south other than as a tourist destination, a shopping experience, a sporting event host, or even as a place where we go to visit our extended family members. 

Lighten up, life's too short.  Have a beer (Raoul's paying).

Well said Eagle.

I have worked with many Americans and have American friends. 

When asked where I come from I would usually reference an American city that is close to where I live.  Giving a Canadian city and Province was hard for them, but north of Rochester NY just across the lake gave them a point they could reference.