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The Bar Room => The Champagne Cabana => Topic started by: gonzo on June 30, 2007, 05:01:25 PM
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Canadians fail Canada test
June 30, 2007 10:02am
Article from: Agence France-Presse
TWO days before Canadians celebrate their nation, a survey has found that more than half of them would not be granted citizenship on the basis of their knowledge of their own country.
According to the Ipsos Reid poll, 60 percent of Canadians would fail the citizenship exam, a necessary step for immigrants to be granted citizenship.
However, an "outstanding majority'' or 70 percent of newcomers scored a passing grade when administered the same quiz.
The results are "frankly disheartening,'' said Rudyard Griffiths of the Dominion Institute.
"Immigrants to Canada have accumulated more knowledge about the workings of the Canadian government, key moments in Canada's past, and the geography of Canada than the general Canadian public.''
In 1997, only 45 percent of respondents failed an identical test, indicating that Canadians' knowledge of themselves also appears to be sliding, Mr Griffiths lamented.
To pass the test participants had to correctly answer 12 of 21 questions on Canadian history, politics, culture and geography.
I suspect many other nationalities would do the same.
How about Americans? My impression is they get force-fed this kind of stuff at school, but are nowhere near as good at finding countries they're at war with on the globe.
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This is not surprising. I have met many fine Canadians whose knowledge about their nation's history and culture was dwarfed my knowledge of their nation and culture. Inversely, I've met Canadians whose knowledge of American history was far more impressive than my own.
I don't prescribe to the notion that one must know the minutia of their country's history if they are not wrapped up in jingoism.
I am not into
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Not surprising at all. I knew people who didn't know the capital of Canada. I don't know that this is a really terrible thing. It just indicates a certain apathy with is at least preferable to being flag waving zealot.
I'd like to see the questions though.
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I much prefered ancient history to modern history. I know I studied some about Canada in school but know/knew more about the Spartans than British or Canadian history. I may also be guilty of knowing a bit more about US history than Canadian. I do know the Capital, and I believe the capital of each province as well. Not sure about the territories.
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I'd like to see the questions though.
Check out www.yourlibrary.ca/citizenship/
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According to the Ipsos Reid poll, 60 percent of Canadians would fail the citizenship exam, a necessary step for immigrants to be granted citizenship.
Only 60% would fail? I thought it would be higher than that (Although it's true most of my friends are complete morons) but who studies for a test they don't need to pass. The education system has been m'kayed for a long time. 25 years ago when I was in high school, history and geography were electives and political sciences were all theory. There was very little taught about current systems and most people would not bother to study these on their own. We did learn how to make cookies though.
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Thanks for the link, Amonk. Well, I passed, but I'm embarrassed. Told it to give me 20 questions and I got 15 right for 75%. One of the ones I got wrong I initially had correct, but second-guessed myself and changed it to a wrong answer. In my defense, I haven't lived in Canada since 1988, and a lot has changed. I'm certainly not up on who the various government leaders are. I did get most of the history ones correct. One that surprised me is that New Brunswick - not Quebec like I chose - is the only officially bilingual province.
I had to take a citizenship test to become a USAnian. There were 100 questions and we could be asked any of them during the interview. I had to study, as I certainly wasn't up on the inner workings of the US government system. My kids knew it from history class in school. I remember one question was about the colors in the flag. Didn't have to memorize that one!
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Could it be because half of the population are Chinese? ahahahahah ahahahahah ahahahahah
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Could it be because half of the population are Chinese? ahahahahah ahahahahah ahahahahah
Not yet! Give them a few more years and they will be.
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Well, I know immigration from China has been limited: they all go back to China afterall which affects Canadian economy.
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I managed a respectable 70% on 20 questions but I must admit I guessed on some of them or just applied good old answer vetting when some were obviously wrong until I was left with 1 or two.
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I did 2 sets of 5 questions. Wasn't smart enough to change the default to 20 questions. Got 100%. Yahoo. agagagagag agagagagag
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Scored 90% on 20 questions but embarrassed I didn't know how many electoral districts there are.
I didn't know who the Premier of B.C was either but then again I'm from Ontario and Even the Prime Minister has changed twice since I've been back.
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28 of 32. Some them were tricky. Didn't know who the Governor General was bibibibibi
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28 of 32. Some them were tricky. Didn't know who the Governor General was bibibibibi
Here's a clue: He's not Major Dad. bpbpbpbpbp
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I managed a respectable 70% on 20 questions
No wonder I thought you were from Canada when we just met!!! cbcbcbcbcb
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uuuuuuuuuu Damn, I'm smart. More Canadian than thou.
Mind, I thought Metis were only half French, half native. i still do. leader of BC opposition party? bibibibibi Sheesh.
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I got 75% adadadadad amamamamam
I was surprised to hear that there was a general knowledge test for becoming a citizen...I recall all the fuss when the Netherlands were going to introduce one a wee while ago. For us in NZ, what you need is a certain level of English and the more $$$$$ the better to become a citizen.
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Just a side note - I am a Canadian History major and have taught MANY history classes over the decades. I have also published a Canadian history book (Metis history). I am not typical for a Canadian. However, I do think that Canadians know more about any other country in the world that do USAnians who for the most part think Canadians live in perpetual winter, eat raw seal meat and live in igloos. I am proud of Canadians for their general apathetic sense of ultra nationalism as it tends to make them more tolerant of all others. We are a pluralistic society and damned proud of our general sense of confusion about who and what we are.
Now, where's that beer, eh?
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[quote author=Con ate dog link=topic=539.msg9705#msg9705 date=1183292922
Mind, I thought Metis were only half French, half native. i still do. leader of BC opposition party? bibibibibi Sheesh.
[/quote]
I also thought the Metis were only half French. Blame my grade 10 history teacher for that one.
I did get the leader of the BC opposition party(a stupid question IMO) as a lucky guess. The day I left for China BC was having an election but I couldn't vote because I didn't have anything with my address on it. Never heard who won...but judging by the test it looks like Gordon Campbell bbbbbbbbbb
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So Mr. Eagle, history teacher, sir - please tell me the correct answer for the Metis. That question was not on the test I took, but I would have answered half French and half Native American. That's what I learned in school. Did their genetics change since I was a kid?
Eagle, I'm also curious to know how you did on the test, being recently departed from Canada and a history major/teacher.
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However, I do think that Canadians know more about any other country in the world that do USAnians who for the most part think Canadians live in perpetual winter, eat raw seal meat and live in igloos.
Man, that's like science fiction. Do some teachers enforce such stereotyping in Canadian history classes? Does the hour only have 22 minutes with such a point of view? I ask, because I've met a frighteningly large number of Canadians in my travels overseas who think this - and very few who think this actually spent a substantial amount of time in the U. S., In fact, none did - who honestly believed this rhetoric. I've yet to meet a single American who even assumed such things, but I've seen hundreds of hours of Canadian television dramas, comedies and commercials that perpetuate that deliberate stereotype/misinformation regarding Americans and how they view Canada.
I'm doubly shocked that a "history teacher" would fall into such a trap. aoaoaoaoao
I am proud of Canadians for their general apathetic sense of ultra nationalism as it tends to make them more tolerant of all others. We are a pluralistic society and damned proud of our general sense of confusion about who and what we are.
Your previous quoted bit of unrealistic sterotyping contradicts this statement.
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This is now joining threads a bit with the Yo Canada discussion about national days.
In general the education system of a country will concentrate on the history and geography of it's own country particularly in primary and lower secondary levels - ie where the highest percentage of students attend - unless for a long time you were like Australia and suffered from an enormous cultural cringe and so learnt British history along with the explorers of Australia.
This took a long time to change and it is not that long ago now that we started to include a broader view of Oz history (especially in regard to our dealings with the Aboriginal, Torres Strait and Australian South Sea Islander peoples).
But a fair percentage of history and geography taught in OZ focuses on the outside world - so we get US, European and some Asian history in our curricula now - although only a little bit of Canadian or African - the latter mostly based around wars.
BUT ... because we have so much overseas content in our television programming (including news, current affairs and doco-commentaries ), I tend to think we know a fair bit about a pretty big chunk of the world - and I think we could take on most countries in a general knowledge trivia night! Losers buy the beer.agagagagag
And I think Aussies are a bit blas
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Oddly enough my early history lessons were about the middle east followed by a rigorous diet of classical Greek which I loved. Got socked six semesters of Australian History in the last two years of school. (
Boring Food for thought.)
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In general the education system of a country will concentrate on the history and geography of it's own country particularly in primary and lower secondary levels - ie where the highest percentage of students attend - unless for a long time you were like Australia and suffered from an enormous cultural cringe and so learnt British history along with the explorers of Australia.
I don't recall much British history as a younger student, but it still features as one of two major topics for senior students - Tudor England (the development of the Westminster system) and early NZ history are the two subjects a history student in their last year at NZ High School study.
I think our students get quite a broad range of history / geography, plus. of course, we get to watch a lot of tv from other countries so we get exposed to a lot of culture that way as well.
As to who's better at Geography - US citizens or Canadians, I don't know...but I do know that a common stereotype is that many Americans are not that good on history or geography outside of the US. This tends to be supported by international testing which shows the US school children, from memory, usually perform in the lower third of those tested. I know Clinton tried to rectify this, he sent some bigwigs in the academic field over to NZ to look at our Social Studies curriculum.
I just googled to try and find some proof but couldn't get anything...I'll try again when google's going llllllllll
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As to who's better at Geography - US citizens or Canadians,
That's not the bone of contention.
My bone of contention is the outright lie/blanket statement about Americans' supposed views on their neighbors.
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Rick Mercer's 'Talking to Americans,' a national treasure. I remember our sole American employee was not amused when we'd discuss the previous night's episode in the lunchroom the next day but it was just so darn funny.
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Rick Mercer's 'Talking to Americans,' a national treasure. I remember our sole American employee was not amused when we'd discuss the previous night's episode in the lunchroom the next day but it was just so darn funny.
Yes, making fun of other counties in a one-sided manner because you're (i. e. Rick Mercer and crew - to clarify) insecure with your own identity is so hilarious. llllllllll
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I think Rick Mercer is the greatest. I still loved his one about banning seal hunting in Saskatchewan. Or Tim Horton for Prime Minister etc. These were shot in the USA and the people were asked for their opinions.
I have travelled over a lot of the USA and people in the south tend to think of Canada as the land of ice and snow. Obviously, people from New York State, Vermont etc knew better.
MOP you really need to get a life. I will not let you turn this thread into a fight.
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Every nationality has it's stereotypes. Unfortunately there are just enough people that fit each stereotype to make it difficult to state that the stereotype is totally wrong. After all - that's why they arose in the first place.
But the rest of us are also aware that many, many, many, more people don't fit that image.
Think of the stereotypes of Aussies.
Bronzed, beer-drinking, meat-pie eating, (real)football-loving, slow-talking etc etc.
We will all be able to say - yeah I've met the stereotypical (name any country here) person.
But there is no need to get stirred up about it - I laugh when people tell me I am (or am not) typical. I invoke the typicality when I feel like it. "I'm Australian, of course I can drink beer/swim/play tennis" "I'm Australian, of course I grew up riding horses" etc. Not every Australian can or does do these things (and my tennis is terrible!!), and we all know that logically.
I met what I would call 'stereotypical' USAnians, Germans, French, Israelis, Italians etc. I have met people who match some of the criteria required and are totally different in other areas, I have met people who have NONE of the traits.
But it is easy to get defensive about the negative sides of stereotypicality, and unfortunately, it is impossible to say it NEVER happens or has happened.
Make people lose the image by your own actions.
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MOP you really need to get a life. I will not let you turn this thread into a fight.
And that's why you're in with the personal insults already and defending of the stereotyping individuals based on national origin. bibibibibi
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Every nationality has it's stereotypes. Unfortunately there are just enough people that fit each stereotype to make it difficult to state that the stereotype is totally wrong. After all - that's why they arose in the first place.
Substitute race and ethnicity for nationality. What is the difference?
Minority opinion does not speak for the majority fact, but it is shockign that it comes from people who teach history, and had I posted the same thing Eagle said but changed it to be about Canadians, I'd bet a few people would be jumping all over me. Call it a hunch.
But the rest of us are also aware that many, many, many, more people don't fit that image.
Thank goodness.
Think of the stereotypes of Aussies.
Bronzed, beer-drinking, meat-pie eating, (real)football-loving, slow-talking etc etc.
Did a government broadcaster finance hours of programming making fun of that - in a nation that wasn't Australia and passed it off as truth?
But there is no need to get stirred up about it - I laugh when people tell me I am (or am not) typical. I invoke the typicality when I feel like it. "I'm Australian, of course I can drink beer/swim/play tennis" "I'm Australian, of course I grew up riding horses" etc. Not every Australian can or does do these things (and my tennis is terrible!!), and we all know that logically.
I'd laugh about it if the bogus stereotyeps weren't utter fabrications re-inforced by state financed media (i. e. the CBC..... and weren't thrown out with the verocity of an ephithet.
But it is easy to get defensive about the negative sides of stereotypicality, and unfortunately, it is impossible to say it NEVER happens or has happened.
Inversely, it's impossible to say that it is not unfair, unjust, and a sign of poor character.
Make people lose the image by your own actions.
I'd like to think that, but when it's laid out as "guilty until proven innocent," the odds are against you, since individuals who subscribe to such stereotypes will find truth to them in the most innocuous of actions.
I strongly suspect if I had posted what Eagle posted but changed the nationalities I'd have people jumping down my throat.
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Substitute race and ethnicity for nationality. What is the difference?
None at all. I've met just enough alcoholic Aborigines to say that SOME of them meet the stereoptype. I've met just enough "whinging Poms" to say that SOME of them meet the stereotype, and I can say it about almost any nationality I have met.
Did a government broadcaster finance hours of programming making fun of that - in a nation that wasn't Australia and passed it off as truth?
For heaven's sake YES!! The British did it to us "colonials' for a 100 years!! Just have a look at some of the British BBC programs that poke fun of every nation they ever invaded. Blimey!!
I'd laugh about it if the bogus stereotyeps weren't utter fabrications re-inforced by state financed media (i. e. the CBC..... and weren't thrown out with the verocity of an ephithet.
I think in the end we ended up being secure enough that we started to take a sort of perverse pride in some of the negative stereotypes that the Brits promoted. (And we got our revenge by sending them Barry McKenzie, Edna Everage, Kylie Minogue and Rolf Harris!) The Australian Government also funds programs with these stereotypes.
I strongly suspect if I had posted what Eagle posted but changed the nationalities I'd have people jumping down my throat.
This one I think depends on the nationality being mentioned. As an Aussie I would have decried the poverty of my education system, noted that there were people who had never crossed a particular bridge in their home town, but maybe in our defence, brought up stats to show that we were one of the most travelled nationalities around, thereby demonstrating a willingness to be 'citizens of the world".
MOP - NO-ONE is having a go at you!! Have a beer and calm down! agagagagag
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(And we got our revenge by sending them Barry McKenzie, Edna Everage, Kylie Minogue and Rolf Harris!)
but not MENTAL AS ANYTING ? ;)
The Australian Government also funds programs with these stereotypes.
Do tell. I'd like to know.
MOP - NO-ONE is having a go at you!! Have a beer and calm down! agagagagag
Thanks. I might have a cold one in a bit.
I would ahve found Eagle's statemetn jsut as offensive had it been about Oz, and NZ, Canada and Mexico, etc. I've mentioend my views on nationalism in another thread and while I view nationalism as an extension of primitive territorialism, I also view denigrating people from regions of the world in blanket, patently false statements (that may have been thrown out with a degree of seriousness) equally primitive.
I guess I was raised strange: love a person for hte person. Hate a person for their individual actions, and try to see the forrest for the trees about groups. Bad apples don't always ruin a "bunch," and as you've made clear - they don't represent the whole, either.
Anyway, thanks for the beer and I'll hit the fridge now. Sadly it only has Sam Adams pilfered from leftovers of a wrap party, but it'll do.jjjjjjjjjj
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The Australian Government also funds programs with these stereotypes.
Do tell. I'd like to know.
Most Australian comedy that is REALLY good is funded by the Oz government through the ABC. 'Kath and Kim', 'Australia you're standing in it', 'The Election Chaser', 'Frontline' ... the list is endless. 'The Adventures of Barry McKenzie' was one of the early films totally funded by this government established and funded body.
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The Australian Government also funds programs with these stereotypes.
Do tell. I'd like to know.
Most Australian comedy that is REALLY good is funded by the Oz government through the ABC. 'Kath and Kim', 'Australia you're standing in it', 'The Election Chaser', 'Frontline' ... the list is endless. 'The Adventures of Barry McKenzie' was one of the early films totally funded by this government established and funded body.
I meant programs that reinforce stereotypes of other nations, as in their entire existence is predicated upon belitting another nation. Such is the case with what I witnessed with THIS HOUR HAS 22 MINUTES/TALKING TO AMERICANS (a small part of the former and a bigger part of the later) a few years back.
a trivial aside: KATH & KIM runs on either the Independent Film Channel or the Sundance Channel in the States. I'm familiar with the first Barry McKenzie film but will try to pretend the Dame Edna schtick doesn't exist. I'm still partial to the Norman Gunston character portrayed by Garry McDonald: comedy gold. That character was a precursor to what Sasha Baron Coen has been doing internationally.
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We had one of these citizenship tests too. First it was declared to be too difficult, then 99% of the people who took it passed and then the nationalist right-wing, racist party got all up in arms and criticized it for being too easy...even though few days earlier they defended the opinion that it was too difficult bibibibibi
As for stereotypes, I agree. Why is it that everyone thinks Scandinavians are tall, blond and blue-eyed?? Well, I mean, the good looking ones are, no doubt about that. It just makes me very, very angry!!! And why is it that people think red-haired folk have uncontrollable tempers...makes me really angry too..err...
Stereotypical Dane: Belongs to the happiest people on Earth. Likes to drink beer. Gets very angry about taxes, likes to complain about the weather and is either 1)blond, 2)blue-eyed, 3)pale or a combination of these. Having blue eyes and being ridiculously pale, I live up to these stereotypes. So, beer on me agagagagag agagagagag agagagagag now, lets discuss the many ways we hate rain and why taxes suck and make fun of how people from Jutland talk.
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Moonie, not saying all or even many Usanians but about 10 years ago a couple of guys from S. Carolina asked a friend and I where they could find some good skiing. They had ski racks and looked ready to roll. I thought they were joking but serious they were.
It was an hour south of Toronto in July.
Let's face it, most people from all countries are morons or at least apathetic to the surrounding world.
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And why is it that people think red-haired folk have uncontrollable tempers...makes me really angry too..err...
Never, never have a red-haired boyfriend was a warning I grew up with from different relatives...as in never, never - worse people around! You should have seen the fuss when I was living with a red-head! ahahahahah
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Barry McKenzie definitely reinforced British stereoptypes of Aussies!! And Oz stereotypes of the Brits. ahahahahah
I'm glad "Kath and Kim" is getting an airing (my daughters gave me that set and also "John Saffron Takes on God" series for last Christmas - they know me!)- but how much of it has had to be changed? "The Castle" and other Oz comedies had to be changed quite a bit before they could jump the cultural gap.
But would you seriously contend that American programmers (gov't sponsored ones included) don't reinforce stereotypes of minority groups in America, of Mexicans, Colombians etc etc? Truly? Because watching a program like Apocalypto made my Mexican friends ANGRY - their view was that the history was stuffed up and the Mayans didn't come off looking OK as a group either. Even directed by Mel Gibson (a man not known for his tolerance)it was still funded by US business interests convinced enough people would want to see it to make money from it.
We run the military on stereotypes - and Gov'ts of all colours sure as hell reinforce those stereotypes to make it easier to kill 'the other'. Governments are using 'profiling' to detect 'terrorists' as visa applicants. What is another name for 'profiling' but stereotyping?
Governments DO consciously support stereotyping of different groups to gain support for both domestic and foreign policies. AND the average citizen BUYS it - lock stock and barrel.
We do have to be ware that we don't perpetrate this ourselves.
But - the advice still works - by your actions, change individuals views. The Japanese teachers here are the ones doing the work to combat the Chinese governments inculcation of stereotyping. You and I can do it with the negative stereotypes of our countries.
(Although if it means I have to give up drinking - ... maybe I'll keep it a bit longer!) agagagagag
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I'm glad "Kath and Kim" is getting an airing (my daughters gave me that set and also "John Saffron Takes on God" series for last Christmas - they know me!)- but how much of it has had to be changed? "The Castle" and other Oz comedies had to be changed quite a bit before they could jump the cultural gap.
I don't think they change KATH & KIM. As for THE CASTLE, I blame that on Warner Bros. or whoever its American distributor was.
You are well aware that they ADR'd (Additional Dialogue Redorded) MAD MAX back in the day with American actors - you know - because they assumed folks wouldn't know that a windscreen and a windshield were one in the same ::)
I literally counted the differences in the dialogue and they totalled 5; all of which would have been easily figured out by anyone confused, simply by context of use!
Really! It took over 25 years before Americans could hear the film with its original, synch sound version. bibibibibi I blame American International Pictures (its distributor at the time) for that. Meanwhile, STONE, from around the same period - was released with its original Oz flavoring (by another distributor).
But would you seriously contend that American programmers (gov't sponsored ones included) don't reinforce stereotypes of minority groups in America, of Mexicans, Colombians etc etc? Truly?
The government sponsored ones? Nah. In fact, if you google Ken Burns' THE WAR and recsearch the controversy around it, you'll see that they actually made him rework the film because he inadvertantly neglected the entire contribution Latino Americans made in the war effort (WWII). PBS does its best to respect diversity. Heck, SESAME STREET is a PBS production.
We only have one public television channel, and it's relayed through regional offices that decide which of the publically funded programs it will broadcast. It's under so many magnifying glasses from so many political pressure groups that they go out of their way to be all things to all people.
However, the privately owned networks (one of which is owned by an Ozzie - Rupert Murdoch & FOX) are answerable only to adertising dollars and the FCC. The FCC don't enforce fair representation. Just the Geroge Carlin seven dirty words, nudity, graphic violence and a lot of technical specs and licensing that have noting to do with content, for the most part).
Still, that is another can of worms and is a domestic issue veering from the issue at hand.
Because watching a program like Apocalypto made my Mexican friends ANGRY - their view was that the history was stuffed up and the Mayans didn't come off looking OK as a group either. Even directed by Mel Gibson (a man not known for his tolerance)it was still funded by US business interests convinced enough people would want to see it to make money from it.
Gibson's company - ICON - has its financing came from Australian, German and American interests, actually. Just pointing out a fact. I also believe an overwhelming majority of Americans didn't see the film. I know I haven't, but I try not to give my money to anti-semites. The premise was interesting.
Governments DO consciously support stereotyping of different groups to gain support for both domestic and foreign policies. AND the average citizen BUYS it - lock stock and barrel.
That's over simplification of it. Many average citizens in my country can't "buy anything," be it literally or figuratively in the United States. They're too busy trying to stay alive and provide the basics. As the situaton in Iraq, the horrifying, deliberate "let them eat cake" handling of post-Katrina New Orleans, and the recent Scooter Libby fiasco have proven: we don't run our government. It runs us.
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Moonie, not saying all or even many Usanians but about 10 years ago a couple of guys from S. Carolina asked a friend and I where they could find some good skiing. They had ski racks and looked ready to roll. I thought they were joking but serious they were.
It was an hour south of Toronto in July.
That's comic gold.
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Moonie, not saying all or even many Usanians but about 10 years ago a couple of guys from S. Carolina asked a friend and I where they could find some good skiing. They had ski racks and looked ready to roll. I thought they were joking but serious they were.
It was an hour south of Toronto in July.
Dude! Is that a true story, 'cause I'm can't stop laughing. I will be sure to mention it to a good friend of mine from South Carolina.
Stereotypes make for a good discussion in the classroom as well. I get all kinds of crazy conceptions from my students. Koreans seem to agree that Canadians are lazy, Aussies are easygoing and selfish, Irish are always happy and like to get drunk every night, Brits and Japanese are very polite, but totally insincere, and Chinese are not to be trusted and will eat anything.
Aside from the Irish drinking stereotype, most of these were new and fascinating to me. Are Canadians really lazy? Are Aussies really selfish? It hasn't been true in my experience.
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Yeah well, I was once asked by some American tourists if we had Vikings in reservations. But stereotypes abound whereever you go. Brits have bad teeth, Aussies live off huge slabs of meat, Fosters and carry really big knives, all Americans are like Dirty Harry, Finnish people enjoy two things: drinking and throwing knives, Canadians all speak French, finish their sentences with the word "eh", seem unreasonably antagonistic towards the letter "o" and live in a country where it snows all the time and grizzly bears and beavers run around willy-nilly, all Norwegians can ski before they can walk, Irish people all have red hair and loves to fight and..well..I can't think of anymore examples. Stereotypes are silly and worthless. I don't think I have come across what the stereotypical Dane is supposed to be but whatever it is, I wouldn't care. Stereotypes are funny, if they are meant to be funny, as is the example of the Simpson which is riddled with stereotypes. Then there are morons, like the Danish Neo Nazi schmucks who propogate their not-so-funny and idiotic stereotypes via an illegal radio.
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Dude! Is that a true story, 'cause I'm can't stop laughing. I will be sure to mention it to a good friend of mine from South Carolina.
Yeah, It's true. My friend gave him directions north, very north.
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Yeah well, I was once asked by some American tourists if we had Vikings in reservations.
Were they from South Carolina and were their sons on a ski trip to Canada in the summer? ahahahahah
Aussies live off huge slabs of meat,
That's a new one. I never heard that.
and carry really big knives,
A knife is an improvement over someone saying boomerang llllllllll
Stereotypes are funny, if they are meant to be funny, as is the example of the Simpson which is riddled with stereotypes.
If someone's an equal opportunity satirist then I'm fine with that. THE SIMPSONS are a good example of that. SOUTH PARK as well. Those are simply examples of a recent vintage. There are more out there.
Neo Nazi schmucks who propogate their not-so-funny and idiotic stereotypes via an illegal radio.
We have them on legal radio here. Their names are: Sean Hannity, Rush Limbaugh and Bill O'Reilly. bpbpbpbpbp
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So Mr. Eagle, history teacher, sir - please tell me the correct answer for the Metis. That question was not on the test I took, but I would have answered half French and half Native American. That's what I learned in school. Did their genetics change since I was a kid?
Eagle, I'm also curious to know how you did on the test, being recently departed from Canada and a history major/teacher.
Well, M
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An Editorial Moment
Let me begin by acknowledging the number of complaints I've received about this thread today. Thank you for your concern and your input.
All I can really do is the same thing I always do: Try And Do The Right Thing.
And it's a little cloudy in this case.
There was a blanket statement made in here...and like all blanket statements it's just wrong. Some Americans are fine with geography...I, for example, will gladly take you all on in geography with one hand behind my back. uuuuuuuuuu
Anyway: we all preach this; but we must also practice it as well.
On the other hand, the little slip made did definitely NOT warrant the sudden dark and ugly turn this thread took. This is supposed to be a friendly community, remember? Those who want to remain a part of it need to behave in such a way as to preserve it.
We've had too many "sudden dark and ugly turns" on here lately.
I'm not going to tolerate another one.
This thread seems to have gotten itself back on track.
Please keep it that way.
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Noted. Proceeding civilly.
As a Canadian myself I can tell you most Canadians I know couldn't find South Africa on a map...name the capitol of Australia...or the native language of Brazil.
Our entire national identity is based on comparing ourselves with the US in what I view as a very smug and ugly way. I am in no way proud of my country and this is one the biggest reasons.
I too grew up with the stereotype of "the ugly American" planted in my head by people who had never even been to America. Having since been to America numerous occasions (not to mention meeting many Americans in China) I now see this for the ignorant ugly predjudice that it was.
I don't intend to live in China forever but I also have no intention of returning to a country where Molson beer commercials are considered official displays of patriotism. To quote Graham Chapman in "Monty Python and the Holy Grail"......"On second thought...let's not go there. It's a silly place."
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I'm not sure what it means but I've found it interesting that when I meet people abroad most Americans I have met will introduce themselves by state while everyone else uses country.
Canada
Australia
Ireland
Florida
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I'm not sure what it means but I've found it interesting that when I meet people abroad most Americans I have met will introduce themselves by state while everyone else uses country.
Guilty as charged. If my friends and students here were asked where I am from, they would reply with "Texas" not the U.S. or America. It's the same with other American expats I know. A lot of us, if not most, do introduce ourselves by state.
I'm not sure what it means either.
On the other hand, when I meet a person from Canada, China, Brazil, etc. I usually ask what part, or what city. There is a big difference between Newfoundland, Calgary, Montreal, and Vancouver.
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Perhaps we know that not everybody will know where Alberta or New South Wales is but You guys expect that everyone knows where Oregon is.
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Generally, I have found this true as well. I think it's amusing.
Maybe it's that we don't expect others to know the internals of our own country - or maybe because it's also pretty common for "Where are you from?" to be a difficult question.
Do you mean where was I born, where did I grow up or which place do I identify with as home or where did I last live? Different answers to each question - which I think is becoming more common in Western countries.
I often say Australia or Nancheng (the suburb I live in, in Dongguan) without trying to be difficult, until I know if it's a real question or just a conversation filler.
I really don't expect many people to know Mooloolaba on Queensland's Sunshine Coast (although many would like to if they knew what a beautiful spot it is!)
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Point taken, Stil.
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I really don't expect many people to know Mooloolaba
Got some of that on the bottom of my shoe just yesterday.
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Perhaps we know that not everybody will know where Alberta or New South Wales is but You guys expect that everyone knows where Oregon is.
Inversely, it could be that we aren't so wrapped up in nationalism as to have to specify country. We are nationals by birth, but the U. S., like Canada, Africa, Russia, Australia and China - is large, and very few statesa re alike in their character. We are also indoctrinated in the belief of individualism. While conformity tends to rule the rooos,t there is still the veneer of individualism.
Texas is a great example. A lot of Texans I've met explained the whole "republic of Texas" phenomenon.
Look at our flags. The U. S. has a star for every state. Few flags go so far as to point out every little nook and cranny in its political fibre. Psychologicall ya lot coudl be read into that. historically, the basis is a bit different. It was about different colonies joining together against a single kingdm to form a nation, and the trend continued on.
Canada has a singular Maple Leaf. Even in the most base symbolism there's a dichotomy.
However, to read into people mentioned into state they are from is reading way too much into things. It is not withotu irony that I've heard similar queeries into why Americans mention state above country from Canadians, but that begs the question why so many Canadians feel the need to wear flags out of possible fear htey might be considered anything but Canadian, and despite what abysmal or progressive state the U. S. could be in, few feel the need to go abroad and wear their flag? Perhaps, for Americans, it's the reality that the only political voice we have isl ocally, and what transpires nationally isnt' really as true a reflection as the changes we can make - and hte power we have - locally?
Out of the myriad of nationalities I've met in my travels abroad, the predeominantly alrge number of people who feel the need to wave their flag - rather offensively, in my opinion - outside of hteir soil tend to be Canadians. Of all the Irishmen and Kiwis I've ever met - maybe a hundred - not a single one wore their flags on backpacks and jackets, and when it came to t-shirts it was only sporting ones. I can only recall one Australian who displayed their flag - and that was on a keychain. Only one - out of more than I can count. Americans: not a single one. This ddates back to the golden era of Clinton's international policies. South Africans? The flags were kept at home, not shoved out for the world to see. Sometimes they'd have rugby jersies with the flag. More often than not it was something with a Springbok - than the flag - that was displayed. An animal, not a flag.
No, my experiences throughout Asia and in parts of Europe - the only nationality where flags were flaunted with abandon were Canadian. I wondered why.
Pride? Excessive pride can be vanity.
Inversely, the only tiems I was ever discriminated against because of my nationality - in a hostile fashion - were by South Koreans and Canadians living abroad.
Meanwhile, in the many times I've been in Canada proper, I had a great time and was very comfortable and the jingoism was not apparent - and the flag waving made sense. I was in Canada. I never had to endure lectures or ridicule simply because I was born in a certain country. It only happened when I was abroad. bibibibibi
I'm still struggling to make sense of this strange phenomenon.
As for states - Stil, you're reading way too much into it. That's my take.
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Maybe it's that we don't expect others to know the internals of our own country - or maybe because it's also pretty common for "Where are you from?" to be a difficult question.
Do you mean where was I born, where did I grow up or which place do I identify with as home or where did I last live? Different answers to each question - which I think is becoming more common in Western countries.
If I hear a variation of the North American accent(s) and am asked where I'm from, I answer "My mome and dad." Really. Judge me for who I am, not because of where I come from.
I never had to do that until I spent time in Korea and had to endure personal insults and outright discrimination and hostility from many Koreans and many - not all, but frankly from many Canadians. I'm talking 1:3 odds that jingoism would rear its head. In Canada - never. not once.
Some people would ask where I was from and after I'd tell them, honestly; after that I'd get more questions that felt like they wanted to gage my own personality, but not outright hostility. In Taiwan, the hostility coming from many Canadians I met was still there. In Japan it was the same.
I appreciate the life lesson, though. Where I come from doesn't matter in the end because it's where I'm at, at any time and place that is important.
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Maybe it's that we don't expect others to know the internals of our own country - or maybe because it's also pretty common for "Where are you from?" to be a difficult question.
Do you mean where was I born, where did I grow up or which place do I identify with as home or where did I last live? Different answers to each question - which I think is becoming more common in Western countries.
If I hear a variation of the North American accent(s) and am asked where I'm from, I answer "My mome and dad." Really. Judge me for who I am, not because of where I come from.
I appreciate the life lesson, though. Where I come from doesn't matter in the end because it's where I'm at, at any time and place that is important.
I try that approach here but it's both a losing battle and a concept beyond the ability of most Chinese to understand. And to be fair when I meet a fellow foreigner I usually ask where they're from. It's just making conversation...not an attempt to pass summary judgement on somebody based on their nationality.
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And to be fair when I meet a fellow foreigner I usually ask where they're from. It's just making conversation...not an attempt to pass summary judgement on somebody based on their nationality.
Yeah, and usually if people get the humor in my token answer (i. e. "my mom and my dad,") it's a good indicator that such an individual proably isn't too concerned. What bothered/bothers me more than what I've experienced from the Koreans who held my place of birth against me than the Canadians is that many of the discriminating Koreans weren't lecturing me on how their nation was accepting of others and was not forcing world policy. It was something deeper. Something historical. Confused and often inaccurate and unfair, but there was a basis for it. However, the hostility I received from Canadians had no foundation in actual war or cutlural wars. It was also completely one-sided.
Unlike some people, I know from personal experiences that the bad apples don't represent the bunch. I'm just confused why there is a predominently high number of Canadian jingoists traveling abroad. In America, the insecure flag wavers generally seem happy to not leave the county.
Is there any light that could be shed on why - from my personal experiences - it seems to be the exact opposite with some Canadians?
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One of the reasons Canadians display their flags on their backpacks (and this is said without any intent to offend Americans) is so that we are not mistaken as being from the U.S. when travelling abroad. I have read this little tidbit of advice travel more than once. It appears that there are some international destinations that may be less fond of the United States than others.
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I think that many Canadians abroad do not want to be confused as Americans. Could be an inferiority complex or just the fact that we will be treated better if it is not assumed we are. Britain and Australia do not have that same kind of stigma attached. I have met some Americans that have had Canadian patches on their backpacks for this very reason although it doesn't seem to happen anymore.
Two years ago an American friend of mine was travelling through China and came by my small town for a visit. He wanted to see one of my classes and meet the kids. Knowing he always introduced himself as being from Cali, I mentioned to him that when they ask, they probably won't know where California is. He replied that everybody knows California because of Hollywood and movies. When he introduced himself, he got blank stares. The stares didn't change when he mentioned Hollywood. They did know Los Angeles because of Kobe Bryant and Shaquille O'Neil. He was shocked that middle school students in Hunan province (a place he had never heard of) would not know of California.
The reason I mentioned Oregon before is that when I first came to China, there was a get together for the 20 foreign teachers that would be working. Every American used their state over country. One fella was from Oregon and other than the other Americans and me from Canada, nobody knew where that was. None of the Brits or Aussies nor the Irish. I would think he would know that so why not say Oregon USA?
Both of them are good guys and friends.
I never had to do that until I spent time in Korea and had to endure personal insults and outright discrimination and hostility from many Koreans and many - not all, but frankly from many Canadians.
Perhaps the Canadians (and Koreans) you met don't have a problem with all Americans.... just one. wwwwwwwwww
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I think that many Canadians abroad do not want to be confused as Americans.
I. E. insecurity.
Could be an inferiority complex or just the fact that we will be treated better if it is not assumed we are.
I. E. insecurity.
I have met some Americans that have had Canadian patches on their backpacks for this very reason although it doesn't seem to happen anymore.
I. E. insecurity.
Two years ago an American friend of mine was travelling through China and came by my small town for a visit. He wanted to see one of my classes and meet the kids. Knowing he always introduced himself as being from Cali, I mentioned to him that when they ask, they probably won't know where California is. He replied that everybody knows California because of Hollywood and movies. When he introduced himself, he got blank stares. The stares didn't change when he mentioned Hollywood. They did know Los Angeles because of Kobe Bryant and Shaquille O'Neil. He was shocked that middle school students in Hunan province (a place he had never heard of) would not know of California.
Interesting story. However, it doesn't explain much.
How old was this "American?" That would make sense.
The reason I mentioned Oregon before is that when I first came to China, there was a get together for the 20 foreign teachers that would be working. Every American used their state over country. One fella was from Oregon and other than the other Americans and me from Canada, nobody knew where that was. None of the Brits or Aussies nor the Irish. I would think he would know that so why not say Oregon USA?
Why is country so important?
Both of them are good guys and friends.
It's good to hear that. Barriers should be broken, not enforced.
Perhaps the Canadians (and Koreans) you met don't have a problem with all Americans.... just one. wwwwwwwwww
Nice way to play blame game. llllllllll
How about if I told you of instances where I wasn't the one who told them I was an American, but a companion identified themselves as one, and thus they took me to be one, and of course, I won't lie to people - and they then took to going out of their way to lecture us about how bad America was despite the fact it wasn't the subject at hand? instance #1 of about twenty nasty ones.
How about my similar observations from a barstool in Pusan of the same exact thing with different individuals - complete strangers on several occasions?
How about happening to be in the back of an elevator in a department store and hearing two young ladies with maple leaf flags on their packs - unbeknownst to them anotehr foreinger was lurkign behind them 9 i. e. me) - only to overhear them rag on one of thier coworkers and turn that into observations about Americans in general?
How about the time I was having a great night out in Seoul with some new aquaintances whom I got along well with only for them to spot a soldier and then gush with very similar rhetoric that Eagle posted (almost verbatim, actually - which leads me to believe it's taught in schools) only to be shcoked to learn that I was an American.
How about working with people who went out of their way to try and turn an entire school's staff against the two American teachers simply because they didn't like Americans? It backfired, and was made clear to us by students and fellow (Korean and Canadian and Kiwi nationals) teachers?
What about the time in Kangnam when I shared a taxi during rush hour with a Canadian expat (they told me so though I dind't ask - I simply guessed from the maple leaf on their backpack)? They had only been in the country a week, didn't speak nor read Korean and needed to get somehwere and I translated for them - only to have them assume I was Canadian and tell me they didn't like that there were "so many Americans" working at their hagwon... llllllllll
How about watching CNN at a bar in Hong Kong (Lam Kwai Fong) when coverage of hurricane Katrina came on as it happeend and the kid with the maple leaf on his backpack (man, there's just way too many) blurted out, "I f@#king hate Americans!"
Got bandwidth? I could go into my personal journal and post week-by-week accoutns of similar incidents in South Korean and Taiwan and Japan since the late nineties. I'd have to spend a few hours finding the little observations tucked between paragraphs of other (more interesting) experiiences and observations, but I could give you a laundry list of them if you really want to know and make a final judgement call. yyyyyyyyyy
Yeah, I'm sure it was all me - especially the fly-on-the-wall observations where people didn't even know I was there, let alone who I was or where I was from. ahahahahah
Despite all of this, I don't think it's a majority of Canadians. My experiences in Canada were polar opposite to what I've experienced with some (all of them insecure) Canadians abroad. ahahahahah
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Interesting story. However, it doesn't explain much.
He didn't understand that the geography of America may not be known by all of the world even though he knew little of China. Cultural arrogance perhaps.
How old was this "American?" That would make sense.
I never asked. I didn't want to judge him by his age only for who he is
Why is country so important?
Why is state? It's not that country is more important just easier for others to know. Depending on who I'm talking to I might say I'm from Aldershot, Burlington, Ontario, Toronto or Canada. Most people would know a major city before they knew a state or province. Most people in China would not know Oregon but Portland would be known by many (mostly because of the NBA)
It's good to hear that. Barriers should be broken, not enforced.
Oh, yes it was a tough barrier for me but I am proud that I was able to overcome it.
But actually you have me convinced Moonie. Most Canadians are insecure. Most hate America and Americans. We would never leave our homes without our keys, wallets and maple leaf flags. In our free time we wander the streets hoping against hope to find an evil American that we can mock.
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Now, now, let's be civil, gentlemen. I really rather doubt Americans and Canadians share such animosity towards each other. Danes and Swedes pretend to have something against each other too but that is mostly when the football season starts. The Swedish come here to drink our beer, as their government would make an ultra-Puritanical, tee-totalling Temperance League preacher look like Barney Gumble, and we go there to enjoy their nature and, if we feel suicidal, cruise the roads in search for an elk to hit.
I remember once, after explaining my humble origins, if Denmark was not the capital of Norway. If I meet an American, I may ask him/her what state he/she hails from, as a conversation starter, seeing as my knowledge of the individual states is quite limited. If I meet a Canadian who says he/she hails from Nunavut or Moosejaw or Calgary, it's the same thing. Much the same if I told you I grew up in Charlottenlund. Unless you have been to Charlottenlund.
Now, let's be mean to people from Jutland..errr...there are no Juttish people here, right agagagagag agagagagag
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I never asked. I didn't want to judge him by his age only for who he is
Age tends to indicate experience. Lack of experience might explain such a habit. Simple logic. afafafafaf
Why is country so important?
Why is state? [/quote]
You post lead me to believe that you placed the importance on state being mentioned over country.
It's not that country is more important just easier for others to know. Depending on who I'm talking to I might say I'm from Aldershot, Burlington, Ontario, Toronto or Canada. Most people would know a major city before they knew a state or province. Most people in China would not know Oregon but Portland would be known by many (mostly because of the NBA)
But perhaps the individual only identifies with the state so they are very specific, and maybe to break the ice they want the part to ask another question ike, "So, tell me more about ___(name of state)."
Do you get angry if a Chinese perso nmentiones the name of some city you never heard of instead of a province?
Whatever the case it's silly on both sides.
But actually you have me convinced Moonie. Most Canadians are insecure. Most hate America and Americans. We would never leave our homes without our keys, wallets and maple leaf flags. In our free time we wander the streets hoping against hope to find an evil American that we can mock.
I guess only overseas, and even then it appears you'd be one out of three on this.
It's interesting how you take my personal experiences and becasue you - a Canadian - are in denial, or most likely just never had to witness such things (given you are a Canadian - and maybe even one who wears a flag to let the world know this, not that anyone really cared) and pointed the finger of insult on me.
You then ignore everything I've stated thus far, and numerous times (that it's a minority of insecure jingoists and not representative of Canadians as a whole) and only re-inforce an earlier opinion that had I posted what Eagle posted and changed it to place insult on Canadians as opposed to Americans, you'd probably be in an uproar about it.
llllllllll
This leads me to a point: put yourself in the other person's shoes, and if you took issue with an unfair, broad-stroke stereotype wouldn't you speak up too? Wouldn't you wonder why such a phenomenon of rabid, jingoistic insecurity exists amongst some people abroad?
As an American I am only used to seeing such gross displays of "I'm #1. My country rules and you suck!" on a grand scale IN America and South Korea; and with pretty much that kind of simplistic abandon. It depresses me that such ills are being carried outside of Canada and by people in positions of authority. hhhhhhhhhh I certainly never witnessed such displays of insecurity within Canada proper. bfbfbfbfbf
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Now, now, let's be civil, gentlemen. I really rather doubt Americans and Canadians share such animosity towards each other.
Americans, in general don't. For better or for worse most simply don't care. Our government certainly doesn't finance sitcoms belitting Americans to bolster Canadian nationalism.
Danes and Swedes pretend to have something against each other too but that is mostly when the football season starts.
The playful antagonism you reference, and the one I've seen bandied about on various rugby pitches by some Zozies and Kiwis is often jsut htat: playful antagonism.
However, the anti-American rheatoric I've experienced and been subejcted to by Canadians is almost entirely one-sided, and jsut as ridicuoulsy incorrect and offensive and painted in as broad a stroke as Eagle's post. Sometimes verbatim. There's no playfulness to it. Outside of tht one television special and the series that spun it off - I never actually had any negative experiences within Canada. It' a country I quite like, and ddespite meeting a great many scary folks with a major hard on about the United States - I've met a great many of wonderful people too, free of such grotesque insecurities.
Maybe that's the problem? Americans could care less and dont' travel the world going out of their way to bash Canadians at ever turn, but a sad enough number of Canadians do.
Outside of Niagra falls, film and television production, hockey and baseall: there isn't much going on between our nations. Not even on a playful level. It's just nothing.
I remember once, after explaining my humble origins, if Denmark was not the capital of Norway. If I meet an American, I may ask him/her what state he/she hails from, as a conversation starter, seeing as my knowledge of the individual states is quite limited. If I meet a Canadian who says he/she hails from Nunavut or Moosejaw or Calgary, it's the same thing. Much the same if I told you I grew up in Charlottenlund. Unless you have been to Charlottenlund.
Which is why I find it funny some people make a big deal out of the state thing. ahahahahah
Now, let's be mean to people from Jutland..errr...there are no Juttish people here, right agagagagag agagagagag
I think I need background to better appreciate that joke. It's a joke, right? uuuuuuuuuu
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Well, People from Zealand and People from Jutland often make fun of each other. Zealanders are silly townies with an inflated sense of their own importance and Juttish people are naive hayseeds. And Juttish people talk funny. And, as I have tried to tell Juttish people for the three years I went to Uni there, I do not have an inflated sense of my own importance, they just failed to see how great I was..err..am. Then we would buy each other beer and make fun of Swedes.
Can't the Canadians and Americans just buy each other beer and talk trash about the French?
As for the importance of states, don't really care whether Americans are from Oklahoma or Illinois, as long as I get to make fun of the president without being beaten up, I'm happy. And they can in turn make fun of the Queen.
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Can't the Canadians and Americans just buy each other beer and talk trash about the French?
Your Juttland bit was funny, but I'm still wrapping my head around the specifics. You have a Ben Elton-like sense of historical humor, Eric, I'll give you that. agagagagag
Outside of bashing the French, which isn't my cup of tea (or stout, if you prefer); that's the basic question I wish everybody would ask before they want to paint oen nation in a broad stroke.
Here's a Canadian whose books helepd pursuade me to visit Canada more often and to look beyond the very negative, way too common Can-jingoism I had/have experienced:
http://www.willferguson.ca/
His sense of satire appears one-sided from the provacative names of his books, but the actual substance of his work is quite the opposite. He loves Canada and he loves the world. Rather than shove a flag around and talk smack he uses humor and a kind of, "why not check this out," approach.
And... like most of us here, he spent time teaching English abroad (Japan).
As for the importance of states, don't really care whether Americans are from Oklahoma or Illinois, as long as I get to make fun of the president without being beaten up, I'm happy.
And how!. jjjjjjjjjj
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Americans, in general don't. For better or for worse most simply don't care. Our government certainly doesn't finance sitcoms belitting Americans to bolster Canadian nationalism.
Indeed. I wonder how funny most Canadians would find Rick Mercer's schtick if it was an American show where an American guy asked a bunch of Canadians questions they had no good reason to know the answer to and then only aired the worst answers.
My guess is most Canadians would to take some degree of offence to this. This is complete hypocrisy .
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MOP, I haven't noticed being treated in any way differently by Koreans or Canadians because of my nationality. I've easily befriended many Canadians. They're mostly an open-minded, fun, and easygoing lot. Because of the U.S. military presence here, and because of world politics, there is a lot of animosity in Korea toward America. But, I've never felt any of it directed at me personally. I enjoy openly discussing these issues with Korean friends. I have never felt judged, because of where my passport was issued.
On the other hand, "Texas" does touch a nerve with some, but I welcome the opportunity to distance myself from Bush and his politics.
I find your experience intriguing though. Perhaps, I'm just naive. I'm going on a road trip next weekend. I think I'll go undercover as a Canadian (maple leaf patch and all) and see if I can get mixed up in some good ol' anti-American rhetoric. It'll be fun and educational to stereotype and bash some Yanks.
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MOP, I haven't noticed being treated in any way differently by Koreans or Canadians because of my nationality.
I'm glad to hear that. I'm sure your time has been enjoyable there.
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The majority of Chinese asked hwere they come from answer as "Shaanxi de Xi'an" - state followed by name - but this is a cultural thing. Their addresses go P.R.China, Shaanxi, Xi'an, district, street, building, name.
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Let me console you all with the following: first 3 years in China I had to pretend to be American, Canadian, French, Dutch (wasn't my idea) and more. As much as I hated it - I am actually VERY proud of being Russian; even though at times the fact that I am runs back at me as hell on the speeding wheels - I have created a good reputation for you, folks. And my students - whether Chinese, Korean or Japanese at that time - loved me and praised my "countries" for producing such great teachers cheexyblonde
I am glad I don't have to do that anymore. I didn't do it out of shame of being who I am - in fact it was slowly killing me. I did it as many did and still do for one sole reason - possibility of work. I wouldn't want to be confused with Ukrainians or Serbians not because I am insecure but because even though we have similar roots and despite the fact that I am 1/5 Polish and 1/5 Belorussian, I AN Russian.
So... be yourselves. Fail the tests. Because I don't know any nation so far that know its history - past and current - perfectly. Gosh, there are still tons of people who can't speak properly, leave alone spell!
agagagagag agagagagag agagagagag agagagagag
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Hi MOP - it seems that a bug worked its way into your pants ahahahahah as far as Canadians are concerned. Damn right we don't want to be mistaken for Americans, not because they aren't good people, but simply because we aren't Americans. Canadians are a different kind of people with a different sense of identity (which isn't based on comparison with America). There aren't many of us in population terms. I personally don't appreciate your blanket statements about Canadians as I am sure you don't appreciate blanket statements about Americans. Why don't we define ourselves internationally by province as you indicate Americans define themselves by state is simple. Most of the world hasn't heard of our provinces. If they know anything about our country it is about Toronto, Vancouver and maybe Montreal. The rest is mountains, snow and forests. I include most Americans in this state of non-awareness of provinces. Within country, we do identify ourselves by province. Within provinces we identify ourselves by urban centres (or nearest urban centres). I don't know anyone in Canada who identifies themselves in comparisons with Americans.
Are Canadians anti-American? Generally no, not anymore than many Americans are anti-American. Most Canadians have little interest in their gigantic and powerful neighbour to the south other than as a tourist destination, a shopping experience, a sporting event host, or even as a place where we go to visit our extended family members.
Lighten up, life's too short. Have a beer (Raoul's paying).
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Well said Eagle.
I have worked with many Americans and have American friends.
When asked where I come from I would usually reference an American city that is close to where I live. Giving a Canadian city and Province was hard for them, but north of Rochester NY just across the lake gave them a point they could reference.
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Canadians are a different kind of people with a different sense of identity (which isn't based on comparison with America).
Are Canadians anti-American? Generally no
At the risk of stirring things up on a thread that has calmed down somewhat I have to say as a Canadian I strongly disagree with the first statment and partially disagree with second statement as far as the average blue collar joe goes.
The fact is most other countries see Canadians as Americans whose money is worth less and fair enough from their perspective. The notion that wearing a Canadian flag on your backpack is going to get you better treatment in other countries is both ignorant and superior. I would think if anything it would get you worse treatment because coming into another country waving your flag is really kind of obnoxious.
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as far as Canadians are concerned. Damn right we don't want to be mistaken for Americans, not because they aren't good people, but simply because we aren't Americans.
But that's not the argument nor the point. That's spinning it away from the bone of contention:
Why the hositility? Why the insecuridty? Why the need to bash them? Why the offensive statement from earlier in the thread?
Canadians are a different kind of people with a different sense of identity (which isn't based on comparison with America).
Tht's a contradiction. Why else the flag waving in other nations? First hand experienc tells me it's to say, "I'm not American." I've yet to witness Canadians being offended at being mistaken for Brits, Kiwis, or Ozzies. I've also yet to meet one who explained the patch on their backpacks/jackets/shirts other than to tell the world, "I'm not American."
I personally don't appreciate your blanket statements about Canadians as I am sure you don't appreciate blanket statements about Americans.
I didn't make "blankent statements" about Canada. I talked about experiences I had abroad, and had you read all of my posts you'd see I always went out of my way to point out the different experiences I had between the few bad apples abroad and experiences within the nation itself, and the contrast.
However, you did make a blanket statement about Americans and left it as a general truism. You've yet to address that point or even express regret about it.
I include most Americans in this state of non-awareness of provinces. Within country, we do identify ourselves by province.
And abraod many - far too many, imo - do it by waving flags in people's faces. They're not Sir Edmond Hillary. There's no need to make any territorial claims. So why the jingoism?
I don't know anyone in Canada who identifies themselves in comparisons with Americans.
In Canada - that was my point. I never experienced rabid jingoism, insecurity, and outright hostility in Canada. However, a vocal minority seem to go abroad and export insecurity with an amped up jingoism that rivals the saber rattling of redneck and conservative crypto-fascist Americans.
Are Canadians anti-American? Generally no, not anymore than many Americans are anti-American.
I agree with that statment. However, travels abroad lead me to wonder if many of the jingoists are being exported. That's why I'm stymied. American uber jingoists tend to stay put. The U. K. - more of the same. However, my experiences abroad lead me to believe there is something odd about how many get exported. I'm struggling to understand why this phenomenon happens. I also don't say it's all Canadian expats. Not once have I said that. However, my experiences tell me it's an uncomfortable number. Far too high a number to make sense. Your comments earlier in the thread only added to that depresssing lump.
I'm also trying to understand how a government would finance a program whose sole existence is to belittle Americans to bolster Canadian identity, especially when such rehtoric isn't flowing from the mouths of many of its citizens in-country.
Most Canadians have little interest in their gigantic and powerful neighbour to the south other than as a tourist destination, a shopping experience, a sporting event host, or even as a place where we go to visit our extended family members.
And vice-versa.
Lighten up, life's too short. Have a beer (Raoul's paying).
jjjjjjjjjj
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I'd been under the impression that this issue was pretty much settled out and done. I sure hope so.
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I was chatting with a friend the other day about things we miss from Canada.
One of the things on my list were the Molson Beer Commericals
Which ones? The "My Name Is Joe" (http://youtube.com/watch?v=BRI-A3vakVg) ones (which perpetuated the "I do not live in an igloo" and "I do not speak American" myth that no sane American would sincerely believe), or the one where the American runs out of Molson and walks over a mountain into Canada to get more (http://youtube.com/watch?v=AQr_e8AaHME) (complete with Irish band The Proclaimers' "500 Miles" in the background), or the hip, sexy young 20-somethings saying "I am proud to be a Canadian" as American punk band The Ramones' "Blitzkrieg Bop" (about Germany in WWII) plays in the background (it should be noted that Bud in the U. S. was using the same song in a racing commercial around the same time, and the only direct beer promotion the Ramones ever did while active was for Steel Reserve High-Intensity lager)? ahahahahah
I collect beer commercials (there's 18 hours of Beta-SP tapes full of 'em sitting next to me on a shelf, from 1960-the present; American, British, Ozzie, and Canadian). agagagagag
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Don't forget the Hinterland, Who's Who commercials too, I grew up with those and was happy to see them revamped for the new generation.
I happen to like the I am Canadian commercials and let's not forget the Alexander Keith's guy but we won't talk about the actor's personal life.
Cheers to those both sides of the border agagagagag
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Don't forget the Hinterland, Who's Who commercials too, I grew up with those and was happy to see them revamped for the new generation.
I loved the SCTV spoof of them when the "network" was out of programming and ran "a day" of "CBC Programming." Their spoof of HWWwas pretty spot-on. On one of the recent DVD sets of SCTV they included one of the original HINTERLAND: WHO'S WHO shorts (as well as part of an epsiode of a program that inspired the late, great John Candy's "Gil Fischer's The Fishin' Musician" segments as well) so new generations can enoy the brilliance of SCTV's more Canadian-accented segments (though the HINTERLAND spoof was written by Americans: Joe & Paul Flaherty!)
Get your HINTERLAND on:
http://youtube.com/results?search_query=hinterland%20who%27s%20who&search=Search
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I collect beer commercials (there's 18 hours of Beta-SP tapes full of 'em sitting next to me on a shelf, from 1960-the present; American, British, Ozzie, and Canadian). agagagagag
What about good ol' Kiwi commercials?
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I collect beer commercials (there's 18 hours of Beta-SP tapes full of 'em sitting next to me on a shelf, from 1960-the present; American, British, Ozzie, and Canadian). agagagagag
What about good ol' Kiwi commercials?
I'm working on it! ;) I'm struggling to remember the name of a Kiwi brew, though.
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I collect beer commercials (there's 18 hours of Beta-SP tapes full of 'em sitting next to me on a shelf, from 1960-the present; American, British, Ozzie, and Canadian). agagagagag
What about good ol' Kiwi commercials?
I'm working on it! ;) I'm struggling to remember the name of a Kiwi brew, though.
So, any good Kiwi booze ads out there MoP?
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This - which I believe may be a legitimate advert -
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=u85S2m5WUNg
Reminded me of this SNL advert from 13 years ago:
http://www.dailymotion.com/search/gay/video/53625
Which was taking the piss out of a Bud Light commercial of its time (same music, same cinematography, same set-up, but with one twist).
Funny stuff.
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This - which I believe may be a legitimate advert -
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=u85S2m5WUNg
Oh, I'd forgotten about the ol' Speights' adverts - they were good. This one, and many more, is poking fun at the stereotype of the South Island farmer.