Little Brats

Remember when parents disciplined their children?? I do fear for the future when I see just how lackluster some parents are about their children's behaviour.

In China, I put the blame on a few factors. Grandparents raising and spoiling that one grandchild and schools letting them get away with murder because they don't want mommy and daddy calling up and threatening to remove their little angel and their money from the school.

In Canada (can't speak for other countries) I blame several factors. The government has stepped in and over-policed parents. There are many  young parents (many single young girls) who have no clue how to parent. The last is laziness. It's easier to put the kid in front of a TV then take them out to play and it's easier to give in when a child is screaming for a toy instead of denying them.

How are these kids going to act whe they grow up? 

In Canada (can't speak for other countries) I blame several factors. The government has stepped in and over-policed parents. There are many  young parents (many single young girls) who have no clue how to parent. The last is laziness. It's easier to put the kid in front of a TV then take them out to play and it's easier to give in when a child is screaming for a toy instead of denying them.

Well I'm not from Canukastan  but I agree with you on your point's Bab's but I think you're missing one additional point, that being society's habit of making on the spot values judgments. I'm not a parent but I used to see this all the time while working with the public, it's difficult to describe without illustrating it.

Child of parent throws temper tantrum- Parent just ignores child- Observers comment, "If that was my child they'd cop a swift spanking."

Same people and situation except parent spanks child will result in Observer's commenting, "There is no need for spanking in this day and age."

I have seen it A LOT, poor parent's can't cop a break, damned if they do, damned if they don't. 

Isn't funny how all those observers I witnessed were all instant experts on the rearing of stranger's kids?

Wags you make a great point. I do agree that parents get stuck between a rock and hard place in the public eye. I would also like to add that I don't have kids so I'm no expert. I guess I compare the way kids are today to when I was a child. I constantly see children hitting their parents in anger (I work in a toy store). As a child, something like that would NEVER have crossed my mind. My mother could shut us up with that dreaded mom look.

For the kid throwing a temper tantrum, I'd say drop your shopping and get them out of the situation.

I find it amazing how rare it is in Asia to see children having tantrums or behaving badly.  I know that if I had taken my children on a 15 hour bus trip, by the 5th hour they would have been totally ratty.  But children here seem to be inured to it and sit quietly, play with Mum's hair (waaay fewer toys!) look out the window, fall asleep etc.  No crying, no whining about "when will we get there" and "she's breathing my air", "she's looking out of my window".  Fascinates me.

I also find myself these days being way more compassionate towards children than when I had little ones.  I remember one time when I was at home and under the hammer.  I had 3 young children, a job, a very large house and a husband to run.  I was trying to hang out the washing and the baby was crying.  My next-door SINGLE female neighbour got annoyed the the crying and screamed over the fence to me "Can't you shut that bloody kid up?".  I was so close to answering "I could if you'd come and do the washing and cook the dinner."  But today - I'd say stuff the washing, let's eat baked beans, and I'd stop and care for the baby.  I see parents downtown being impatient with their children, trying to hurry them along and I really want to say - "Nothing is more important than the time you spend with them, and it disappears too fast."

I wanted to clarify my point of my post. I am not saying all children should be seen and not heard nor am I trying to knock all parents. My point is that I notice more children acting up in a way that I hadn't seen in previous years. To be fair, I also see them in toy store which is not the easiest environment to control a child.

I work with a young girl (about 20) who has a 6 year old son and she was complaining that his teacher called her about him acting up. She knocked the teacher because she said that she wasn't being entertaining enough. I asked her just how entertaining she thought a teacher could make math? She said that the teacher needs to find a way. She said she wasn't even going to talk to son about it.

I watched a little boy beat on his mother. So much so she couldn't even get to her purse to pay because she wouldn't buy him a chocolate. He was about 6 years old and then her called her a bitch.

LE, I have seen Chinese kids throwing temper tantrums.

I find it amazing how rare it is in Asia to see children having tantrums or behaving badly.

LE, do you teach Chinese kids (school age kids)? Im guessing the answer is no. I dont intend to sound mean but you should give it a go. Your opinion of Chinese and asian kids will change radically. I taught kids in China. I had to do a lot of this during the lesson: . After, I definitely did this  and had a few of these  . 

No - I teach at a uni.    This is from observation on long trips around China and other parts of Asia, in buses and trains with little ones. 

One time I was in a mini-van for a really rough 15 hour trip and the 4 year old was better behaved than a couple of the western adults I was with!!  Not a grizzle or whinge out of her the whole time. Sat on dad's or my lap, slept, had a couple of nibblies, sang little songs to herself etc.  My daughters would have been soooooo ratty by then I would have wanted to leave them by the road.

I've only seen one child that I would call badly behaved, and all my Chinese friends blame his mother for not teaching him better - he's 4.

But I figure a classroom is also pretty different from being out in the world, so there could be a difference in context as well.

I think you should even just go watch some kindergarten classes LE, I'm telling in Chinese kiddies can spit the dummy with the best of 'em. 

However, parental punishment is often brutal.  I remember teaching one class with one kid who just didn't want to be there and cracked the shits. The Grandmother couldn't coherce him, I couldn't, Chinese teacher couldn't, so they phoned Baba. Well he stormed into the school, grabbed the kid by one arm lifting him up in the air and kicked him several times like he was booting a football. The kid was 5, all I could do is sit there. THe father had no English and even if he could speak English, he probably still wouldn't have understood my objection. With out a doubt that was the most uncomfortable position I've been in while being a teacher in China. 

Yeah, I agree on the punishment here being way more brutal than back home. We took our 5-yr old son to a kindergarten tae-kwon-doh competition and one of the coaches was hitting her charges around the head and chest when they didn't perform well.

i think a big problem here is the skewed ratio of children to adults - two (sometimes even four) grandparents, two parents, one nanny, all focused on just one little darling - no wonder they are spoilt! All the taitais (grannies) in our compound fuss over our son and tell our nanny to stop him doing things like running, climbing, jumping (things that are perfectly normal and fairly safe for a 2 year old) in case he hurts himself - and when their charges fall over they run to pick them up, whereas my kids have to pick themselves up (of course if they don't we do, but we give them a chance to get up before we get involved). The taitais are also amazed by how advanced, physically, our 2-year old is, and I tell them that he learns from his big brother, something their charges don't. Pretty much every day I have reason to think the one-child policy, while wonderful in terms of economic development, sucks for families.

Yeah, I agree on the punishment here being way more brutal than back home. We took our 5-yr old son to a kindergarten tae-kwon-doh competition and one of the coaches was hitting her charges around the head and chest when they didn't perform well.

i think a big problem here is the skewed ratio of children to adults - two (sometimes even four) grandparents, two parents, one nanny, all focused on just one little darling - no wonder they are spoilt! All the taitais (grannies) in our compound fuss over our son and tell our nanny to stop him doing things like running, climbing, jumping (things that are perfectly normal and fairly safe for a 2 year old) in case he hurts himself - and when their charges fall over they run to pick them up, whereas my kids have to pick themselves up (of course if they don't we do, but we give them a chance to get up before we get involved). The taitais are also amazed by how advanced, physically, our 2-year old is, and I tell them that he learns from his big brother, something their charges don't. Pretty much every day I have reason to think the one-child policy, while wonderful in terms of economic development, sucks for families.

I agree with this. My husband often comments that if we were raising our son back in the village he'd be beaten for doing half the stuff he does (he's one and a half!). I think lots of kids are just plain scared of their parents, and so that's why you don't see them act up so much in their parents' presence. I've seen some parents behave awfully towards their kids, especially when I ran my school. I often felt like I had to defend the kids, the parents were so hard on them "my son is so stupid," or "my daughter is worthless and lazy."

But then again, like you said, you also have the huge fuss made over one child. If I was growing up under so much constant scrutiny I'd lose it, but Chinese kids are used to it I suppose, although I think it makes them, in some way, a bit unprepared for the unexpected, and unable to take risks. I notice that most Chinese kids my son's age are much more reserved than he is, and I wonder if that's because sometimes we just leave him alone and let him find his own fun. I don't freak out if his ankles are exposed to the air, or if he accidentally touches something dirty, and if he falls down, there aren't 12 people who are all going to rush over and pick him up.

So yeah, no wonder they're spoiled. It doesn't surprise me that a lot of the kids act out in school, school, as regimented as it is, probably offers more freedom than home in some cases.

In relation to this I am amazed at how there is a lack of compassion for one another here. I think I mentioned some weeks ago that there was a girl at lunchtime walking up our annoying hill on the campus to the canteen. She had a badly sprained ankle and noone to help her. I walked past her and threw her arm around me and did it myself. She was so shocked and managed to say 'I don't speak English' and I said 'so'? It's really not such a big effort to help each other every now and then, is it?

Though yesterday one of my students fainted in class right after finishing her speech, and everyone rushed to help her, which was nice. But I guess these poor students spend every waking (even sleeping, sharing dorms!) hour joined at the hip, they can't help but feel like 'family'.

But from what I've noticed they are so spoilt they cannot think for themselves. They just do what their parents say, believing that is best for them. E.g many students don't like studying English, only their parents told them to, or the reasoning behind eating a particular food.

In relation to this I am amazed at how there is a lack of compassion for one another here. I think I mentioned some weeks ago that there was a girl at lunchtime walking up our annoying hill on the campus to the canteen. She had a badly sprained ankle and noone to help her.

Remember though, that having compassion and doing something about it are separate things.

It seems as though there are two extremes for some parents. There are some parents who are much too harsh and then there are the ones that don't punish at all.

I've noticed many times pet dogs are also quite well behaved here, not meaning it as kids & dogs are the same, but IMO, strong punishment is a good teaching tool in moderation. 

Without thinking two days ago, I scolded a 4-6 y/old boy on the street as I walked by...
he was kicking a dog the tied up in front of a small fast food place as his parents & prolly the dogs owner watched but not noticing the cluelty... 
 I blurted out `Don't do That! & gave the kid heavy stink eye before I knew what I was doing... he looked up at me surprised
& I looked at the adults looking at me, I gave a questioning gesture & walked on, later thinking I just may have allowed surely the kid & maybe 1or2 adults think... 

I've seen kids here throwing temper tantrums in shops wanting toys or candy & other brat situations...

back when I ran charters, I often watched western kids do things me mon &/or dad would have smacked me for... I've ate 3 bars of soap growing up...
twice I scolded kids on my boat about disrespecting their parents, `Not on My boat! `later apologiving to the parents And they Thanked me for comming down on their sons both times 

In Canada, it is getting almost impossible to physically chastize your children.

A few years ago a man was arrested for spanking his son after his son had slammed a car door on his sister's fingers.  He was charged with child endangerment and child abuse. He unfortunately was an American and had to return to Canada for his trial.

Child services have taken the protection of children to the point they are endangering children because the children can't learn right from wrong.  I am not saying that spanking is good but it didn't kill me and I was always pushing the envelope.  Time-outs can work, verbal chastisement might work or might be interpreted as verbal abuse too.

There are laws on the books, in Ontario for sure, that you can't hit your child.  Even spanking inside your home where nobody can see can get you into trouble.  Teachers routinely ask children to call child welfare if they are hit at home.  Homes are visited by (sometimes newly graduated (young)) social workers and decide if the family should be allowed to keep the children. 

I know here in China, I have had students tell me that their friends have been beaten by their fathers for getting a low mark at school.  To them a 'B' is a low mark. One of my student's fathers wouldn't buy him a computer because he came 9th in his class on a test.  He only got 92% on the test.  He was in Grade 6, (11 yrs old).

Last night my student, she is in Grade 7 now, said she must get a high mark in 'skipping' for PE class.  She must be able to skip xyz times in 1 minute.  I can't remember the exact number.  She said it was about 2.5 jumps per second.  This test is worth 10 marks.  There is another test for another skill in Grade 8 worth 20 marks, and another one in Grade 9.  The total is 60 marks.  The PE marks are added to their scholastic marks to determine what High School she can get into. She explained if she does poorly in PE she must do even better in her academic work.  A student that gets 60 marks in PE and does poorly in academic may beat her to getting into the #1 High School even though he did poorly in all his academic courses.  I suggested she work on her skipping as it was 'short term pain for long term gain', and explained what that expression meant.

Man oh man I am glad I didn't have to go to school here.