English Fever: Is it abating?

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gonzo

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English Fever: Is it abating?
« on: September 08, 2012, 03:31:44 PM »
[I also posted this on another forum]
English is, for many Chinese, unnecessary and annoying. You can't get through the Gao Kao without it, but how many high school graduates have you come across who can actually use the language? Then we have students passing CET4 who can't say much more than "hello??"

They don't want it, they don't need it yet, every year, Jumbo loads of unqualified native [English] speaking teachers [NESTs] are brought in. English majors are the only ones who require NESTs, and those should be appropriately qualified in TESOL; post-graduate qualified that is! And of course, unless they are paid Western salaries, they will be hard to find.

South Korea has already taken the lead here, with NESTs being phased out of schools in Seoul, the biggest market.

So, will the fever soon be over? Will Chinese education authorities wake up to the fact that most NESTs aren't needed, particularly when they generally don't know what they're doing? There's no evidence that NESTs produce graduates with a better standard of English than NNESTs, and the issue of accent is a red herring, especially as the majority of English interchanges that take place world-wide involve non-native English speakers talking to each other, where a bad imitation North American or British accent can only be a distraction!
RIP Phil Stephens.
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Re: English Fever: Is it abating?
« Reply #1 on: September 08, 2012, 04:47:35 PM »
I think the fever is abating somewhat. I've posted this here before, but I think the days when office ladies and bus drivers and engineers sign up for English classes thinking that English will somehow improve their lot in life are numbered. The Olympics have come and gone, and most Chinese still have never had, and will never have, a chance to use the English they've spent so much money trying to learn.

In place of this I think there is an increased focus on specialized English for the people who really need it. I don't think it is really limited to English majors (many of whom end up with jobs which actually don't require much in the way of actual English skills) but also includes people who intend to live, study or work abroad, people with jobs that require English knowledge in specialized fields.

I work in international education and teach SAT and AP classes and the demand for teachers in this sector is huge. Not everyone can teach this stuff, not effectively. Chinese teachers aren't suitable for this kind of workbecause these are Western tests designed for native speakers and the usual Chinese approach of memorizing words and grammar structures doesn't really work. Traditional ESL/EFL teachers aren't always cut out for the job either (a TESOL won't help you teach AP Lit. and Comp or Lang. and Comp). You have to have a fairly specific skillset. Likewise, international schools (those that admit Chinese students as well as those that don't) are on the rise and they always have the need for well trained professional teachers.

Business English will also most likely always have a place, along with other specialized courses. My dad used to teach an English/caregiving class for nannies. Lots of offices like to employ a native speaker for in house editing, technical writing, and cross-cultural communications work. It isn't English teaching, per se, but it is a job that a professional teacher can transition into quite easily.

Of course as long as there is money to be made there will be language mills and I don't see parents giving up on English for their kids anytime soon. But I do think there will be an increased emphasis on quality. This goes especially for the big cities like Beijing and Shanghai where foreigners are a dime a dozen and most consumers know better than to throw their money away on poor quality instruction. They can afford to be picky. The students also aren't fooled by backpacker teachers anymore. They're savvy. This goes for universities too. The Chinese government has also made it clear that China doesn't want to be a dumping ground for what they term "foreign trash." I am sure that in coming years we'll see the government start enforcing laws that have always been there, and probably putting new policies and regulations into place.

While currently there's still a (small) place for the no-degree backpacker types (I sometimes visit the Lonely Planet forums and still see China being touted as a place where you can easily get an English teaching job with no degree), I don't think it'll be long before China goes the way of Korea and Japan and makes it very difficult, if not altogether impossible, for people to get legitimate visa-granting jobs without being properly qualified. 

Re: English Fever: Is it abating?
« Reply #2 on: September 08, 2012, 04:54:28 PM »
I don't think the English fever is abating, but there is a change in the air with regarding to NEST's. Recently, my Uni asked if I knew any FT's who could take a Brit Lit course and stressed the fact that they wanted this FT to be qualified to teach it. When I enquired, they said they did not, as such, care about the FT's nationality, they wanted him/her to be able to teach Lit, that is, have a relevant degree. Maybe it is an overall and, IMHO, much needed change that is happening. Maybe the Chinese are beginning to discoverb that just being a Native Speaker does not mean that you can teach English, nor does a BA in Biology mean you can teach history.
Judging from how English is taught all through the Chinese education system, I can fully understand how the students can be bored with it. Could be that it is not the need for NEST's that is abating, but the simple realization that foreigner does not equal teacher, which is not so good news for the I-want-to-study-Chinese-and-do-travelling-and-teach-a-little FT's that come to China every year. Being a NNEST, I welcome the idea that it is your qualifications, education and desire to be a teacher that matters more than what country you were born in.
"Anyone who lives within their means suffers from a lack of imagination." Oscar Wilde.

"It's all oojah cum spiffy". Bertie Wooster.
"The stars are God's daisy chain" Madeleine Bassett.

Re: English Fever: Is it abating?
« Reply #3 on: September 08, 2012, 06:00:31 PM »
I have some similar experiences to ericthered, I think some places in the public sector are beginning to think about the quality of their staff.  I know that recent directives from the Ministry of Education regarding overseas partnerships and cooperation have stressed the importance of reciprocity and the quality of the programs being developed.

It isn't all about hiring better teachers of course.  In some universities they ringfence unqualified FTs and there is no illusion about the value of their work. 

As someone who has just started studying an MA TESOL by distance, I am quite happy about the direction things are going (in some places).  Now, if only the pay scales would catch up...

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Monkey King

Re: English Fever: Is it abating?
« Reply #4 on: September 08, 2012, 06:28:32 PM »
Like LD says, demand for stuff like A-Levels, foundation year courses, IELTS etc , those routes to study abroad, seems to be increasing if anything.

Apparently, there's a couple of hundred  official applications for foreign-Chinese Uni joint-ventures under consideration at the dept of education at the moment!

Re: English Fever: Is it abating?
« Reply #5 on: September 08, 2012, 06:30:45 PM »
Apparently, there's a couple of hundred  official applications for foreign-Chinese Uni joint-ventures under consideration at the dept of education at the moment!

Good time to get that DELTA certificate then. 

Re: English Fever: Is it abating?
« Reply #6 on: September 08, 2012, 07:44:27 PM »
Apparently, there's a couple of hundred  official applications for foreign-Chinese Uni joint-ventures under consideration at the dept of education at the moment!

yes I've heard this too (perhaps from the same person you heard it from  ahahahahah), so, time to upskill/get qualified people, the jobs are/are going to be out there!

but, like, keep it to yourself right?
两只老外, 两只老外,跑得快,跑得快,
一个是老酒鬼,一个是老色鬼,真奇怪, 真奇怪

Re: English Fever: Is it abating?
« Reply #7 on: September 08, 2012, 07:52:17 PM »
Hm...Might have to get one of those pesky certificates to support the MA diploma...can one take a CELTA/DELTA online?
"Anyone who lives within their means suffers from a lack of imagination." Oscar Wilde.

"It's all oojah cum spiffy". Bertie Wooster.
"The stars are God's daisy chain" Madeleine Bassett.

Re: English Fever: Is it abating?
« Reply #8 on: September 08, 2012, 07:58:14 PM »
Hm...Might have to get one of those pesky certificates to support the MA diploma...can one take a CELTA/DELTA online?


You can do the distance DELTA which is modularised and can be done at your own pace (essays etc can be done fully distance), but will require some 'turning up' to have your classes observed etc. Can be done through British Council Shanghai as far as I know, perhaps you could get observed in BC Hangzhou. All very doable, but not cheap.  kkkkkkkkkk
两只老外, 两只老外,跑得快,跑得快,
一个是老酒鬼,一个是老色鬼,真奇怪, 真奇怪

Re: English Fever: Is it abating?
« Reply #9 on: September 08, 2012, 08:19:56 PM »
...the jobs are/are going to be out there!

Of course, everyone is apparently leaving China right now. 

Just FYI there are distance programs from UK universities which have named PgCert/PgDip exit points.  They may be cheaper than a distance DELTA and get you much the same kind of CV bump.

Re: English Fever: Is it abating?
« Reply #10 on: September 08, 2012, 08:29:31 PM »
...the jobs are/are going to be out there!

Of course, everyone is apparently leaving China right now. 

Just FYI there are distance programs from UK universities which have named PgCert/PgDip exit points.  They may be cheaper than a distance DELTA and get you much the same kind of CV bump.

true enough, however, some employers prefer the DELTA 'brand' as they feel they can rely on the observed classroom portion. Tis very rigorous from what I've heard. Also, don't think DELTA would  be much more expensive (perhaps less?) than distance qualifications...

anyway, for anybody who is interested, here's the info you need

http://thedistancedelta.com/courses/overview.aspx
两只老外, 两只老外,跑得快,跑得快,
一个是老酒鬼,一个是老色鬼,真奇怪, 真奇怪

Re: English Fever: Is it abating?
« Reply #11 on: September 08, 2012, 10:38:18 PM »
Tis very rigorous from what I've heard. Also, don't think DELTA would  be much more expensive (perhaps less?) than distance qualifications...

Ta for the link.  I have seen this before but I didn't like the "Orientation Course" requirement - it adds travel costs in to the mix because I have never seen one being run inside China (including HK).  Maybe I missed it though.  Also, the orientation course might be at an awkward time of year.

The course I am doing is about 4500GBP for the Masters. 

Re: English Fever: Is it abating?
« Reply #12 on: September 09, 2012, 12:54:15 AM »
Like LD says, demand for stuff like A-Levels, foundation year courses, IELTS etc , those routes to study abroad, seems to be increasing if anything.

Apparently, there's a couple of hundred  official applications for foreign-Chinese Uni joint-ventures under consideration at the dept of education at the moment!

I've mentioned this in another thread before as well, but another big difference between now and 5-10 years ago is that when the study abroad crazy first hit, it was largely used as an alternate path for students who couldn't get through the Gaokao or who had hukou problems which made taking the Gaokao difficult.

These days we have a different breed of study-abroaders. We have top students aiming to attend top unis. AP, A-Level and IB courses are in much greater demand. Besides just the language exams, IELTS and TOEFL, students are also sitting the SAT and the ACT. These are all, with the exception of IELTS and TOEFL, courses/exams that are designed for native speakers, so they're not easy. It also follows that they're not easy to teach. Also, having a CELTA or even a DELTA isn't really going to help a whole lot when it comes to teaching SAT Verbal or AP Language and Composition, since these aren't ESL exams.

This is kind of a happy thing for people who have the ability to teach a subject but do not have a state teaching certification required to teach foreign kids in a proper international school. While international schools want to see certs, most Chinese schools would much rather see experience and results. This is a niche a lot of us experienced teachers with a background in some subject area -- history, literature, even science -- can take advantage of.

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kitano

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Re: English Fever: Is it abating?
« Reply #13 on: September 09, 2012, 06:39:55 AM »
If schools could afford it they would obviously get more qualified and skilled people. Unlike Korea or Japan, China is not offering big salaries to most people. I think that not everyone is able to work in the big cities anymore based on my impressions I have to work hard to impress employers now rather than the other way around, but I imagine that if I went to a smaller or poorer city it would be easier.

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gonzo

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Re: English Fever: Is it abating?
« Reply #14 on: September 13, 2012, 03:59:59 PM »
Thanks all. As I said at the beginning, I posted this originally on "another" forum [go on, guess!]. The responses on there have become paranoid and personal, to say the least. Here they remain cheerful and on-topic!
 Says it all, Raoulites. agagagagag
RIP Phil Stephens.
No static at all.