Running a business in China

In the West we might not necessarily jump ship on a good job just because another employer came along offering a slightly higher salary. In fact, we probably aren't even looking for jobs when we're happily employed. Chinese people are almost always looking to trade up on their current job. I read an article about this phenomenon several years ago -- there's a word for it in Chinese, 跳槽 (tiao cao)[...]

That's interesting.  I wonder why the phenomenon exists.  Mt first thought is "job satisfaction" is not something worth believing in when everything else is so unstable.  Land, property, marriage, even the general condition of the country... can any of these things be counted on?  And if they can't, how is "job satisfaction" a valuable commodity?  Plus, no one is taught any especially independent self-evaluation tools, so how is yer average Chinese supposed even to know what "job satisfaction" is?  Of course, there are some who do know and they stand out as achievers, but for everyone else...?

Hmmm, seems a bit superficial as an explanation. 

The article I read (wish I could find it) mentioned that.

But they mentioned also how this generation of Chinese workers has much higher expectations than previous generations. A big part of it is that, much like in the West, young graduates seem to feel entitled to a high salary right off the bat. The problem is that there are really too many college graduates in China and few are willing to put in the time and effort it takes to work their way up to something respectable.

My (foreign) friend works for a company that has Chinese people who are paid 30k rmb a month, but they're senior engineers, they have 30+ years of experience. New graduates come in and have huge expectations even though they're largely untested. When I used to hire Chinese people for the office at my school we'd have brand new graduates wanting to make as much as the foreign teachers and expecting to be able to sit around and chat on QQ all day. Their expectations were totally out of touch with what we were willing to provide and also with what the job required. So of course they left quickly, on to better pastures. Or so they thought.

I think that some Chinese people of this generation are so spoiled that they just don't know what real work is. They expect their employer just to pay them lots of money for being awesome.

That's sort of a superficial explanation as well though. I'm sure there are a lot of factors at play.

I was reading today that in advertising, annual employee turnover in China can be as high as 50% (though more like 20-30%).  The proposed solution seems to be... well, nothing really.  They appear to suggest it is possible to inculcate a sense of creative mission via particular kinds of education.

Potentially this is true.  I think, however, it might be more at home in environments where people believe themselves to have choices.

My former company had a huge turnover rate- some people would only stay 3 months, I would guess about half would stay for around a year. Most of my co-workers seemed to think the ONLY way they could get a raise/get promoted was to change companies. Those fresh graduates making 2000/month were constantly looking for new opportunities. I think a lot of them had a lot of pressure to be successful as many of them were first generation college grads and in order to get married/make their parents proud they would need to be able to make enough money to buy and house and a car.

I actually thought the company was decent- they had a good training program, opportunities to get some great experience, and the work environment wasn't very stressful (ping pong tables/xbox in the break room which always had engineers playing). But they would not offer raises, so at the end of the day that seemed to be the biggest indicator of a job's quality.

Does anyone have experience importing goods into China? We are preparing to make an order abroad and have to arrange for shipping to Beijing. We are hoping to minimize any customs expenses, etc…any suggestions would be greatly appreciated!

Does anyone have experience importing goods into China? We are preparing to make an order abroad and have to arrange for shipping to Beijing. We are hoping to minimize any customs expenses, etc…any suggestions would be greatly appreciated!

I'd like to 2nd that request.  I know tons of experts at exporting from China.  The place that did customs clearance on my household goods into China was supposed to have some skill, but turned out to be utterly clueless about importing anything (much less how to import my personal pile of debris).

China's appetite for imported goods is growing, but I can't find where the import experts are hiding.  Even when I try to check gov't websites about customs fees on certain goods, I get wildly conflicting answers.

So we--me and whoever showed up for class this morning--were tossing around the nature of work today.  They thought 3000 was a reasonable starting salary to aim for.  Also, some ability to have a life outside of work was important.  That seemed to mean that they should work in a "town".  But when we got to the question of loyalty...

It was interesting because they started a conversation in Chinese.  It was near the break and since they were sticking to the topic and working out something important, I let them be the bosses.  Which was the interesting thing: watching them, I saw a management team.  I told them about it later: they were sitting together, contributing information, listening to one another, expressing viewpoints--they were working out a vision, and, if they had taken it that step further, a direction.  So I wondered aloud if this were not a strong foundation for a business.

Long story short, we all know about guanxi, and we've all seen long term, more or less effective relationships formed in classrooms, but when they go out to work, those students go one by one to different companies.  They're loyalty groups are outside their company structures.  What if they were inside somehow?  They didn't quite know what that meant, and nor do I, but.... .

And so on.

I!  Love!  This!  Thread! 

I only have two thoughts to provide here:

1. Trusting Chinese partners:  Understand that their first thoughts will be about the usual practical things:  Secure market?  Solid business plan?  Reliable suppliers?  Adequate liquidity?

The second round:  this is going well.  Now, is there a way to cut the foreigners out?

Consider that.  Is there a way to ensure that they still need you?  Do you have a lock on the end buyer?  If so, cool; if not (and err on the side of pessimism), you could well make other people rich... but be cut out with nothing.

2.  Local workforce:  New grads have little or more likely NO practical skills.  The best skills-to-salary ratio seems to be in the staff who have worked a year or two for either a Chinese, or better yet Taiwanese or Hong Kong Chinese outfit.  They have some skills, knowhow and experience, and are likely sick of the bullshit, dreaming of a foreign outfit that will deal squarely and openly with them.

In this case you can bring them on; show them where the company is and where it wants to go; what future they can expect with you in terms of promotions, role and training; and state openly that you don't expect a lifer, just someone who has good reason to stick around for more than a year.

As for training, consider that speaking English with laowai on a regular basis IS training.  If the guys you find have crappy English, you can always pay a foreign teacher under the table to give a couple of classes each week.  This is significantly cheaper than getting one through a training centre, and you can vet the guy you hire yourself.  English is the single most valued yet difficult skill to acquire in China:  there just aren't enough hooligans like myself to go around.  But you could find one in any one of the local laowai watering holes.

*

Being a hippie teacher with little business background, I'm mystified by the claim that Chinese factories aren't interested in large orders, or in longterm supply contracts.  If you start with small orders, could you build enough trust to gradually ratchet up the size of each order?

Not that I know whether Hudson are worth reading, but they have a Employment and Market Trends page about China.  Just taking a look at the China Employment Trends for Oct-Dec, 2011, in one section they report:

Respondents were asked if they find that Gen Y employees (those aged 30 and under) present specific management challenges. Overall, two-thirds (66%) of respondents say that they experience challenges in managing Gen Y staff. This issue is most significant in the Banking & Financial Services and Media / PR / Advertising sectors, where 76% and 73% respectively give a positive response to this question. Both sectors tend to employ large numbers of young people. Respondents in the Manufacturing & Industrial sector are the least likely to have problems with Gen Y employees: just 60% say this is an issue for them

What are the most Challenging Attributes of the Gen Y'ers? 

Survey says:

unrealistic job expectations (61%)
lack of loyalty (54%)
needing constant attention (48%)
impatience (40%)
lack of respect for authority (18%)

Numbers are the percentage of the 1,700 employers surveyed reporting these difficulties.


This country is SCREWED!

this may be viewed as spam, but i assure you my intention is genuine. I have a regular teaching job. i love living in china. but after now 6 years teaching i wanted to lessen the workload but not the wages.  the teaching job gets my annual visa although its debateable whether my status now means i dont need a job to get an annual renewal. that's beside the point. I wanted to supplement my income. ive played around with fx and commodity trading for years but never had consistent success with it. i was recommended someone who i have been with for a while now and it is good, and im happy to recommend to others to get involved. now i do make an affiliate fee, but im more interested in helping others out to make an income stream which will allow them to cut back on their teaching here but still have a reasonable income to enjoy checking out a china.

ive just read over this and it does indeed read as spam, but if anyone knows me and has read my posts over the years here you will know im not about spamming. anyway, if interested pm me.  And if Raoul feels like deleting this then my apologies if it offends, that is not my intention, i sincerely want to help others.

Amway?